IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2019-07-01
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03:53:40 <reldred> oh great, the joys of the fact that someone else without my permission uploaded my station sets and I had to have them reassigned to me, they've all been uploaded originally as gplv2 as the license.
03:53:51 <reldred> which I never had permission to license them as
03:55:28 <reldred> guess I'll have to actually release an update to them then if I want to fix that
04:03:39 <reldred> also if I really want to piss off a certain somebody I should code a new version of the US stations set, since the original artist handed over all of his shit to me
04:15:57 <reldred> Hmm, I might be able to update suburban stations and keep it savegame compatible... hmmm...
04:16:10 <reldred> some items do need additional layouts, but...
04:18:11 <Eddi|zuHause> sounds like you're having fun
04:35:44 <reldred> Eddi|zuHause: for various values of fun
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07:00:33 <reldred> Who would I beg/plead with in order to get some records on Bananas renamed?
07:02:02 <reldred> And if I upload an update to a grf with a different grfid will it create a new entry with both visible side by side? or will openttd just whinge on opening a savegame that already has the old grfid grfs?
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08:46:40 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] James103 opened issue #7633: Extremely low (x1/128) track build/remove cost severely restricts the track conversion feature. https://git.io/fjKqE
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10:15:12 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on issue #7633: Extremely low (x1/128) track build/remove cost severely restricts the track conversion feature. https://git.io/fjKYf
10:38:39 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh opened pull request #7634: Fix #7633: Allow zero-cost track conversion to succeed https://git.io/fjKYR
10:47:49 <reldred> nielsm: who would be the best person to speak to regarding bananas?
11:00:54 <planetmaker> reldred what's your issue with bananas?
11:01:03 <planetmaker> ah... renamed... hm
11:01:09 <reldred> Not really an issue as such
11:01:19 <reldred> Just figuring out how to go forward with some projects
11:01:42 <planetmaker> Renaming needs direct database access there... dunno... frosch, rubi, tb, I guess
11:02:01 <reldred> Basically, three old sets, if I can upload updates with a different grfid and filename without fscking everything then all good.
11:02:01 <planetmaker> as to uploading a new version with a different grfID: that is possible
11:02:17 <reldred> then I need to rename the old one to state (Legacy) as a suffixe on the end
11:02:48 <planetmaker> concerning savegames: OpenTTD will always request the exact version the savegame was created with - irrespective of any updates you uploaded to bananas
11:02:48 <reldred> I just don't want to have two identical entries in the list
11:03:35 <reldred> So if I just upload a new file of re_suburban for instance to replace ae_subuw with a different grfid I can keep the same record in Bananas and not have to worry about breaking anything?
11:03:57 <reldred> Oh well, that's solved everything then
11:04:03 <reldred> Thanks for the clarification :)
11:04:06 <planetmaker> What changes is that the older version will not be offered for download to people who do not have it
11:04:16 <planetmaker> for unconditional download only the newest version is available
11:04:57 <planetmaker> for savegames, always exact matches are downloaded. So people should always be happy - except those who want an old version because they thing it is better for whatever reason ;)
11:06:54 <planetmaker> as to OpenTTD locally: OpenTTD will always show the newest version of a particular *grfID* when selecting NewGRFs on map creation, thus works slightly different as it doesn't know the bananas entry concept directly. But it's not a big issue, I think
11:07:23 <planetmaker> however, what you can do when you change grfID:
11:07:41 <planetmaker> * create a new entry in bananas for the newgrf with the new grfID and use it as normal
11:08:14 <planetmaker> * edit your existing entry in bananas for the old grfID such that it becomes unavailable to current OpenTTD versions (i.e. set a maximum OpenTTD version to like 1.7 or so)
11:08:26 <planetmaker> that might even be the cleaner solution
11:10:59 <reldred> Hmmm, that might work. Mind you I don't necessarily have any problems with people using the old version and the new side by side. The new versions _are_ going to be a graphical overhaul.
11:11:16 <reldred> I just want them to stop downloading the old one preferably through bananas.
