IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2019-10-17
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00:03:54 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/website] andythenorth dismissed a review for pull request #102: Add: 2 screenshots for 1.9 https://git.io/Je44T
00:04:21 <andythenorth> I have not clicked any buttons
00:04:44 <andythenorth> oh I pushed on master, because that's what we do on website
00:04:55 <andythenorth> and now Github magic happened? oof
00:05:53 <andythenorth> oh that's annoying :x
00:10:25 <glx> you're supposed to PR from branches
00:11:19 <glx> and keep master up to date
00:12:08 <andythenorth> original advice from TB was stick it all in master and don't worry too much
00:12:14 <andythenorth> but GH doesn't work that way
00:12:46 <glx> it's ok if you only have 1 open PR
00:34:39 <peter1138> Hmm, install deb package or from github?
00:42:31 <Xaroth> What can possibly go wrong?
00:48:21 <Xaroth> Also, what happened with the August dev post? I still see it as a PR o_O
00:50:36 <Xaroth> might as well close the PR then :o
00:55:21 <peter1138> Make a PR to close the PR.
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03:47:12 <Eddi|zuHause> it's probably easier to rename the PR to the correct month :p
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12:05:46 <LordAro> should probably tell him we're not huge fans of suggestions on the bug tracker...
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12:14:31 <LordAro> "worn out three mouses this week already!"
12:18:34 <peter1138> If you have a category for suggestions you can easily ignore them :p
12:26:32 <LordAro> peter1138: but andythenorth will come along and close them anyway
12:32:43 <andythenorth> did anyone fix the October dev blog post yet?
13:43:08 * LordAro hasn't even looked at it yet
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14:31:39 <planetmaker> many comments by Xaroth it seems
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15:53:35 <peter1138> I hope not cos I already ate mine.
16:03:19 <peter1138> Maybe it's fifteenses?
16:03:34 <peter1138> I wonder if there's any stale old cakes left from last Friday.
16:04:06 <andythenorth> oranges are always valid
16:04:23 <peter1138> I have a satsuma, so yeah.
16:04:42 <andythenorth> citrus is nearly always valid
16:04:51 <andythenorth> although easting solitary limes is challenging
16:05:18 <peter1138> Grapefruits tend to be quite big and so have quite a lot of sugar content.
16:06:01 <andythenorth> didn't consider grapefruit
16:06:20 <andythenorth> how do I get satsumas after brexit?
16:06:24 <andythenorth> they all come from Spain
16:08:59 <peter1138> You'll still get them from Spain.
16:09:29 <peter1138> They might end up costing more though.
16:09:43 <andythenorth> that's disappointingly undramatic
16:09:48 <Eddi|zuHause> is brexit still happening?
16:10:19 <andythenorth> someone fixed that dev blog post?
16:10:22 <andythenorth> I can't be bothered :P
16:10:29 <andythenorth> the review notes are longer than the post
16:10:37 <andythenorth> they're probably accurate, but eh
16:10:58 <Eddi|zuHause> that's a good thing, right?
16:11:10 <Eddi|zuHause> means people actually care :p
16:11:12 <andythenorth> dunno, we apparently want more posts
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16:49:14 <Xaroth> andythenorth: yeah, I looked at your oct post :)
16:49:47 <andythenorth> can we just edit directly in PRs? :P
16:51:32 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: for the website, that's how we usually did it. there's an edit button on github
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16:58:12 <andythenorth> oh so if we approve & merge, anyone can edit directly in the openttd repo?
16:58:40 <andythenorth> I can't merge website stuff, as a CMD, it's quite laborious eh
17:01:54 <LordAro> andythenorth: i believe the general thought was that anyone who wants edit access can get edit access
17:01:59 <LordAro> but it does have to be manually added
17:02:40 <andythenorth> I can approve, but not merge afaict
17:02:58 <andythenorth> I am totally unclear who can merge, and I don't like bothering people to ask
17:03:09 <andythenorth> so it's quite a disincentive to actually doing anything
17:03:30 <LordAro> feel free to bother me about it
17:04:56 <andythenorth> can you merge that October dev post, so others can edit in place?
