IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2019-08-02
⏴ go to previous day
00:18:00 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai
00:46:07 <Eddi|zuHause> i saw the previous storage enhancements, not the very latest... can't play currently
00:51:53 <Eddi|zuHause> ok, this is silly... i wanted to try this water outlet to make a lake... but i can't control its output rate directly, so it either floods everything or the lake dries out again quickly
01:32:51 *** tokai|noir has joined #openttd
01:32:52 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai|noir
01:56:58 <Eddi|zuHause> also, my zoo is definitely too small
03:09:18 *** Thedarkb-X40 has joined #openttd
05:16:04 *** Wormnest has joined #openttd
07:14:42 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] James103 commented on issue #7646: Random map generation failure crashes the game (dedicated server). https://git.io/fj9wn
07:36:44 *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd
07:44:12 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd
09:06:59 *** arikover has joined #openttd
09:19:56 <LordAro> someone should really look at some of these savegames
09:20:07 <LordAro> apparently there are a lot of them
09:29:22 <andythenorth> 'someone should really' is a common thing :)
09:29:27 <andythenorth> I noticed the same though
09:29:39 <andythenorth> variation between master and stable?
09:29:50 <andythenorth> or did I misunderstand the reports?
09:34:05 *** Wormnest has joined #openttd
09:34:24 <LordAro> andythenorth: i do say it a lot, for sure :p
09:49:50 *** tycoondemon has joined #openttd
09:50:29 <LordAro> not like i have the "family" excuse either
09:53:09 <andythenorth> grinding savegames does not appeal much to me :P
09:54:05 <DorpsGek> andythenorth: 714000
09:54:42 <andythenorth> turns out I'll happilly grind 714k pixels :P
09:54:49 <andythenorth> probably more like 1m, all in
09:55:10 <andythenorth> that's like 1m clicks, my trackpad is getting well-used
10:24:56 <Samu> what's the fastest sort in number of operations?
10:25:23 <Samu> for pathfinder purposes/script opcode
10:26:18 *** arikover has joined #openttd
10:37:19 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd
10:38:42 <andythenorth> is Firefox over?
10:38:45 <andythenorth> it really just doesn't work
10:39:24 <andythenorth> I constantly have to quit it due to non-responsive windows
10:41:21 <arikover> It may be OS-related: I'm not experiencing such problems at the moment (Ubu 18.04)
10:42:04 *** sergei_ has joined #openttd
10:42:53 <andythenorth> might be the Mac build only
10:44:01 *** qwebirc28671 has joined #openttd
10:48:25 <arikover> Surely you already tried every fix in the book already?
10:49:24 <andythenorth> I have not tried any
10:49:36 <andythenorth> 'reset to factory defaults' all that crap
10:50:41 * andythenorth deletes the only two extensions installed
10:51:17 <andythenorth> FF is a turkey, I only use it to segregate certain logged in services from general browsing
10:51:30 <andythenorth> Chrome for general internet
10:51:36 <andythenorth> Safari for web dev :P
10:51:55 <andythenorth> but ha ha, IE will be available for Mac soon (again)
10:52:35 <arikover> Well now you just have to wait for IE, I guess...
10:53:15 <andythenorth> looks like dev build is available
10:53:43 <andythenorth> hmm time to go to office
11:09:47 *** sergei_ has joined #openttd
11:16:11 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd
11:22:33 *** Wormnest has joined #openttd
11:39:00 <Samu> how do I make my save data be compatible with an earlier version of my AI?
11:39:26 <Samu> but it doesn't want to load it
11:40:48 <Samu> i have AI version 12, it saves data as version 12, and it won't load on version 11, even though I know it is compatible
12:05:15 <sergei_> Hi guys! What AI would you recommend?
13:38:20 *** Thedarkb-X40 has joined #openttd
14:20:55 <andythenorth> I am using animated red-black pixel for rear lights on trains
14:21:13 <andythenorth> that's not going to work eh
14:21:44 <Eddi|zuHause> depends on your definition of "work"
14:24:45 <andythenorth> well for [unknow proportion] of player base, full animation needs to be off
14:24:56 <andythenorth> which leads to the pixel being frequently invisible
14:25:33 <planetmaker> why... would they be invisible for those?
