IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2018-11-24
⏴ go to previous day
01:09:31 *** Maarten has joined #openttd
01:35:37 *** snail_UES_ has joined #openttd
02:11:55 *** WWacko1976-work has joined #openttd
03:13:35 *** Eddi|zuHause2 has joined #openttd
03:59:41 *** GroovyNoodle has joined #openttd
08:40:54 *** sushibear has joined #openttd
09:01:33 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd
09:17:00 <SpComb> github editor would work for fixing that
10:27:31 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd
11:00:15 *** matt21347 has joined #openttd
11:26:46 *** erratic has joined #openttd
11:36:56 *** Progman has joined #openttd
11:43:58 <LordAro> SpComb: not worrying about single character typos would also work
11:44:14 <LordAro> dwfreed: ^Spike^ or planetmaker, i think
11:52:39 *** erratic has joined #openttd
11:58:26 *** luxtram has joined #openttd
12:02:13 *** chomwitt has joined #openttd
12:05:15 <SpComb> well, it's worth fixing if you run across it, and it /could/ lead to more future contributions if they're methodological enough to grep for similar typos
12:10:37 *** erratic has joined #openttd
12:18:32 <andythenorth> we should so fix that
12:18:37 <andythenorth> procedural trees are fine
12:19:15 <andythenorth> 16 trees * 16 variants or something
12:19:32 <andythenorth> there are 12 trees in temperate
12:19:47 <Wolf01> I propose to save only player placed trees
12:20:09 <Wolf01> All the other are random, maybe just save the number on a given tile
12:20:11 <andythenorth> how many bits are currrently used for trees?
12:20:37 * andythenorth had better understand problem before inventing nonsense solutions :P
12:24:04 <andythenorth> there's a whole class?
12:24:40 <Wolf01> The count, growth stage counter
12:24:42 <andythenorth> landscape grid shows a lot
12:24:55 <andythenorth> but I don't know if that's just trees, or inherited other bits
12:25:35 <andythenorth> I count 20 in m2, m3, m5
12:25:57 <andythenorth> so my proposal for 256 states would need a byte, not saving much?
12:26:35 <Wolf01> The super useful tree owner 4 bits
12:26:56 <Wolf01> (that's tile wise luckily)
12:27:03 <andythenorth> is that tile owner?
12:27:24 <Wolf01> Landscape docs say it's almost always owner 10
12:27:26 <andythenorth> and m2 is also ground?
12:27:34 <andythenorth> so where is all this space being used?
12:28:44 <andythenorth> for deterministic trees, I don't see how to save much space there
12:28:52 <andythenorth> I don't care about deterministic trees tbh
12:29:27 <Wolf01> Neither do I, only if placed by hand, but even there you must have a lot of luck and they change over time anyway... so newobjects are the answer
12:29:51 <andythenorth> wonder why all the trees are gone in my current game
12:30:19 <andythenorth> I just planted some to check
12:30:32 <andythenorth> wondering if I have that broken forests patch applied
12:30:55 *** wodencafe has joined #openttd
12:32:13 <andythenorth> does savegame size matter?
12:32:31 <Wolf01> Also on the topic of loading, we have decided to drop support for loading maps from version 0.13 and 0.14 in the latest version, which mean when you get your hands on 0.17, you will only be able to migrate a save game from 0.15 or 0.16. However as it worked before, you can still download 0.16 to migrate from 0.13, then migrate from 0.16 to 0.17.
12:32:43 <Wolf01> <andythenorth> does savegame size matter? <- multiplayer
12:52:11 *** synchris has joined #openttd
12:59:25 <andythenorth> test mac ICU patch
13:56:49 <Eddi|zuHause2> <andythenorth> does savegame size matter? <-- mostly for multiplayer join time
14:32:43 <andythenorth> savegames are about 200KB
14:32:46 <andythenorth> where's the problem?
14:35:21 *** wodencafe has joined #openttd
14:46:17 *** luxtram has joined #openttd
14:59:37 <peter1138> andythenorth, I know right. Apparently some fools think 4096x4096 is a reasonable map size...
15:04:59 <Wolf01> I would like to play a 8192*8192 MMO map :P
15:19:13 <LordAro> Wolf01: don't you dare even suggest it :p
15:37:14 *** Eddi|zuHause2 is now known as Eddi|zuHause
17:03:46 *** matt21347 has joined #openttd
17:26:58 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai
17:34:12 <bmbbsr> Hi i am in Germany Q is there a setting on autorenew the trains im investing so many tiome to renew them
17:42:08 *** chomwitt has joined #openttd
17:45:31 *** ToBeFree is now known as Guest3799
17:45:31 *** ToBeFree has joined #openttd
17:56:27 *** snail_UES_ has joined #openttd
17:58:34 <snail_UES_> do you guys need it’s important to display the engine type (steam, electric, diesel…) in the engine name?
