IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2019-11-03
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00:00:11 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick commented on issue #7670: Road vehicle pathing cache does not always pick up changes in road network https://git.io/fjyVR
00:01:43 <LordAro> Samu: are you sure about that? i didn't think the cache was pathfinding type specific
00:03:52 <Samu> the problem is the combination of line 1381 and 1398 in roadveh_cmd.cpp
00:04:20 <Samu> at 1381 it calls the pathfinder
00:04:46 <Samu> and at 1398 the vehicle finds itself blocked, so there's no update to the vehicle position on the current tick
00:04:51 <Samu> next tick it repeats again
00:05:31 <Samu> constantly doing this until control_block times out
00:06:33 <LordAro> you haven't forgotten where you need to write this stuff, i presume? :)
00:13:14 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick commented on issue #7670: Road vehicle pathing cache does not always pick up changes in road network https://git.io/fjyVR
00:21:35 <Samu> I don't see a good way out for this bug
00:39:41 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc merged pull request #7821: Fix #7820: Heap use after free when removing oil rig https://git.io/Jeg1I
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03:19:07 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 commented on pull request #7809: Fix #7631: replace produced&transported with cargo sprites in industry directory https://git.io/Jeg97
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06:46:26 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Wirdal commented on issue #7592: Road vehicles don't balance between multiple loading bays https://git.io/fjlL0
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08:54:35 <andythenorth> oof, caboose as lead engine of consist
08:54:42 <andythenorth> I tried to add support for that, not wise
09:16:12 <Samu> thinking about the solution for #7670
09:16:53 <Samu> cache could be part of it
09:18:04 <Samu> the first time the pathfinder is called, the cache is empty, so it pathfinds
09:19:27 <Samu> something is cached. Then the vehicle finds itself blocked the current tick and doesn't advance. However, on the next tick, something is cached already
09:19:36 <DorpsGek> andythenorth: pikka was last seen in #openttd 5 days, 20 hours, 7 minutes, and 57 seconds ago: <Pikka> oops
09:19:54 <Samu> but it doesn't pick up the cache
09:20:33 <Samu> maybe the cache isn't prepared to handle the same tile
09:21:41 <Samu> it expects the vehicle to have advanced
09:22:24 <andythenorth> buy menu is ordered by engines (anything with purchase power != 0), then wagons (anything with purchase power = 0)
09:23:06 <andythenorth> engines, powered wagons, wagons
09:23:34 <andythenorth> (powered wagons with cb 36, not the other way)
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09:53:58 <Samu> roadveh cache is complex, it caches tiles where there's intersections, not just any tile
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11:02:36 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth commented on pull request #7809: Fix #7631: replace produced&transported with cargo sprites in industry directory https://git.io/JegFq
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11:47:20 <Samu> I have a fix for 7670, but it's not fully tested, I'm unsure if I make a pr of it
11:47:55 <Samu> actually, the fix involves caching
11:48:11 <Samu> which is a YAPF feature, so it doesn't fix for NPF
12:06:50 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick opened pull request #7822: Fix #7670: Cache the origin tile to prevent recurring calls to the road pathfinder when a vehicle is blocked by another https://git.io/JegbJ
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12:41:59 <Samu> well I'm not on the celeron now, which was where I first found the problem
12:42:23 <Samu> that initial savegame now averages 5 ms for road vehicles
12:43:48 <Samu> on the celeron I reported 135-160 ms
12:46:47 <Samu> estimated 12 ms for the celeron
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13:18:09 * andythenorth wonders if substituting palette animation for frame animation would be faster :P
13:18:47 <andythenorth> it sucks FPS from 32 to 21, in an otherwise bare map
13:19:59 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm not convinced
13:20:54 <Eddi|zuHause> because suddenly you added code paths for checking whether sprites changed, in places that did not need changing before (like ground sprites)
13:22:57 * andythenorth wonders where the palette cycle is applied
13:23:09 <andythenorth> is there one final composed bitmap for the screen?
