IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2019-09-22
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00:31:29 <andythenorth> oops bedtime was ages ago
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02:07:41 <Wormnest> Last automatic build of master for Windows is Sept 15. There might be a problem there since there have been later commits.
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04:18:00 <glx> yes staging has the recent nightlies
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05:59:11 <SimYouLater> Specifically, read the second post and then the first one, it'll make more sense.
06:01:05 <SimYouLater> Actually, I edited both posts so it's easier to make sense of. Help?
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08:32:26 * andythenorth container madness
08:43:34 <andythenorth> is it 4x sprites?
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08:52:51 <Pikka> 2x is plenty, I think. Keeps the pixelly goodness.
08:54:35 * andythenorth provides 1x sprites
08:54:41 <andythenorth> but 4x the required number of trains
08:55:15 <andythenorth> probably the same, net :P
08:55:57 <Pikka> maybe? But still 1/65536th the colours? ;)
09:12:40 <andythenorth> should I include a gronk?
09:12:47 <andythenorth> it breaks from the set design :P
09:18:38 <Pikka> and a jinty upgrade or something
09:27:21 <andythenorth> 0-6-0 tram engine
10:38:29 <Pikka> andythenorth, sent you a pm about life stuff.
10:39:21 <TrueBrain> owh boy, the MasterServer code really got a bit messy and hard to understand .... this will be fun to port to Python :D
10:40:19 <andythenorth> Do A New One From Scratch
10:40:26 <TrueBrain> the shared codebase is for master-server, the updater, and content-server (BaNaNaS)
10:40:31 <TrueBrain> the SQL has inline functions and views
10:40:35 <andythenorth> obviously whoever wrote an existing system is always an idiot
10:40:41 <andythenorth> even if it's been in prod for years
10:40:50 <TrueBrain> even if you did it yourself :P
10:41:30 * andythenorth wonders which idiot wrote this Iron Horse code
10:46:40 <Eddi|zuHause> probably TrueBrain :p
10:47:00 <TrueBrain> LordAro: yeah .. you can say that :D But okay .. it needs to happen ...
10:47:07 <TrueBrain> hmm, most code isn't even written by me
10:47:11 <TrueBrain> so I can blame someone else \o/
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11:04:35 * andythenorth should finish Horse
11:04:44 <andythenorth> NARS Revival Edition
11:06:16 <andythenorth> 28 types of Centennial
11:08:13 * andythenorth should buy shares in Australian solar -> hydrogen -> export
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11:44:28 <TrueBrain> yippie, a server can register to my new master server \o/
11:44:41 <TrueBrain> code contains more comments than lines of code ...
11:46:23 <TrueBrain> yes, that is the quality of my coding indeed :P
11:46:52 <TrueBrain> "received packet type 0 on wrong port from 127.0.0.1:3978 (IPv4)" awwwhhh
11:46:54 <TrueBrain> I forgot something :D
11:49:27 <firewire1394> i'm new to openttd, need to learn how to use signals is so hard, even though it has a great wiki about.
11:49:42 <firewire1394> i don't know if it is good to play on a server as newb :)
11:50:24 <TrueBrain> best things I learnt on a server :P
11:50:52 <firewire1394> TrueBrain: so how do i join yours and can we be in the same company?
11:51:03 <firewire1394> and is there some sort of ingame chat
11:51:49 <TrueBrain> I haven't played in .. euh ... decades :D Sorry :P
11:52:07 <firewire1394> TrueBrain: but why you've a server then? O_o
11:52:29 <TrueBrain> I am not :) I am reworking the master server, the part of OpenTTD that tells you which servers exist :)
11:58:37 <TrueBrain> that moment of disapointment :D
11:59:09 <firewire1394> TrueBrain: so you do C programming?
12:03:56 <firewire1394> Eddi|zuHause: it is not openttd?
