IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2019-07-27
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01:00:39 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TTrebron opened pull request #7669: Fix #7655: Decrease buttons in cheat window do not work properly https://git.io/fjy4F
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02:20:38 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 approved pull request #7669: Fix #7655: Decrease buttons in cheat window do not work properly https://git.io/fjyBu
05:56:05 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] James103 commented on pull request #7589: Change: Always apply inflation from 1920 to 2090, no matter the game start year. https://git.io/fjyR5
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08:37:44 <LordAro> it's very wet outside
08:41:31 <peter1138> It's damp but not currently raining.
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09:36:41 <andythenorth> why is there so much latency on the buttons for max map height cheat ?
09:37:23 <andythenorth> it's about 1s on 1.9.1 and 2s with the fix applied from 7669
09:38:06 <andythenorth> (latency is from mousedown to button triggering)
09:46:34 <LordAro> i can't imagine it would change significantly with the #7669 change
09:46:45 <LordAro> there is a noticable delay for me though
09:46:56 <LordAro> probably dependent on what clicking the button is actually doing
09:48:08 <nielsm> so yes if you want to change it, click the number and type in a new one :
09:48:22 <LordAro> why is reloading grf data necessary?
09:48:37 <nielsm> I think it's a grf parameter and the grf may change behaviour based on it?
09:49:03 <andythenorth> it's a weird cheat
09:49:30 <nielsm> it seems very much like a thing that should be scenario editor only
09:49:42 <LordAro> well there's a reason it's a cheat :p
09:50:21 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro merged pull request #7669: Fix #7655: Decrease buttons in cheat window do not work properly https://git.io/fjy4F
09:51:08 <LordAro> does #7635 seem like a hacky workaround to anyone else?
09:51:08 * andythenorth testing SDL 2 PR
09:52:25 <andythenorth> given that ottd mac performance is currently weirdly variable, not sure I can give meaningful feedback on SDL 2 :)
09:52:28 <andythenorth> but it compiles and runs
09:53:37 <nielsm> well if you can make a mac build with sdl video driver that may shed some light on whether it's the cocoa driver that causes the performance issues
09:53:58 <andythenorth> I should video record how odd it is
09:54:06 <nielsm> since the sdl driver does do several things different
09:54:13 <andythenorth> and the strange behaviour where opening a news message window restores performance
09:54:30 <andythenorth> which I thought was co-incidence, but is entirely reproducible
09:55:08 <nielsm> is it possible it's related to the real-time vs game ticks split?
09:55:24 <andythenorth> I could video record 1.9.1 running on ffwd in the corner of the map too
09:56:10 <andythenorth> it's never less than 3000fps
09:56:14 <andythenorth> and peaking at 9999fps
09:56:36 <andythenorth> CPU use is about 80% of one thread unit
09:56:45 <andythenorth> auto-save barely affects it
09:56:55 <nielsm> ffwd should usually max out one core
09:57:29 * andythenorth builds master for comparison
09:58:11 <LordAro> shouldn't need to build master, just run with the other video drivers
09:58:37 <andythenorth> I have some other patches applied, so I want a clean master :)
10:01:30 <andythenorth> by comparison, current master running on ffwd
10:01:37 <andythenorth> is stable around 70-80fps
10:04:14 <andythenorth> interestingly it's only pegging CPU thread unit at 60%
10:04:38 <andythenorth> playing actual games recently, CPU will often rise to 100% during normal gameplay without ffwd
10:05:43 <andythenorth> on much older mac systems (early i7) it used to be around 30-40%, and more recently it is usually around 60%
10:07:06 <andythenorth> so for this stable 70-80fps result
10:07:38 <andythenorth> opening a news window will cause the simulation rate to spike to 3000-7000fps
10:07:56 <andythenorth> then settle back around 300-400fps
10:08:16 <andythenorth> closing the news window, it drops back to the stable 70-80fps
10:08:26 <andythenorth> I should live stream on twitch or something :P
10:43:17 <LordAro> there's no way i can test for it on my linux install, i don't have RTL support :)
11:07:32 <Wolf01> <LordAro> it's very wet outside <- I've seen frogs and fishes swimming in air, but as soon as I tried to take a picture they fled
11:48:36 <Wolf01> So, F is the most played game I have in my library (excluding idle clicker games), with about 150 hours more than the second one
12:01:06 * andythenorth reads about F again
12:01:10 <andythenorth> mostly the cargo chains :P
12:01:42 <Wolf01> Now lunch and then I'll put another bunch of hours into F :P
12:02:11 <Eddi|zuHause> i still didn't get sparked by F
12:02:57 <Samu> anyone review my PR #7661 yet?