17:05:09 <andythenorth> round trip via my fork is daft, in hindsight
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17:10:09 <Eddi|zuHause2> andythenorth: i think there are more steps involved between merging and actually publishing, so it makes sense that that kind of work is restricted to fewer people
17:11:42 <andythenorth> afaik, it's just cutting a tag, and waiting to see if the magic magicked
17:14:16 <andythenorth> I'll see what Truebrain thinks next time he shows
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17:24:15 <DorpsGek_III> - Add: 2 screenshots for 1.9 (by andythenorth)
17:24:53 <andythenorth> there are some great screenshots on reddit, if anyone wanted to ask the authors
17:25:01 <andythenorth> or I could crack and get a reddit account :P
17:27:09 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/website] LordAro opened pull request #104: Change: Don't push push notifications to IRC https://git.io/Je4PG
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17:28:34 <LordAro> normally the monthly-dev-post branch is open to all, but andythenorth's PR is obviously on his fork, so...
17:28:45 <andythenorth> yeah I thought I was doing it right, but I was wrong
17:29:10 <andythenorth> my local fork has jekyll running, so it made it easy to test
17:30:21 <Eddi|zuHause> sometimes right is wrong
17:38:05 <LordAro> sometimes wrong is right
17:49:31 <Eddi|zuHause> sometimes wrong is wrong
17:49:47 <Eddi|zuHause> but almost never is right actually right
17:50:50 <peter1138> Sometimes it's nearly home time.
17:50:54 <andythenorth> spoken like a UI designer Eddi|zuHause :P
17:51:02 <andythenorth> nothing is ever right, it's just progressively less wrong
17:51:16 <andythenorth> UI tends to this horrible mediocrity of 'least worst'
17:51:20 <Eddi|zuHause> and sometimes it's fractally wrong
17:51:26 <Eddi|zuHause> it's wrong all the way down
17:51:30 <andythenorth> peter1138: home time!
17:51:41 <peter1138> 9 minutes. Should I have a quick "pick me up" before I go?
17:54:49 <andythenorth> do I play OpenTTD wrong? :P
17:55:29 <peter1138> Nah, I don't have brandy laying about the office.
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18:19:45 <Eddi|zuHause2> also, why does my internet disappear the moment i go online? :p
18:20:51 <andythenorth> heisen-something
18:21:12 <Eddi|zuHause2> and OBS doesn't seem to want to stop the stream
18:22:36 <Eddi|zuHause2> should be running again now
18:24:40 <nielsm> that's a boring ticket #7777
18:25:07 <Eddi|zuHause2> what a waste of a schnapszahl
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18:26:11 <andythenorth> why are conditional orders?
18:26:17 * andythenorth wonders about a patchpack
18:26:53 <Eddi|zuHause> conditional orders are a feature solely to confuse cargodist
18:30:32 <andythenorth> what problem are they solving?
18:30:55 * andythenorth declares an empathy problem for some features :P
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19:37:55 <andythenorth> so which is wrong?
