IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2019-07-25
⏴ go to previous day
00:43:36 *** rocky11384497 has joined #openttd
02:51:07 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] James103 commented on issue #7602: There are 22 known save games that crash OpenTTD (latest master) on load. https://git.io/fjDDb
02:51:24 *** Supercheese has joined #openttd
05:06:31 *** Thedarkb1-T60 has joined #openttd
05:06:34 *** Thedarkb1-X40 has joined #openttd
05:37:56 *** Sheogorath has joined #openttd
06:05:34 *** Sheogorath has joined #openttd
08:10:31 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd
08:11:25 *** D-HUND is now known as debdog
08:17:04 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd
08:54:06 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Eddi-z commented on issue #7602: There are 22 known save games that crash OpenTTD (latest master) on load. https://git.io/fjDHV
09:40:21 *** Flygon_ has joined #openttd
10:48:59 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on issue #7602: There are 22 known save games that crash OpenTTD (latest master) on load. https://git.io/fjD7a
11:01:23 <peter1138> Damn, I'm not signed in to github :/
11:03:28 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on issue #7602: There are 22 known save games that crash OpenTTD (latest master) on load. https://git.io/fjD7N
12:08:25 <LordAro> some sort of automated savegame testing is looking increasingly needed
12:16:13 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd
13:06:22 <peter1138> Our aircon works :D
13:08:48 <peter1138> As does the automatic ice cube maker.
13:20:56 <andythenorth> our aircon is awaiting an upgraded power connection to the building :p
13:21:08 <nakki> office aircon makes me wanna never leave
13:21:21 <nakki> but i've got three weeks of vacation after tomorrow
13:50:20 *** Eddi|zuHause2 has joined #openttd
13:59:28 <Samu> the multidocks thing claims its first victim
14:00:48 <Samu> "Your script made an error: empty array"
14:01:10 <Samu> i can't view code on this system
14:03:32 <LordAro> peter1138: ours is broken :(
14:03:47 <LordAro> peter1138: also, what was with your effort this morning? :p
14:07:58 <Samu> opening text files here show everything without paragraphs, all into a single line
14:11:15 <Samu> can only execute stuff that doesnt require admin rights
14:11:27 <Samu> bah, have no rights to this system
14:13:31 <LordAro> Samu: don't use notepad
14:15:18 <Samu> trying to download notepad++
14:15:38 <Samu> then hope I can extract it, and run without admin rights
14:16:57 <Samu> i still have a problem... .tar files
14:17:09 <Samu> can't open .tar here, bah, I'm so limited
14:19:49 <Samu> this is my future, handicapped, limited,
14:19:59 <Samu> i hate myself, I hate my life
14:21:28 <Samu> can't do half the things I could before
14:21:43 <LordAro> dare i ask what changed?
14:22:55 <peter1138> LordAro, I... er... Hmm...
14:25:38 <Samu> it's my father... he can't take care of me anytime soon
14:54:39 <FLHerne> Samu: > everything without paragraphs, all into a single line < is probably your editor being set to use Windows-style line endings (\r\n)
14:55:11 <FLHerne> Whereas most source code uses Unix-style endings (just \n)
14:56:53 <Samu> need to be able to extract .tar files
14:57:24 <LordAro> Samu: 7zip shouldn't need installing either
15:02:03 <Samu> where are you downloading it
15:06:44 <Arveen> there is a portable version of 7zip
15:18:47 <peter1138> "Our supreme 1KG is pack perfect for family sharing or even just for yourself if you are a true Biltong King or Queen."
15:19:04 <peter1138> Well damn, eating 1kg of biltong might have some side effects, heh.
15:34:18 <rubenwardy> it's cured meat, which will keep for ages
15:44:26 *** Wormnest has joined #openttd
15:49:50 <nielsm> right, power issues and brownouts continued well into the night, so I was probably right in just shutting down and unplugging most stuff last night :s
18:18:07 <Samu> okay, terron was trying to build buoys
18:18:20 <Samu> or, actually, pathfinding
18:18:53 <Samu> and somewhere it received an empty array error
18:19:06 <Samu> did something change about buoys recently?
