IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2019-11-02
⏴ go to previous day
00:15:22 *** Smedles has joined #openttd
00:21:03 *** Smedles has joined #openttd
00:25:43 *** Smedles has joined #openttd
00:30:55 *** Smedles has joined #openttd
00:51:48 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nikolas opened issue #7816: SDL2: in console, typing _ or + zooms in and out the map https://git.io/JegWa
01:04:48 *** Smedles has joined #openttd
01:31:16 *** Smedles has joined #openttd
01:40:11 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai
01:58:17 <nnyby> is there a setting to prevent the finances window from popping up every year?
02:00:46 <glx> usually when something is annoying there's a setting :)
02:39:26 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai
02:40:13 *** Smedles has joined #openttd
02:52:23 *** Smedles has joined #openttd
03:04:07 *** Smedles has joined #openttd
03:55:36 *** Smedles has joined #openttd
04:27:10 *** Smedles has joined #openttd
04:42:55 *** Smedles has joined #openttd
04:51:49 *** Smedles has joined #openttd
05:08:16 *** Smedles has joined #openttd
05:14:58 *** Smedles has joined #openttd
05:24:26 *** supermop_Home_ has joined #openttd
05:36:13 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC
05:58:10 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] James103 commented on pull request #7791: GS method to control engine availability for a specific company https://git.io/JegBD
06:00:22 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd
06:05:33 *** Smedles_ has joined #openttd
06:21:13 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC
06:21:43 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd
06:23:23 *** Smedles has joined #openttd
06:33:55 *** Smedles has joined #openttd
06:59:47 *** Smedles has joined #openttd
07:07:11 *** Smedles has joined #openttd
07:12:51 *** Smedles has joined #openttd
07:20:03 *** Smedles has joined #openttd
07:32:14 *** Smedles has joined #openttd
07:37:25 *** Smedles has joined #openttd
07:44:36 *** Smedles has joined #openttd
07:53:12 *** tokai|noir has joined #openttd
07:53:12 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai|noir
08:00:47 *** Smedles has joined #openttd
08:29:41 *** Smedles has joined #openttd
08:36:32 *** Smedles has joined #openttd
08:52:17 *** Smedles has joined #openttd
09:06:17 *** Smedles has joined #openttd
09:12:15 *** Smedles has joined #openttd
09:12:46 *** D-HUND is now known as debdog
09:16:10 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd
09:16:24 *** Smedles_ has joined #openttd
09:18:02 *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd
09:23:06 *** Progman has joined #openttd
09:35:12 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd
09:46:41 <andythenorth> more bridges then?
09:46:56 <andythenorth> we only have 13 x 4?
09:53:50 * andythenorth was reading suggestions forum :P
09:57:30 <TrueBrain> bad andythenorth, bad bad bad andythenorth :P
10:16:15 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/DorpsGek] TrueBrain updated pull request #10: Scheduled monthly dependency update for November https://git.io/Jeg36
10:20:13 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/DorpsGek] TrueBrain merged pull request #10: Scheduled monthly dependency update for November https://git.io/Jeg36
10:23:23 <andythenorth> did anyone rewrite the README recently? o_O
10:23:28 <andythenorth> I remember it was wanted
10:39:01 <LordAro> andythenorth: i don't recall
10:42:03 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai
10:44:33 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] ldpl commented on pull request #7791: GS method to control engine availability for a specific company https://git.io/JegEj
11:03:59 <Eddi|zuHause> technically we can go to 1.15 without any trouble, then it'll conflict with newgrf version reporting
11:42:51 <LordAro> 2.0 is where we just make JGRPP the mainline version ~ andythenorth, probably
11:45:19 <andythenorth> what shall we do today?
