IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2019-08-03
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00:30:31 <Eddi|zuHause> hm, i'm 3/4 building a cloverleaf, and debating whether i should do the 4th leaf or do a half-direct turn instead
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00:40:34 <Eddi|zuHause> not that building a cloverleaf in C:S is difficult enough as it is
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08:14:26 <Beerbelott> Through the content manager, I just downloaded AIAI which has SuperLib v39 as a dependency. No upgrade available.
08:14:26 <Beerbelott> If I come back to the content downloader, it says it has upgrades for me. If I select them all, it selects *all* remaining versions of SuperLib (6, 13, 27, 36, 38, 40).
08:15:15 <Beerbelott> I would understand SuperLib 40 to be an upgrade (although since packages specify specific dependencies, might not they be incompatible with another, newer, version?)
08:15:31 <Beerbelott> But I don't get why *all* of them are selected + their own dependencies
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09:06:36 <LordAro> Beerbelott: that does sound a bit odd
09:07:10 <Beerbelott> I have reproduced the problem by stripping all content in my content_downloaded/ai folder
09:07:20 <Beerbelott> (and its subdir library)
09:07:46 <Beerbelott> Could you try to do the same, download AIAI again then come back and check for upgrades?
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09:12:48 <Beerbelott> Shall I fill an issue up?
09:15:23 <Beerbelott> I am unsure of the expected behaviour, though. Since AIAI required SuperLib v39 and no other package required v40, should v40 be offered as an upgrade or not?
09:17:27 <LordAro> maybe it's getting confused and just selecting all versions when it can't find a specific version
09:17:41 <LordAro> i'm not convinced "download all versions" should be the behaviour though
09:18:52 <Beerbelott> Yeah that part of the mechanism goes haywire
09:19:41 <Beerbelott> But still, having a specific dependency on v39 (as specified in the AI configuration, and correctly detected on initial download), since *nothing* depends on v40, I guess it should not be loaded
09:19:51 <Beerbelott> AS I guess AIAI won't ever load v40 anyway
09:19:57 <Beerbelott> hence downloading it will be useless
09:20:17 <Beerbelott> ... unless Squirrel interprets versions as ">="?
09:22:12 <LordAro> it won't be squirrel, it'll be OTTD
09:23:31 <Beerbelott> Hence it seems version comparison is strict
09:23:44 <LordAro> trusting the wiki is brave :p
09:24:01 <Beerbelott> hehe well that's all I could find...
09:24:18 <Beerbelott> I'm rather new at either scripting, AI, Squirrel language and all that
09:24:29 <Beerbelott> No even started and I hit a bug. *sighs* ;)
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09:49:17 <LordAro> Beerbelott: new users are the best at finding bugs
09:49:27 <LordAro> because they have a tendency to do things no one's thought of before :p
10:03:41 <andythenorth> James103 is the best at finding bugs :P
10:25:56 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on issue #7679: Content downloader brings unrequired "upgrades" up https://git.io/fj9xr
10:29:31 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on pull request #7666: Add: [Win32] Select MIDI device by port name https://git.io/fj9xo
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10:57:41 <Samu> milek7: tested some stuff yet for me?
11:04:00 <Samu> could someone / milek7 test #7661 in multiplayer? I have no means to test it here
11:05:12 <Samu> test whether the interactive random range is multiplayer syncable, it happens when checking the delay for when the next AI starts
11:05:24 <Samu> requires start date not being 0
11:05:56 <Samu> in other words, check whether all AIs start simultaneously
11:09:18 <Samu> jesus fucking christ, i really need my system...
11:28:17 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro merged pull request #7612: Feature: Allow showing Newspaper and Ticker messages in parallel https://git.io/fj0BN
11:36:14 <andythenorth> how do I stuff the text stack correctly in NML? :(
11:36:33 <andythenorth> I have two values for power I want to display in buy menu extra text
11:36:43 <andythenorth> looks like they both have to be in register 0x100
11:36:57 <andythenorth> they're in the 100-9999 range
11:38:01 <andythenorth> did Eddi|zuHause fix his computer and come back yet? :)
11:39:05 <Eddi|zuHause> i have a textstack example somewhere
11:39:44 <andythenorth> looks like it has some built in NML magic to read specific bytes
11:41:09 <Eddi|zuHause> you put the values in registers 0x100, 0x101, 0x102 etc, shifted by 16 bit each
11:41:53 <Eddi|zuHause> so one in 0x100 (lower word), one in 0x100 (higher word), one in 0x101 (lower word), one in 0x101 (higher word), etc.