12:03:40 <Samu> if that goes through, it makes some of my other PRs unneeded
12:05:36 <Samu> #7515 and #7486 become pointless
12:06:08 <Samu> stuff involving "start_date"
12:06:42 <Samu> there's another one, already in master, that could also be reverted
12:10:24 <Samu> some of peter1138 commits as well, involving "start_date" workarounds
12:11:09 <Samu> but #7661 does take care of them
12:13:17 <Eddi|zuHause> highest game i have is 2000 hours, and 2nd highest 700
12:13:49 <Eddi|zuHause> (eu4 and stellaris)
12:14:05 <Eddi|zuHause> then it flattens out at about 150 hours for most games
12:14:06 <Samu> oh, commit 1 of #7486 still needed, only 2 and 3 are not
12:14:39 <Eddi|zuHause> and then there's single-playthrough games with 4-10 hours
12:15:18 <Eddi|zuHause> and then there's "haven't really gotten around to it" games...
12:30:19 <Arveen> hmm, trying to download the latest nightly gives me a nginx gateway timeout
12:31:02 <LordAro> sorry, which type of download, i mean
12:31:25 <LordAro> which download did you select?
12:32:32 <Arveen> i get an "504 Gateway Time-out" after like 20 seconds waiting
12:32:43 <Eddi|zuHause> probably a bad mirror
12:32:45 <LordAro> has ipv6 broken again?
12:33:06 <LordAro> are the mirrors even used anymore? i thought it was all on AWS
12:34:19 <LordAro> tried from my vps - curl <foo> 504 timeout, curl -4 <foo> works
12:36:19 <Arveen> and now it works - weird heh
12:37:00 <LordAro> now i've got a 504 with ipv4...
12:39:19 <LordAro> is AWS having issues, i wonder?
12:39:51 <LordAro> status page says everything is fine, but those are usually meaningless anyway
13:10:44 <Eddi|zuHause> so... it's somewhat like "broken mirror" after all?
13:23:01 <Eddi|zuHause> why do some "games" in steam not have the entry for "assign categories"?
13:54:03 <Eddi|zuHause> ah... it doesn't show up in the right click menu, but there's another entry on the right of the "game" description page which has it
13:57:47 <Wolf01> Maybe they are starting the upgrade to auto-category as they have announced?
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14:15:22 <Samu> make them crashing road vehicles to also crash them
14:15:32 <Samu> or at least have a chance to crash
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14:36:24 <andythenorth> croque monsieur?
14:49:47 <Samu> "literal Enigma cover band."..
14:50:33 <LordAro> Samu: your mistake is reading youtube comments at all
14:53:23 <Samu> Enigma is a German musical project founded in 1990 by Romanian-German musician and producer Michael Cretu.[1]
14:54:02 <Samu> Delerium is a Canadian New Age ambient electronic musical duo that formed in 1987, originally as a side project of the influential industrial music act Front Line Assembly.[1]
14:55:06 <Samu> Michael Cretu is barely german... that wikipedia stinks a bit
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15:03:31 <Eddi|zuHause> "1975 erhielt Cretu die deutsche Staatsbürgerschaft." how does that "stink"?