18:19:33 <Samu> Quadtree water pathfinder
18:22:16 <Samu> start_dock.GetWaterExit()
18:22:39 <Samu> how would this work with multidocks..
18:23:00 *** Progman has joined #openttd
18:31:32 *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd
18:31:36 *** Wacko1976 has joined #openttd
18:45:29 *** gelignite has joined #openttd
19:03:34 <Samu> uhm, forget the multidocks thing
19:04:02 <Samu> terron has some quadtree functions. not sure what's a quadtree, or how it works
19:04:43 <Samu> GetIntersection returned no tiles
19:05:35 <Samu> local qt = big_qt.GetIntersection(x, y, x, y, -1).pop();
19:06:24 <Samu> can't it intersect with itself?
19:06:44 <Samu> i dunno for sure what's it doing though
19:06:55 <Samu> but it doesn't look like a multidock problem after all
19:14:46 <Samu> it's not usual to see a Terron crash
19:45:31 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd
19:47:05 *** OsteHovel has joined #openttd
19:57:41 <andythenorth> it goes a long way into the distance :)
19:58:22 <nielsm> it looks like a good candidate for multi-building industries :P
20:03:14 <Samu> or there's no changes between 1.9.0 and 1.9.2?
20:05:41 <nielsm> I suppose there are, except I'm not sure the documentation was updated in the source
20:06:00 <nielsm> since iirc in 1.9.2 you can now find train-less wagons in depots
20:06:10 <nielsm> (so they aren't entirely lost)
20:10:11 <Samu> hmm maybe that's why Trans is going dumb
20:11:33 <Samu> Trans builds a rail route, then when it tries to build trains... it goes nuts
20:11:35 <andythenorth> industry sublayouts you think nielsm? o_O
20:12:24 <andythenorth> stations are proportionate there? :P
20:14:08 <nielsm> yeah I've talked about it before :) instead of defining a bunch of fixed layouts for industries, you define multiple sets of layouts for different "buildings" (one of them is the main building) and the game places multiple buildings around the area according to some defined rules
20:15:04 <nielsm> well maybe similar could be achieved by adding in the proposed industry-spawned newobjects
20:15:33 <nielsm> though those would probably also need to be defined for cargo accepts/supplies
20:16:05 <nielsm> (IMO it could be interesting if some buildings in an industry only accepted and some only supplied, and it spans a very large area)
20:17:46 *** techmagus has joined #openttd
20:20:46 <nielsm> hmm the blitter really doesnt have a way to draw anything that isn't a sprite loaded from a GRF file, right?
20:21:06 <nielsm> (and truetype text is very special cased?)
20:21:25 <LordAro> i think it can draw rectangles as well
20:22:24 <nielsm> but yeah the thought was how much work it would be to someone render a profile image from an external user inside the game gui, the answer is probably "very much work"
20:22:35 <nielsm> (especially if we're doing 8bpp blitter)
20:22:50 <LordAro> i would expect so, yes
20:41:04 <nielsm> NetworkAddress::GetAddressAsString() is great to have... but I can't find anything that parses those strings back?