12:03:58 <nielsm> I really like the track layouts you can do in transport fever
12:04:46 <Eddi|zuHause> these diamond crossovers using double slip crossings are a pain to build
12:04:58 <SpComb> ...if you spend half an hour on them
12:04:59 <firewire1394> danke frosch123 :)
12:06:41 <Eddi|zuHause> SpComb: that's easy, just build your station approaches completely flat :p
12:07:02 <firewire1394> sind hier viele deutsch sprechende? :)
12:07:15 <Eddi|zuHause> no, this is an english only channel
12:07:45 <SpComb> complex flyovers are painfully hard at times, openttd is more limited, but there's less trial-and-error getting things built
12:07:57 <firewire1394> why you post other games in here then? :p
12:08:01 <Eddi|zuHause> bridges are a real pain...
12:08:20 <Eddi|zuHause> firewire1394: the topic doesn't say "openttd only" :p
12:08:41 <firewire1394> ok then let's talk politics in here
12:10:42 <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: something that could be fixed btw :P :D >:D
12:14:17 <Eddi|zuHause> TrueBrain: if you want this channel to be even more dead than usual, sure :p
12:14:55 <TrueBrain> wow, the client is very slow if it fetches all content .. damn ..
12:17:54 <TrueBrain> right, it reads the gameinfo too now, sweet :)
12:18:08 <TrueBrain> I just found out that the master server also needs the openttd codebase
12:18:16 <TrueBrain> yet another link, w00p :D
12:18:39 <frosch123> that's what the "core" part in src/network/core is about
12:26:38 <LordAro> back in day when you could just do svn checkout .../src/network/core :)
12:29:48 <frosch123> yep, it's an svn external
12:30:06 <frosch123> though less "external", but same repository :p
12:30:31 <frosch123> when there was a separate strgen bundle, the same existed for strgen and openttd
12:38:29 <Wolf01> Too bad TF looks so model train
12:42:00 <Wolf01> Ok, I fixed the factory in Factorio, now I need to fix the dedicated server version so I can login... but I need to make my friend move his lazy ass to do it :P
12:56:39 <milek7> terrain in transport fever look really nice
13:02:25 <FLHerne> firewire1394: Still around? I'd be happy to share a company with you on some server
13:02:43 <FLHerne> (Reddit S1 is probably best if there's a company left)
13:03:27 <firewire1394> FLHerne: hello yes
13:04:01 <FLHerne> Hang on, I just realised I don't have 1.9.3 yet...
13:04:10 <FLHerne> TrueBrain: What happened to the 'generic linux' tars?
13:06:00 <milek7> these aren't built anymore
13:09:19 <LordAro> FLHerne: it was discovered they basically only worked on ubuntu and barely downloaded
13:11:55 <LordAro> so were retired on the assumption that people that needed them could probably compile themselves
13:12:10 <FLHerne> Huh, they always worked for me
13:12:27 <FLHerne> And compiling OTTD takes bloody ages on my poor old laptop :-/
13:12:33 <LordAro> there were issues with compatibility, anyway
13:13:01 <FLHerne> I suppose the proper way to do it would be an AppImage
13:13:12 <FLHerne> But those are horrible to maintain...
13:13:14 <LordAro> there's an open issue about replacing them - likely with a static build for centos5, like how python packages are done
13:13:53 <LordAro> AppImage & snap & friends all have exactly the same issues with compatibility :p
13:16:09 <LordAro> i spend a lot of time getting things to compile for centos5 for work (best not ask), so i'll probably look at it at some point
13:41:42 <Eddi|zuHause> ok, i'm definitely not having enough cargo engines...
13:42:32 <TrueBrain> oef, how the master server protocol is designed, it is hard to have multiple instances running on the backend to process it ..
13:43:14 <Eddi|zuHause> redesign it for 1.10, then have a legacy masterserver running for the old version?
13:43:45 <TrueBrain> that would work; but I also want to replace the legacy masterserver soon-ish
13:44:00 <TrueBrain> as I cannot move the current codebase onto the new server
13:50:00 <milek7> it sounds to me as another cloud or something weirdness. what's the point of running multiple instances for processing?
14:04:30 <TrueBrain> hmm .. the biggest "flaw" seems to be that everything on UDP goes over the game-server port, but the ACK from the masterserver comes back via another flow .. which requires UDP NAT if you are behind a NAT .. that is more annoying than I would like ..