15:07:35 * andythenorth is very confused
15:08:29 <Samu> decided to make a living in germany, doesn't stop him from being romanian
15:08:46 <andythenorth> I am listening to Scorpions
15:08:57 <andythenorth> and I thought you were calling them an Enigma cover band
15:09:05 <andythenorth> even though you have no way of knowing I'm listening to them
15:09:14 * andythenorth needs more sleep, I have delerium :P
15:11:49 <Eddi|zuHause> Samu: says here, his mother was austrian, and he was allowed to leave romania on account of being "stateless"... that's a very weak argument for being "pure romanian"
15:13:31 <Eddi|zuHause> so, for all that i am concerned, he is a german that happened to be born in romania.
15:15:56 <Samu> i never understand these ppl that are born or grow in every places
15:16:27 <Samu> for me, where they are born is where they're from
15:21:30 <Samu> Enigma has very few darker tracks
15:26:18 <Samu> came out in the same year, probably same month?
15:27:52 <Samu> The Fall of a Rebel Angel - 11 November 2016
15:28:26 <Samu> Mythologie - 23 September 2016
16:04:19 <Samu> Cretu was born on 18 May 1957 in Bucharest, Socialist Republic of Romania, to a Romanian father and Austrian mother.
16:04:38 <Samu> Wilhelm Anton "Bill" Leeb (born 21 September 1966,[2] Vienna, Austria) is an Austrian-Canadian
16:04:46 <Samu> okay, they're both Austrians then
16:17:39 <Arveen> it's pizza time over here
16:42:31 <Eddi|zuHause> ok, how alarming are these parameters "--ppapi-flash-path=./pepflashplayer.dll --disable-web-security"?
16:43:59 <Samu> i knew flash was already bad while ppl were still praising it :o
16:46:07 <andythenorth> it was so useful
16:46:20 <Samu> it didn't scale properly, and when it did, it was slow
16:46:45 <andythenorth> it sucked for many reasons
16:46:48 <andythenorth> but it was so capable
16:47:52 <Samu> i still remember flash being the cause of my system losing sound
16:49:06 <Samu> can't remember, but I complained often here about it
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16:50:46 <Samu> and in the end... it was the audio part of drm videos causing issues with windows audiomixer thing
16:51:00 <Samu> causing 100% use of a thread
16:51:22 <Samu> and then completely muting the system
16:52:06 <Samu> playing midis on openttd was building up some congestioned audio buffer
16:52:35 <Samu> and boom, it was either playing distorted, or after a few hours, muted
16:54:38 <Samu> ah, i remember the name: “Windows Audio Device Graph Isolation”
16:56:57 <snail_UES_> I’m now having depots with snow on the roof, and this issue ^^^ is really getting in the way
16:58:11 <LordAro> stalebot closed issue, i've reopened
16:58:18 <LordAro> not that that necessarily means anything
16:58:42 <snail_UES_> thanks… hopefully increases the chance some good soul might look into this :)
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17:33:49 <andythenorth> just clipped 38mph on my bike
17:34:13 <andythenorth> moderately scary
17:37:59 <Wolf01> Is it scary because you were saying it here while doing it?
17:38:16 <andythenorth> it's scary because it was on a small road with steep hedges and tight bends
17:40:20 <andythenorth> and also to read the speed I had to look at the speedo not the road
17:44:30 <Eddi|zuHause> hm, i'm having serious performance problems in civ6 while it maxes out at like 15% CPU
17:46:12 <snail_UES_> when I was younger I’d regularly hit 80 km/h on my bike on a mountain downhill road :p
17:46:45 <andythenorth> that's terrifying also
17:46:59 <andythenorth> the time to react to error is non-existent
17:47:04 <snail_UES_> yeah but when you’re in your teens it just feels fun to you
17:47:15 <snail_UES_> seen in retrospect, yes, it’s terrifying...
