IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2019-08-12
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00:44:44 *** snail_UES_ is now known as Guest9506
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04:39:56 *** Eddi|zuHause2 has joined #openttd
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10:17:00 <afdal[m]> Neat is there an OTFC-Matrix bridge
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11:19:36 <Samu> what is this "matrix" bridge thing
11:19:50 <Samu> just a bunch of bots standing in chatrooms?
11:21:55 <afdal[m]> No I think there's more to it than that
11:22:31 <afdal[m]> somehow all of the Matrix users in here are being converted to discrete individuals to relay back and forth between IRC and Matrix
11:22:41 <afdal[m]> oh wait that is what you said
11:22:57 <afdal[m]> a bot for every Matrix user
11:23:28 <Wolf01> As long as agent Smith doesn't come here...
11:24:19 <afdal[m]> Never send a human to do a machine's job
11:29:54 *** D-HUND is now known as debdog
11:33:23 <Samu> no offense, but it looks like trash
11:34:01 * LordAro assumes Samu has misunderstood something
11:34:51 <Samu> so if someone doesn't log in for years (person died), the bot stays in the chatroom forever?
11:35:22 <LordAro> in theory, but in practice their accounts expire and get turned off
11:35:36 <LordAro> that's all bouncers though, not just matrix
11:36:00 <LordAro> i.e. Yexo is still here, but hasn't been around since...
11:36:03 <DorpsGek> LordAro: Yexo was last seen in #openttd 6 years, 36 weeks, 3 days, 20 hours, 19 minutes, and 32 seconds ago: <Yexo> <NGC3982> The station glitches are CHIPS related. I adressed it to Andy the other day, and it seems like it's b0rked in some way. <- it's still in the issue tracker for CHIPS, but I haven't had time to look at it yet
11:36:51 <LordAro> went to work for google, i think someone said
11:37:02 <LordAro> regardless, is no longer here
11:37:49 <Samu> hmm, why won't everybody just rely on 1 bot
11:38:01 <Samu> it's just for logging chat?
11:38:13 <LordAro> because then it's unclear who's talking
11:38:30 <LordAro> for one way logging, sure, that's what Webster does
11:38:55 <LordAro> i have seen 1 "collective" bot used for collective bridges
11:39:00 <LordAro> they're universally trash
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11:43:55 <Samu> yeah, trash, what I said, too
11:57:02 <Samu> sounds like a 7-zip/winrar wanna be, it talks to every chat application and isn't a master of any
11:58:33 <Samu> and also has its own specs
11:59:47 <Samu> just a proliferation of bots
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12:27:05 <Samu> 4/88, hmm i service many towns already when i build my first statues
12:40:08 <Afdal> turned off Riot and my Matrix bot is still in here
12:40:20 <Afdal> what the heck that's garbage
12:41:28 <Afdal> that actually has me seriously concerned about the actual trustworthiness of Riot as a secure and private chat tool
12:42:06 <Afdal> so it just leaves bots in after you turn your own client off to mine chats in your name?
12:42:11 <Wolf01> "Secure and private" lol
12:42:46 <Afdal> oh I get it, that's how it maintains a persistent log you can come back in and read later
12:42:57 <Afdal> that's really prejudice against the way IRC works thoguh
12:46:16 <milek7> eh, what's unusual in that?
12:46:38 <milek7> irc isn't very useful without bouncers
12:50:03 <ntsbmvnk> milek7: agree, this is quite common
12:50:12 <ntsbmvnk> I'm "online" 24/7 in IRC
12:50:17 <ntsbmvnk> but rarely actually here
12:51:18 <Wolf01> Bouncers for what? Read chat history? I don't even read logs :P
12:52:10 <ntsbmvnk> If someone messages me here and I'm offline I will miss that entirely
12:52:24 <Wolf01> Then you are using it wrong :P
12:52:48 <ntsbmvnk> there is no wrong way when IRC is a duct tape cryptid
12:53:12 <Wolf01> Servers have message services for that, with bouncers you only achieve that people don't know when you are online or offline
12:53:41 <ntsbmvnk> Wolf01: that could be framed as a benefit for the security concerned
12:53:58 <milek7> and nobody uses memoserv or something
12:54:00 <Wolf01> Then don't use irc if you are afraid of security
12:55:01 <ntsbmvnk> Wolf01: oh, good point. I'll just go into the woods and become a hermit.
