IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2018-11-12
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04:00:10 *** Gustavo6046 has joined #openttd
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12:30:30 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] planetmaker commented on issue #6967: BaNaNaS: Unhandled exception when uploading new https://git.io/fpqXp
12:37:38 <peter1138> Hmm, is it worth trying OpenLocomotion...
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13:19:00 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Balsiefen commented on issue #6967: BaNaNaS: Unhandled exception when uploading new https://git.io/fpqDd
13:19:42 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] planetmaker commented on issue #6967: BaNaNaS: Unhandled exception when uploading new https://git.io/fpqDp
13:22:40 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Balsiefen commented on issue #6967: BaNaNaS: Unhandled exception when uploading new https://git.io/fpqyZ
13:23:25 <planetmaker> must ... not ... reply ... no more. I'd loose curtosy
13:31:12 <LordAro> "closed won't fix <something about how bananas is old and broken and this is a known issue>. we can't teach you about commandline tools here, feel free to go to the forum to ask for help <link>"
13:53:51 <peter1138> What can I do with an old Raspberry Pi?
13:53:58 <peter1138> I'm thinking... bin it.
14:00:53 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Balsiefen commented on issue #6967: BaNaNaS: Unhandled exception when uploading new https://git.io/fpq9A
15:06:10 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth commented on issue #6967: BaNaNaS: Unhandled exception when uploading new https://git.io/fpqbD
15:17:43 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Balsiefen commented on issue #6967: BaNaNaS: Unhandled exception when uploading new https://git.io/fpqN5
15:39:42 <Sacro> peter1138: mine bitcoin
15:39:56 <Sacro> Put a stamp on it and shove it in the post
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19:04:49 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth closed issue #6967: BaNaNaS: Unhandled exception when uploading new https://git.io/fpqX6
19:04:51 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth commented on issue #6967: BaNaNaS: Unhandled exception when uploading new https://git.io/fpmnE
19:05:08 <andythenorth> peter1138: we have a pi too
19:05:23 <andythenorth> sits on a shelf, looking for a reason to exist
19:07:30 <andythenorth> I only really understand computers if there's a keyboard attached
19:07:56 <andythenorth> spectrum, Amiga, BBC, Acorn, laptop
19:08:05 <andythenorth> everything else is just a weird rectangular box
19:10:18 <nielsm> but, like, the RPi kinda _is_ an acorn, it sure does use an Acorn Risc Machine CPU
19:11:40 <andythenorth> that's like saying my phone is too :P
19:11:54 <andythenorth> what's a pi for?
19:12:02 <andythenorth> I miss the point
19:12:28 <andythenorth> so I worry my kids won't understand computing fundamentals
19:12:29 <nielsm> hobbyists who want a system with GPIO
19:12:46 <nielsm> since that's difficult to get on regular computers these days
19:12:50 <andythenorth> so I see them used in Lego automation projects, for example
19:13:08 <andythenorth> they seem to be pitched as educational, but it doesn't look like the computers I learnt with
19:13:17 <nielsm> (originally IBM compatibles had the parallel port which could be used for it, C64 had the user port, most others had something similar)
19:14:10 <andythenorth> BBC had parallel and serial iirc
19:14:34 <andythenorth> is there a USB implementation for general IO? o_O
19:16:14 <nielsm> but it might be difficult to get good timing on it
19:16:23 <nielsm> for more precision than perhaps 1/10 or 1/100 s
19:16:23 <frosch123> there is a usb spec for rs232 :p
19:16:39 <andythenorth> maybe I am interested
19:16:55 <andythenorth> I'd probably need a motor driver though
19:17:09 <andythenorth> just trying to control a motor directly with the 5v is probably very unwise
19:17:51 <andythenorth> I have no idea what the project is yet, but it should involve motors :P
19:18:05 <nielsm> yeah you absolutely need a separate power supply for that
19:18:14 <nielsm> and control via a transistor or relay or whatever
19:18:19 <nielsm> (I'm not really into electronics)
19:18:44 <andythenorth> this is already somewhat solved for lego with bluetooth interfaces
19:26:15 <Wolf01> Phone line owners called me and said there's a degraded cable and they should fix it in 2 days
19:27:01 <Wolf01> Probably they will put a patch and close the incident, and nothing will change for me
19:31:13 *** Wolf01 is now known as Guest2863
19:31:39 <Wolf01> And I keep writing while disconnected
19:48:50 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd
19:49:29 <andythenorth> so is it TrueBrain?