11:45:31 <andythenorth> all my newgrfs are....stopped :P
11:45:53 <andythenorth> and I have run out of YT videos to watch
11:46:28 <andythenorth> got some kind of virus, tanks is lolz
11:46:36 <andythenorth> my eyes aren't working right
11:46:51 <LordAro> maybe you should go lie down then :p
11:46:56 * LordAro isn't feeling great today either
11:47:25 <andythenorth> I had a 2 hour unwanted nap in the office yesterday
11:52:48 *** frosch123 has joined #openttd
12:16:41 <andythenorth> but it extends towards something we do want afaik
12:17:17 <andythenorth> failing automated checks :P
12:20:02 <LordAro> andythenorth: nothing we can do about it while it's a draft PR
12:21:17 <andythenorth> nice number btw :P
12:21:59 <Eddi|zuHause> andy: it both lacks some momentum and outside input
12:23:11 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: if you simply need working test cases in grf, I could extend the examples in nml (in a branch)
12:23:38 <andythenorth> it's not trivial work, but it would be the most beneficial way to provide test vehicles in grf
12:23:53 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: mostly it needs someone answering the questions in the last post
12:24:08 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: a good test case would be a bonus
12:25:48 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro dismissed a review for pull request #7104: Fix #5405: Aircraft could route to depots outside their range https://git.io/fjwSe
12:26:06 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro merged pull request #7104: Fix #5405: Aircraft could route to depots outside their range https://git.io/fhKsL
12:26:31 * andythenorth bit worried about samu, but eh
12:26:38 <DorpsGek> LordAro: samu was last seen in #openttd 2 weeks, 5 days, 14 hours, 40 minutes, and 51 seconds ago: <Samu> it's just too much work
12:26:39 <andythenorth> sounds like a rough life, and now he's absent
12:27:08 <andythenorth> we should help Eddi|zuHause finish the town grid
12:27:15 <andythenorth> I can't wait the standard 7 years for an eddi patch :P
12:27:28 <andythenorth> it's so much improved
12:28:06 <Eddi|zuHause> 2 main things need improvement there: 1) the settings need some explanation, and b) the gui in scenario editor needs reworking
12:32:30 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: so are the parallel road settings orthogonal to town grid setting?
12:33:53 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: one sets the shape, the other sets the size
12:34:06 <andythenorth> in SE I can't get a 3x3 town at all
12:34:12 <andythenorth> "Can't found town here"
12:34:21 <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, the buttons don't work
12:34:22 <andythenorth> tried various (but not all) combinations of grid setting
12:34:35 <andythenorth> Original, better, and 2x2 seem to work
12:34:53 <Eddi|zuHause> the buttons don't do what their label says anymore
12:35:23 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on pull request #7745: Feature: setting for more flexible town spacing https://git.io/JeggT
12:35:41 <andythenorth> unrelated, I can largest distance < smallest distance
12:36:25 <andythenorth> is that correct?
12:36:46 <Eddi|zuHause> there should be a guard for that, probably
12:37:16 <andythenorth> it's an interesting minor UI challenge :)
12:37:21 <andythenorth> connecting 2 controls :P
12:37:46 <andythenorth> so in SE, should the road spacing be present on the 'Town generation' window?
12:41:54 <andythenorth> is max spacing of 6 an arbitrary choice, or due to some other constraint?
12:41:57 * andythenorth is trying with 10 :P
12:46:07 <Eddi|zuHause> limits are completely arbitrary
12:46:34 <Eddi|zuHause> however, with natural roads, you should go a bit lower, with grids you can go a bit higher
12:46:42 <andythenorth> get some very interesting towns with 10, and grids
12:47:00 <andythenorth> the natural ones tend to linear above 6, which is also interesting
12:47:05 <Eddi|zuHause> natural with 5 or 6 would be close to grid with 10
12:48:11 <Eddi|zuHause> and grid with 1 probably is very awkward
12:48:51 * andythenorth tries max 12 with grids
12:49:49 <Eddi|zuHause> anyway, the rapid spread of the two sequences with higher numbers makes it a bit tricky when using random networks
12:49:50 <andythenorth> above 6 the grid towns do look odd, because the centre is high-rise, then green space
12:50:07 <andythenorth> but the space it provides for building transport infrastructure is of benefit
12:50:16 <andythenorth> if only we had roadtypes :P
12:50:31 <andythenorth> we could do a large aerterial grid
12:50:34 <andythenorth> and a small local grid
12:50:50 <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, but that involves some complete rework
12:50:55 <andythenorth> we could apply different rules to deleting the local roads
12:51:20 <andythenorth> yes it would be a rework, and the approach in your PR is already high yield
12:51:23 <andythenorth> rework is not needed
12:52:15 <andythenorth> hmm high grid numbers produce some accidental swastiks
12:53:56 <andythenorth> well it's fine, it's just a hindu symbol
12:54:01 <andythenorth> but reddit will make something of it :P
12:54:57 <andythenorth> the Migrations GS does an interesting thing, it builds roads from towns to nearby industries
12:55:23 <andythenorth> which somewhat blocks them for train routes, but gives a somewhat natural appearance to the town
12:55:37 <andythenorth> it's on bananas if anyone wants to try it :P
12:57:46 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: there's no way we can include code to prevent that shape...
