IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2019-11-07
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08:31:46 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth commented on issue #7644: Mysteriously poor performance on macOS https://git.io/fjii3
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12:46:34 <Eddi|zuHause> have we tried bisecting the mac slowdowns by putting timing counters everywhere?
12:51:40 <LordAro> we already know it's the graphics rendering
12:57:20 <Eddi|zuHause> but, can we go deeper?
12:58:51 <LordAro> i'm not sure going deeper into cocoa is worthwhile
12:59:00 <LordAro> i thought this was (at least partially) already solved anyway?
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13:23:10 <Eddi|zuHause> also, can we try alternatives like SDL?
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14:07:17 <milek7> couldn't this be some power saving shenanigans?
14:31:20 <andythenorth> it could be app nap yes
14:31:50 <andythenorth> but it's not commonly a cause of performance issues
14:33:10 <Eddi|zuHause> how'd they make that shot of my cat? :p
14:33:25 <andythenorth> is your cat on free stock photo sites?
14:33:37 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause you are outed as a secret mac user :P
14:33:42 <andythenorth> you use macs as a cat bed
14:36:15 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: that "app nap" doesn't seem to apply here, as it's the "active application" by any sane measures
14:36:29 <andythenorth> it's not a plausible cause
14:36:41 <andythenorth> plausible causes
14:36:48 <andythenorth> * something in openttd we're not instrumenting
14:37:01 <andythenorth> * something in the OS / hardware that has insane latency
14:37:46 <Eddi|zuHause> in all likelyhood it's some system ressource that is guarded by a lock
14:38:11 * andythenorth wonders if it gets better without Chrome running
14:38:17 <andythenorth> Chrome on macOS is appalling
14:38:25 <andythenorth> followed closely by Firefox
14:38:33 <andythenorth> Chrome seems to lockup video a lot
14:39:52 <Eddi|zuHause> ... followed closely by OpenTTD? :p
14:40:47 <andythenorth> OpenTTD is not usually a cause of system-wide performance issues, or hard crashes
14:40:49 <andythenorth> unlike Chrome :P
14:42:56 <Eddi|zuHause> why, youtube, if i watched videos ending with #1, #2, #3 and #4, is the next suggestion #8, and #5 is nowhere to be found?
14:58:02 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth commented on issue #7644: Mysteriously poor performance on macOS https://git.io/fjii3
15:01:21 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: well, #5 exists, but it's not listed as a related/suggested video
15:13:59 <andythenorth> I added videos for 1.9.1 and 1.9.3
15:14:13 <andythenorth> some results differ widely
15:15:49 <LordAro> Eddi|zuHause: youtube gonna tube
15:20:11 <milek7> for some reason i thought it died 10 years ago
15:21:46 <Eddi|zuHause> it did, except with clueless mac users :p
15:22:28 <Eddi|zuHause> any sane person uses mkv nowadays. and then there's the fragile mp4 which will die whenever the end of the file gets cut off
15:22:43 <Eddi|zuHause> with 0 chance of recovery
15:22:54 <andythenorth> I used to be able to export from quicktime to many formats
15:22:58 <andythenorth> but Apple nerfed that
15:23:02 <andythenorth> and VLC crashes a lot
15:23:18 <Eddi|zuHause> so if you record a video for 16 hours, and at 15h59 your hdd runs full, you can throw everything away
15:23:45 <andythenorth> it's funny, the production advantage of macs used to lie in the incredibly seamless support for things like video
15:23:49 <andythenorth> with vast flexibility
15:23:55 <andythenorth> and a complete unix and shell
15:24:05 <andythenorth> but they've hit most of that with a nerfbat
15:24:23 <andythenorth> in favour of coffee shop poseurs allegedly
15:24:41 <andythenorth> anyway, the performance videos show nothing useful
15:24:46 <andythenorth> they're highly variable
15:24:54 <andythenorth> and it's very sensitive to which map tiles are showing
15:25:04 <andythenorth> FIRS industries cause it to drop a few fps compared to default
15:25:11 <andythenorth> black tiles seem to aid fps
15:25:34 <andythenorth> I tried 1.10-0 beta, it's getting about twice the fps on ffwd, for no good reason, as I see no relevant code changes
15:26:16 <andythenorth> without more instrumentation, it's basically voodoo :P
15:28:40 <Eddi|zuHause> i can offer a Tuba, if that helps? :p
15:32:06 <andythenorth> could see what else is eating the time there
15:37:52 <andythenorth> oh I can convert those files with VLC if anyone can name the current format du jour :P
15:38:30 <Eddi|zuHause> you need to decide on 2 components: the container format, and the codec
15:38:48 <Eddi|zuHause> (these are mostly orthogonal choices)
15:38:52 <andythenorth> nothing changed since 2001 then :P
15:39:23 <andythenorth> the default choice is h264 mp4
15:39:32 <andythenorth> we'll ignore the audio codec
15:39:51 <andythenorth> you can all open .mov anyway, VLC does it
15:40:17 <Eddi|zuHause> codec is like x264 or x265, or vp9
15:40:26 <Eddi|zuHause> and container is like mp4, mkv, webm
15:42:23 <milek7> not exactly orthogonal, webm is nerfed mkv and only vp8/vp9/av1
15:42:46 <milek7> (yes vlc plays .mov, i was just surprised that it still exists somewhere as default)
15:49:08 <andythenorth> apple continue to make odd choices
16:09:03 <andythenorth> "but will Apple survive?"