13:24:52 <frosch123> there is a second bitmap keeping track of animated pixels
13:25:14 <frosch123> which is constantly blitted over the screen (mostly transparent)
13:26:21 <andythenorth> your YT is not like mine
13:28:02 <Eddi|zuHause> this is only like 4 steps away from a channel i recently subscribed to
13:28:59 <Eddi|zuHause> and this channel has songs called "Lala", "Lalala" and "Lalalala"
13:29:48 <Eddi|zuHause> (i would assume there's also a "La", but i haven't seen that one yet)
14:36:40 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 updated pull request #7809: Fix #7631: replace produced&transported with cargo sprites in industry directory https://git.io/JeuaI
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16:22:17 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Eddi-z updated pull request #7000: Some NewGRF variables concerning railtypes https://git.io/fhI7h
16:23:40 <Eddi|zuHause> should i have compiled before pushing?
16:43:46 <Eddi|zuHause> "if (param == 0x88 && (condtype < 0x0B || condtype > 0x0E)) {" <-- looks like this line should have been touched for NRT, but wasn't
16:44:34 <Eddi|zuHause> (not that the situation it wants to catch would appear in any real use case anyway)
16:47:14 <Eddi|zuHause> how do git people edit to branches at the same time?
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16:51:58 <LordAro> Eddi|zuHause: define "at the same time"
16:52:14 <Eddi|zuHause> LordAro: like, having two working copies
16:52:34 <LordAro> either by having two working copies, or just by switching between them :p
16:52:42 <Eddi|zuHause> LordAro: edit a file in master, and not lose your unfinished/uncommited work in a branch
16:53:07 <LordAro> temporary commit in the branch, or ^
16:53:11 <Eddi|zuHause> glx: that would still modify the file on disk, and confuse the open editor
16:53:29 <Eddi|zuHause> so, second clone it is
16:53:42 <LordAro> sounds like you need a better editor :p
16:53:55 <glx> let's try to rebase cmake branch
16:55:39 <Eddi|zuHause> LordAro: the editor would probably be fine, but i would probably lose any unsaved changes
16:56:08 <LordAro> keeping unsaved changes in the editor is always dangerous
16:58:49 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Eddi-z opened pull request #7823: Fix c02ef3e456: Special case of Var 0x88 was not handled for NRT Acti… https://git.io/Je2vL
16:59:53 <Eddi|zuHause> was probably silly to do this, as it will now conflict with #7000, which would silently have fixed this in the next iteration :p
17:03:22 <glx> so nice, conflicts in each cmake commit
17:03:43 <glx> most of them are in deleted files ;)
17:04:23 <glx> ah finally the README.md conflicts
17:05:37 <LordAro> MinGW doesn't configure successfully without SDL2 at all - i have to specify --without-sdl
17:05:57 <LordAro> glx: luckily we haven't merged andy's rewrite yet then :p
17:06:01 <glx> I think I already handle that in cmake
17:06:17 <LordAro> there are a few things handled "already" in cmake
17:06:40 <glx> hmm I have not tested mingw without SDL2 in master
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17:08:24 <glx> oh I need to be careful and apply the cmake readme changes into compiling
17:09:21 <glx> that's the fun with rebasing :)
17:10:20 <andythenorth> stash or commit in the branch
17:10:45 <andythenorth> one trick is using --amend and also not pushing to any CI that will get angry about broken
17:15:30 <Eddi|zuHause> action7 is... weird
17:18:12 <Eddi|zuHause> also, newgrf-specs is missing all NRT stuff
17:20:07 <Eddi|zuHause> i mean, like the new action7 conditions for definedness
17:26:47 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: in NRT action7, what's the difference between condition 0x0F and 0x11, or 0x10/0x12 respectively?
17:26:56 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: they're the exact same code
17:27:16 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: should one of them be Tram?
17:27:53 <andythenorth> not sure, but I'm going to find the PR
17:29:09 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: which src file?
17:30:57 <andythenorth> hmm, seems 4 would be 2 too many
17:31:14 <andythenorth> oh wait, there's valid and not valid checks
17:31:29 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, that's 2...
17:31:34 <Eddi|zuHause> but what are the other 2 for?