14:25:51 <planetmaker> as in not changinge colour? I guess that's the definition of "animation on/off"
14:26:17 <andythenorth> they frequently get stuck on the black part of the cycle
14:26:26 <Eddi|zuHause> so, you want it to be blinking, but fear that for some people who have animation off, it'll be in the "black" state?
14:26:32 <planetmaker> with animation=off I'm not concerned about that
14:26:46 <andythenorth> mostly I don't see them, because I can't use full animation
14:26:52 <andythenorth> so I was shipping bugs for months
14:27:02 <andythenorth> maybe I animate them myself
14:27:08 <planetmaker> animation not happening with animation=off sounds like "works as designed"
14:27:20 <andythenorth> yes, my point is, should I no use it
14:27:23 <Eddi|zuHause> there's two red blinking cycles, so try the other one?
14:27:47 <andythenorth> I only know of one, the crossing cycle
14:27:52 <andythenorth> there's the fire cycle also
14:28:07 <Eddi|zuHause> but there's two crossing lights that alternate, or not?
14:28:09 <Samu> creating a list of vehicles that go to a station can be too slow when there are already too many vehicles in the world
14:28:17 <planetmaker> I don't think so @ eddi
14:28:20 <andythenorth> they are drawn one starting on black, one on red
14:28:29 <Samu> as slow as spike burst stalls
14:28:44 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, use the one that starts on red
14:29:08 <andythenorth> ok so this is a problem local to me
14:29:28 <andythenorth> I frequently turn animation on and off for $valid reasons
14:29:35 <andythenorth> most players probably don't
14:29:45 <Samu> noticeable for example with 15 AIs
14:30:47 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: "red cycle" clearly points to two entries there
14:31:17 <planetmaker> yes... two colours. _You say each pixel there is a separate cycle?
14:31:30 <Eddi|zuHause> one is red/black and one is black/red
14:31:31 <andythenorth> they're timed differently, two cycles
14:31:35 <planetmaker> and as in we have 7 fire cycles
14:31:41 <planetmaker> with that definition...yes
14:31:44 <andythenorth> natural confusion
14:32:25 <andythenorth> I won't animate them myself :D
14:32:54 <Eddi|zuHause> why are they animated rear lights in the first place?
14:33:11 <andythenorth> for certain cases, not others
14:33:15 <andythenorth> and because I could :P
14:33:16 <planetmaker> trains I see passing have no blinking rear lights :)
14:33:33 <andythenorth> I could just use solid red
14:33:34 <Eddi|zuHause> i mean, which real case are you modelling?
14:33:51 <andythenorth> US / UK non-built-in rear lights from about 1970,
14:33:57 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause, drunk driver hitting switches randomly :P
14:34:39 <andythenorth> but it could easily just be solid red
14:36:48 * andythenorth uses paint bucket
14:36:50 <Eddi|zuHause> but, back to your "animation off" problem, i think it should be solvable by using the other palette entry
14:37:33 <andythenorth> it should be solid red with animation off
14:37:37 <andythenorth> it's just frequently not
14:37:43 <andythenorth> but that's local to me
14:38:00 <Eddi|zuHause> it'll only be a problem if you switch it on and off
16:35:49 <Eddi|zuHause> hm, my garbage trucks create a huge pile of traffic jam
16:42:42 <Eddi|zuHause> ... and i can't solve it until the landfills have been cleared out
16:47:34 <andythenorth> my peasants in Warcraft kept getting stuck
16:47:47 <andythenorth> I had to destroy town buildings for them
16:53:31 <Eddi|zuHause> why hasn't there been a warcraft 4?