14:06:00 <TrueBrain> as dealing with the NAT means that our source IP needs to be the same as the destination IP as seen by the game server .. ugh
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14:12:25 <TrueBrain> meh; and DigitalOcean LoadBalancer doesn't support UDP .. hmmm
14:12:35 <TrueBrain> this is more of a pita than I would like .. WHY?! WHWHHHYYYYYYY???!!!! :D
14:12:50 <Eddi|zuHause> nothing is ever easy...
14:13:29 <TrueBrain> master server always has been such a pain :(
14:13:34 <Eddi|zuHause> like, the TF workshop is full of passenger locomotives for 1900 era, but no freight
14:14:19 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: how about fever horse?
14:14:58 <Eddi|zuHause> basically pixels, but 3D, and smooth.
14:20:20 <Eddi|zuHause> ah well, i guess i'll have to use one of those ridiculously expensive passenger engines then
14:21:04 <Wolf01> <andythenorth> 28 types of Centennial <- please do it
14:29:39 <SpComb> TrueBrain: haproxy to the rescue! oh wait
14:30:22 <TrueBrain> yeah ... that sadly is the solution :(
14:30:27 <TrueBrain> or nginx, what-ever floats your boat, ofc
14:36:27 <TrueBrain> meh; an IPv6 request to cloudflare results in an IPv4 request on the backend .. not what I was hoping for :P
14:38:31 <TrueBrain> ah .. removing the IPv4 from their configuration fixes it :D
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15:01:21 <TrueBrain> IPv4, IPv6, the usual
15:04:32 <Eddi|zuHause> uhm, so how do i turn a crossing into a doubleslip crossing, if i can't click on the crossing on account of it being inside a tunnel?
15:08:19 <Eddi|zuHause> there's only so far i can see into the tunnel from the entrance
15:10:04 <TrueBrain> I meant the download :)
15:10:11 <TrueBrain> sorry, I switched to other work :P
15:10:26 <TrueBrain> I was a bit bad in phrasing there
15:12:06 <Wolf01> I'm on IPv4 and downloads fine
15:12:57 <TrueBrain> LordAro: I need an IPv6 tester :D
15:34:55 <Eddi|zuHause> ok, i think i actually managed to build this underground junction...
15:35:01 <Eddi|zuHause> i have no clue how
15:44:04 <Heiki> TrueBrain: using “wget -6”: openttd-1.9.3-windo 100%[===================>] 5,15M 1,62MB/s in 3,2s
15:44:07 <Heiki> and with “wget -4”: openttd-1.9.3-windo 100%[===================>] 5,15M 2,34MB/s in 2,2s
15:44:29 <TrueBrain> I assume that is your connection limit there? (~20 mbit/s)
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15:45:13 <Heiki> 4G in the city, so more or less that, yes
15:45:22 <TrueBrain> I like cloudflare so far :)
15:45:36 <Wolf01> openttd-1.9.3-windows-win64.exe.1 100%[=================================================================================================>] 5.15M 3.20MB/s in 1.6s <- here if you want mine more precise :P
15:45:58 <TrueBrain> Wolf01: if 30 mbit/s is expected for your connection, that is exactly what I want to know :)
15:59:23 <glx> works here too IPv4 and IPv6 :)
15:59:48 <TrueBrain> DigitalOcean CDN keeps giving me 404s on files that exist for ages .. so I hope switching to CloudFlare resolves that issue at least partially
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16:00:24 <Eddi|zuHause> "if cloud isn't solving your problem, you're not using enough of it yet"?
16:01:17 <TrueBrain> glx: possibly the build of the website failed (due to the above issue :P)
16:05:27 <TrueBrain> for some reason the watcher was no longer informed of changes
16:05:32 <TrueBrain> it is deploying now
16:14:00 <Wolf01> Who watches the watchers?
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16:24:55 <andythenorth> are we doing 2.0? o_O
16:29:27 <Eddi|zuHause> why is there no cargo wagon that can hold both stone and building materials...