19:39:15 <nielsm> the readme is more correct and less precise
19:41:12 * andythenorth lolz at running OpenTTD on old macs
19:41:44 <andythenorth> the minimum spec given for Mac is the first Mac I owned
19:42:33 <frosch123> all info is correct for *some* version of ottd :)
19:43:35 * andythenorth fixes a few wiki pages
19:44:11 <nielsm> I'd say that windows earlier than XP are definitely no longer supported as of 1.9
19:44:33 <nielsm> and XP is not officially supported either
19:45:10 <nielsm> (XP is in the "if it works it's unintentional" category)
19:45:31 <nielsm> macos, I have no idea about :D
19:45:50 <DorpsGek_III> - Update: Translations from eints (by translators)
19:49:51 <andythenorth> I would like to burn the About page on the website with fire
19:50:40 <frosch123> it has been copy&pasted into dozen of game reviews
19:51:05 <frosch123> if you find that list in a review, you can directly conclude on the quality of the text
19:54:19 <frosch123> maybe all headers on the homepage should redirect to a google search about it
19:54:32 <frosch123> "about" -> lgtfy "what is openttd about"
19:54:55 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/website] andythenorth opened pull request #105: Drop supported operating systems list from 'About' https://git.io/Je4M4
19:56:08 <glx> andythenorth: you included the screenshots
19:56:42 <andythenorth> I forget that I have to drop commits from a branch
19:57:14 <glx> no you don't have to, you just need to branch from the right place :)
19:57:29 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/website] andythenorth updated pull request #105: Drop supported operating systems list from 'About' https://git.io/Je4M4
19:57:39 <andythenorth> this is so inverse to the workflow we have at work :|
19:57:46 <glx> if you branch from a branch they will have the same base
19:57:55 <andythenorth> maintaining two different habits in one tool is brainache
19:59:40 <glx> for my action testing I just branched from master to create the first version, then branched from the branch to clone and modify and get a second version
20:01:01 <andythenorth> I am just going to make feature branches only for website
20:01:11 <andythenorth> the problem comes when my master diverges from upstream
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20:17:01 <andythenorth> TB thought the README.md should be restructured to move the developer stuff into docs/README.md
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20:17:40 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm not fond of the idea to hide information in so many layers
20:18:13 <frosch123> there also could be a CONTRIBUTORS.md
20:18:15 <andythenorth> my worry is that it's not maintainted
20:18:31 <frosch123> and some script to parse a known commit history to extract all the patchers
20:19:27 <nielsm> README, COMPILING, CONTRIBUTING
20:23:07 <andythenorth> maybe just the OS/2 one :D
20:24:03 <andythenorth> 1.9.1 and friends are missing :)
20:24:25 <nielsm> there is an open PR to forward port the changelog
20:24:31 <frosch123> i think it's even in the 1.10-beta pr
20:24:52 <andythenorth> should all .txt files be .md, or is that pointless change?
20:24:58 * andythenorth not looking for work, just a tidy house
20:27:12 <andythenorth> eh README is pretty good, no? Just the compiling section needs split out?
20:27:17 <andythenorth> rest seems fine, for now
20:27:52 <andythenorth> the team list is aging
20:34:52 <LordAro> it probably does need a bit of an update
20:46:09 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth opened pull request #7778: Docs: split compiling instructions from README, as they aren't requir… https://git.io/Je4DK
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20:50:34 <glx> hmm I fear a conflict in cmake branch
20:51:35 <glx> better wait for 1.10 branching I think
20:54:08 <andythenorth> I want to write words for legacy support somewhere
20:54:18 <andythenorth> I think last time we talked it was something like:
20:54:20 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on pull request #7778: Docs: split compiling instructions from README, as they aren't requir… https://git.io/Je4DQ
20:55:01 <andythenorth> "we'll keep support going on old platforms as long as someone is interested, except if it means the project can't move forward with language and compiler features"
20:55:21 <andythenorth> TL;DR "We'll do our best, except where it becomes impractical"
20:55:43 <andythenorth> and Apple users get n-2
20:55:52 <andythenorth> and should accept that they bought an Apple ideology
20:56:02 <LordAro> "anything that's still supported by its vendor"
20:56:46 <glx> andythenorth: the commit prefix should be Doc: not Docs:
20:57:11 * andythenorth wonders if CONTRIBUTING links to README for compiling also
20:57:37 <glx> (and I hate having to navigate really deep just to see the output of commit checker)
20:58:32 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth updated pull request #7778: Docs: split compiling instructions from README, as they aren't requir… https://git.io/Je4DK
20:59:05 <LordAro> something something GH Actions
20:59:05 <andythenorth> how I used git for so long without learning rebase -i :P
20:59:34 <Eddi|zuHause> if you're not using rebase, might as well use hg :p
20:59:59 <glx> I love rebase -i, you can even duplicate commits to split them
21:00:23 <Eddi|zuHause> wasn't there a different tool to split commits?