13:06:02 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth commented on pull request #7745: Feature: setting for more flexible town spacing https://git.io/JeggS
13:09:02 <andythenorth> ^ attached some pictures :)
13:12:32 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Eddi-z commented on pull request #7745: Feature: setting for more flexible town spacing https://git.io/Jeggh
13:13:43 <andythenorth> hmm, for grids, the optimum is either small or large
13:13:55 <andythenorth> 4-8 doesn't give room to build infra in the gaps
13:14:31 <Eddi|zuHause> that probably is highly specific to your play style
13:15:13 <andythenorth> how small is the smallest airport :P
13:16:03 <Eddi|zuHause> the next larger 4x5
13:16:44 <andythenorth> every grid block gets an airport :)
13:18:24 * andythenorth tries MAX_TOWN_SPACING 16
13:18:39 <andythenorth> we need a GS that plants parks in the gaps :P
13:18:50 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] frosch123 commented on pull request #7000: Some NewGRF variables concerning railtypes https://git.io/Jeg2U
13:21:59 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] frosch123 commented on pull request #7000: Some NewGRF variables concerning railtypes https://git.io/Jeg2k
13:30:47 *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd
13:37:11 <LordAro> ah crap, the samu PR added a compile warning
13:38:18 <LordAro> not an invalid one either
13:41:42 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro opened pull request #7818: Fix ccb4c37: Use of possibly unitialised pointer https://git.io/Jeg2a
13:55:57 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] frosch123 approved pull request #7818: Fix ccb4c37: Use of possibly unitialised pointer https://git.io/Jeg2y
13:56:51 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro opened pull request #7819: Fix #7606: Game crash when trying to clean up a crashed script https://git.io/Jeg29
13:58:19 <frosch123> are we already in unique_ptr land?
14:10:27 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth commented on pull request #7628: Fix #7625: Road infrastructure cost is correctly updated when upgrading your own roads. https://git.io/Jegav
14:11:25 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth commented on pull request #7503: Feature: Add aircraft type dropdown in Autoreplace window https://git.io/Jegaf
14:12:17 <LordAro> i'm pretty sure #7628 can be trivially fixed (i spoke to the guy, he said he didn't care enough to do anything with the PR)
14:13:23 <andythenorth> I am not finding many that can be obviously closed
14:13:52 <andythenorth> I worry a bit when I see potential new contributors asking for reviews and getting crickets :)
14:14:04 <andythenorth> I guess we don't get more competent reviewers without more contributors
14:16:43 <andythenorth> I need a filter that is "not core developer" :P
14:16:47 <andythenorth> dunno if GH has that
14:17:45 <andythenorth> 'new contrub' label :P
14:17:58 <andythenorth> but it might set up wrong expectation :)
14:19:33 <andythenorth> I'm just finding them
14:19:49 <andythenorth> there's probably a couple of others
14:19:58 <andythenorth> my method is not foolproof :P
14:21:01 <LordAro> i tried a search thing
14:21:39 <andythenorth> oh your forum sig quote is interesting LordAro
14:21:41 <andythenorth> "It is practically impossible to teach good programming to students that have had a prior exposure to BASIC: as potential programmers they are mentally mutilated beyond hope of regeneration. --Edsger Dijkstra"
14:22:00 <LordAro> Dijkstra had a few like that
14:22:08 <andythenorth> I started with BASIC when I was about 5, and I never did become a programmer
14:22:41 <andythenorth> oh he's Dutch I see
14:22:50 <andythenorth> racial stereotype continues :P
14:23:00 <Eddi|zuHause> the spelling of the name kinda gives that away, i thought?