20:09:26 <TrueBrain> oeh, andythenorth did things :D
20:09:36 <TrueBrain> master branch would have been fine too btw :)
20:09:43 <frosch123> did anyone ever use LocalSettingsGenerator.php ?
20:10:26 <frosch123> i try to run it via "php Local...php", but nothing happens :s
20:10:36 <TrueBrain> it was years ago; not of much help :(
20:12:16 <frosch123> the file contains a single class
20:12:28 <TrueBrain> the openttd website will render a few nasty bad pages for the next few minutes .. just as a headsup
20:12:30 <frosch123> how do i load a php file and create an instance of an class?
20:12:47 <LordAro> sounds like you're not supposed to call it directly
20:13:40 <andythenorth> TrueBrain: so the website, it's not 'done', but first cut is done
20:13:51 <TrueBrain> andythenorth: nice :D Looks like a good start :D
20:14:01 <TrueBrain> I am going to see if I can fix the freaking BaNaNaS bla easily
20:14:05 <TrueBrain> it is most likely some stupid UTF-8 character
20:14:12 <TrueBrain> yup .. some \xd6 somewhere
20:14:17 <andythenorth> I have some questions for when (a) you're free to talk (b) I'm not eating dinner
20:14:34 <TrueBrain> a) I can predict, b) not so much
20:15:01 <TrueBrain> some field someone on the BaNaNaS upload page has UTF-8
20:15:42 <LordAro> LATIN CAPITAL LETTER O WITH DIAERESIS
20:16:02 <LordAro> but probably not, unless you've somehow got utf16
20:17:04 <TrueBrain> was that a lucky guess, or what? :P
20:17:22 <LordAro> i googled "unicode d6" :p
20:17:35 <TrueBrain> that is written in lowercase
20:17:42 <nielsm> anyone with tt-forums mod access? there's some spam again
20:18:38 <TrueBrain> it is just so shitty ... we fixed most of the utf-8 issues, but there is one .. that SOMETIMES popups up
20:18:42 <TrueBrain> MOSTLY disapears on its own
20:18:45 <TrueBrain> NO clue what causes it :P
20:18:51 <TrueBrain> (and given it is Django 1.2, .... :P)
20:21:12 <TrueBrain> I assume it is a dependency
20:23:18 <TrueBrain> I guess it was uploaded via musa or something odd
20:23:52 <TrueBrain> anyone know the author of the OBB set?
20:24:12 <andythenorth> so it fails to sanitise input?
20:24:20 <LordAro> the guy on github? (6967)
20:24:21 <andythenorth> or it's just unicode-not-aware?
20:24:27 <TrueBrain> it fails because MySQL was HORRIBLE in those days with utf-8
20:24:32 <TrueBrain> and Python2.6 was EVEN WORSE
20:24:34 <andythenorth> my python life used to be, another day, another unicode error
20:24:45 <andythenorth> we have py2.4 still in prod :P
20:24:47 <TrueBrain> those two together rarely were friends
20:24:52 <andythenorth> it's a horrible place
20:28:51 <frosch123> i would have expected oberhümer
20:29:05 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on issue #6967: BaNaNaS: Unhandled exception when uploading new https://git.io/fpmBi
20:29:19 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on issue #6940: Bananas - unhandled exception when updating grf https://git.io/fpmB1
20:29:36 <TrueBrain> lets see how long it takes before it breaks again :(
20:29:56 <TrueBrain> and I really should send a few devs to "how to reply politely in issues on public pages"
20:33:15 <andythenorth> at least we have a record of cause for next time :P
20:33:20 <andythenorth> I'll update forum thread
20:33:23 <TrueBrain> reason I write it down :)
20:36:10 <TrueBrain> tell the forum the BOFH finally did what he is not getting paid for
20:41:27 <TrueBrain> nice :) Descriptive, honest, complete
20:42:46 <andythenorth> maybe I could get a job doing this one day, if I work extra hard
20:42:48 <frosch123> i found install.php
20:43:03 <TrueBrain> frosch123: arent you following a manual?