17:33:07 <andythenorth> either (a) it's vestigal, maybe it was intended to be TRAMTYPE in the extra 2 or (b) the second two are tramtypes due to some magic or (c) I don't know
17:33:36 <andythenorth> I'm reading more of that file
17:34:05 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: i don't see that being helpful. would be more interesting to track the history of that change
17:34:16 <Eddi|zuHause> from before squashing everything
17:34:26 <andythenorth> well we threw away the history :P
17:34:29 <andythenorth> due to git mistakes
17:34:40 <Eddi|zuHause> that is... problematic
17:35:46 <Samu> Is this good english for a comment? "Randomize all settings the Script requested to be randomized, but when
17:37:03 <andythenorth> blame is crashing in github
17:37:36 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Eddi-z updated pull request #7823: Fix c02ef3e456: Special case of Var 0x88 was not handled for NRT Acti… https://git.io/Je2vL
17:38:13 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Eddi-z commented on pull request #7823: Fix c02ef3e456: Special case of Var 0x88 was not handled for NRT Acti… https://git.io/Je2fu
17:38:54 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Eddi-z updated pull request #7823: Fix c02ef3e456: Special case of Var 0x88 was not handled for NRT Acti… https://git.io/Je2vL
17:39:13 <andythenorth> I think it's vestigal, from ROADTYPE_TRAM being split from ROADTYPE_ROAD, which I think was changed
17:40:48 <Eddi|zuHause> so, remove the two superfluous ones?
17:43:46 <andythenorth> it's a meta game :)
17:44:39 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Eddi-z updated pull request #7823: Fix c02ef3e456: Special case of Var 0x88 was not handled for NRT Acti… https://git.io/Je2vL
17:44:47 <Eddi|zuHause> i'ma reuse that PR
17:45:10 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc approved pull request #7809: Fix #7631: 16 out cargo support for industry directory https://git.io/Je2fx
17:45:10 <Eddi|zuHause> should probably squash or reorder those two commits now
17:45:39 <frosch123> anyway, i think peters idea was to separate road/tram on the spec side, and then not bother/check in the implementation
17:45:49 <andythenorth> ooh 7631 is fixed :)
17:45:50 <frosch123> but no idea, all myths
17:46:17 <LordAro> one would hope that between peter1138, andythenorth & Wolf01, some sort of spec could be produced
17:46:38 <andythenorth> I am kinda writing nml examples slowly
17:46:53 <andythenorth> that kinda...assumes I did the nml patch correctly :P
17:47:56 <frosch123> it's the hyrum's spec
17:48:47 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Eddi-z updated pull request #7000: Some NewGRF variables concerning railtypes https://git.io/fhI7h
17:51:10 <andythenorth> I think of it as an adventure
17:51:49 <andythenorth> shall we do a new station spec next? o_O
17:52:33 <frosch123> sounds political. make a station spec to distract from no-nrt spec?
17:52:43 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Eddi-z commented on pull request #7000: Some NewGRF variables concerning railtypes https://git.io/Je2Jk
17:53:45 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 updated pull request #7270: Introduce CMake (and removing all other project-related code) https://git.io/fhbqc
17:54:01 <glx> works locally, let's see what the CI thinks
17:54:22 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123> anyway, i think peters idea was to separate road/tram on the spec side, and then not bother/check in the implementation <-- ok, this kinda makes sense, in case we want to completely reimplement it later (as if that would ever happen)
17:54:37 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: noone knows :)
17:56:41 <frosch123> if there are no checks, hyrum's law will result in grfs using the spec incorrectly
17:56:47 <frosch123> though since there is no spec, all bets are off
17:58:16 <Eddi|zuHause> "error: cannot initialize a variable of type 'RailType' with an rvalue of type 'uint8' (aka 'unsigned char')" <-- i must have failed with some assumption here that GetReverseRailtypeTranslation would return a RailType...