17:59:10 <snail_UES_> in other words, do you feel the need for a string like “ ‘XYZ’ (Steam)” as an engine name in the purchase list, instead of just “ ‘XYZ’ “?
18:02:11 <andythenorth> I do it because original TTD does it
18:02:15 <andythenorth> it's probably not important
18:03:22 <snail_UES_> yeah because then, one should also separate catenary vs 3rd rail vs other ways of electrification
18:03:46 <snail_UES_> and there are bimodal engines (diesel and electric)...
18:10:03 *** gelignite has joined #openttd
18:13:28 <andythenorth> I use 'electro-diesel' for bi-mode
18:33:34 *** Wacko1976 has joined #openttd
18:36:32 <andythenorth> I have lost my newgrf mojo :(
19:04:50 <snail_UES_> but electro-diesel might also mean a diesel engine with electric transmission...
19:04:59 <snail_UES_> i.e. as opposed to hydraulic or mechanical
19:20:38 <andythenorth> not in UK english
19:30:25 *** Wolf01 is now known as Guest3807
19:31:01 <andythenorth> I was going to colour scheme Horse
19:31:09 <andythenorth> all freight engines black, all fast engines 2CC
19:31:55 <andythenorth> I didn't colour code the diesel and electric engines
19:33:07 <andythenorth> maybe I just 2CC them all
19:48:00 *** luxtram has joined #openttd
19:55:19 <andythenorth> luxtram: still want game loop explained? o_O
19:57:55 <nielsm> 11:29:51 <andythenorth> wonder why all the trees are gone in my current game <-- I think the main reason trees disappear are farm fields (removed when an unserviced farm shuts down)
20:00:43 <nielsm> 18:04:50 <snail_UES_> but electro-diesel might also mean a diesel engine with electric transmission... <-- diesel-electric = diesel generator powering electric traction engines, electro-diesel = can also run off electrified track
20:02:08 <nielsm> 18:31:09 <andythenorth> all freight engines black, all fast engines 2CC <-- how about fast/passenger primary color is first CC, slow/freight primary color is second CC
20:04:14 <andythenorth> yes that's an option
20:04:20 <andythenorth> Road Hog does that somewhat
20:04:36 <andythenorth> the farm fields thing isn't relevant in my game, FIRS doesn't close farms
20:04:42 <andythenorth> there's some kind of tree bug
20:04:56 <andythenorth> I might have that forest patch applied, which is broken
20:06:56 <snail_UES_> I think generic train sets should always be 2cc.. that was the original TTD’s spirit
20:07:17 <nielsm> I've heard rumors before about maps deforesting just after running for a long time, but don't think I've observed it myself
20:07:23 <snail_UES_> everything in company colors
20:08:06 <nielsm> should make a debug logging of trees planted/removed each tick and graph it
20:10:25 <andythenorth> shall we just reimplement trees? :P
20:16:10 <Xaroth> peter1138 4k x 4k is actually rather small tbh.
20:16:55 <nielsm> btw when will my bunch of bugfix PR's get reviewed? :3
20:17:03 <peter1138> Unless you're openttdcoop, how many times does 4kx4k come close to even 5% full...
20:17:20 <Xaroth> it's not about how much is used
20:17:22 <peter1138> nielsm, when someone(tm) reviews them.
20:17:25 <Xaroth> it's about how much is available.
20:25:52 <planetmaker> peter1138, coop never does maps larger than 1k x 1k... too quickly too sluggish otherwise for no real benefit.
20:27:50 <peter1138> Right, but if anyone could fill it, they could :D
20:28:52 <andythenorth> oof, we need to do nml 16 cargo industry thing
20:29:00 <andythenorth> I am bored of drawing trains
20:39:36 <nielsm> andythenorth: you can test out some PR patches instead then :]
20:41:44 <andythenorth> my build is sketchy
20:42:32 <andythenorth> NotRoadTypes PR now fails the 3-months-and-dead rule
20:42:47 <andythenorth> means it should be closed
20:43:27 <andythenorth> Wolf01: ^ shall we close it?