20:42:16 <nielsm> oh, ParseConnectionString
21:20:39 *** Eddi|zuHause2 is now known as Eddi|zuHause
21:51:18 *** Progman has joined #openttd
22:02:13 <Eddi|zuHause> concentrate on 2 or 3 main buildings, sprinkling in some storage area
22:02:46 *** gareppa has joined #openttd
22:04:43 <andythenorth> I already did that :P
22:06:36 <andythenorth> I am mostly curious if huge industries are more useful in game
22:07:10 <Eddi|zuHause> <nielsm> (IMO it could be interesting if some buildings in an industry only accepted and some only supplied, and it spans a very large area) <-- that will only lead to two things: a) players stationwalking to cover the whole industry, b) players complaining that their station doesn't accept X even though they covered the station (see default oil refinery)
22:07:36 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: last time you tried huge industries you complained about the game not being able to spawn them on hilly maps
22:07:52 <andythenorth> yes, that is why they're not in FIRS
22:08:15 <Eddi|zuHause> you could make it a parameter
22:08:26 <Eddi|zuHause> with a warning that you should play smoother maps if enabled
22:09:03 <Eddi|zuHause> also, some placement check to leave space between industries for stations
22:10:09 <andythenorth> I'm curious about sub-layouts
22:10:19 <andythenorth> hmm, but I could fake those compile side
22:10:26 <andythenorth> doesn't need OpenTTD changes
22:10:47 <Samu> I think 1.9.2 broke Trans
22:10:59 <Samu> 1.9.1 it still builds trains properly
22:11:34 <Samu> at least from what I remember from my AI tournament
22:12:36 <andythenorth> looks like it's possible to have up to 255 layouts for an industry
22:12:54 <Eddi|zuHause> is that a challenge?
22:13:04 <andythenorth> it's not a very interesting one
22:13:10 <andythenorth> say, 3 sub-modules
22:13:32 <andythenorth> 255 different arrangements of them
22:13:58 <Eddi|zuHause> 3 sub modules, 4 layouts each, is already 6 bits, leaving 2 bits for macro arrangement
22:14:24 <andythenorth> if I do it compile side, I'd have to faff about with the current height checks
22:14:37 <andythenorth> they assume contiguous layouts
22:15:18 <andythenorth> I'd need to know which sub-layout I was in, which means a very large switch to match the tile index to a sub-layout
22:15:37 <Eddi|zuHause> that sounds backwards
22:16:15 <andythenorth> it does, but I think in this case I'm correct
22:16:25 <Eddi|zuHause> also, couldn't the sublayouts have different heights?
22:16:50 *** Beerbelott1 has joined #openttd
22:16:58 <andythenorth> tiles need to be same height within the sub-layout
22:17:09 <andythenorth> but allow different between the sub-layouts
22:17:38 <andythenorth> current code checks that all tiles are same height as N tile (with some faff about allowing lowered corners)
22:17:52 <andythenorth> so instead I'd need to reference the N tile for the sub-layout
22:17:56 <andythenorth> which is possible
22:18:07 <andythenorth> just one big switch, or a lot of small ones
22:18:25 <Eddi|zuHause> the industry's height check would branch into the 3 sublayouts
22:18:36 <Eddi|zuHause> and the 3 sublayouts then check their respective tiles
22:18:41 <andythenorth> if it was done in the newgrf spec, yes
22:19:05 <andythenorth> I am thinking of the compile-side, no spec change solution
22:19:29 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm thinking the same
22:19:58 <andythenorth> well there's no concept afaict of a sub-layout
22:20:02 <andythenorth> only the tile index
22:20:17 <Eddi|zuHause> how does the height check work currently?
22:20:40 <Eddi|zuHause> is it an industry callback, or an industrytile callback, or what?
22:21:28 <andythenorth> industry tile cb
22:21:56 <Samu> how do i download 1.9.1 as a zip?
22:22:09 <Samu> want to check Trans there
22:22:12 <andythenorth> both are possible, but for allowing / forbidding construction on a specific tile, it's a tile cb
22:22:54 <Eddi|zuHause> so it is called for each tile, and you reference PARENT for north corner location?
22:23:57 <andythenorth> ^ that is a check that allows building industries that look 'flat' but may actually have lowered corners on some tiles
22:24:07 <andythenorth> which seems to aid not having broken chains somewhat
22:25:54 <Eddi|zuHause> and relative_x/relative_y are industrytile variables?
22:27:20 <andythenorth> some kind of expression magic
22:28:51 <Eddi|zuHause> your location check kinda fails if the north corner is not part of the industy (but that's not really the point right now)
22:30:05 <andythenorth> yes there is that case
22:30:37 <andythenorth> there are industries that would fail on that
22:30:43 <Eddi|zuHause> an industry tile has an ID number, right?