14:23:33 <andythenorth> never considered it :)
14:23:41 <Eddi|zuHause> not many languages have this "ij" think going on
14:24:25 <Eddi|zuHause> somehow my typing is confusing g/k and d/t a lot lately
14:24:41 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro merged pull request #7818: Fix ccb4c37: Use of possibly unitialised pointer https://git.io/Jeg2a
14:31:05 <andythenorth> hmm there might be a couple of other new contribs, but I think my list above is not bad
14:33:48 <andythenorth> not sure about code
14:33:58 * _dp_ started with basic as well...
14:34:12 <andythenorth> the inital screenshot on 7800 is misleading ^^ it's a group window improvement
14:34:12 <_dp_> though I did figure it's garbage by the time I was 12
14:34:43 <andythenorth> if someone had taught me bytecode at the age of 10 I might have got somewhere
14:35:12 <andythenorth> but it was a weird time, where programming was taught, but using BASIC and LOGO
14:35:27 <andythenorth> and any further debate was via a computer magazine
14:35:45 <andythenorth> and revolved around basic vs. pascal vs. cobol
14:36:03 * andythenorth worries about all the kids being taught sketch now
14:36:25 <Eddi|zuHause> i dabbled in basic a bit, but wasn't the first language, and i moved on to pascal quickly
14:36:50 <Eddi|zuHause> the problem dijkstra had with basic was not the language itself, but the culture around it
14:37:07 <Eddi|zuHause> particularly the programming styles it encouraged
14:38:29 <Eddi|zuHause> so what that quote means is: "once someone has learned the wrong technique, it's nearly impossible to get it out again"
14:40:32 <_dp_> btw, I don't think TheDude counts as a new contrib :p
14:43:32 <Eddi|zuHause> btw, this problem of learning stuff the wrong way is occuring today a lot in the way children are taught writing. in the past decades some teaching methods leaned towards "let them just figure out stuff by themselves, and don't force the kids into anything", which leads to horrible results by the time it actually matters whether they can spell, and then it's too late to correct
14:58:02 <andythenorth> my kids are just taught how to spell
14:58:10 <andythenorth> seems to mostly work :P
15:27:47 *** tokai|noir has joined #openttd
15:27:47 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai|noir
15:34:29 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC
15:36:11 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd
15:42:46 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd
16:36:33 *** amal[m] has joined #openttd
16:38:00 *** Wormnest_ has joined #openttd
16:39:27 *** gelignite has joined #openttd
16:50:00 *** Wormnest has joined #openttd
16:58:10 *** andythenorth is now known as Guest6891
17:01:45 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd
17:12:39 <andythenorth> I moved all my newgrfs to github :)
17:12:53 <andythenorth> and now they're unreleasable, as they depend on hg for version numbers
17:13:21 <andythenorth> but I am not a good enough programmer to update that ^
17:13:25 <andythenorth> alberth wrote it for me :)
17:17:58 <Eddi|zuHause> haven't we discussed that before?
17:18:36 <andythenorth> yes, you solved the count of revs
17:18:50 <andythenorth> my concern is that if I just hack at hg-info
17:18:59 <andythenorth> I don't really understand it :P
17:19:16 <andythenorth> and if I start from scratch, there's a lot of thinking by alberth thrown away
17:19:35 <Eddi|zuHause> you probably don't need all that complexity in that script
17:19:51 <andythenorth> I could likely do most of it from git describe
17:20:13 <Eddi|zuHause> there's some sanity checks buried in there
17:26:06 <LordAro> 10:03:59 < Eddi|zuHause> technically we can go to 1.15 without any trouble, then it'll conflict with newgrf version reporting
17:26:18 <LordAro> looks like there wouldn't actually be any problem with 1.16 in this regard
17:26:29 <LordAro> it would just happen to be the same as 2.0 :)
17:26:58 <LordAro> maybe it would be the same as 1.0
17:27:00 <Eddi|zuHause> but it might cut off some bits
17:27:11 <Eddi|zuHause> instead of overlaying them
17:27:26 <LordAro> maybe you'd need to bump it by another power of 2
17:27:57 <LordAro> 3 whole bits for the major version does seem a bit wasteful :p
17:29:30 <Eddi|zuHause> LordAro: just do a java and drop the first number :p
17:30:50 <Eddi|zuHause> if we don't have the courage to bump to 2.0, we might as well just shuffle the bits around, as long as the whole thing is monotonous
17:31:43 <frosch123> that's reasonable either way. if there is a 2.0, it won't be followed by another 1.x
17:32:24 <frosch123> btw. is there a reason noone made a 1.9.4 for the order bug? or just that noone did it?