21:00:44 <frosch123> mercurial queues :p
21:00:46 <andythenorth> sometimes I'm tempted to use rebase -i at work to hide my mistakes :P
21:00:49 <andythenorth> but force push is banned
21:01:27 <LordAro> it's fine as long as it's not been pushed anywhere
21:01:43 <LordAro> it's a bit silly if force push is banned globally
21:02:07 * andythenorth wonders how to do a relative link from README.md to COMPILING.md :P
21:02:09 <glx> I can understand force push ban on master
21:03:01 <LordAro> andythenorth: [./COMPILING.md](foobar) i think?
21:03:01 <andythenorth> nielsm: honestly I might leave a compiling link out of README, can't see a good place for it
21:03:05 <glx> and of course not force pushing on something you know you're not the only one concerned
21:03:35 <andythenorth> we have asynchronous collaboration on the same branch
21:03:40 <andythenorth> and email is deprecated
21:03:47 <andythenorth> and we have remote workers :P
21:03:54 <LordAro> yeah, use your own branch then :p
21:03:56 <andythenorth> so post-its on monitors also don't solve that
21:04:13 <nielsm> andythenorth: just add two lines in the About section, one referencing the Compiling file and one referencing Contributing
21:05:07 <andythenorth> check the README
21:05:17 <andythenorth> where does it say you can get binaries from? :)
21:05:38 <LordAro> should be somewhere :p
21:06:19 <andythenorth> I'll make about 3 sections
21:06:28 <andythenorth> 1.1 Download 1.2 Compiling 1.3 Contributing
21:06:55 <andythenorth> why is Contact and Reporting Desyncs higher priority than Installing?
21:07:03 <andythenorth> not exactly confidence inspiring :P
21:07:14 <andythenorth> let's make this better
21:15:45 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth updated pull request #7778: Docs: split compiling instructions from README, as they aren't requir… https://git.io/Je4DK
21:16:46 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth updated pull request #7778: Docs: split compiling instructions from README, as they aren't requir… https://git.io/Je4DK
21:17:09 <andythenorth> nielsm or LordAro could you check and approve that?
21:17:28 <andythenorth> I want to restructure the readme quite a lot, but in a different PR for separation of concerns
21:19:04 <LordAro> andythenorth: i'd probably get rid of the contents table from COMPILING, tbh
21:19:35 <nielsm> make the FSF folks happy and make one section for GNU/Linux, and another for FreeBSD, OpenBSD, Solaris, other unices
21:19:45 <nielsm> and put them in that order
21:20:05 <andythenorth> what is Haiku even? :P
21:20:17 <nielsm> but don't put "unix" with "linux"
21:20:32 <nielsm> strictly, *BSD systems are unix, while GNU's Not Unix
21:21:01 <andythenorth> ToC definitely redundant?
21:21:09 <andythenorth> I was 50:50 on it, page isn't big
21:21:38 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth updated pull request #7778: Docs: split compiling instructions from README, as they aren't requir… https://git.io/Je4DK
21:22:00 <andythenorth> hmm needs more edit
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21:22:56 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth updated pull request #7778: Docs: split compiling instructions from README, as they aren't requir… https://git.io/Je4DK
21:23:14 <nielsm> "Run ./configure to prepare the build system. Run ./configure --help to see the available options." \n "After configuring, run make (or gmake if your default make is not GNU compatible) to build, run make install to install the the configured location.