16:32:54 * andythenorth tries to imagine Eddi playing OpenTTD :)
16:33:19 <Eddi|zuHause> i basically haven't done that since i started CETS
16:34:41 <Eddi|zuHause> i rather play a game where i have to track down a 1-pixel track segment to destroy in order to fit in the next double slip crossing
16:34:50 <andythenorth> perfectly reasonable
16:36:52 <Eddi|zuHause> because why would you implement a feature that lets you click on a switch and extrude the 4th arm at the same angle to turn it into a crossing
16:50:16 <andythenorth> containers have gone mad in Horse
16:50:25 <andythenorth> all known cargos, many variants of container :P
16:50:33 <andythenorth> not sure I could explain how it works if asked
16:50:41 <andythenorth> has reached V453000 levels
16:51:57 <TrueBrain> you switching jobs too? :D
16:52:14 <andythenorth> not unless I screw up :P
16:52:24 <frosch123> i was suprised that andy did not delete 75% of firs cargos to make horse easier
16:52:26 <andythenorth> or somebody isn't telling me something
16:52:41 <andythenorth> frosch123 more cargos are harder? :o
16:52:51 <TrueBrain> I was more guessing that reaching those epic levels, you are going to help out with factorio too :P
16:53:00 <frosch123> andythenorth: more work
16:53:23 <frosch123> TrueBrain: you are working for F now?
16:53:31 * andythenorth wonders if F can generate newgrf
16:53:39 <andythenorth> automation pipeline
16:53:44 <TrueBrain> it was andythenorth that made the reference ffs :P
16:54:09 <frosch123> haha, so you know V for F, not for NUTS :p
16:54:31 <TrueBrain> I know nothing of nothing
16:54:45 <TrueBrain> but this is a /r/woosh story atm :P
16:55:23 <frosch123> "knowing nothing of nothing" and "everything of nothing" is about the same
16:57:31 <Eddi|zuHause> hey, asserting properties of members of the empty set is fun :)
16:57:46 <TrueBrain> fucking math geeks :P
16:59:02 <TrueBrain> we love you for it btw .. ;)
16:59:30 <Eddi|zuHause> one of the first texts i read when going to university was starting like: "let numbers be called 'fascinating' if they are both prime and square"
17:01:13 <andythenorth> how people have the attention span for exercise
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17:03:02 <frosch123> isn't the trick to code the exercises into muscle memory and then doing something else to distract you while doing exercises?
17:06:23 <Eddi|zuHause> ok, maybe i slightly overestimated the performance of this very early electric prototype engine :p
17:16:10 <supermop_Home_> andythenorth I can only run on street. treadmill too boring
17:16:32 <Eddi|zuHause> what? you go OUTSIDE?!?!
17:20:42 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: you should watch TierZoo. "Outside" has a lot of fancy mechanics and a huge selection of playable archetypes
17:21:14 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: i did once, i did not see the appeal in that game.
17:21:47 <Eddi|zuHause> i also noted the hidden pun if you speak german :p
17:22:28 <frosch123> it's not really a hidden pun, if the author was not aware of it
17:25:09 <Eddi|zuHause> well, that just makes it extra hidden :p
17:26:34 <supermop_Home_> I've made a real mess of getting over this mountain rage
17:27:19 <Eddi|zuHause> what are we looking at?
17:28:37 <supermop_Home_> trying to figure out how lines should connect through the area of sandkulle (pink ?)
17:30:14 <frosch123> malsund and saskskrone are at about the same altitude
17:30:27 <supermop_Home_> yellow fast trains from the south terminate at osterkulle where service is picked up by red line on the north of the lake (mixed traffic) and green line on the south (express)
17:30:30 <frosch123> so just follow the isoline
17:32:58 <supermop_Home_> so I guess how do red and blue (mountain pass to the north) connect to pink and green ins the question - junction at Malsund or sandkulle
17:33:06 <Eddi|zuHause> supermop_Home_: i'd raise that area to the lower right of the town up one level to place the station, then there should be few enough heightlevels to connect to Malsund, and the rest follows naturally
17:34:00 <Eddi|zuHause> so the station is 2 levels above sandkulle
17:34:50 <frosch123> i would have put the junction west of saskskrona, on top of the mountain, not in the valley
17:37:15 <supermop_Home_> frosch123 yes that does seem like it would have been better
17:37:54 <supermop_Home_> then red would be pointing toward blue
17:41:02 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] JMcKiern commented on pull request #7749: Fix: Some typos found using codespell https://git.io/JesC5
17:42:22 <supermop_Home_> I could also put a (red | blue | green) -> (pink) junction at Malsund and bypass sandkulle
17:43:44 <supermop_Home_> it's small enough a bus connection to nearby towns should suffice
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17:49:20 <firewire1394> help, my openttd lags every few seconds
17:49:27 <firewire1394> like every 3 seconds is a freeze
17:50:08 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm afraid that we need more information than that
17:50:40 <firewire1394> which information
17:51:00 <Eddi|zuHause> like, a savegame?