17:32:48 <Eddi|zuHause> probably just inertia
17:33:39 <LordAro> frosch123: we wanted to push for 1.10 instead
17:34:18 <frosch123> i was just worried about pm answering those emails of people who cannot read forums or gh
17:36:33 * andythenorth likes smaller releases :P
17:36:44 <andythenorth> that may not be relevant here
17:37:10 <frosch123> that only works if you also like breaking changes
17:39:12 <frosch123> that's also the hot topic in c++ currently :)
17:39:48 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] BlackPlague666 commented on issue #7767: Large numbers of trains and signals cause low FPS https://git.io/Je8mF
17:56:35 <andythenorth> for joker trains (snowplough etc) is there any point in parameter to enable/disable?
17:56:41 <andythenorth> there is always 'hide'?
17:59:49 <andythenorth> enable by default, one paramter to mass-disable
18:00:17 <frosch123> i always disabled the weird rail vehicles in heqs :) but that was before hide-engine
18:05:32 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: just a generic "disable eyecandy vehicles" parameter
18:06:22 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: +1
18:06:40 <andythenorth> that's what I've implemented
18:07:17 <andythenorth> now I need to draw some more trains :P
18:10:55 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth commented on pull request #7809: Fix #7631: replace produced&transported with cargo sprites in industry directory https://git.io/JegoN
18:51:42 *** gelignite has joined #openttd
19:09:42 *** Wormnest_ has joined #openttd
19:45:50 <DorpsGek_III> - Update: Translations from eints (by translators)
20:00:39 *** andythenorth_ has joined #openttd
20:06:38 *** Wormnest_ has joined #openttd
20:15:37 <TrueBrain> (wait, is this a competition?)
20:15:48 <Markk> Depends on how you see it.
20:18:45 *** andythenorth_ has joined #openttd
20:18:51 <andythenorth_> i think i lost :|
20:19:05 <andythenorth_> what were the rules?
20:22:03 <Markk> That the spaghetti monster gives one tree to a rich Irish man, when we offer one liter of salt water to each goat and Volvo truck that are located in the ISS. The rules are simple, only spoons made of uranium-235 are allowed to feeding the salt water to the goat and truck.
20:24:03 <Markk> And I almost forgot, you are not allowed to use any space vehicles that launch from Kazakhstan or the USA.
20:27:21 <LordAro> Markk: i thought that was obvious
20:27:59 <Markk> LordAro: Good! Just wanted to make sure.
20:53:47 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on issue #7619: Game crash from out-of-bounds helicopter, infinite circling with superfast aircraft https://git.io/fjz3Z
21:48:22 <Samu> means I can work on my prs again, for the time being, hopefully things have stabilized in my life
21:56:46 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd
22:14:54 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] JGRennison opened pull request #7821: Fix #7820: Heap use after free when removing oil rig https://git.io/Jeg1I
22:28:02 *** Smedles has joined #openttd
22:44:39 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro approved pull request #7821: Fix #7820: Heap use after free when removing oil rig https://git.io/Jeg1A
22:46:31 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai
23:20:17 *** Progman has joined #openttd
23:41:01 *** tokai|noir has joined #openttd
23:41:01 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai|noir
23:49:09 <andythenorth> carry mail in snowploughs? o_O
23:49:21 <andythenorth> hey Samu is back :)
23:51:29 <Samu> the bug requires 2 vehicles: the blocking vehicle and the vehicle behind making a turn in the same tile after a reverse
23:52:41 <Samu> the topic title needs to change, it's not path cache related, it also happens in NPF which has no cache
continue to next day ⏵