IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2019-11-04
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00:07:10 <andythenorth> did you eat any?
00:07:58 <frosch123> i have heard that programmers turn coffee into code
00:08:12 <frosch123> but if peter started eating code lines ...
00:08:30 <andythenorth> I turn coffee into mild anxiety and a need for ant-acid tablets
00:08:49 <andythenorth> but in the morning coffee turns me into 'adequate'
00:12:09 <andythenorth> not quite right, but eh
00:13:08 <supermop_Home> probably not worth the callback hell to blank out cabs when in middle of consist, if consist has DVTs
00:13:50 <andythenorth> using livery thing
00:15:09 <andythenorth> did we do a 3rd company colour yet? :P
00:16:11 <Eddi|zuHause> that image certainly doesn't need it
00:16:36 <supermop_Home> 3rd cc is 'slightly faded version of 1st cc'
00:16:40 <peter1138> I did 32 company colours.
00:17:30 <supermop_Home> i was wondering.... about rendered sprites in 8bpp and 'palletted' but not 32bpp
00:17:36 <Eddi|zuHause> supermop_Home: you can do that with random bits, doesn't need special cc
00:18:08 <andythenorth> the dark grey around the windows in the image...could be 3CC :P
00:18:45 <supermop_Home> like if you could render sprites, but clamp the output to something like the TT palette without it looking bad
00:19:24 <Eddi|zuHause> supermop_Home: there are conversion scripts into 8bpp?
00:20:47 <supermop_Home> one idea i had was that you would let saturation etc vary over the whole range but limit the hues to those in the palette
00:21:50 <supermop_Home> assuming that those colors are the only paints available in TT land, but of course shadows could make them any amount of darker or lighter
00:22:12 <supermop_Home> (maybe only luminance varies and saturation is also limited)
00:23:20 <supermop_Home> basically instead of locomotion where models were rendered them forced to the palette, which made them look dead,
00:23:48 <supermop_Home> you'd have full 32bpp, but only cheerful 8bpp style colors
00:24:12 <Eddi|zuHause> i have no clue what you're saying
00:24:18 <Eddi|zuHause> you either have 32bpp or not.
00:24:31 <Eddi|zuHause> you have no choice in the selection of colours in 8bpp mode
00:24:57 <supermop_Home> if you have 32bpp you don't have to use all those millions of colors
00:25:29 <Eddi|zuHause> yes. but that is your artistic choice and the game has nothing to do with that
00:26:11 <supermop_Home> you could use just a few thousand that are more or less thematic to the original palette
00:26:52 <supermop_Home> this wouldn't be something for the game to do, it would be part of the work flow in modelling / rendering / photoshopping
00:27:46 <supermop_Home> its more of an idea for a set of 'best practices' or methods to achieve a 32bpp look that is not out of place in the game, as many rendered sets are
00:28:25 <Eddi|zuHause> i think you're talking to the wrong audience for that
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00:28:50 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] JGRennison commented on issue #7810: SDL2: IME input problem for non-english language on Linux https://git.io/JeuoP
00:30:47 <supermop_Home> been doing a fair amount of rendering for work lately so it's on my mind
00:32:17 <supermop_Home> is it better to have a house set with 1000 houses, that you have to draw etc, or 250 houses with 4 permutations each
00:33:13 <supermop_Home> would the bigger grf size or the code to randomly combine bits in game be worse
00:41:38 <Eddi|zuHause> better using what metric?