17:59:07 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Eddi-z updated pull request #7000: Some NewGRF variables concerning railtypes https://git.io/fhI7h
18:00:02 <Eddi|zuHause> this whole "switch (condtype)" could use some commenting
18:01:45 <Eddi|zuHause> also note that this whole code is completely untested
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18:10:46 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick updated pull request #7486: Fix: AI/GS settings with the flag SCRIPTCONFIG_RANDOM could be altered after loading from a savegame. https://git.io/fjtsp
18:12:21 <Eddi|zuHause> "result = !!(param_val & (1 << cond_val));" <-- this looks really odd :/
18:12:27 <andythenorth> oof I found a bug in Horse :(
18:12:37 <andythenorth> cases that weren't being exposed, and now are
18:12:40 <Eddi|zuHause> Is it a Horsefly?
18:12:52 <andythenorth> Horse is such a nest of spaghetti
18:13:12 <andythenorth> the nml compile part is fine, and the graphics renderer is fine
18:13:18 <andythenorth> but the bits that connect those two are horrible
18:13:56 <Eddi|zuHause> fun fact: the german translation of "Horsefly" is "Bremse" [Brake]
18:17:24 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: not without asking
18:17:47 <Eddi|zuHause> and only the first one
18:17:48 <andythenorth> I rephrase, should I ask if we can use them as screenshots
18:17:49 <frosch123> screenshots without infrastructure?
18:20:37 <frosch123> ah, the famous palace in altdorf
18:22:41 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: so, this is now the place where we would develop test cases for #7000
18:24:00 <Eddi|zuHause> it's probably "done", except for removing the hacky var3F stuff
18:24:19 <Eddi|zuHause> and potentially adding NRT versions of the other stuff
18:32:37 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: why do you use GetReverseRailTypeTranslation?
18:33:08 <frosch123> that will only return something if the grf knows the railtype, which defeats the entire point?
18:33:51 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: how would a grf ask about a railtype it doesn't know?
18:35:00 <frosch123> wasn't the idea that a railtype grf could define E1, E2, E3, E4, and the train grf can still figure out whether ELRL or 3RDR is available?
18:35:51 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: the idea is to throw two RTT entries at it (which might have been subject to Action6-style fallback replacement earlier in the GRF, if you're thinking in NML terms), and test whether those are actually the same thing
18:36:25 <frosch123> yes, but your patch doesn't do that
18:37:00 <frosch123> or rather, it only does that if the grf also knows the railtype the other two are mapped to
18:38:24 <Eddi|zuHause> that might be a corner case i have missed
18:44:59 <frosch123> i think you want to compare the results of GetRailTypeByLabel(_cur.grffile->railtype_list[param1/2])
18:48:04 <frosch123> looks like railtype_map is only relevant to the railtype grf, so the general case should use railtype_list
18:48:23 <frosch123> though all other a7 checks use the label directly
18:48:46 <frosch123> not sure whether there is a good reason for that, or whether it predates the cargo translation table :p
18:50:39 <Eddi|zuHause> ok, let's try that...
18:51:06 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Eddi-z updated pull request #7000: Some NewGRF variables concerning railtypes https://git.io/fhI7h
18:52:34 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Eddi-z updated pull request #7000: Some NewGRF variables concerning railtypes https://git.io/fhI7h
21:15:54 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick opened pull request #7824: Fix #7697: Add a Missing AddProducedCargo proc for HQ https://git.io/Je2I2
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22:04:41 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nikolas commented on issue #7810: SDL2: IME input problem for non-english language on Linux https://git.io/JeuoP
22:20:03 <Eddi|zuHause> we should probably rescale the radius of some of these
22:22:15 <andythenorth> quite interesting
22:22:15 <_dp_> not without an option at least
22:22:41 <andythenorth> grid is all wrong though eh :)
22:23:11 <_dp_> andythenorth, what grid?
22:27:10 <Eddi|zuHause> _dp_: the innermost town zone tends to get too big too quickly, and the other ones have this very narrow band instead of forming proper areas
22:28:16 <Eddi|zuHause> besides, i'm not too fond of the concentric circles anyway
22:29:34 <Eddi|zuHause> _dp_: what would the option do and which target audience wants to meddle with that option anyway, besides the "everything must stay as it was in 1996" crowd?