21:23:37 <andythenorth> I'm happy to let other folks edit specific platform stuff
21:23:49 <andythenorth> I'd rather spend time on README
21:25:17 <LordAro> yeah, i think that can go
21:29:14 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth opened pull request #7779: Doc: drop Readme_OS2, it has aged, let it go gracefully https://git.io/Je4yg
21:30:13 <LordAro> bits and pieces could probably go in there, yeah
21:30:20 <LordAro> or maybe it should just be on the wiki
21:30:43 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro approved pull request #7779: Doc: drop Readme_OS2, it has aged, let it go gracefully https://git.io/Je4yw
21:32:51 <andythenorth> well 1 section at a time: Supported Compilers is a dupe with COMPILING.md
21:32:53 <glx> maybe just merge MSVC.md in COMPILING.md
21:33:34 <glx> it was like that to not overload README I think
21:33:57 <andythenorth> totally made sense
21:35:56 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro requested changes for pull request #7771: Add: UDP query of game script https://git.io/Je4y6
21:36:24 <andythenorth> there are some useful wiki pages for compiling, I'm linking them
21:38:56 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth updated pull request #7778: Docs: split compiling instructions from README, as they aren't requir… https://git.io/Je4DK
21:39:14 <glx> andythenorth: you changed to Docs again ;)
21:39:50 <andythenorth> I am doing commit --amend, oops
21:40:04 <andythenorth> using up-cursor in shell :P
21:40:25 <glx> commit --amend doesn't change the commit message
21:40:41 <andythenorth> it does if I remember to amend it?
21:40:50 <andythenorth> instead of reusing the old one
21:40:51 <glx> it does if you edit the file yes
21:41:06 <andythenorth> the brackets fuck it
21:41:07 <glx> for me it opens an editor
21:41:38 <glx> there should be a %something for that
21:42:02 <glx> and my previous remark was about --amend
21:42:45 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth updated pull request #7778: Docs: split compiling instructions from README, as they aren't requir… https://git.io/Je4DK
21:45:06 <andythenorth> ok I am hoping that's good to go?
21:45:46 <andythenorth> I'd like to consolidate docs/Readme_Windows_MSVC.md separately
21:46:20 <LordAro> i wouldn't mind that being in the same PR
21:47:24 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro merged pull request #7779: Doc: drop Readme_OS2, it has aged, let it go gracefully https://git.io/Je4yg
21:49:16 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on pull request #7778: Doc: split compiling instructions from README, as they aren't requir… https://git.io/Je4Se
21:49:38 <Wolf01> Nice, it looks like OTTD running on OTTD :D
21:55:01 <andythenorth> cos *BSD is Unix afaik
21:56:03 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth updated pull request #7778: Doc: split compiling instructions from README, as they aren't requir… https://git.io/Je4DK
21:56:24 <andythenorth> ok I'll consolidate the windows doc next
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21:57:31 <flyingghoti> Hello, everyone! I'm part of a group that's just launched a new
21:58:11 <flyingghoti> ...city-builder open-source project called Charm Cities, and I thought there might be people here interested in comparing notes and experiences. http://charmcities.net/
22:00:49 <flyingghoti> We're trying to create a new type of city-builder game that really advances the genre by including a complete sociopolitical model that includes topics like race, disability, gender, and religion. If that's the sort of thing you find interesting, or if there are things you've learned on OpenTTD that you think it would be helpful for us to know, or if there might be assets or code you've already built that you think might h
22:02:18 <andythenorth> without being cynical, sounds like griefer paradise :)
22:02:55 <andythenorth> it's perfect 4chan fodder
22:04:34 <Eddi|zuHause> i just saw a game on steam: "social justice warrior" :p
22:05:13 <flyingghoti> Oh, sure, that's definitely a concern. But I don't want to not make something cool because the worst people in the world might be mad that it exists. At some point, all you can really do is put 2FA on all your accounts and go for it.
