IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2019-07-28
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03:37:40 <Eddi|zuHause> ok, i definitely can't play astroneer with this... where i previously got 40FPS on the titlescreen, i can't even get 1FPS
03:41:08 <Eddi|zuHause> (no idea why, shouldn't be that much of a difference between the two cards)
04:32:37 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nikolas updated pull request #7086: Change #6173: Update SDL driver to use SDL 2.0 https://git.io/fhamZ
04:47:15 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] MingweiSamuel commented on issue #7670: Road vehicle ticks is higher in YAPF than in NPF https://git.io/fjyKg
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12:02:01 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick commented on issue #7670: Road vehicle ticks is higher in YAPF than in NPF https://git.io/fjyDU
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12:13:39 <Samu> need to post more screenshots
12:14:16 <Samu> i would post a giant screenshot but i doubt ppl would look at it
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12:27:14 <Samu> oh boy this is quite the network
12:29:02 <Samu> map is 1024x1024, the affected vehicles are near the center of the map, a little bit to the north of it
12:30:59 <Samu> the roads in Brunston, to the south east of those rail lines town are isolated,but the one that goes northwest is connected to a giant network of roads
12:32:46 <Samu> multiple connected roads to several other towns, industries, bridges, a big big network of roads, I would say it can connect to at least most of the entire side of the map, and the left side as well, and I just got into a road that can lead to the south side too, so... it's giant
12:33:45 <Samu> most of the entire *north* side of the map
12:35:22 <Samu> many road AIs in the game
12:35:49 <Samu> and their way of building roads, you can imagine the kind of network that is, if you're familiar with how they build
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12:47:00 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick commented on issue #7670: Road vehicle ticks is higher in YAPF than in NPF https://git.io/fjy9w
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14:12:03 <Samu> LordAro: I found the cause
14:12:24 <Samu> i'm nearly sure it's due to the way the cache works
14:13:06 <Samu> when the road vehicle is about to enter the last tile that is in cache
14:13:26 <Samu> it calls the pathfinder insistently
14:14:05 <Samu> vehicle is "moving" at 0 km/h and constantly calling the pathfinder, which take 35000 ms each
14:15:18 <Samu> it happens that the road network is at, is such a big one, it doesn't find a path
14:15:38 <Samu> because it's the last tile
14:15:52 <Samu> so it retries pathfinding all the time
14:16:29 <Samu> dbg: [yapf] [YAPFr]! 368- 37672 us - 10001 rounds - 63 open - 10000 closed - CHR 0.0% - C -1 D -1 - c0(sc0, ts0, o0) -- dbg: [yapf] [YAPFr]! 368- 34459 us - 10001 rounds - 63 open - 10000 closed - CHR 0.0% - C -1 D -1 - c0(sc0, ts0, o0) -- dbg: [yapf] [YAPFr]! 368- 42715 us - 10001 rounds - 63 open - 10000 closed - CHR 0.0% - C -1 D -1 - c0(sc0, ts0, o0) -- dbg: [yapf] [YAPFr]! 368- 33536 us - 10001 rounds - 63 open - 10000 closed - CHR
14:33:25 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick commented on issue #7670: Road vehicle ticks is higher in YAPF than in NPF https://git.io/fjyHm
14:37:32 <Samu> I still can't provide a savegame, but this is it
14:43:36 <Samu> i said northeast, i meant northwest
15:14:42 <Samu> dual core system limits me so much
15:15:05 <Samu> can't run 2 openttd and youtube at the same time, it's slowing down too much for my liking
15:26:23 <Samu> ppl badmouth the FX cpu series but now that I'm on a dual core system, I really feel limited in how many stuff I can run on it
15:54:25 <Samu> there's some weird bugs with road consutrction
15:54:39 <Samu> doesn't build the same manner as before
15:55:52 <Samu> "land slopped in wrong direction" ... yeah, kinda true, but the last is already autosloped
16:04:39 <Samu> im trying to manually build a giant road network
16:11:20 <LordAro> just lots of junctions should do it
16:11:37 <LordAro> i was using a flat blank map earlier
16:13:59 <glx> I'm trying to reproduce #7672
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16:21:51 <glx> hmm unless there are more than 32 resolutions
16:23:13 <Samu> omgggg im so dumb, i built a network on the wrong openttd version
16:37:29 <Eddi|zuHause> 32 resolutions ought to be enough for anyone
16:38:13 <glx> I need to adapt some code :)
16:48:24 <LordAro> glx: how does more than 32 resolutions break it?