22:31:36 <frosch123> yay, finally some tile highlighting that doesn't make the whole viewport busy as in dwarf fortress
22:32:52 <andythenorth> ooh we could do ASCII overlays? o_O
22:33:10 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: I wondered about grid varying by town zone :P
22:33:15 <andythenorth> but then...town zone moves
22:33:42 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: that's horrible, because grids don't care about existing roads
22:38:25 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro approved pull request #7823: Fix c02ef3e456: Special case of Var 0x88 was not handled for NRT Acti… https://git.io/Je2ts
22:39:36 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro approved pull request #7824: Fix #7697: Add a Missing AddProducedCargo proc for HQ https://git.io/Je2tZ
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22:42:22 <_dp_> Eddi|zuHause, citybuilders are designed to work with a current town mechacnics
22:42:45 <_dp_> Eddi|zuHause, any abrupt change can throw off gameplay there and void years worth of scores history
22:42:58 <Eddi|zuHause> _dp_: how is that an argument?
22:45:08 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro requested changes for pull request #7809: Fix #7631: 16 out cargo support for industry directory https://git.io/Je2tl
22:46:03 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro approved pull request #7808: Removal of SVN ID line as it is not needed. https://git.io/Je2t0
22:48:18 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on pull request #7805: Fix #7646: incomplete cleanup for non-threaded world generation failure https://git.io/Je2tu
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22:49:17 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on pull request #7782: Codechange: Improve NetworkAddress usage https://git.io/Je2tg
22:53:05 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] frosch123 requested changes for pull request #7823: Fix c02ef3e456: Special case of Var 0x88 was not handled for NRT Acti… https://git.io/Je2tr
22:53:36 <frosch123> at some point someone needs to define what nrt should do
22:53:47 <frosch123> randomly changing stuff makes it even worse as it already is
22:54:00 <LordAro> frosch123: this is why i don't always merge stuff automatically, thanks :)
22:54:06 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Eddi-z commented on pull request #7823: Fix c02ef3e456: Special case of Var 0x88 was not handled for NRT Acti… https://git.io/Je2t6
22:54:54 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: we can leave out the second change for now, and probably forget about it. but the first change is definitely valid
22:55:08 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro requested changes for pull request #7000: Some NewGRF variables concerning railtypes https://git.io/Je2tX
22:55:31 <frosch123> yes, though i wonder whether the if cases can be reordered somehow
22:57:52 <frosch123> but i see no clever way without changing the behaviour
22:58:57 <frosch123> also, how do i stop gh from always wanting secondary authentification?
22:59:05 <frosch123> do i need to disable some ff privacy stuff?
22:59:25 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Eddi-z commented on pull request #7000: Some NewGRF variables concerning railtypes https://git.io/Je2tH
23:00:41 <Eddi|zuHause> i've had to insert some random email code every now and then
23:00:51 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on pull request #7000: Some NewGRF variables concerning railtypes https://git.io/Je2td
23:00:54 <frosch123> but everytime i login, gh sends a email with a verification code
23:01:06 <frosch123> so i always have to wait 10 seconds until the email arrives or so
23:01:08 <LordAro> sounds like you've ticked a box somewhere
23:01:29 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Eddi-z commented on pull request #7000: Some NewGRF variables concerning railtypes https://git.io/Je2tb
23:02:02 <Eddi|zuHause> LordAro: i definitely didn't tick any box, it just sort of happened at some point
23:02:37 <LordAro> perhaps a default has changed somewhere
23:04:08 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Eddi-z updated pull request #7000: Some NewGRF variables concerning railtypes https://git.io/fhI7h
23:05:57 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Eddi-z updated pull request #7000: Some NewGRF variables concerning railtypes https://git.io/fhI7h
23:06:53 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Eddi-z commented on pull request #7000: Some NewGRF variables concerning railtypes https://git.io/Je2qe
23:07:17 <frosch123> oh, gh has "saved replies"
23:07:28 <frosch123> useful for rejecting feature requests :)
23:08:46 <andythenorth> my intent for NRT is to grind through the docs sometime
23:08:52 <Eddi|zuHause> i really wish it would be easier to see the actual CI failure, instead of digging 3 levels deep
23:09:02 <supermop_Home> years of scores history?