22:08:50 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth updated pull request #7778: Doc: split compiling instructions from README, as they aren't requir… https://git.io/Je4DK
22:09:01 <nielsm> best of luck, if you manage to make a belivable simulation with all those elements that isn't full of glitches you'll probably have solved problems considered impossible in mathematics, physics, and computer science along the way
22:09:09 <nielsm> not to speak of social sciences
22:09:20 <andythenorth> it's worth trying
22:10:14 <nielsm> random technical advice: think modding first, design the core structure around having everything in the game run on the same rules/pluggable architecture
22:10:16 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth updated pull request #7778: Doc: split compiling instructions from README, as they aren't requir… https://git.io/Je4DK
22:10:33 <nielsm> unless you decide that mod support is off-limits and design the game to explicitly not be moddable
22:12:01 <flyingghoti> Thanks, nielsm, I had the vague suspicion that would be a good plan but it's really helpful to hear it confirmed.
22:13:01 <nielsm> one of the annoying things in openttd is that it's built as a core game with built in defaults, and then mods are created as "take original item X and modify these properties"
22:13:19 <nielsm> and there is no such thing as starting a mod from a blank slate, you can only do it based off existing objects
22:14:15 <nielsm> this is due to legacy, inheriting the modding technology from ttdpatch that's an unofficial binary patch for transport tycoon deluxe, a 25 years old game
22:14:33 <flyingghoti> Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.
22:15:18 <nielsm> and of course there's no way to change that now without breaking the thousands of things created already, it all has to stay compatible with all new development
22:16:17 <andythenorth> oh fuck git sometimes :(
22:16:28 <andythenorth> rebase upstream/master onto my master gets me a merge commit
22:16:40 <nielsm> having a strong mods-first policy also forces some strong separation of concerns on the program code and can to some extent avoid spaghetti
22:16:40 <Eddi|zuHause> well, we could break all existing mods, but i doubt the community would recover from that :p
22:17:33 <andythenorth> rebase -i seems to cover all sins :P
22:17:55 <LordAro> i mean, we could do "NewGRFv2" (yes i know the current version is 9, shut up), but there's no way we could ever get rid of "v1"
22:17:56 <nielsm> the disadvantage of that kind of arhitecture is that the decoupling most likely means worse performance than if everything was tightly integrated, and the development path to get to a good place is longer since you need much more framework built before you have things "working"
22:18:01 <Eddi|zuHause> don't worry, there'll be new sins where those came from :p
22:19:48 <nielsm> flyingghoti: another thing to know about openttd's architecture, which may not be relevant to you, is that the game is designed to be 100% deterministic, if two players load the same save file in the same revision of openttd, and let it run without interaction (and no AIs or Game Script either), the two will produce exactly the same result
22:19:55 <andythenorth> I really think that the modding framework in OpenTTD is fine
22:20:06 <nielsm> that's the foundation of the multiplayer support in openttd, that every client executes exactly the same simulation
22:20:07 <andythenorth> it's just that we fell in a cognitive hole with GS
22:20:29 <nielsm> it's possible to do multiplayer in other ways, but this is the way ottd handles it
22:21:24 <nielsm> andythenorth: well it would be cool if we could somehow define even the base vehicle set in a GRF
22:21:45 <andythenorth> well I have often wondered about that
22:21:45 <flyingghoti> That is interesting, yeah - we've discussed multiplayer a bit but we haven't come to a decision on how important it is to us yet. If we decide to leave it out of our minimum viable product we should still think about questions like that so it's not impossible to implement later.
22:21:59 <andythenorth> my assumption nielsm is that a bunch of .h files or similar can then be dropped :P
22:22:11 <andythenorth> and we could...you know...extende the base vehicles with cargo classes :P
22:22:29 <andythenorth> thereby avoiding one of the common newgrf elephant traps
22:22:31 <Eddi|zuHause> flyingghoti: if you think multiplayer isn't a focus early on, you'll probably never have multiplayer, ever.
22:22:58 <nielsm> yes multiplayer is also one of those things you have to design for from the ground up
22:23:21 <nielsm> it will permeate the entire code base
22:23:37 <nielsm> ...depending on the architecture
22:24:16 <andythenorth> anyone got comments on that Windows compiling info?