00:45:22 <supermop_Home> game performance
00:46:27 <Eddi|zuHause> i doubt it matters either way
00:47:09 <Eddi|zuHause> if you're not hitting sprite cache limits, or doing crazy animation, you probably don't need to worry
00:51:36 <supermop_Home> it seems like using some sort of combinatorial magic would be a lot faster for the author/artist than drawing 1000s of sprites even if you are reusing a lot elements
00:53:38 <supermop_Home> but for someone like me it might be easier to just slog through in photoshop
00:53:51 <Eddi|zuHause> you can compose sprites from sub-sprites
00:54:38 <Eddi|zuHause> say, you construct a multi-level building from different variations for each level
00:56:42 <Eddi|zuHause> like, you're designing houses for an early industrial european town center, you could make the ground level from variations of shops, varying the number of upper levels, and also varying the roof
00:59:22 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] James103 commented on issue #7816: SDL2: in console, typing _ or + zooms in and out the map https://git.io/JegWa
02:00:44 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 dismissed a review for pull request #7809: Fix #7631: 16 out cargo support for industry directory https://git.io/Je2fx
02:00:44 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 updated pull request #7809: Fix #7631: 16 out cargo support for industry directory https://git.io/JeuaI
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11:44:49 <peter1138> 4 Start_Stop_Count 0x0032 100 100 000 Old_age Always - 39
11:44:57 <peter1138> 9 Power_On_Hours 0x0032 001 001 000 Old_age Always - 95881
11:45:17 <peter1138> So this is one of the drives in my dying server.
11:45:40 <peter1138> Raw_Read_Error_Rate is... 0 on both.
11:45:52 <peter1138> No reallocated sectors.
11:46:12 <peter1138> No pending sectors.
11:46:24 <peter1138> There seems to be nothing wrong with them.
11:46:46 <peter1138> I mean, other than them being 500GB PATA drives :D
11:46:58 <peter1138> I even have a PATA to SATA adapter... but it's the wrong way :(
12:02:56 <dihedral> so where are they failing?
12:03:37 <Eddi|zuHause> this would be the moment where you'd have started making backups years ago?
12:06:59 <peter1138> Well, the machine locked up as one of the disks went to sleep. I wonder if it's the PATA controller on the motherboard.
12:11:19 <_dp_> it's still a function pointer, not a functor
12:19:41 <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: could also be the drive motor failing to start up again
12:20:56 <Eddi|zuHause> _dp_: "inline" is more like a suggestion nowadays anyway, you'd probably need to look at the compiler output
12:25:11 <_dp_> Eddi|zuHause, idk how to check compiler output put it's clearly supposed to be inlined and it's entirely possible, I just don't think it's happening currently
12:26:12 <Eddi|zuHause> there was this website where you can give it small programs and it gives you the output of various compilers, but i forgot the name
12:26:32 <_dp_> if I understand it correcly it should be either made into functor or passed as a template parameter to be inlined
12:41:58 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 commented on pull request #7809: Fix #7631: 16 out cargo support for industry directory https://git.io/Je28R
12:42:21 <Eddi|zuHause> _dp_: that output to me looks like the t1.foo() call is executed, and the other two are inlined
12:43:20 <_dp_> Eddi|zuHause, yeah, and t1 is how it's currently done in openttd, t2 is adding same func to template and t3 is functor
12:44:32 <Eddi|zuHause> _dp_: and is that all c++11?
12:45:22 <_dp_> Eddi|zuHause, should be the same in 11
12:45:28 <_dp_> I just used lambda to make functor
12:53:22 <Eddi|zuHause> _dp_: shouldn't be too hard to rewrite it to the 2nd way?
12:54:25 <_dp_> Eddi|zuHause, it's even easier with 3rd, since template is the same, just need to wrap function in a class
12:55:28 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm not quite sure i understand how the 3rd one works
12:58:03 <_dp_> Eddi|zuHause, since class is a template parameter compiler knows what function to call
12:58:23 <_dp_> and is even smart enough to optimize out that member variable
12:58:53 <_dp_> sizeof(t1), sizeof(t2), sizeof(t3) -> 8, 1, 1
12:59:58 <_dp_> basically, with t1 problem is that you can pass a different function in constructor
13:01:32 <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, i get what the t1 problem is
13:01:58 <Eddi|zuHause> but i don't see how t3 circumvents this
13:02:17 <_dp_> t3 is a very common thing btw, a lot of stl stuff works like that
13:03:53 <Eddi|zuHause> that still doesn't answer my question
13:04:49 <Eddi|zuHause> if i ask "why should i do X" and you answer "well, everybody does X", what do you think i take from the conversation? :p
13:06:08 <_dp_> yeah, I'm just googling a good article about it
13:06:43 <_dp_> I know it explained very well in one of Scott Meyers books but that doesn't seem to be online
13:19:03 <_dp_> didn't find anything good but basically t3 is the same as t2, since it's not virtual and class is a template parameter compiler knows exactly what function to call/inline
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13:25:56 <_dp_> that makes it even simpler
14:32:03 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick updated pull request #7661: Codechange: Rework 'start_date' parameter for AIs as a game setting https://git.io/fjMsZ
15:03:18 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 updated pull request #7809: Fix #7631: 16 out cargo support for industry directory https://git.io/JeuaI
15:53:22 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 updated pull request #7805: Fix #7646: incomplete cleanup for non-threaded world generation failure https://git.io/JeE3o
16:38:10 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/website] LordAro commented on pull request #111: Add: MSVC pdb to file description list https://git.io/Je2uv
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17:39:53 <andythenorth> was lunch discussed?