11:11:28 <reldred> they'll be able to pull the legacy versions from github if they want
11:12:29 <planetmaker> well... that's more a hassle :)
11:12:48 <planetmaker> My personal approach would be to simply start a new entry as version2 of the Newgrf with a new grfid
11:13:10 <planetmaker> and not worry about the old version being downloaded or not. But that's just me
11:13:55 <reldred> I'll be honest in that I am kind of vain now that I've found one of them is the 2nd most downloaded grf on bananas and that I do want to keep that spot ;-)
11:14:40 <planetmaker> or I might simply keep the grfID... and keep updating the old bananas entry... dunno what :)
11:15:00 <reldred> Jeeze I remember when I had to get those records pulled accross to me in the first place. I still was't happy about them being on bananas at all in the first place but I was talked down from that tree
11:15:55 <planetmaker> I wish there were more meaningful statistics than download number. Download number currently only is a proxy to the age of an entry. Mostly
11:16:25 <reldred> Other reason I want to keep the existing record is so I can change the license type with the new version uploaded. They were never licensed gpl2, I never had permission to license them gpl2 but the person who uploaded them to bananas without my permission declared them as such.
11:17:03 <planetmaker> you... can ... change license for new uploads on existing entries.
11:17:18 <planetmaker> what entry do we talk about, btw?
11:17:22 <reldred> Didn't let me unless I uploaded a new file
11:17:35 <reldred> City Stations, Rural Stations and Suburban Stations
11:17:41 <planetmaker> you need to upload it at the same time in the same zip, I think. Or with musa
11:17:49 <planetmaker> not after the grf was uploaded
11:18:16 <reldred> Yeah it will let me when uploading a new file, either pick from the drop down or in an attached tarball
11:18:27 <planetmaker> the content of one entry (one upload) is unmutable. For good reasons :)
11:19:02 <reldred> Yeah that's why I want to update the record with a new version rather than create a new record and set the max version on the old to retire it
11:19:17 <reldred> because even with the max version trick you can still go to the bananas webpage and download it
11:19:34 <reldred> which is how I found the 'poisoned grfs' that some... one... had uploaded.
11:19:51 <planetmaker> if you update an existing entry, there's little need to set a maximum version for older entries. That's only necessary when you create a new entry - and forcefully want to retire / hide the old entry
11:20:39 <planetmaker> I don't think you can download grfs from bananas via webinterface
11:21:32 <reldred> Well, I can, at least.
11:21:46 <planetmaker> can you give me link?
11:22:38 <planetmaker> hm, maybe current entries. but not older
11:23:12 <reldred> Yeah, which is why I want to update the existing entry instead of do the max version trick to hide the existing entry and create a new one.
11:23:52 <planetmaker> if you update it, your vanity will be hurt and download reset to 0 ;)
11:24:14 <reldred> Yes, but I can still see the total downloads per version in Manager :P
11:24:17 <planetmaker> downloads counts for the visible version only :P
11:24:39 <reldred> But nah I'm not that attached to the downloads amount, you're right it is silly.
11:24:58 <planetmaker> so, if you say s/o uploaded those entries... do you have access to those?
11:25:28 <reldred> I just don't want someone to go to the bananans web interface and download the gpl'd hidden entries and then use the graphics for means which I never gained permission in the first place.
11:25:35 <reldred> Yeah I've got access to them
11:26:21 <reldred> I came in here and picked a fight over them somewhere between 7 and 10 years ago. I wanted them deleted but y'all talked me out of it :)
11:26:33 <reldred> I was... pretty unreasonable as a kid.
11:28:32 <LordAro> who wasn't unreasonable*
11:28:38 <planetmaker> those who were born senile :P
11:28:53 <reldred> Yeah, well I didn't sabotage all my grf's like someone did and delete them off tt-forums.
11:29:51 <reldred> So I guess I wasn't _too_ bad, but yeah. I was one of those diehard TTDPatch 4 life
11:30:33 <planetmaker> flamewars better remain rested in ashes :P
11:31:04 <reldred> Well, I've released something on bananas that might rekindle one of those flamewars but we'll see.
11:31:27 <reldred> Maybe not. I haven't announced it on tt-forums except to pm a few people.
11:31:55 <reldred> I kinda like the idea of silently updating the old grf's with a fresh lick of paint and watching people lose their minds.