22:30:55 <Eddi|zuHause> is that available in this callback?
22:31:04 <andythenorth> I would expect so
22:31:23 <Eddi|zuHause> you could use that number to encode the sublayout position
22:31:54 <andythenorth> only 255 tile IDs, I'm running out...
22:32:17 <Eddi|zuHause> say, you have 3 sublayouts in a 4x4 pattern, then the 1st sublayout gets IDs 0..15, the 2nd 16..31 and the 3rd 32..47
22:32:59 <andythenorth> FIRS has consumed 121 / 256 so far
22:33:01 <Eddi|zuHause> you can reuse tile IDs between industries, right?
22:33:13 <andythenorth> unless I missed a memo
22:33:24 <andythenorth> "Industry tile IDs are local to the NewGRF, you are free to choose any ID in the 0..255-range"
22:34:02 <andythenorth> it wouldn't be hard to deduce a sub-layout from a tile index, it's just verbose
22:34:05 <Eddi|zuHause> hm, then each industry tile would need to query the industry type of the parent industry to decide anything
22:34:56 <Eddi|zuHause> so each industry tile callback would do a switch on industry type
22:35:30 <Eddi|zuHause> dunno if that has any performance impact
22:35:33 <andythenorth> I could detect the sub-layout early in the chain, store it, reuse it where needed
22:35:55 <andythenorth> it's something like (number of tiles in the layout) * (number of total layouts) though
22:36:05 <andythenorth> so it _might_ affect compile time :P
22:36:15 <Eddi|zuHause> that's just a massive lookup table
22:37:04 <Eddi|zuHause> definetly would benefit some playstyles
22:37:59 <Eddi|zuHause> but like i said, it should probably be optional
22:38:53 <Samu> just confirmed: Trans can build trains properly in 1.9.1
22:39:12 <andythenorth> Steeltown tends to concentrate many primaries onto a handful of secondaries
22:39:13 <Samu> gonna test 1.9.2 just to be sure
22:39:17 <andythenorth> which seem like they should be bigger
22:39:47 <andythenorth> it's plausible that I could just include bigger layouts, and the game will use the smaller one if it can't manage the bigger
22:40:15 <andythenorth> I can't weight specific layouts trivially though
22:45:08 <Eddi|zuHause> no, you should not mix small and large layouts
22:45:21 <Samu> strange, it can build trains in 1.9.2
22:45:43 <Samu> something between 1.9.2 and the build on 21st july?
22:46:02 <nielsm> needs some more spacing around places
22:46:38 <Eddi|zuHause> too much bloat text, too little context?
22:47:06 <Eddi|zuHause> also, would that turn an SP game into an MP server?
22:47:21 <nielsm> not yet, for the latter
22:47:28 <nielsm> that would be a lot of work :)
22:47:42 <nielsm> right now I only offer it for MP games
22:47:58 <nielsm> and only if the player is not hosting the server
22:48:18 <nielsm> (also need to add detection for local or internet server, so it isn't offered for LAN-only servers)
22:48:45 <Eddi|zuHause> how would you detect that?
22:48:57 <Eddi|zuHause> unadvertised servers can still be internet
22:49:12 <nielsm> check the address of the server
22:49:36 <Eddi|zuHause> that wouldn't detect NAT forwarding
22:49:39 <nielsm> if it's 127.0.0.0/8 or 10.0.0.0/8 or one of the other known private networks, assume it's local
22:50:12 <Eddi|zuHause> that'd exclude pretty much any home setup
22:50:30 <nielsm> yes if you're hosting the server inside your own firewall
22:50:37 <nielsm> and playing on the server yourself
22:50:55 <Eddi|zuHause> ... which would be about 100% of your target audience
22:51:48 <nielsm> I haven't tried to handle the "client is the server" case at all yet
22:51:56 <nielsm> there's tons of work on that
22:52:12 <andythenorth> off the last 6 trains for Horse :(
22:52:21 <andythenorth> I am very uninterested in drawing 4 of them :P
22:52:59 <nielsm> the current network protocol itself would also need a way for the client to ask the server for its internet-routable address
22:53:12 <nielsm> which it could maybe (only maybe) get by asking the master server about itself
22:53:59 <Eddi|zuHause> could these "friend" services work as a proxy?