20:43:07 <TrueBrain> or what are you trying to do?
20:43:09 <andythenorth> if I found a file called that, I would probably delete it
20:43:16 <andythenorth> I found some php on our dropbox once
20:43:18 <frosch123> i try to make a mediawiki docker
20:43:31 <frosch123> the existing dockerfiles i do not understand
20:43:40 <frosch123> and i did not find a manual :p
20:43:40 <TrueBrain> it is maintained by upstream
20:43:44 <TrueBrain> so we need to understand it? :P
20:43:51 <andythenorth> is it just an appliance?
20:44:09 <frosch123> so, i just stated with a debian slim, and took the debian package
20:44:12 <TrueBrain> andythenorth: the docker is
20:44:16 <frosch123> it did setup apache to serve it
20:44:29 <frosch123> but i need to create a mysql tablespace manually
20:44:31 <andythenorth> I have been waiting for the whole 'appliance' thing to actually pay off
20:45:01 <TrueBrain> I really installed mediawiki once .. and then I had to upgrade it once ... both took me over a day
20:45:06 <TrueBrain> especially with LDAP
20:45:11 <TrueBrain> so not of much help there :(
20:45:21 <TrueBrain> but there used to be an install manual of some sorts
20:48:34 <TrueBrain> andythenorth: you had questions?
20:48:50 <andythenorth> TrueBrain: yes, also I am nearly done with dinner
20:49:01 <TrueBrain> why is he talking while having dinner?!
20:49:19 <TrueBrain> who takes over 30 minutes for eating dinner?
20:54:17 <andythenorth> TrueBrain: also making xmas present lists with kids
21:05:50 <frosch123> i wonder whether i can disable the admin user
21:05:59 <frosch123> or whether to just set a random pw
21:07:12 <TrueBrain> OpenTTD has LDAP enabled and that allowed me to disable any other backend
21:07:21 <TrueBrain> took a few hacks, I remember
21:07:22 <andythenorth> TrueBrain: ok yo
21:07:26 <andythenorth> stuff and things
21:07:36 <frosch123> ok, so i should jsut continue installing the oauth extension
21:08:25 <andythenorth> 1) I found a bunch of relative links with //foo/bar
21:08:44 <andythenorth> which is (a) weird and (b) fails when compiled static and tested locally, so I changed them
21:08:50 <TrueBrain> if they start with // they are not relative :)
21:09:03 <TrueBrain> / means what-ever-protocol-you-were-on
21:09:09 <TrueBrain> hmm: // means what-ever-protocol-you-were-on
21:09:18 <TrueBrain> (so mostly either http or https)
21:09:21 <andythenorth> oh we call those protocol-relative
21:09:30 <LordAro> those require a domain though, right?
21:09:41 <TrueBrain> foo can be a domain :)
21:10:09 <TrueBrain> andythenorth: anyway, they were there to support openttd.org via both http and https
21:10:13 <andythenorth> anyway I've binned them, but they can be put back
21:10:20 <TrueBrain> but given we have no more media.openttd.org
21:10:21 <andythenorth> but then we can only QA in a live server
21:10:53 <TrueBrain> so you are most likely fine :)
21:11:18 <andythenorth> 2) the footer in prod knows if I'm logged in or not, kind of hard to do in a static compile :P
21:11:30 <andythenorth> it swaps 'login' to 'logout (username)'
21:11:41 <TrueBrain> we are going to remove both
21:11:49 <andythenorth> also the footer is shared across services, so do you want to do it as an ESI or something?
21:11:51 <TrueBrain> wiki, eints, etc will have their own login
21:12:07 <TrueBrain> mainly as it won't work
21:12:18 <TrueBrain> or we need to add JWT and a backend authorization server
21:12:23 <TrueBrain> but that sounds like a lot of work :P
21:12:30 <andythenorth> do simple things
21:12:46 <TrueBrain> and frosch123 is doing oauth, so that wont work at all anyway :)
21:12:56 <TrueBrain> simple is better, so that is a good thing :)
21:13:02 <andythenorth> 3) should privacy notice be on account.openttd like now, or on main openttd.org domain?