16:09:07 <andythenorth> perenial question :P
16:21:24 <milek7> Eddi|zuHause: i just wanted to point out that truncated .mp4 won't play cleanly, but surely it should be possible to extract raw stream and remux it (because why not?..)
16:21:50 <milek7> except that i googled and really recovering that is not trivial ;p
16:22:06 <Eddi|zuHause> milek7: no, because the mp4 container, all relevant muxing information is at the end of the file
16:22:37 <Eddi|zuHause> milek7: without that muxing information, you essentially have only random noise
16:23:24 <milek7> there are tools but they require another valid file produced by same encoder and settings
16:23:50 <Eddi|zuHause> milek7: yes, but even then it might still fail
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19:18:16 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/nml] glx22 opened pull request #55: Codechange: use pyinstaller to generate standalone executable https://git.io/JeaNS
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19:21:56 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/nml] LordAro approved pull request #55: Codechange: use pyinstaller to generate standalone executable https://git.io/JeaNA
19:30:47 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/nml] glx22 commented on pull request #55: Codechange: use pyinstaller to generate standalone executable https://git.io/JeaAm
20:30:45 <andythenorth> "nml is lovely this time of year"
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20:37:46 <LordAro> andythenorth: i love the smell of nml in the morning?
20:38:55 <andythenorth> nml is so bracing
20:39:27 <andythenorth> I should 'adapt' that for nml :P
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21:47:23 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth commented on issue #7644: Mysteriously poor performance on macOS https://git.io/fjii3
21:47:30 <andythenorth> so not many conclusions ^
21:47:42 <andythenorth> but it is a regression, we can't simply blame Apple :x
21:47:46 <andythenorth> well we can, but it's not true :P
21:49:22 * andythenorth should try JGRPP
21:49:28 <andythenorth> apparently doesn't have any mac issues
22:17:25 <LordAro> andythenorth: suspicious
22:17:53 <andythenorth> haven't tested yet
22:18:45 <andythenorth> wonder how often JGR rebases master
22:19:06 <andythenorth> 1.8.0 has different performance issues to 1.9.0 and 1.9.3
22:20:46 <LordAro> andythenorth: 1.8 -> 1.9 could be due to different build server
22:20:51 <LordAro> but you build yourself anyway, so...
22:21:40 <andythenorth> I use the official binaries for official releases
22:22:02 <andythenorth> hmm, so there are many variables
22:22:14 <andythenorth> instrumentation needed :P
22:22:48 <andythenorth> can we build 1.8.0 on the new farm?
22:23:14 <LordAro> in theory yes, in practice ...with quite a lot of effort
22:34:02 <andythenorth> mystery continues :P
22:36:57 <milek7> there are things unaccounted by framerate gui
22:37:30 <milek7> and QZ_CheckPaletteAnim
22:38:04 <andythenorth> I can instrument using the mac tools
22:38:17 <andythenorth> it's quite....hard to interpret for me
22:39:10 <_dp_> andythenorth, you can also try citymania client
22:39:21 <_dp_> though I'd be very surprised if it's any different from vanila
22:43:43 * andythenorth needs faster compiler
22:46:25 <andythenorth> jgrpp perf. is subjectively identical to 1.9.3
22:49:30 <LordAro> well that's something
23:04:30 <andythenorth> they're pretty rough measures
23:04:38 <andythenorth> I don't have a consistent savegame etc
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