12:55:30 <Wolf01> Why the fuck people must react like you?
12:56:15 <Wolf01> If you need security there are better services for that, if you just need to chit-chat irc is fine
12:56:35 <ntsbmvnk> I'm not here for security, I'm here for chitchat
12:58:22 <ntsbmvnk> ultimately it's personal preference
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14:55:09 <FLHerne> Afdal: perma-connected IRC relays have been a thing for as long as IRC itself
14:55:24 <FLHerne> Afdal: Case in point: I wouldn't have seen any of your messages if I wasn't using one :P
14:57:02 <FLHerne> Wolf01: Because sometimes there are interesting discussions when I'm not here, and I'd like to read them?
15:35:06 <LordAro> not all channels have (public) logs either
15:36:03 <Wolf01> That's a point, but for people like me which only join one channel and it happens to have a public log, a bouncer is nonsense
15:36:13 <Wolf01> I can't really see any benefit
15:55:56 <ntsbmvnk> relying on a central source for logs isn't always good
15:56:11 <ntsbmvnk> I'd consider the public logs as a backup to your actual logs from being connected
15:56:25 <ntsbmvnk> also, see channels that have no public logging
16:01:15 <Wolf01> Then I'll miss some discussions, or maybe I'll miss nothing. If I'm not there to partecipate I could read what I can get but that's pointless, like gravedigging a discussion of yesterday
16:03:30 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd
16:30:50 <Eddi|zuHause> i've seen constructive discussions here where each person answered half a day later
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16:41:29 <FLHerne> Wolf01: It's always the same people here, gravedigging yesterday's topic is easy if it wasn't solved then
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17:22:06 <Artea> who needs 10 hours of Diablo 1's Tristam ? :P
18:19:44 <Eddi|zuHause> Wolf01: thing is, it's using up 12GB of ram for me even without any mods
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18:51:22 <Samu> funding construction of buildings in town, is this a "friendly" attitude towards competitors? or selfish?
18:52:03 *** Progman has joined #openttd
18:52:22 <Samu> having a hard time to decide whether I put this behind the "friendly" setting or not
18:54:59 <Eddi|zuHause> Wolf01: i can't say i particularly enjoyed that video
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19:23:50 <Samu> 60334 likes vs 1781 dislikes
19:24:04 <Samu> @calc 60334/(60334+1781)
19:25:18 <Samu> how can ppl dislike this? it hurts
19:36:26 <LordAro> peter1139: how dare you suggest such an obvious untruth
19:36:26 <peter1139> It definitely hurts, yes.
19:37:06 <LordAro> Samu: if you could limit your music recommendations here, that'd be great
19:37:26 <LordAro> it's not that it's off topic (because we don't really care about that), it's more than no one else cares
19:37:43 <peter1139> It's more that the recommendations are shit ;p
19:39:37 <Eddi|zuHause> "from here on, every line uttered in this channel must be on-topic!!"
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19:59:51 * andythenorth would like to publish some docs for Horse 2.0.0 release in September
20:19:26 <frosch123> i did not deploy it
20:20:21 <frosch123> one can probably just ssh-upload the docs to bundles :p
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20:21:19 <andythenorth> I was offered ssh on devzone once...
20:21:23 <andythenorth> I rejected the idea :)
20:22:16 <andythenorth> I can publish on AWS, but it's a hideous url to the bucket, and I don't fancy configuring a domain for it....bundles is nice
20:24:43 <Wolf01> <Eddi|zuHause> Wolf01: i can't say i particularly enjoyed that video <- I laughed my ass off when I saw trucks jumping on the highway
21:03:26 <arikover> andythenorth: #IronHorse 2.0.0 beta 3: When starting on 1860, only the Cheese Bug and a brake van are available.