11:42:41 <Eddi|zuHause> that is, unless you want to display Weird Stuff (tm) which might consume one byte or one dword
11:43:12 <andythenorth> POWER seems to consume two bytes
11:43:34 <Eddi|zuHause> i'd much rather have a "real" stack, where every time you write to that magic register, it acts as calling SetDParam, so you just write to the same register again
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11:45:33 <andythenorth> STORE_TEMP(${consist.power_by_railtype['RAIL']}, 0x100), STORE_TEMP(${consist.power_by_railtype['ELRL']} << 16, 0x100)
11:45:51 <Eddi|zuHause> must be in the same STORE_TEMP
11:46:41 <Eddi|zuHause> STORE_TEMP(A | (B << 16))
11:46:58 <Eddi|zuHause> parentheses might be redundant
11:47:08 <andythenorth> easier to read though :P
11:47:50 <andythenorth> now displayed power values respect player setting
12:18:09 <DorpsGek> andythenorth: 0.997198879552
12:18:18 <andythenorth> if I round that, it's 100% :P
12:55:14 <Eddi|zuHause> you can also round 95% to 100% :p
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12:56:08 <Eddi|zuHause> you can round any value between 95% and 150% to 100% (which is a weirdly asymmetric interval)
12:58:32 <michi_cc> Eddi|zuHause: Why 149% but not 51%? If you treat it as 1.49, 0.51 rounds just as well.
13:04:08 <Eddi|zuHause> michi_cc: because you round to 1 significant figure, and 51 rounded to 1 figure is 50
13:21:15 <andythenorth> 1 angle left to draw :P
13:41:14 <peter1139> But you can't round Minecraft.
13:44:00 * andythenorth 'finishing' things is not more rewarding than starting them
13:45:33 <andythenorth> ok so it's time for a beta
13:45:37 <andythenorth> does that reset the changelog?
13:46:09 <andythenorth> recent changelog entries have all been for alpha releases
13:46:20 <andythenorth> and detail changes against previous alpha
13:46:35 <andythenorth> but 2.0.0 should detail all the changes since 1.9.0?
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14:16:26 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, but you can leave out smaller changes that are "fix previous alpha"
15:26:55 <andythenorth> do I need to set visual effect (steam engine smoke) positions per angle?
15:27:08 <andythenorth> seems that aligning for one angle makes them wrong for another
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16:30:14 <andythenorth> I vaguely recall something frosch said about it
16:30:36 <andythenorth> did we change the length of vehicles somewhere compared to original TTD?
16:46:57 <peter1139> I don't know but I have a cold beer.
16:57:34 <Eddi|zuHause> bah... everybody is sick all of a sudden...
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17:05:22 <LordAro> peter1139: i merely have a beer
17:05:36 <peter1139> This one is a lager so required chilling.
17:05:53 <peter1139> Although it's a "craft" lager so not so bad.
17:06:01 <peter1139> It's not really craft though, it's just marketting and pricing.
17:06:10 <peter1139> It came from a supermarket, after all.
17:09:47 <Arveen> open beer tycoon deluxe
17:21:24 <peter1139> That doesn't make sense.
17:21:40 <andythenorth> tycoon beer open delucxe
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18:04:01 <Eddi|zuHause> peter1139: "craft" is "we have less than 500 employees"?
18:17:36 <nnyby> hmmm, it seems like it should be possible to run a dedicated openttd server without a graphics set, right? i'm trying to run an openttd server on my new freedombox but i'm getting a "Failed to find graphics set" error.
18:18:01 <peter1139> No, it's not possible.
18:18:39 <nnyby> alright, i mean, it's not a big deal to just download OpenGFX for this. i was just surprised.
18:32:53 <LordAro> nnyby: there is a NoGFX lurking around somewhere, for this purpose
18:33:18 <LordAro> i have to admit, i don't recall the reason why the baseset is necessary, something to do with the number of sprites?
18:36:24 <Eddi|zuHause> iirc it's some sprites needed for default map generator
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18:36:39 * andythenorth considers reading effect vehicle code
18:36:44 <Eddi|zuHause> which are treated like a heightmap
18:36:51 <peter1139> Collision detection was the original reason.
18:37:06 <peter1139> That and the map generator sprites which barely anyone uses now.
18:37:23 <LordAro> ...collision detection?
18:37:34 <andythenorth> snail_UES_: have you successfully positioned smoke on vehicles that aren't 8/8?
18:37:48 <peter1139> Sprite sizes used to set up vehicle position hash, which was/is used by collision detection.
18:37:55 <snail_UES_> I don’t have locomotives that long...
18:39:01 <Eddi|zuHause> peter1139: that can't be right, as sprite sizes are not enforced between basesets, and would lead to desync?