17:39:57 * andythenorth wasn't paying attention
17:40:22 <Eddi|zuHause> i had something that might pass as lunch
17:42:05 <andythenorth> I had a sandwich, some toast, some crisps, some cookies, some corn snacks, some cheese, and a lot of oranges
17:42:12 <andythenorth> but I don't know if I'd call it lunch
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18:02:43 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/website] TrueBrain commented on pull request #111: Add: MSVC pdb to file description list https://git.io/Je2gQ
18:03:12 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/website] TrueBrain commented on pull request #111: Add: MSVC pdb to file description list https://git.io/Je2g7
18:21:44 <andythenorth> oh it's TrueBrain
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19:29:24 <glx> hmm so I'll try to run the website locally, via docker in my debian VM, because docker on windows feels complicated
19:29:47 <glx> "Microsoft Hyper-V is required to run Docker Desktop. The Docker Desktop Windows installer enables Hyper-V if required, and restarts your machine. When Hyper-V is enabled, VirtualBox no longer works. However, any existing VirtualBox VM images are retained." <-- especially this part of the docs
19:31:20 <TrueBrain> That version only works with Windows 10 Pro btw
19:31:43 <glx> Windows 10 64-bit: Pro, Enterprise, or Education (Build 15063 or later).
19:31:54 <glx> so yes the VM is the way to go
19:32:33 <glx> I also try to install jekyll locally, but I fail at "bundle install" steap
19:33:52 <glx> maybe because I installed ruby 2.6.x
19:34:31 <glx> Could not find gem 'ruby (< 2.6)' <-- seems so
19:35:33 <andythenorth> give me a minute
19:35:52 <glx> same happened when I installed python, I needed to uninstall and use the previous one
19:35:59 <andythenorth> I don't know if that will work
19:36:10 <andythenorth> but if I've learnt one thing, it's the value of repeatable builds
19:36:18 <andythenorth> and not just "I am l33t so I can fix all things"
19:36:36 <andythenorth> that was mac specific
19:36:54 <EobardThawne> whats openttdcoop ?
19:37:16 <andythenorth> glx: ^^ that may be of zero relevance for you, but eh, I tried :D
19:37:51 <andythenorth> Coop is multiplayer servers, plus gameplay tips, plus devzone for newgrfs and other content
19:38:49 <EobardThawne> but its not a different game?
19:41:52 <andythenorth> it's not just python packaging that's fucked
19:42:16 <glx> hmm or maybe it's just powershell
19:43:28 <glx> because "jekyll -v" fails too in powershell, while it works in "cmd"
19:44:16 <glx> ah no, jekyll -v fails in cmd too if ran from website folder
19:44:31 <glx> but it's ok from any other location
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21:08:07 <peter1138> EobardThawne, yeah, it's a group of players who play co-operatively, with the standard game.
21:13:07 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] JGRennison opened pull request #7825: Fix #7783, #7816: SDL2: Fix various issues with keyboard input https://git.io/Je2wr
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22:40:00 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Eric-01 commented on pull request #7809: Fix #7631: 16 out cargo support for industry directory https://git.io/Je2KT
22:54:17 <glx> "I think this shouldn't be hard to implement" <-- if only
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