16:59:06 *** Wormnest has joined #openttd
17:03:36 *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd
17:12:16 *** frosch123 has joined #openttd
17:46:49 <Eddi|zuHause> i was just thinking "they probably just make a remake of 3"
17:47:40 <Samu> my AI is now valuatorless
17:48:29 <Eddi|zuHause> so... i built a freight port... and it immediately can't handle the amount of trucks trying to come in
17:52:19 <Samu> just finished codechanging this to not use valuators, I'm unsure if I like the results yet, must test.
18:11:23 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: sounds like OpenTTD
18:18:05 <Eddi|zuHause> i now upgraded to 3 ports, maybe it'll distribute them, or just spawn more trucks
18:26:02 <Samu> I'm already thinking of my next AI tournament
18:27:23 <Samu> in groups of insert a big number up to 15 AIs will fight in the same map
18:27:46 <Samu> i'm not sure yet for how long I will run it
18:29:10 <Samu> probably will be in groups of 12, since there's 48 AIs
18:29:34 <Samu> too bad I can't setup 48 AIs :(
18:33:42 <Samu> my AI frametime is less spiky, but the average ms have increased
18:34:00 <Samu> the AI also feels delayed
18:36:31 <Samu> at least the max ops is not decreasing all the way down to 500
18:36:36 *** y2kboy23 has joined #openttd
18:56:12 <Eddi|zuHause> ah no, title was broken
18:58:18 <Samu> will variable max ops be a thing in openttd?
18:59:09 <Samu> the variation is cpu dependant
18:59:58 <Samu> but makes things irreproducible
19:01:40 <Samu> aww snap, got 500 max ops just now, t.t
19:03:12 <Samu> the damn thing is over sensitive, decrease adjustments are too sharp
19:04:19 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd
19:06:15 <Samu> this is a situation where I need my system to find out what's taking too much time
19:07:02 <acklen> you need a server farm
19:08:45 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nikolas commented on pull request #7086: Change #6173: Update SDL driver to use SDL 2.0 https://git.io/fj99c
19:11:18 <Samu> 141 days needed to pathfind with 28 tries
19:11:35 <Samu> considering there's 15 AIs, this ain't bad
19:12:10 <Samu> the default 10000 would probably take longer
19:37:33 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/website] glx22 commented on issue #96: www.openttd.org always shows "Login" instead of "Logout (account name)" https://git.io/fj995
19:41:30 <Samu> a button or hotkey to hide all open windows, to peak at the main world
19:41:52 <Samu> pressing it again, brings all windows back to their exact place
19:42:06 <Samu> some sort of "peak desktop" for openttd
19:44:05 <Samu> this monitor is just too small for my liking
19:58:01 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd
20:31:03 *** sergei_ has joined #openttd
20:33:42 *** arikover has joined #openttd
20:34:38 *** Progman has joined #openttd
21:04:47 *** Alkel_U3 has joined #openttd
21:19:04 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro approved pull request #7677: Fix #7672: more than 32 resolutions may be available https://git.io/fj9QZ
21:19:10 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro merged pull request #7677: Fix #7672: more than 32 resolutions may be available https://git.io/fj9Bj
21:21:54 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nikolas updated pull request #7086: Change #6173: Update SDL driver to use SDL 2.0 https://git.io/fhamZ
21:24:28 <Samu> didn't expect single-thread performance to be worse than mine
21:25:55 <glx> of course a celeron is bad
21:26:10 <glx> it was already bad when it appeared IIRC :)
21:36:13 <LordAro> it's over 10 years old
21:36:36 <LordAro> and yes, it was the bargin basement of intel CPUs when it was released
21:37:02 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro requested changes for pull request #7658: Add: 'getsysdate' console command https://git.io/fj9QK
21:39:12 <andythenorth> is it as bad as mine?
21:39:23 <andythenorth> I can get OpenTTD to use 98% of CPU whilst paused
21:39:52 <andythenorth> it ran my battery flat in about 40 minutes this morning :P
21:40:35 <glx> 98% of CPU just to refresh the screen ?
21:41:39 <andythenorth> actually I exaggerate
21:41:46 <andythenorth> it's only 49% of CPU whilst paused
21:41:55 <andythenorth> time to buy a new laptop?