21:13:12 <TrueBrain> it isnt on the main?! :o
21:13:24 <TrueBrain> owh, you mean the page itself
21:13:36 <TrueBrain> yeah, sorry, misunderstood you
21:14:26 <andythenorth> 4) do we even like the screenshots page, before I reimplement it all in jekyll? o_O
21:14:41 <TrueBrain> I do, and I think it is important
21:14:48 <TrueBrain> it is one thing that annoys me most of anything
21:14:54 <andythenorth> keep the current format?
21:14:55 <frosch123> it could also be a wiki page, like "community"
21:14:56 <TrueBrain> of any website that shows a product
21:14:58 <frosch123> so other people can edit
21:14:59 <andythenorth> but make it less shit?
21:15:17 <TrueBrain> I really really really really dislike the wiki, but that is just me possibly :P
21:15:28 <andythenorth> I dislike all wikis :)
21:15:34 <frosch123> yes, it is shit, but everyone can edit it :)
21:15:34 <TrueBrain> I think if we put the screenshots on git too, it allows people to contribute more easy?
21:15:37 <andythenorth> the original wiki is great
21:15:49 <andythenorth> oops /me must not visit c2 now
21:15:53 <andythenorth> we are busy here
21:16:06 <TrueBrain> andythenorth: current format is fine by me; lets port first, improve later :)
21:16:19 <andythenorth> should I learn SASS and port the css?
21:16:22 <TrueBrain> the sooner we have it on github, the sooner people can really take a crack at it :P
21:16:28 <TrueBrain> again, port first :P
21:16:36 <TrueBrain> after that, go nuts :P
21:16:42 <andythenorth> 5) was SASS :P. I already ported what I think we need, and deleted some things
21:16:44 <TrueBrain> I once made a version without the PNGs too
21:16:49 <andythenorth> I might just leave the css alone mostly
21:17:02 <TrueBrain> with CSS3 that is very easy
21:17:10 <TrueBrain> but .. something for another day ;)
21:17:18 <andythenorth> 6) file endings, I had to add .html to paths, which is unusual these days
21:17:35 <andythenorth> that might need more explaining
21:17:41 <frosch123> when i run a database in docker...
21:17:50 <frosch123> where do i put the data on disk?
21:17:56 <andythenorth> so jekyll does a 1:1 compile of certain file types
21:17:57 <frosch123> in some folder outside the docker?
21:18:11 <TrueBrain> frosch123: most databases mention this, that you have to use -v for that, to some location you want persistant storage
21:18:33 <TrueBrain> s/databases/docker/
21:18:33 <andythenorth> my mac is confused by files without .html extensions (how we've advanced since old Macs that didn't need this)
21:18:52 <andythenorth> and Chrome is also confused by files without .html, no MIME type, so it treats it as plain text
21:18:55 <andythenorth> which makes testing hard
21:19:07 <andythenorth> and finally, my brain is confused by files without extensions, cos I don't what they are
21:19:11 <TrueBrain> andythenorth: I still dont really understand ..
21:19:16 <TrueBrain> why would you make files without an extension?
21:19:23 <TrueBrain> jekyll even wants files to have extensions?
21:19:29 <andythenorth> jekyll doesn't care
21:19:38 <TrueBrain> .md is compiled different over .html?
21:19:39 <andythenorth> but jekyll compiles 1:1 filenames
21:19:49 <TrueBrain> either way, no extensions is stupid
21:19:52 <TrueBrain> always give files extensions
21:19:55 <TrueBrain> tell people what they are
21:20:00 <andythenorth> so we end up with openttd.org/about.html
21:20:02 <TrueBrain> dont be like: data :P
21:20:05 <LordAro> unless they're executables :p
21:20:06 <andythenorth> instead of openttd.org/about
21:20:15 <TrueBrain> AH, you mean URLs :)
21:20:18 <andythenorth> urls don't need file extensions
21:20:21 <TrueBrain> holy crap :P That was a vague description :D
21:20:27 <LordAro> andythenorth: that's traditionally handled by the web server, not the files
21:20:29 <TrueBrain> I was thinking filepaths :D
21:20:44 <TrueBrain> sorry, totally misunderstood you completely
21:20:44 <andythenorth> the problem is that the filepaths become the url trailing part
21:20:54 <LordAro> is this where we need the distinction between URL & URI? :p
21:21:03 <andythenorth> do we handle that in web server then?