23:09:16 <LordAro> Eddi|zuHause: GH Actions Soonᵀᴹ
23:09:47 <frosch123> how popular do you need to be to make gh's "available for hire" flag useful?
23:10:02 <LordAro> that thought did cross my mind
23:10:15 <andythenorth> don't most engineers have far more job offers than they want?
23:10:51 <frosch123> depends how picky you are
23:11:11 * peter1138 is copying files from his server, finally.
23:11:33 <andythenorth> I see these weird SO or hackernews posts, with engineers who say things like 'my job sucks, but I can't get another'
23:11:37 <andythenorth> which makes no sense :P
23:12:14 <frosch123> if you want to apply worldwide, you can use the job offers on reddit/cpp
23:12:51 <frosch123> though i am not sure the people posting there are aware of that
23:13:25 <andythenorth> also in the link above, the 10hp looks weird :P
23:13:48 <supermop_Home> happy to have it
23:14:03 <frosch123> andythenorth: line spacing too small?
23:16:26 <supermop_Home> can you make a apt-ish train with dvts on both ends and engine in the center?
23:17:41 <andythenorth> frosch123: more that it's weird having to set power :)
23:17:48 <andythenorth> but that's the way we get an engine, so eh
23:18:01 <andythenorth> snowploughs will also get power :P
23:18:17 <andythenorth> I did try some tricks with a hidden railtype and cb36, but it didn't work
23:19:50 <frosch123> oi, i wonder whether i had grasped that if i were more awake :)
23:20:08 <supermop_Home> cabbage in NA horse?
23:20:44 <andythenorth> supermop_Home: yes, this is prep for that
23:20:59 <andythenorth> and snowploughs :P
23:21:05 <andythenorth> snowploughs are so pointless :)
23:24:08 <andythenorth> oh there are snowblowers too :P
23:25:06 <supermop_Home> you have them in the uk?
23:28:35 <supermop_Home> ah yes. the south east of england
23:28:48 <supermop_Home> famous for snowbound railways
23:30:17 <Eddi|zuHause> the rarer snow is, the more catastrophic it tends to be when it actually happens
23:34:11 <supermop_Home> Eddi|zuHause: Atlanta is famously paralyzed everytime they get flurries that barely even stick to the ground...
23:34:42 <milek7> what does it have to do with.. coffee?
23:35:11 <Eddi|zuHause> supermop_Home: when i was young, they said that about rome. nowadays this same problem occurs to our cities
23:36:24 <Eddi|zuHause> supermop_Home: and i live more northern than most canadians.
23:37:16 <supermop_Home> the coffee scale i need regardless of snowfall
23:37:23 <Eddi|zuHause> and i believe it's also more northern than london
23:37:36 <supermop_Home> why the universe has conspired to make it so expensive i don't know
23:40:25 <Eddi|zuHause> ok, London is pretty much the same latitude
23:40:44 <Eddi|zuHause> supermop_Home: it's called capitalism
23:41:58 <Eddi|zuHause> supermop_Home: it's a thing that was invented outside the USA, and like everything else, the USA imported it and brought it to such extremes that it's become unhealthy.
23:46:17 <andythenorth> capitalism is somewhat Dutch
23:47:04 <andythenorth> the shareholder part was somewhat co-operative, it was to support purchasing of windmills by communities, to drain land that had too much peat extracted and was below sea level
23:47:33 <andythenorth> transactions via paper and accounting was also somewhat dutch, but also hanseatic league
23:47:47 <andythenorth> at least, according to a couple of books I read :P
23:48:48 <supermop_Home> damn hanseatic league screws me over once again
23:50:06 <andythenorth> ouch, once again, a whole day to write 14 lines of code
23:50:12 <andythenorth> but they are the correct lines :P
23:50:42 <andythenorth> and they are fewer than the old non-working lines
23:58:45 <peter1138> I had a whole day to eat food.
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