IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2019-11-09
⏴ go to previous day
01:03:06 *** Wormnest__ has joined #openttd
04:07:58 *** supermop_Home has joined #openttd
06:23:25 *** Smedles has joined #openttd
07:55:49 *** D-HUND is now known as debdog
08:45:28 *** Smedles has joined #openttd
09:14:37 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd
09:23:44 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd
09:24:47 *** Smedles has joined #openttd
09:53:36 *** Progman has joined #openttd
10:18:25 *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd
10:50:31 <TrueBrain> why oh why does it seems impossible for me to contact a cloud provider ... none of their sales ever replied to me ..
10:50:55 <TrueBrain> this seems to be an endless loop of being ignored .. I wonder if it is personal
10:51:22 <andythenorth> commodity business innit
10:51:41 <andythenorth> I have a famiily member at rackspace
10:52:10 <TrueBrain> take 2 weeks ago, I called Azure Sales .. they promised a reply within 3 to 5 days .. that was 10 days ago
10:52:21 <TrueBrain> like .. what ... like .. you don't care? what is going on there
10:52:30 <andythenorth> I'm told that Rackspace focus on $1m+ accounts, and try not to get involved with commodity cloud
10:52:38 <andythenorth> not sure about the bigger providers
10:52:49 <andythenorth> the downside of cheap is no service :P
10:52:58 <TrueBrain> yeah ... I am pretty sure a sales person doesn't want to talk to a ~1000 euro a year person
10:53:02 <TrueBrain> waste of their time
10:53:12 <TrueBrain> but the company should force that, as it is really bad for your company if you don't reply at all
10:53:43 <TrueBrain> as that basically means I want nothing to do with you, as a cloud provider :P
10:54:02 <TrueBrain> bored is currently not the state of mind :)
10:54:22 <andythenorth> hungover is mine
10:54:26 <TrueBrain> but I do have a migration that should be done before the end of the year tbfh, and DigitalOcean can't do what we are used to do :P
10:54:38 <TrueBrain> I also need to find a way to have better mail hosting tbh
10:54:45 <TrueBrain> as the spam is really really annoying
10:54:51 <andythenorth> do we need mail? :P
10:55:02 <TrueBrain> at least 1 mailbox for info@, yes
10:55:16 <TrueBrain> I wonder if I can use Exchange Online Plan 1 for that, and just forward all the other addresses
10:55:38 * andythenorth is so out of the loop on email
10:55:49 <TrueBrain> I just know it is expensive as fuck
10:55:56 <TrueBrain> would cost 60 euro a month to host an email for all devs :P
11:19:26 <andythenorth> planetmaker: did you have access to coop donations?
11:19:46 <andythenorth> I thought I had a recurring paypal for sponsoring coop, but no record in paypal :P
11:23:55 <TrueBrain> glx is going to like this: GitHub Actions now support caching :)
12:34:20 *** arikover has joined #openttd
13:22:40 <TrueBrain> make me some too plz
13:23:41 <TrueBrain> I wonder when my Google Stadia ships ..
13:23:52 <TrueBrain> they are not really communicating about that
13:24:30 <TrueBrain> I have to read in the news about launchdates etc
13:25:52 <TrueBrain> order says it should be here before the 25th .. we shall see :)
13:38:23 *** JacobD88 has joined #openttd
13:48:04 *** frosch123 has joined #openttd
13:50:50 <andythenorth> I broke all my newgrfs :)
13:51:00 <andythenorth> and until some PRs move, I'm not writing any more docs :P
13:51:31 <andythenorth> if anyone enjoys 'git describe', I could unbreak my newgrfs with help :P
13:59:06 <frosch123> is the ottd foundation thingie still a thing?
14:02:24 <TrueBrain> the diversity in their team is not very high :P
14:03:46 <TrueBrain> mostly we need a legal entity to battle stores .. like getting on Steam, booting people from Microsoft Store that ask money for this free product, etc :P Not sure they can help with that .. their site is not really .. clear what they do :D
14:04:37 <frosch123> isn't that covered by "asset stewardship"?
14:04:58 <TrueBrain> possibly; like I said, they are not really clear in what they do :D
14:05:02 <TrueBrain> just some vague words
14:05:12 <frosch123> anyway, are we serious enough to ask them?
14:05:37 <TrueBrain> "We are ready for your project if you need help with grants and contracts."
14:05:51 <frosch123> i learned about them from a lightning talk from cccamp, so not much more info there :)
14:06:50 <TrueBrain> I simply can't find enough information to know what it is they really do :)
14:08:03 <TrueBrain> but yeah, ask everyone how we should setup a legal entity of some sorts to both cover our ass, don't tie it to a single individual, and can still do stuff with like Steam, etc.
14:08:53 <TrueBrain> btw, today I asked AWS in their open source activation promotional credits, if we can have some, to seriously look into AWS
14:15:05 <TrueBrain> so they are the legal entity, on which you can piggyback, so to say
14:15:08 <TrueBrain> not sure that would help in our case
14:15:15 <TrueBrain> but droppnig them an email to ask, never hurts I guess?