17:51:23 <Eddi|zuHause> i've never had a speedometer on a bike
17:52:16 <andythenorth> @calc (365 + 355)/2
17:52:46 <andythenorth> if that was 357, Iron Horse 2 would be one train every 2 days since starting
17:53:00 <DorpsGek> andythenorth: 0.991666666667
17:53:27 * andythenorth will round it :P
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19:25:31 <Samu> road vehicle at 139 ms all of a sudden, something's not right
19:28:28 <snail_UES_> I’m drawing tracks with ballast covered with snow, for lines above the snowline
19:28:44 <snail_UES_> problem is… they show up as covered with snow even inside of a depot…
19:29:05 <snail_UES_> I wonder if there’s a flag for tracks to know whether they’re inside of a depot or not?
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19:31:52 <Samu> i switched to YAPF, and road vehicle ticks decreased to 30 ms
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19:32:17 <Samu> something's wrong with YAPF
19:41:19 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick opened issue #7670: Road vehicle ticks is higher in YAPF than in NPF https://git.io/fjyVR
19:42:22 <Samu> for some reason my github session was "logged in", this shouldn't be
19:43:00 <Samu> must logout manually? kinda sucks
19:57:08 <Samu> looks like the company affected is that of Terron
19:57:24 <Samu> Company 4 killed and ms went all the way down to 16 ms
19:58:51 <andythenorth> last 1% ever be done?
19:59:02 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick commented on issue #7670: Road vehicle ticks is higher in YAPF than in NPF https://git.io/fjyVw
19:59:07 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on issue #7670: Road vehicle ticks is higher in YAPF than in NPF https://git.io/fjyVr
20:00:41 <andythenorth> eddi has abandoned us :(
20:01:44 <Samu> i dont think my build has a savegame version bump
20:04:27 <LordAro> Samu: your branch certainly does, though i don't believe it requires it
20:06:10 <Samu> oh, it does, but for no reason, lol
20:06:45 <Samu> it is saved as a game setting
20:08:21 <Samu> can't u force load the save? :(
20:08:37 <Samu> oh boy, how am i gonna reproduce this now...
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20:26:20 <Eddi|zuHause> i hereby declare this GPU deceased after long sickness
20:29:32 <Wolf01> Heh, condolences, I lost mine some time ago :P
20:32:21 <Eddi|zuHause> problem is, my only available replacement GPU for now doesn't let me play half the games at all, because they refuse to start
20:33:12 <Wolf01> Lucky, at least you have a replacement one
20:33:33 <Eddi|zuHause> well, technically two, as i have an onboard one as well
20:33:40 <Eddi|zuHause> which is even older
20:34:07 <Wolf01> Good timing to get a RTX one :P
20:34:26 <Eddi|zuHause> "OpenGL version string: 3.1 Mesa 19.1.2" <-- my other one had 4.5 support, and it's just one generation ahead :/
20:34:47 <Eddi|zuHause> i plan on getting a complete new PC soon (tm)
20:34:53 <Eddi|zuHause> but until then... what should i do?
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20:40:56 <andythenorth> play 2048 on tablet
20:41:21 <Samu> force load it or something
20:42:20 <LordAro> you already know Terron has a big effect
20:42:40 <Samu> terron was the affected one
20:43:06 <andythenorth> on-board graphics will be fine for drawing pixels
20:43:09 <Samu> ok gonna download latest nightly
20:46:48 <Wolf01> Hmm, 4th thunderstorm today
20:54:27 <Arveen> forecast says heavy thunderstorms - it's not even raining outside all day, heh
20:55:40 <Wolf01> Today was like: sun (damp) thunderstorm sun (damp) thunderstorm sun (damp) thunderstorm dusk thunderstorm
20:56:06 <Wolf01> And it's raining piss :|
20:57:02 <Arveen> at least it's only 25c and not 41c like before
20:57:20 <Wolf01> Here is not changed much
20:58:43 <Arveen> i was really hoping for some rain so i don't have to water all my plants in the garden again
20:58:44 <Wolf01> It says 21°C, other days were 26°C at this time, during the day it was 31/33°C
20:59:25 <LordAro> been 18C & raining today, down from 35C on thursday
20:59:57 <Samu> arf... i already miss auto-ops feature
21:00:08 <Samu> gonna set to 500 on master version
21:15:13 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] stormcone opened pull request #7671: Fix #6407: Show snowy ground sprites for depots https://git.io/fjywY
21:23:15 <Eddi|zuHause> too many footnotes
21:31:03 <andythenorth> hmm, do we have any modifier keys besides ctrl and shift?