16:49:20 <glx> if (IsInsideMM(ind, (SPECSTR_RESOLUTION_START - 0x70E4), (SPECSTR_RESOLUTION_END - 0x70E4) + 1)) {
16:49:52 <glx> and SPECSTR_RESOLUTION_END = SPECSTR_RESOLUTION_START + 0x1F
16:50:16 <glx> so more than 32 is outside and triggers NOT_REACHED
16:52:51 <Eddi|zuHause> why the magic number 0x70E4?
16:53:13 * LordAro bets reverse engineering reasons
16:53:51 <peter1138> That was so much food
16:54:26 <Eddi|zuHause> just don't eat anything the rest of the week? i'm sure that works.
16:55:30 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, youtube, i definitely want to know about 3 powerpoint hacks for instant improvement
16:58:59 <peter1138> It was the annual cycling club BBQ.
17:02:57 <peter1138> 2 hot dogs and 1 burger, and tons of cheese and salad later... oof, bloated :p
17:03:33 <peter1138> 2 pints of session IPA. Other people were doing plenty of drinking.
17:03:39 <LordAro> one of our club members is a pub landlord
17:03:42 <LordAro> which helps with these things
17:05:59 <glx> string handling is so ugly in openttd ;)
17:06:04 <Eddi|zuHause> glx: would it make sense to do (ind+0xWHATEVER)?
17:12:49 <glx> hmm could use IsInsideBS() in this case
17:13:16 * andythenorth has found Warcraft 1 in some dosbox thing
17:13:20 <Eddi|zuHause> also, give this poor magic number a name?
17:14:36 <Eddi|zuHause> so far i found 2 games that i can't play with this GPU
17:15:09 <glx> there are more than 2 games I can't play with my GPU :)
17:15:28 <Eddi|zuHause> i mean, games that somewhat worked before
17:16:09 <Eddi|zuHause> and by "play" i mean "it runs with >5fps"
17:17:47 <glx> my CPU is also an issue for many UE4 games (know issue with sound and some AMD cpu)
17:23:05 <peter1138> Bah, SEUS shaders seem to do parallax mapping wrong :/
17:23:31 <peter1138> And my GPU has an issue with TAA with them too, heh.
17:25:24 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick commented on issue #7670: Road vehicle pathing cache does not always pick up changes in road network https://git.io/fjyQy
17:26:03 <peter1138> Well it's not designed to :p
17:27:02 <LordAro> the issue title isn't great, but it's better than the previous :p
17:27:06 <LordAro> feel free to improve it
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18:27:51 <Samu> oh crap, can't even host a server
18:28:05 <Samu> requires firewall, admin rights
18:29:25 <Samu> can't even test my stuff properly...
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19:07:42 <Beerbelott> Is there a way to share stations between companies?
19:08:25 <Beerbelott> Ah OK. Could that be seen as an improvement, on top of explicit configuration to allow it?
19:08:29 <LordAro> there have been a few infrastructure sharing patches over the years, but they all had issues in some way or another
19:11:57 <Samu> just play in the same company?
19:15:32 <LordAro> and you somehow felt it appropriate to link here?
19:17:26 <Samu> because I don't have anybody else to share
19:20:23 <FLHerne> Beerbelott: Note that oil rigs (and newgrf industries with built-in stations) are shared
19:20:48 <FLHerne> So you can transfer cargo between companies, just inconveniently
19:21:38 <FLHerne> Doing so breaks the payment system -- the company doing final delivery gets all the income -- which was one of the main problems with the patches
19:22:53 <FLHerne> (tracking all hops for each cargo-packet would be badly inefficient, and payment on transfer between companies is exploitable for cheating)
19:23:58 <Eddi|zuHause> bah, it's so annoying when you lose a world wonder like 2 turns before finishing it
19:24:13 <FLHerne> Are these like the AoE ones?
19:24:22 <Eddi|zuHause> no, the Civ ones
19:24:39 <Eddi|zuHause> whoever finishes it first, gets the bonus
19:34:58 <Samu> cargo packets would need to store some additional info perhaps
19:40:03 <Samu> how would the income slice for each transfer round be computed
19:49:12 <peter1138> Isn't that quite the question?