21:04:58 <andythenorth> oh I wonder why :)
21:06:17 <arikover> andythenorth: Happens with OTTD 1.9.1 as well as master-g27d676e17a
21:06:33 <arikover> andythenorth: Oh. Is that intended?
21:07:05 <andythenorth> will look into it
21:07:11 <andythenorth> probably just randomisation maybe
21:11:43 <andythenorth> more stuff starts appearing in 1861
21:13:59 <Wolf01> I think you should add some default vehicles always available up to introduction of "real" vehicles... not that could be "fixed" by adding another grf, but one should know the specs of every grf
21:14:33 <arikover> Isn't there a way to make related rolling stock available as soon as one is available? I seem to recall some work done recently on this topic...
21:15:10 <arikover> Anyway, it is not that important. Just random introduction dates.
21:15:38 <arikover> Other than that, really nice work.
21:16:02 <andythenorth> not sure how random works at game start
21:16:27 <Eddi|zuHause> iirc there's no random within the first 2 years
21:44:10 <andythenorth> should I try and fix it?
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22:06:09 <arikover> The problem is probably not worth fixing yet... Maybe after Iron Mustang? ;)
22:11:30 <Eddi|zuHause> what do you mean with "fixing"? just set the first generation of wagons to the same date as the first engine
22:14:46 <Samu> andythenorth: do u have a newgrf that lets me disable mail trucks?
22:17:22 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: could work, would need some special casing
22:17:45 <andythenorth> but I already detect last generation in tech tree, prevent expiry
22:17:51 <andythenorth> could detect first generation too
22:21:02 <andythenorth> ok it's on my list for a 2.1
22:21:12 <andythenorth> I don't want to risk adding new bugs for 2.0 now
22:28:07 <Eddi|zuHause> i have no clue what magic goes into your decisions for introduction dates
22:28:42 <Eddi|zuHause> there's probably an easy solution...
22:31:30 <andythenorth> well and no also
22:31:53 <andythenorth> I was going to do 'if gen 1, force all dates to 1860-01-01'
22:32:00 <andythenorth> but that breaks games started before 1860
22:41:07 <Eddi|zuHause> you're gonna have to set a minimum date, put it into the grf description, blame starting earlier than that on the player
22:41:49 <Eddi|zuHause> intro date should probably be a year or two before this minimum date, to prevent starting with too low reliability
22:42:32 * andythenorth looks if game start date is in global newgrf vars
22:43:05 <Eddi|zuHause> why would that be needed?
22:43:24 <andythenorth> I could conditionally handle the intro dates
22:43:41 <Eddi|zuHause> that sounds like the wrong solution
22:51:23 <Wolf01> <Eddi|zuHause> you're gonna have to set a minimum date, put it into the grf description, blame starting earlier than that on the player <- or put a horse cart multicargo introduced in year 1
22:52:09 <Eddi|zuHause> keep in mind there will be players that want to start in like 1800 with horse carts and ships that want to play until trains become available
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23:01:58 <Samu> i want to "play" without mail trucks
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23:26:30 <Samu> interesting orders railwai uses
23:27:18 <Samu> conditional orders, go back to the station and load at least 1% cargo
23:28:12 <Samu> loads something instead of travelling empty
23:28:39 <Samu> kinda abusive, but smart
23:31:39 <Samu> i wish not to resort to these tactics though
23:32:40 <Samu> gonna try implement some way to detect wether towns are being serviced already by competitors
23:33:24 <Samu> I kinda have it already, the "is friendly" option
23:35:37 <Samu> doesn't build stations near competitors stations coverage area, but it still tries to service the town, which might be a bad idea
23:35:59 <Samu> especially vs ais that use full load
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