22:24:24 <nielsm> and all of these things are also covered by my favourite game engine of all time, the Quake 1 engine
22:24:28 <andythenorth> I can only maintain interest in something like that for a limited period :P
22:24:36 * andythenorth attention span issues
22:24:51 <nielsm> it's mods-first, and even singleplayer games are internally handled as client-server
22:24:54 <andythenorth> Quak 1: the reason you bought a Pentium
22:24:55 <LordAro> probably needs nielsm to review
22:25:15 <andythenorth> nielsm: have you read the Carmack / Romero book?
22:25:26 <nielsm> I'm not typing clearly atm, have to retype sentences a lot :)
22:25:37 <andythenorth> I never type clearly it seems
22:25:41 <nielsm> no but I probably should
22:25:52 <andythenorth> real focus on authoring tools, very early on
22:25:54 <frosch123> andythenorth: i never bought a pentium
22:26:02 <andythenorth> you got given one? :P
22:26:23 <frosch123> i used k6 and k6 II around that time
22:26:38 <nielsm> I played quake on a pentium 75 mhz and it was barely good enough
22:26:51 <dwfreed> there's probably still a pentium pro 200 MHz at my parents' place
22:26:54 <glx> AI and gamescript addition was "cleaner"
22:27:10 <andythenorth> yeah, my friend had a PC and upgraded from 486-66 to Pentium 75 or 90, and Quake just about got playable FPS
22:27:21 <andythenorth> 'when computers had turbo buttons'
22:27:29 <flyingghoti> I'm wrapping up my work day and I don't want to keep you from the exciting work of sorting out Windows compiling, so I'm going to head out now, but thank you for the thoughts! This was really useful, and I might come back some time. If you're interested in following what we're getting up to, check out the website!
22:27:45 <Eddi|zuHause> i upgraded from a 386 to a K6-III or so
22:27:51 <frosch123> LordAro: btw. the solution to remove newgrf is to go the pentium route. jit them into the new format
22:27:56 <nielsm> Eddi|zuHause: that's a massive jump
22:28:17 <LordAro> frosch123: mm, possible
22:28:33 <nielsm> implement a newgrf VM in whatever new language of choice
22:28:36 <Eddi|zuHause> nielsm: don't remember, about 10 times the speed?
22:28:53 <LordAro> nielsm: for loops in yaml!
22:28:54 <andythenorth> err because the website is now quite burocratic
22:29:06 <andythenorth> do I do one screenshot at a time, and wait weeks to assemble a batch?
22:29:11 <andythenorth> or just do a PR as I get them
22:29:12 <nielsm> Eddi|zuHause, maybe measured in mhz, probably more like 30x actual execution speed
22:29:41 <LordAro> andythenorth: no harm in waiting a bit longer, imo
22:29:53 <nielsm> andythenorth: live website is only updated when a release tag is made
22:29:59 <andythenorth> a PR for one screenshot seems overkill
22:30:02 <andythenorth> but I only have one
22:30:15 <Eddi|zuHause> nielsm: afair it didn't survive very long, some capacitor on the mainboard exploded, and i had to get a new one
22:31:09 <LordAro> andythenorth: i'd be more inclined to merge a screenshot PR if it contained 1.5-8 title games :p
22:31:13 <andythenorth> only Windows seems to need all that stuff, the other platforms are a couple of lines
22:31:48 <LordAro> andythenorth: i would prefer it if the links were more specific
22:31:56 <LordAro> the stackexchange link above should help
22:32:15 <LordAro> alternatively %28 & %29
22:32:17 <frosch123> andythenorth: usually you want to ditch the wiki into docs :p
22:32:59 <LordAro> andythenorth: "To get them use [vcpkg](githublink)..."