17:51:15 <firewire1394> no savegame, it is already freezing in the menu every few seconds
17:51:36 <Eddi|zuHause> system specs, baseset?
17:51:57 <Eddi|zuHause> (my first money would be on sprite cache issue)
17:52:40 <firewire1394> how to delete it?
17:53:22 <firewire1394> i just delete .openttd folder
17:53:29 <Eddi|zuHause> it's not saved, you can't delete it. but if it's too small, it'll be constantly throwing stuff out and recalculating
17:54:13 <firewire1394> so bad , still the same issue
17:54:36 <firewire1394> i don tknow what to do
17:54:36 <Eddi|zuHause> you still haven't given the information i asked for
17:54:45 <firewire1394> it is not about system specs
17:54:55 <firewire1394> every pc should run a 25 year old game
17:55:16 <firewire1394> also you treat me like i'm dumb
17:55:17 <glx> it's not a 25 year old game
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17:55:22 <Eddi|zuHause> if i had rights, i'd kick you right about now
17:55:38 <Eddi|zuHause> that happens a lot :p
17:56:42 <glx> map size would have been a good question too
17:57:04 <Eddi|zuHause> welll, he said title game
17:57:47 <glx> anyway your question was simple
17:59:07 <glx> hmm could be palette animation too, and that's not accessible for title game IIRC
17:59:35 <glx> but usually it's more sensible in FFWD
18:05:00 <LordAro> i don't believe i've ever had any slowdowns when running on arch
18:05:12 <LordAro> i assume broken graphics setup in some way
18:08:43 <andythenorth> failure of internet culture also
18:23:04 <supermop_Home_> I built the junction
18:23:38 <supermop_Home_> the good people of sandkulle can ride the bus
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18:44:20 <andythenorth> what trains do they get?
18:50:24 <andythenorth> after years of using dict or key-value pairs for everything (easier to remember what's where)
18:50:42 <andythenorth> I switched to using tuples of values, because it's less boilerplate
18:50:53 <andythenorth> but it's a lot less flexible for different structures :P
18:54:53 <Eddi|zuHause> use named tuples, get the worst of both worlds? :p
18:55:47 <andythenorth> that's the next level up
19:34:35 <Wolf01> Another money issue... just disable it :D
19:36:20 <Eddi|zuHause> bah, all my stations are overflowing with cargo, and every time i add capacity, it gets worse :/
19:36:51 <andythenorth> sounds like a good OpenTTD clone
19:37:03 <Eddi|zuHause> and i still haven't connected most of the map...
19:39:00 <Wolf01> My stations overflow with cargo and trains don't even make enough money to cover the running costs... I get the most from grains/livestock trucks
19:39:37 <Eddi|zuHause> i got the mod that halves speed of freight wagons, which comes with a cost decrease
19:39:43 <Eddi|zuHause> this certainly helps
19:40:58 <Eddi|zuHause> at least from that moment on i had no trouble staying profitable
20:15:34 <Wolf01> Yeah, an early pax coach costs like 4 steam engines, and the running costs are absurdly high, so if you can't make a good route at first try, you lose
20:16:04 <Wolf01> And how much they can carry? 16 pax?
20:20:32 <Eddi|zuHause> i started out with ships, that doesn't cost a lot and you can expand to a full cargo chain quickly
20:23:57 <Eddi|zuHause> both pax (3 towns) and cargo (steel, tools)
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22:03:19 <supermop_Home_> now I feel compelled to build dirt roads to all of the transmitter towers
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