21:36:10 <Eddi|zuHause> hm, there's a MESA_GL_VERSION_OVERRIDE, what could possibly go wrong?
21:40:21 <Eddi|zuHause> ok... it seems to at least start :)
21:43:49 <Samu> terron wasn't even with 500 road vehs
21:45:39 <Samu> there were 5030 road vehicles in the map
22:03:42 <Samu> oh, the other change is the custom difficulty
22:03:52 <Samu> but that doesn't require savegame conversion
22:04:50 <Samu> neither of the 2 changes would require savegame conversion, but the ai_start_delay needed to be saved
22:05:27 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on pull request #7671: Fix #6407: Show snowy ground sprites for depots https://git.io/fjywV
22:06:02 <Samu> start_date being gone from scripts cause loading saves where the setting was in, to be discarded on load, no errors or issues spawn from it
22:12:07 <Samu> i don't know of any script that would actually require the start_date parameter to run
22:12:26 <Samu> what are the chances someone used it?
22:22:37 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Eddi-z commented on pull request #7671: Fix #6407: Show snowy ground sprites for depots https://git.io/fjyw5
22:29:14 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] James103 commented on issue #7670: Road vehicle ticks is higher in YAPF than in NPF https://git.io/fjywF
22:33:46 <Samu> i have a different idea, gonna load my savegame and stop terron vehicles 1 by 1
22:34:17 <Samu> maybe I can see what the problem is like, I expect it to be 1 road vehicles causing that spike
22:36:42 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] jcoletto77 commented on pull request #7671: Fix #6407: Show snowy ground sprites for depots https://git.io/fjywN
22:47:40 <Samu> i stop a road vehicle and ms decreases 40 ms
22:51:24 <Samu> seems to be that the cache? doesn't update when bridges are demolished?
22:52:32 <LordAro> it needs a concrete example though, preferrably without relying on an AI
22:52:33 <Samu> the road vehicles are trying to move towards a tile that is missing road, presumably it was a bridge
22:52:45 <LordAro> sounds like a good guess though
22:53:40 <Samu> stopped one of the vehicles and gained 40 ms :o
22:53:56 <Samu> ok, gonna see if this is the problem
23:03:09 <Samu> the vehicles at the top near the rail, with a bridge on the other side and the vehicles at the south, near the trees, also with a bridge at the other side
23:03:47 <Samu> i find strange that south bridge being there unconnected to the road
23:03:59 <Samu> and the bridge even belongs to the town
23:12:27 <Samu> tried to reproduce, i can't
23:12:56 <Samu> best i can do is hope it happens again
23:17:39 <Samu> lol, i build 2 road tiles crossing the rail and instant 16 ms
23:17:52 <Samu> the problem is definitely here
23:17:55 <LordAro> TB to the rescue again
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23:18:10 <Samu> too bad I can't provide this savegame
23:23:34 <Samu> okay, there's grey using this road too
23:24:10 <Samu> that's LuDiAI, the original, so i know that code well, it doesn't remove roads
23:24:33 <Samu> must have tried to remove the roads where vehicles crashed
23:24:50 <Samu> at least some AIs do this when they crash vs trains
23:25:50 <Samu> must have been waiting for the vehicles to disperse
23:27:16 <Samu> the other AI is choochoo, but got no buses there atm
23:27:43 <LordAro> Samu: i can't reproduce anything by deleting a road vehicle bridge manually
23:28:40 <Samu> there's a big network of roads before that rail and another after that rail
23:29:03 <Samu> dont have time to see this now
23:29:22 <Samu> but tomorrow will see how big is the road network
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23:51:50 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on pull request #7652: Fix #7635: Game crash on exit scenario editor. https://git.io/fjyru
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