21:42:30 <andythenorth> it's 98% if I unpause, and put the map in the corner
21:43:15 <andythenorth> do we need to drop support for older hardware?
21:44:52 <milek7> btw. is that rate counter out of range or something? ;P
21:45:41 <andythenorth> it can be topped out
21:46:29 <glx> and these high values in fast forward are not really relevant ;)
21:46:56 <glx> it's more important to have the "right" values at normal speed
21:47:32 <andythenorth> I'd just like my battery back :P
21:47:37 <andythenorth> and yes 33fps would be nice
21:47:40 <andythenorth> 16fps is a bit laggy
21:48:07 <andythenorth> but my laptop is is getting old
22:00:29 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/website] TrueBrain commented on issue #96: www.openttd.org always shows "Login" instead of "Logout (account name)" https://git.io/fj9Q9
22:04:41 <Samu> openttd needs a benchmark :p
22:12:04 <milek7> yeah, it isn't that fast on fullscreen ;)
22:14:41 <milek7> speaking of benchmarks, i have 15fps on wentbourne.sav ;P
22:14:44 <Samu> AI manages stable 10000 on trashy celeron
22:16:12 <glx> wentbourne doesn't count I think
22:17:38 <Samu> let me open wentbourne.save
22:18:49 <andythenorth> are we testing recent master here, or 1.9.x?
22:18:58 <andythenorth> and debug builds, or prod?
22:19:59 <andythenorth> ok, so with master, I can get 20fps
22:20:04 <andythenorth> and 20fps on ffwd
22:20:15 <andythenorth> map size is 64x64
22:20:36 <andythenorth> no vehicles, no AI
22:21:05 <andythenorth> it's from like 2018
22:21:08 <andythenorth> so it's really old
22:22:08 <andythenorth> it's a crap chip
22:22:24 <glx> because there's an apple on it
22:23:17 <andythenorth> value for money 0
22:23:43 <andythenorth> and not good enough to run OpenTTD
22:24:23 <andythenorth> if I turn off full animation, the same map gets about 33fps
22:24:56 <andythenorth> and about 300-400fps on ffwd
22:25:54 <Samu> wentbourne.sav gets 4.9 - 5 fps
22:26:19 <andythenorth> with 1.9.1 the same map gets about 16fps
22:26:30 <Samu> oh, but im on my custom build
22:26:49 <andythenorth> ffwd gets on 1.9.1 gets about 100-200fps
22:27:07 <andythenorth> if I turn off full animation, the same map gets about 33fps
22:27:13 <glx> IIRC the cpu is not the main issue on OSX :)
22:27:19 <andythenorth> ffwd gets around 2k fps
22:27:29 <glx> there's something weird with the screen drawing
22:27:44 <andythenorth> so 1.9.1 is slower to draw full animation, at normal speed
22:27:52 <andythenorth> but runs ffwd much much faster
22:28:04 <andythenorth> and generally holds up frame rates in normal game play with animation off
22:28:13 <andythenorth> whereas master drops to 15-16fps in gameplay
22:28:32 <andythenorth> it's all lolz :)
22:31:17 <milek7> maybe try to bisect it?
22:31:34 <andythenorth> I will once I've finished Iron Horse 2 beta
22:31:46 <andythenorth> 2 trains left to draw :P
22:32:02 <glx> until you add more trains ;)
22:38:21 <Samu> only 5 downloads, 1 was me :(
22:40:35 <milek7> Samu: i managed to find even slower cpu ;)
22:41:05 <milek7> 60fps on ffwd on fresh map
22:55:19 <Samu> test my build on that with some AI(s)
22:55:49 <Samu> look at those max ops if you can
22:57:47 *** Maarten has joined #openttd
22:57:52 <Samu> oh, dont tell me that's a 32-bit cpu
23:00:39 <milek7> yes, it's on 32 bit OS
23:00:59 *** Progman has joined #openttd
23:02:29 <Samu> I don't know why Alberth commit got there
23:07:35 <milek7> i can test something on my ryzen later
23:59:28 *** andythenorth has left #openttd
continue to next day ⏵