14:39:33 *** Progman has joined #openttd
16:16:32 <andythenorth> how dangerous are shell commands? :P
16:16:52 <TrueBrain> curl .. | sudo bash -
16:16:54 <TrueBrain> nothing wrong with that
16:17:06 *** supermop_Home has joined #openttd
16:17:28 <andythenorth> I understand 60% of Alberth's code
16:17:44 <andythenorth> I could just write my own git version from scratch, but I worry I do danger
16:17:44 <TrueBrain> holy crap, what does that do?! :o
16:17:58 <andythenorth> and if I port the hg to git with no clue, I could just leave danger or broken
16:18:12 <andythenorth> it gets some rev stuff that the newgrf spec demands
16:18:22 <andythenorth> tbh, I never really understand how grfs are versioned
16:18:25 <TrueBrain> pretty sure nobody can help you approaching this problem from this end
16:18:30 <TrueBrain> possibly better to indicate what you want solved
16:18:34 <TrueBrain> instead of how someone else solved it :P
16:19:00 <andythenorth> probly, for most of what I need git rev-list --count master
16:19:10 <andythenorth> which I can call with subprocess :P
16:19:40 <TrueBrain> so do that already :P
16:19:46 <TrueBrain> you have been on this for what, 4 months now? :P
16:19:59 <andythenorth> I keep avoiding it
16:21:55 <TrueBrain> no no, that is all wrong
16:22:32 <andythenorth> let's hide from this and do docs instead
16:22:40 <andythenorth> why is my README edit awful?
16:23:29 <andythenorth> what's the savegame policy? 100% guarantee?
16:23:52 <TrueBrain> 100% best effort, accepting fixes in PRs :P
16:24:12 <TrueBrain> right, new MasterServer and Updater should work
16:24:19 <TrueBrain> I only need a database, and a webfrontend
16:24:31 <TrueBrain> guess I should make an interface for the database, so I can have an in-memory to test
16:25:30 <andythenorth> hmm that review is outdated
16:25:51 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth updated pull request #7807: Doc: revised README to be more helpful to casual GitHub visitors https://git.io/JeEde
16:28:14 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth updated pull request #7807: Doc: revised README to be more helpful to casual GitHub visitors https://git.io/JeEde
16:29:59 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth updated pull request #7807: Doc: revised README to be more helpful to casual GitHub visitors https://git.io/JeEde
16:30:39 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth commented on pull request #7807: Doc: revised README to be more helpful to casual GitHub visitors https://git.io/JeVKm
16:32:41 <andythenorth> eh, all reviews somehow responded to :P
16:33:05 <andythenorth> ship it, there is minimal future debt in documentation, it's not code
16:33:25 <andythenorth> docs debt tends to carry the cost right now, any improvement is usually a win
16:33:30 <andythenorth> perfection is not essential
16:36:08 <andythenorth> LordAro suspiciously absent
16:36:23 * andythenorth wonders about flooding
16:44:20 *** Wormnest__ has joined #openttd
16:45:20 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc commented on pull request #7807: Doc: revised README to be more helpful to casual GitHub visitors https://git.io/JeVKB
16:51:17 *** Wormnest has joined #openttd
16:53:01 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth updated pull request #7807: Doc: revised README to be more helpful to casual GitHub visitors https://git.io/JeEde
16:53:08 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth commented on pull request #7807: Doc: revised README to be more helpful to casual GitHub visitors https://git.io/JeVKX
17:07:56 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC
17:24:23 <andythenorth> probably done then :P ^
17:31:17 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd
17:44:47 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc approved pull request #7807: Doc: revised README to be more helpful to casual GitHub visitors https://git.io/JeV6D
17:50:31 <LordAro> andythenorth: michi_cc: am in the middle of upgrading my VPS right now, would like to have a read through before merging
17:50:39 <LordAro> andythenorth: no flooding here, just very rainy
18:06:17 *** LordAro has joined #openttd
18:14:41 <Borg> can anyone explain me (basically) how network stuff works here?
18:14:59 <Borg> does server do pathfinding and inform client about result?
18:15:21 <Borg> so if I do pathfinder changes (server side only).. all will still works?
18:19:28 <frosch123> no, the gamestate is update deterministically on all clients
18:19:38 <frosch123> the network only transmit player actions
18:19:52 <frosch123> you can read some more in docs/desyncs.md or similar
18:21:59 <Borg> good bye my more determinstic pathfinder ;(
18:23:27 <LordAro> it's already very deterministic
18:23:28 <Borg> so, for now.. the only way to control penalty.. is to add PBS back signal...
18:23:52 <Borg> LordAro: from with standpoint? state machine? or user? :)
18:24:01 <Borg> first yes.. second. not really
18:24:59 <Borg> I still struggle to understand.. why adding single block signal (oneway) changes the pathfinder behavior...