20:43:33 <andythenorth> it's got a conflict I can't resolve
20:43:37 <andythenorth> I think it's dead tbh
20:44:53 *** wodencafe has joined #openttd
20:45:31 <andythenorth> hmm can't find the PRs for samu :P
20:48:00 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on pull request #6973: Add: Unique ID to savegames to prevent accidental overwriting https://git.io/fp0PQ
20:51:26 <LordAro> andythenorth: could close/merge his PRs :p
20:51:45 <andythenorth> I am going to close NRT
20:52:17 <nielsm> and many/all of Samu's PR's are imo in a "is this even something that needs to change at all?" state, i.e. should be reviewed on the concept and not the code itself
20:52:36 <andythenorth> when frosch reviewed some, they just weren't useful
20:52:44 <andythenorth> I think they're boil-the-ocean programming
20:52:48 <andythenorth> but samu does learn
21:00:46 <andythenorth> I make some food, then look at some PRs
21:00:46 *** Wacko1976_ has joined #openttd
21:00:59 <andythenorth> I won't close NRT without Wolf01 agreeing
21:01:11 <andythenorth> but I want it off my plate :P
21:10:07 <andythenorth> it's got merge conflicts
21:10:12 <andythenorth> I can't fix them, Wolf hasn't
21:10:34 <andythenorth> that isn't supposed to sound accusatory :P
21:57:06 <Eddi|zuHause> that sounds like "i want to drive home, but there's this tiny bump in the road"
21:57:55 <Wolf01> <andythenorth> I won't close NRT without Wolf01 agreeing <- close it, I don't have time, willpower, knowledge
21:59:06 <Wolf01> I tried to fix them, but my working copy can't load grfs successfully
21:59:09 <andythenorth> I'll look at the merge conflict first
21:59:39 <andythenorth> 2 of them are just html conflicts
22:00:29 <Wolf01> They aren't so difficult to fix
22:00:34 <andythenorth> there are about 6 that look less trivial
22:00:44 <andythenorth> the chances of me merging something I don't undersand
22:00:51 <andythenorth> into something I don't understand
22:00:52 <Eddi|zuHause> that page doesn't load?
22:01:26 <andythenorth> Wolf01: I'll leave it open, and if it's not fixed by 2019 I'll close the PR
22:01:30 <Eddi|zuHause> oh, just takes forever
22:01:32 <andythenorth> the problem is that it's bitrotting
22:01:38 <andythenorth> so everything breaks
22:02:02 <Eddi|zuHause> go back to a state that worked, and try again?
22:05:23 <Eddi|zuHause> by "try again" i mean in smaller steps that don't conflict
22:06:57 <andythenorth> presumably rebase on specific hashes would do that?
22:07:00 *** Wolf01 is now known as Guest3817
22:07:05 <andythenorth> we know the diffs where the breaks happen
22:07:16 <andythenorth> I'm not worried about how to bisect and pick through it
22:07:26 <andythenorth> but whether I take left or right is just a dice roll to me
22:07:37 <Wolf01> Meh, starts to disconnect again after 1.5 days of working flawlessly
22:08:26 <Eddi|zuHause> anyone know what a "throng" is? never heard that word before
22:09:21 <Wolf01> Seem to be a synonym for crowd
22:09:45 <LordAro> "a throng of people" is more or less "a large group of people"
22:25:50 *** nielsm is now known as Guest3818
22:53:41 *** wodencafe has joined #openttd
23:46:37 *** DrSegfault has joined #openttd
23:47:47 <DrSegfault> Hi, can anyone please help with https://imgur.com/a/5gkcJy4 ? The right train is entering while the train at the station is still there, and it's crashing.
23:48:40 <DrSegfault> Is this a bad signal constellation; can I fix it somehow?
23:49:05 *** ccfreak2k has joined #openttd
23:49:10 <LordAro> wouldn't expect that to cause a crash unless you'd told one of the trains the ignore a signal
23:51:05 <DrSegfault> I did somewhere in the past, but even when waiting a few trains to pass, trains crash again
23:51:42 <nielsm> what version of ottd? are you playing a patchpatch?
23:52:01 <nielsm> (e.g. something with "signals in tunnels")
23:52:43 <DrSegfault> nielsm: It's the official 1.8.0, no patches
23:55:22 <nielsm> hmm, try replacing those path signals with simple block signals
23:55:39 <nielsm> since there isn't really anything gained from them being path signals anyway
23:56:25 <DrSegfault> with block signals it works
23:57:06 <DrSegfault> they should be path signals, because while trains exit to the right track, trains from the top right track can already enter
continue to next day ⏵