11:33:00 <planetmaker> I guess it's lunch time. Laters :)
11:33:11 <reldred> Thanks for the help :)
11:38:53 <peter1138> 2½ hours too early for my lunch :-)
11:39:13 <peter1138> On the other hand, my tummy is rumbling.
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11:42:18 <reldred> ... that's concerning, this command I just executed wasn't supposed to cause a system reboot...
11:42:32 <reldred> good thing it's outside of business hours but still
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11:45:03 <peter1138> I remember that time I shut down a vserver guest (before LXC was a thing) and... it also shut down the host.
11:45:54 <reldred> Yeah I work on pabx's
11:46:02 <reldred> so they do all sorts of weird things
11:46:07 <reldred> weird proprietary things
11:46:25 <reldred> do they document these weird proprietary things? Heavens no.
11:49:57 <LordAro> documentation is for quiters
12:18:43 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro approved pull request #7634: Fix #7633: Allow zero-cost track conversion to succeed https://git.io/fjK3q
12:18:58 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on pull request #7634: Fix #7633: Allow zero-cost track conversion to succeed https://git.io/fjK3m
12:20:26 <nielsm> LordAro: I was unsure about that, will make a fix in a moment :P
12:21:23 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh dismissed a review for pull request #7634: Fix #7633: Allow zero-cost track conversion to succeed https://git.io/fjK3q
12:21:24 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh updated pull request #7634: Fix #7633: Allow zero-cost track conversion to succeed https://git.io/fjKYR
12:27:52 <nakki> i am wrestling with the worst database schema and some of the worst java i've ever seen
12:28:15 <nakki> the most frustrating part is that the java, specifically, isn't even really old legacy code
12:28:20 <nakki> it's been written in the past ~2 years
12:28:36 <nakki> it's just incredibly shoddy
12:29:19 <reldred> well, my evening shift is done. I'm off to head home and write more dodgy makefiles doing more dodgy things with the gcc preprocessor. Nobody tell andythenorth.
12:29:28 <nielsm> make sure to submit it to thedailywtf.com ;)
13:41:00 <Eddi|zuHause> does that still exist?
14:42:04 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] GabdaZM commented on pull request #7025: Add #6887: Option to show zone inside local authority boundary of towns https://git.io/fjKZK
14:44:10 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] ldpl updated pull request #7560: Make GSGoal.QuestionClient work correctly at least for clients with ID < 2**16 https://git.io/fjZjH
14:46:23 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] ldpl updated pull request #7560: Make GSGoal.QuestionClient work correctly at least for clients with ID < 2**16 https://git.io/fjZjH
14:48:47 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] ldpl updated pull request #7560: Make GSGoal.QuestionClient work correctly at least for clients with ID < 2**16 https://git.io/fjZjH
14:51:01 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro dismissed a review for pull request #7025: Add #6887: Option to show zone inside local authority boundary of towns https://git.io/fjBPD
14:51:32 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on pull request #7025: Add #6887: Option to show zone inside local authority boundary of towns https://git.io/fjKZx
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15:06:54 <_dp_> Hi! Can #7560 also get backport requested label please
15:08:34 <_dp_> it's specifically made for 1.9 branch after all :)
15:10:28 <_dp_> I mean it's based on master ofc but was meant to be backported
15:10:54 <planetmaker> it's not merged yet, is it?
15:11:11 <nielsm> I added the tag, it looks safe to backport
15:12:23 <_dp_> yeah, not merged but that doesn't seem to be a prerequisite for a label :p
15:19:17 <planetmaker> you know the answer :P
15:20:13 <Eddi|zuHause> you know that sometimes, getting an answer is not the point of a question :p
15:24:17 <peter1138> It's a Monday, so...
15:24:55 <peter1138> Was 7560 the one I had to rewrite for master, cos it's all different for 1.9? :p
15:27:47 <_dp_> peter1138, wut? there is no difference afaik
15:28:16 <peter1138> It was a question, you know.
15:29:10 <peter1138> And the answer is no. It is not the PR I was thinking of.