18:39:13 <peter1139> I did say "original" reason.
18:39:42 <LordAro> which are the map generator sprites though?
18:39:54 <snail_UES_> andythenorth: in my scale, 8/8 corresponds to vehicles ~17.5m long, and it’s very rare for European steamers to be longer than that
18:40:04 <peter1139> They are the ones used by the map generator :p
18:40:09 <snail_UES_> now, US steamers are a different cup of tea :) (big boy)
18:40:16 * LordAro slaps peter1139 with a large trout
18:40:20 <andythenorth> snail_UES_: I mean < 8/8
18:40:21 <peter1139> Do you want me to actually look up the numbers?
18:40:30 <peter1139> Cos I really don't think that's something I'm going to do.
18:40:42 <snail_UES_> oh, smaller than 8/8? sure, all my NG steamers are shorter than that
18:41:00 <snail_UES_> I could even place steam when the engine is driving cab-forward
18:41:09 <andythenorth> reliably, for all angles?
18:41:21 <snail_UES_> yeah, the effect is pretty good IMO
18:41:43 <snail_UES_> of course it took a long time to test it and place it correctly
18:42:18 * peter1139 ponders tending to the slow-cooked pork ribs.
18:42:38 <snail_UES_> andythenorth: m4nfo has a command like “effect(steam(4))” to do that
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18:42:51 <andythenorth> must be vehicle offsets are wrong
18:42:56 <andythenorth> I changed them all recently
18:42:57 <snail_UES_> where “4” is the position of the steam puffs and it’s an integer between 1 and 16
18:43:10 <snail_UES_> yep, steam position depends on the vehicle offsets
18:43:16 <andythenorth> anyone know what I'm _supposed_ to align vehicles to,?
18:43:37 <snail_UES_> I align them so that they’re centered in stations
18:43:39 <andythenorth> I have reset offsets like 100 times
18:43:50 <snail_UES_> so that they don’t fall off the tracks when they stop at the station edges
18:44:13 <snail_UES_> also, they don’t “jump” when I reverse the direction of a stopped train
18:44:22 <snail_UES_> the latter is very tricky and requires lots of tedious work
18:48:00 <andythenorth> I have no idea why these offsets are so wrong
18:50:04 <andythenorth> I 'fixed' them when you reported the last bug with them :P
18:50:16 <andythenorth> I changed them to match original base set sprite positions
18:50:25 <andythenorth> but now they're wrong again :x
18:51:43 <andythenorth> unrelated snail_UES_ are you still using mac os?
18:55:12 <andythenorth> self-compiled, or official build?
18:55:14 <snail_UES_> but high sierra. I’m not upgrading because my drawing program (graphic converter) is still 32 bit :p
18:55:27 <snail_UES_> I’m now using 1.9.1, but I can compile with no issues
18:55:44 <andythenorth> I was curious about performance on Mojave
18:58:10 <snail_UES_> not upgrading any time soon...
18:58:24 <snail_UES_> even because, every time I upgrade, programs such as MatLab stop working :P
18:58:37 <snail_UES_> and I’d have to find and *ahem* download a new version all the time...
19:10:42 <DorpsGek> Samu: milek7 was last seen in #openttd 20 hours, 3 minutes, and 7 seconds ago: <milek7> i can test something on my ryzen later
19:22:40 <andythenorth> sometimes I wonder if I make newgrfs on crack
19:25:33 <andythenorth> the previous values would be more correct w.r.t original trains, and would put smoke in the right place
19:34:12 <andythenorth> maybe I should take crack before playing :P
19:34:18 <andythenorth> then it will all be fine :D
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19:58:26 <Samu> there is a "probably not a problem" with #7661 when loading old savegames
20:00:47 <Samu> _next_competitor_start is loaded from the old save, and no conversion occurs. Part of me thinks it doesn't have to be converted
20:02:13 <Samu> it still does what it's supposed to do, but it was set in a different manner than what I have now.
20:02:50 <Samu> i guess it doesn't need to change
20:08:43 <Samu> my other part says: just reset it to 0 on load and let the new behaviour kick in
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21:00:28 <Beerbelott> LordAro: Saw your comment, and I happened to have noticed the exact same spot flagging packages for upgrade
21:01:15 <Beerbelott> As I stated before, the docs clearly state that the import mechanism shall specify the exact library version required by a script
21:01:47 <Beerbelott> Would it brake something if the version check was strict all of a sudden? How could it break stuff?
21:02:26 <Beerbelott> I noticed the week "unique_id" check... which is based on the first 4 characters of the short name of a script
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21:15:08 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Berbe commented on issue #7679: Content downloader brings unrequired "upgrades" up https://git.io/fjHkf
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