22:54:42 <nielsm> discord does offer a pseudo-p2p connection api that pretends to be stream oriented while actually doing UDP and being capable of NAT punching
22:54:46 <Eddi|zuHause> (that might avoid loads of router configuration problems, but open a new can of worms)
22:54:52 <nielsm> but then you have to buy into their API wholesale
22:55:43 <nielsm> or we could implement our own version of the same, though it would require some cooperation of a master server of some sort
22:55:55 <Eddi|zuHause> nielsm: but that you could handle inside your DLL, which would just open a local port that pretends to be the server?
22:56:40 <Eddi|zuHause> or pretends to be the client, on the server side
22:58:14 <Eddi|zuHause> that might actually be an interesting feature to pursue
22:58:14 <nielsm> but when if the server is a dedicated server running on linux on machine A on my home network, machine A is not exposed on the router, and I play from machine B running windows, and then I invite my friend to play? there is no discord API or network proxy on machine A
22:58:24 <nielsm> then machine B would have to act as proxy?
22:59:56 <Eddi|zuHause> well, you could still try to figure out the public IP first, and fallback to the proxy method if it fails
22:59:58 <Samu> hmm question, where can I download the nightly of 22nd july?
23:01:01 <Eddi|zuHause> or disable the invite functionality in certain conditions
23:01:41 <nielsm> Eddi|zuHause: that's why I initially intend to disable it if the server is the local machine, or the server is a known private network IP range
23:02:17 <nielsm> yes it shuts out a lot of the most interesting cases, but it's also much less work initially
23:03:19 <Eddi|zuHause> nielsm: i'd rather pursue the "A plays on his windows PC on a non-dedicated server" case rather than worry about "but what if the server is on linux?"
23:04:00 <nielsm> right now starting a listen server does not even mark you as being in a multiplayer game :P
23:04:04 <Eddi|zuHause> or, on starting the server you decide whether it should be announced on the masterserver, via discord, or both
23:04:07 <nielsm> (it doesn't even mark you as being in a game at all!)
23:04:14 <Samu> i know you guys are busy, but hmm, no way to download old nightlies?
23:04:35 <Samu> just 1 day older than current
23:04:55 <nielsm> Samu you can try to guess the URL from date and revision hash
23:05:05 <nielsm> there were only 3 commits on the 22nd so very few hashes to try
23:05:42 <LordAro> hmm, still no listing of old nightlies, is there?
23:05:48 <LordAro> is it 90 that are kept?
23:06:33 <Eddi|zuHause> LordAro: i don't know how it is currently, but there used to be some cutoff where only sources of nightlies were ckept
23:06:51 <Eddi|zuHause> the binaries get discarded
23:07:32 <LordAro> maybe that's what i'm thinking of
23:08:36 <Samu> and it downloads, ok, testing... brb
23:12:10 <Samu> bug is present on 20190722
23:12:44 <Samu> fml, i built my experimental build based on 22nd
23:13:42 *** gareppa has joined #openttd
23:14:28 <Samu> i'm stuck, i need my computer t.t
23:14:47 <Samu> oh well, at least I know what it is now
23:14:55 <Samu> it's not Trans, it was openttd
23:17:41 <nielsm> Eddi|zuHause: if you want to inspect or even test, I pushed my ottd branch and my discord dll now
23:17:55 <nielsm> actually I should maybe make a new dll build
23:18:05 <Eddi|zuHause> nielsm: i don't have any windows available
23:18:34 <nielsm> (I'd also prefer to be without discord)
23:27:23 <glx> but nothing really changed in this area between 22 and 23
23:35:35 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, youtube, i definitely want to watch this new video "ABC" by this up-and-coming band "Jackson 5"
23:38:26 <Eddi|zuHause> (that probably came out before i was born)
continue to next day ⏵