20:17:15 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] stormcone commented on pull request #7652: Fix #7635: Game crash on exit scenario editor. https://git.io/fjy54
20:31:00 <LordAro> peter1138: ^ thoughts?
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21:04:45 <Beerbelott> FLHerne: Yeah I was wondering about those "Transfer" payments... Just remembered the payment is not done until a green income pops up...
21:05:04 <Beerbelott> That's a game mechanic, which makes sharing actually dangerous
21:05:12 <Beerbelott> Not a bad mechanic though
21:05:16 <Beerbelott> but uncontrollable
21:06:28 <Beerbelott> About transfer payments... Is value 100% retained for transfered cargo? Or is there some loss?
21:06:36 <Beerbelott> I suppose there must be some decaying
21:07:01 <FLHerne> Beerbelott: Cargo value is based on time-in-transit, not counting waiting at stations
21:07:15 <Beerbelott> Hence no decaying at all?
21:07:53 <FLHerne> Under the 'charts' button there's a set of graphs of "average speed -> payment rate" per cargo
21:08:30 <FLHerne> Although if there's too much cargo at a station, or too long between trains, some can just outright vanish
21:08:49 <Beerbelott> Well transferring from trains to buses hurt because for the final leg speed sinks greatly, but I saw buses delivering for a couple kilo while normally it's usually a couple hundreds :D
21:10:18 <FLHerne> The transfer "payments" are entirely estimated - they're just x% of what /would/ be paid if it was delivered right there
21:11:23 <FLHerne> And the final payment is the real income, minus fictitious transfer payments already shown
21:12:01 <FLHerne> So it's negative if the last vehicle was much slower than average, or the cargo followed a very indirect route
21:15:44 <Samu> cargodist likes to do that
21:21:21 <Beerbelott> Hmm does that mean using buses on endlinks to distribute cargo round town is a bad habit and the station should rather be separated from the bus network in order to maximize profit?
21:39:37 <nielsm> Beerbelott: the buses are probably still making more than they cost to run, just the transfer calculation misrepresents it
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21:55:53 <Samu> I wish random ais avoided repeating the same ai
21:56:09 <Samu> if there are more ais to chose from
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22:29:08 <Beerbelott> nielsm: Sure, but comparing a scenario where trains deliver/take cargo from a seperate station from a bus loop to another scenario where trains connect to one of the buses' station, if cargo transfer loses value, one way of another (buses being much slower than trains, ending payment lowered by fictious transfer money I'll never see, etc), wouldn't the "disconnected" scenario be more profitable?
22:30:00 <Beerbelott> At least the generated cargo would not suffer from the "transfer" mechanism. One of the q° being if the generated cargo volume would then be the same or not
22:40:56 <andythenorth> after 3 hours of original Warcraft 1 in dosbox
22:41:10 <andythenorth> OpenTTD looks ridiculously high-res
22:49:47 <FLHerne> Beerbelott: But, as with everything else, the optimal way to make money (by a huge margin) is with airports in the map corners
22:50:53 <Beerbelott> Ouch, did you just confirm connecting stations actually *lowers* profit?
22:50:59 <FLHerne> Or, failing that, the fastest available train
22:51:07 <FLHerne> There's no remotely financially-optimal game plan that gives road vehicles any consideration at all
22:52:06 <FLHerne> Yes (if you do have road vehicles, for profit you should have them feed /into/ a higher-speed network, then have no-load orders)
22:52:27 <Beerbelott> But road vehicles allow quick & basic coverage of relatively small town (those for which a single train station won't encompass them)
22:52:58 <FLHerne> I just disagree that "ouch" really applies, because playing OTTD for financial optimality is no fun anyway
22:53:16 <Beerbelott> Hence, since there won't be loading, that would mean 4 stops for twon growth + a 5th one for train loading
22:53:50 <FLHerne> Something like that, yep
22:53:58 <Beerbelott> FLHerne: Well. I'll leave that to each & everyone appreciation on how to play management transportation games
22:54:04 <FLHerne> (I've done that sort of thing in CityBuilder games)
22:54:21 <Beerbelott> Thx for all that :)
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23:16:23 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Nik-mmzd commented on pull request #7086: Change #6173: Update SDL driver to use SDL 2.0 https://git.io/fjyFr
23:20:28 <Samu> clever bot vs copy paste
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