15:29:10 <_dp_> peter1138, a proper fix would need some rewriting later I guess but this temporary one should be good for both branches for now
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17:59:27 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on pull request #7620: Fix: Various reliability and correctness improvements to MIDI on Windows https://git.io/fjKlo
17:59:46 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh updated pull request #7620: Fix: Various reliability and correctness improvements to MIDI on Windows https://git.io/fjg34
18:03:26 <nielsm> I should probably still split that PR into more logical commits
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19:02:49 <andythenorth> I am puzzled about FIRS production :P
19:03:29 <andythenorth> produces no output if VENG is delivered
19:03:40 <andythenorth> only 2080 lines for the one industry :P
19:05:37 <Eddi|zuHause> not going to do that
19:06:58 <andythenorth> I'll see what happens when I deliver a second cargo
19:09:26 <andythenorth> oops wrong branch
19:09:51 <andythenorth> seems I made the 16-cargo code smaller then 3-cargo code
19:09:58 <andythenorth> only 68 lines :P
19:12:17 <andythenorth> wonder if this is the remnants
19:18:09 <andythenorth> min distributed property is set to 1
19:18:18 <andythenorth> but I wonder if 4.5 is getting rounded away somewhere
19:19:38 <andythenorth> I wish Apple hadn't broken ffwd
19:19:44 <andythenorth> it makes testing production really dull :)
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19:26:49 <andythenorth> fps 23 on normal speed :P
19:27:51 <Eddi|zuHause> is it also slow with "-v null"?
19:28:01 <Eddi|zuHause> "-v null:ticks=1000"
19:28:06 <Eddi|zuHause> or something like that
19:28:53 <andythenorth> as a runtime shell arg?
19:29:47 <andythenorth> fails to start if I do that
19:30:34 <Eddi|zuHause> it'll run silently/headless and then quit
19:30:47 <Eddi|zuHause> so you can "time blah" it
19:31:12 <Eddi|zuHause> -v null disables most graphics code
19:31:22 <andythenorth> that's why it shows no graphics then :)
19:31:38 <andythenorth> the industry production issue is some kind of integer rounding / discard issue
19:31:53 <andythenorth> I increased input a bit and got 4t out on one of the 3 output cargos
19:32:06 * andythenorth will explore that more later
19:32:38 <Eddi|zuHause> ... didn't you throw away the rounding code last time? i can't find it
19:33:26 <Eddi|zuHause> i hate when he does this...
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19:57:41 <andythenorth> integer maths school
19:58:44 <andythenorth> production ratio is 2/8
19:58:52 <andythenorth> @calc (72 * 2) / 8
19:58:59 <andythenorth> output ratio is 2 / 8
19:59:09 <andythenorth> @calc (18 * 2) / 8
19:59:28 <andythenorth> I wonder if the vehicle is taking too long to unload?
20:00:05 * andythenorth wonders what the window for 'produce on cargo arrival' is
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20:27:54 <andythenorth> persistent storage FTW :P
20:27:59 <andythenorth> can write vars to debug
20:28:20 <andythenorth> industry is only seeing 6t of cargo unloaded from a 72t vehicle
21:14:46 <andythenorth> @calc (6 * 2) / 8
21:14:54 <andythenorth> @calc (1.5 * 2) / 8
21:15:09 <andythenorth> everything is explained then :)
21:15:24 <andythenorth> except why it's only 6t :P
22:00:15 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc requested changes for pull request #7620: Fix: Various reliability and correctness improvements to MIDI on Windows https://git.io/fjKRN
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22:30:45 <andythenorth> not sure how to fix FIRS production
22:30:49 <andythenorth> must be possible...but eh
22:32:15 <supermop_work> perfect is the enemy of the good
22:32:54 <supermop_work> if firs industry produces something, good enough
22:38:28 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/DorpsGek-github] pyup-bot opened pull request #29: Scheduled monthly dependency update for July https://git.io/fjK0E
22:38:34 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/DorpsGek-irc] pyup-bot opened pull request #23: Scheduled monthly dependency update for July https://git.io/fjK0u
22:38:38 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/DorpsGek-runner] pyup-bot opened pull request #18: Scheduled monthly dependency update for July https://git.io/fjK0z
22:39:08 <andythenorth> that is the problem
22:39:20 <andythenorth> cargo is going in, but cargo is not coming out
22:41:38 <andythenorth> there's no trivial solution to this
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