22:33:15 <LordAro> also it still refers to the doc you just removed :p
22:33:44 <LordAro> in fact, that whole section is out of order
22:33:52 <LordAro> SDK -> Dependencies -> Build
22:35:09 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth updated pull request #7778: Doc: split compiling instructions from README, as they aren't requir… https://git.io/Je4DK
22:37:10 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth updated pull request #7778: Doc: split compiling instructions from README, as they aren't requir… https://git.io/Je4DK
22:37:38 <andythenorth> isn't the deps stuff duplicated now?
22:38:11 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth updated pull request #7778: Doc: split compiling instructions from README, as they aren't requir… https://git.io/Je4DK
22:39:08 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth updated pull request #7778: Doc: split compiling instructions from README, as they aren't requir… https://git.io/Je4DK
22:39:35 <andythenorth> "To get them just use vcpkg using x86-windows-static and x64-windows-static triplets)."
22:39:50 <andythenorth> "To install both the x64 (64bit) and x86 (32bit) variants, you can use: [instructions for vcpkg]"
22:39:57 <andythenorth> seems to overlap?
22:41:02 <andythenorth> 'additonal' typo repeated multiple times also
22:41:23 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth updated pull request #7778: Doc: split compiling instructions from README, as they aren't requir… https://git.io/Je4DK
22:42:06 <andythenorth> in the compiling doc, surely required libraries comes before instructions?
22:43:48 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth updated pull request #7778: Doc: split compiling instructions from README, as they aren't requir… https://git.io/Je4DK
22:48:46 <glx> I need to add some safety stuff, like checking it's not a windows VM :)
22:49:00 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth updated pull request #7778: Doc: split compiling instructions from README, as they aren't requir… https://git.io/Je4DK
22:49:29 <andythenorth> ^ I think that might be done, barring fuckups :)
22:49:38 <andythenorth> if anyone fancies clicking some green buttons in GH :P
22:50:06 <LordAro> andythenorth: libicu is is Linux only nowadays
22:50:26 <LordAro> and... so is libfreetype? or am i misremembering?
22:50:42 <glx> freetype is droped on windows yes
22:51:08 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth updated pull request #7778: Doc: split compiling instructions from README, as they aren't requir… https://git.io/Je4DK
22:51:22 <glx> still included in compile farm for 1.9 windows builds
22:51:48 <andythenorth> I've noted libicu
22:51:55 <andythenorth> if someone wants to review deps formally, they can :)
22:52:04 <andythenorth> this was just about cleaning up README :P
22:52:19 <andythenorth> like topsy, it has growed
22:52:24 <andythenorth> what even is topsy? :P
22:53:25 <LordAro> andythenorth: "or more recent" -> "or newer"
22:53:34 <LordAro> i should probably review this properly on GH
22:53:53 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth updated pull request #7778: Doc: split compiling instructions from README, as they aren't requir… https://git.io/Je4DK
22:54:41 * andythenorth must to bed, you could just fork it and make in-place edits
22:55:00 <andythenorth> reviewing .md docs via GH seems like double handling to me
22:55:13 <andythenorth> at work we just trade commits, or use etherpad
22:55:20 <andythenorth> or even...google docs :P
22:55:22 <LordAro> can't make it too easy for you :p
22:57:05 <andythenorth> I love that the major feature in the readme is 5.1) Logging of potentially dangerous actions
23:04:01 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro requested changes for pull request #7778: Doc: split compiling instructions from README, as they aren't requir… https://git.io/Je49E
23:07:16 <LordAro> andythenorth: major feature?
23:08:22 <andythenorth> it's the main topic under OpenTTD features
23:08:42 <andythenorth> I shall fix that...once I can restructure README safely :)
23:09:03 <andythenorth> the README is quite lolz, looked at with fresh eyes
23:09:05 <andythenorth> but very fixable
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23:18:52 <andythenorth> is it bedtime? :P
23:23:28 *** andythenorth has left #openttd
continue to next day ⏵