18:25:08 <Borg> its green.. no penalty.. yet.. trains preffer that path..
18:25:15 <LordAro> Borg: the former. anything that isn't results in a desync (linked above)
18:25:18 <Borg> if I remove it.. path is no longer preffered
18:26:17 <Borg> okey... I think I understand now..
18:26:33 <glx> line "value" changes when you add/remove signals
18:26:48 <Borg> I forgot to calculate whole path path to the desination.. and look_ahead
18:28:33 <Borg> okey... seems I need to give up my pride of not using back PBS signals as path influencers.. they seems to be best
18:28:40 <Borg> and completly no CPU penalty..
18:29:02 <Borg> too bad there is no "dummy" cost sign.. or sth ;)
19:20:27 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC
19:23:36 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd
19:29:09 *** tokai|noir has joined #openttd
19:29:09 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai|noir
20:09:31 *** gelignite has joined #openttd
21:15:03 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/nml] glx22 updated pull request #55: Codechange: use pyinstaller to generate standalone executable https://git.io/JeaNS
21:16:38 <glx> hmm I could also my fix for regression on windows, and call the PR "Windows related stuff"
21:23:43 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/nml] glx22 updated pull request #55: Codechange: use pyinstaller to generate standalone executable https://git.io/JeaNS
21:28:46 <glx> btw not only cx_freeze was not doing what we expected, it also prevented using venv
21:30:01 <glx> with the original setup.py it's impossible to do "pip install -e ." in venv, it always wants to install globally
21:30:38 <glx> without cx_freeze it just works
21:36:57 *** JacobD88 has joined #openttd
21:50:22 <andythenorth> what else needs done before it's merged?
21:50:34 <andythenorth> nml is not savegame critical
21:50:42 <andythenorth> if we broke something, we just fix and release again
21:53:37 <andythenorth> I'll just pull it and test
21:53:48 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/nml] LordAro closed issue #39: (AttributeError) "module 'PIL.Image' has no attribute 'VERSION'". https://git.io/fjEFl
21:54:11 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/nml] LordAro merged pull request #55: Codechange: use pyinstaller to generate standalone executable (and other mostly windows related changes) https://git.io/JeaNS
21:54:20 <LordAro> we can fix it in post
21:54:41 <andythenorth> that phrase was banned on my film shoots LordAro :P
21:54:49 <glx> so it should work you everyone
21:54:53 <andythenorth> also there's no cmd-z undo when you break a camera :P
21:57:24 <andythenorth> pillow fails to build for me
21:57:27 <andythenorth> using python setup.py install
21:57:42 <andythenorth> I don't usually bother with setup.py
21:58:06 <andythenorth> it's zlib missing headers bollocks, might be mac specific, Apple tend to break headers
21:58:47 <andythenorth> pillow builds fine from pip install
22:05:46 <glx> <andythenorth> it's zlib missing headers bollocks, might be mac specific, Apple tend to break headers <-- seems to be local to your machine
22:06:23 <andythenorth> it happens often
22:06:51 <andythenorth> somehow, with whatever magic, pip has the path to the headers
22:06:56 <andythenorth> so pip pillow is fine
22:08:43 <glx> well it's a hidden "setup.py develop"
22:09:22 <glx> and that's magically builds the extension too
22:12:24 <andythenorth> I'm not going to worry about setup.py failing on mac
22:12:36 <andythenorth> there's a solution, and if other people report it...meh
22:13:17 <glx> the action tells me it works on mac anyway
22:15:21 <andythenorth> oh you have a mac Azure build?
22:16:01 <andythenorth> multiple pythons also
22:16:38 <andythenorth> so we just need a docs update (windows binary instructions, update README)
22:17:28 <frosch123> are the artefacts of the azure build actually stored anywhere?
22:17:39 <glx> build standalone, and artifacts are just temporary in this workflow
22:18:09 <glx> the idea would be to write a release workflow
22:18:52 <glx> generating/publishing on pypi
22:19:21 <glx> and building the standalone windows exe and publish in the github tag
22:20:51 <andythenorth> I had azure pushing to S3 bucket for grf
22:20:55 <frosch123> hmm, we never had automatic publish on pypi :)
22:21:01 <andythenorth> we need some generic place to publish artefacts
22:45:19 <LordAro> could just use the github releases page
22:52:40 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/nml] glx22 opened pull request #56: Add: regression workflow for PR and push to master https://git.io/JeVDh
22:56:10 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/nml] matthijskooijman commented on pull request #54: Fix #39: Add compatibility with >=pillow-7.0.0 https://git.io/JeVyv
23:33:08 <TrueBrain> glx: did you see GitHub Actions now support caching? :D
23:33:36 <TrueBrain> means we can finally cache shit like venvs etc :)
23:33:40 <TrueBrain> makes builds so much faster!
23:33:46 <andythenorth> LordAro: README merge? o_O
continue to next day ⏵