21:21:11 <TrueBrain> what-ever it is, not important for now :)
21:21:15 <andythenorth> it's 10 years since I dealt with anything like that
21:21:27 <TrueBrain> those minor gold-plating issues we can fix later
21:21:29 <andythenorth> I just use frameworks that serve on routes I define :P
21:21:39 <TrueBrain> for example, I would also much rather have the pages in .md, instead of .html :)
21:21:41 <TrueBrain> but that can be done later :P
21:21:45 <andythenorth> ok so conclusion, extensions are non-issue
21:22:00 <TrueBrain> extensions are no priority
21:22:10 <andythenorth> 7) server page will be done by TrueBrain, it contains only CABBAGE right now
21:22:39 <TrueBrain> I will fix that up when we get there :)
21:23:04 <andythenorth> 8) someone is going to magically make all blog content appear in a folder?
21:23:12 <andythenorth> I will make the template work
21:23:19 <TrueBrain> make 1 post look good
21:23:21 <TrueBrain> I will handle the rest
21:23:26 <andythenorth> we are like 50% done then
21:23:29 <andythenorth> but the easy 50%
21:23:44 <TrueBrain> and please, just put it in the master branch :P
21:23:46 <andythenorth> don't suppose we have a jenkins that builds this, running total validator, and visual diff? :P
21:23:58 <TrueBrain> you supposed correctly
21:24:10 <andythenorth> so I have to find all the 404s and invalid html manually :P
21:24:15 <TrueBrain> btw, 'permalink' is your way to fix your .html issue
21:24:16 <andythenorth> and check every page when I touch css
21:24:31 <andythenorth> what is LordAro doing anyway?
21:24:42 <TrueBrain> still reading my hackmd :(
21:25:07 <andythenorth> golden rule: nobody QAs there own work
21:25:13 <andythenorth> LordAro already found one bug in the website
21:25:39 <andythenorth> TrueBrain: that looks useful, Jekyll seems pretty good to mne
21:25:41 <TrueBrain> I will slowly work towards moving any push in 'master' to the staging automatically
21:25:50 <andythenorth> I will switch to master
21:26:02 <andythenorth> nobody wants to piss around rebasing all my commits to create fake history?
21:26:10 <TrueBrain> and I guess the CI will do shit like: spider through the website finding 404s
21:26:30 <TrueBrain> before we move to OpenTTD space, we will most likely flatten everything or something
21:26:36 <TrueBrain> depends on the mess we create
21:26:40 <andythenorth> I only do 2 kinds of commit: very atomic, 'I changed x', or 'I changed everything, don't ask'
21:26:43 <TrueBrain> but first, lets create a mess :)
21:27:15 <TrueBrain> this is agile; we first just shit around till we got something we like
21:27:21 <TrueBrain> than we do magic with it
21:27:24 <TrueBrain> and say: LOOK, SHINY
21:27:43 <TrueBrain> just dont force-push to master, that is all I ask you :)
21:28:35 <TrueBrain> put the branch protection on it, so you cant :P
21:28:38 <andythenorth> so in one place I get yelled at for not force-pushing
21:28:41 <TrueBrain> (a force push is not liked by a CD :D)
21:28:46 <andythenorth> and in the other place I get yelled at by force-pushing
21:28:57 <TrueBrain> .... force pushing as policy?
21:29:02 <TrueBrain> sounds like .. a broken system by design :D
21:29:15 <andythenorth> yair, peter1138 keeps reminding me what a fool I am for not doing
21:29:25 <andythenorth> when I try to make a PR for trunk ottd
21:29:56 <TrueBrain> (PRs by design are horrible for the average user)
21:30:03 <TrueBrain> it is one of the things gerrit gets right :)
21:30:05 <andythenorth> force push always catches me out, it's banned at work :P
21:30:29 <TrueBrain> it should be banned, yes :)
21:30:35 <TrueBrain> but ... PRs dont give you many other options
21:30:44 <TrueBrain> just continue committing, and squash at the end
21:30:48 <TrueBrain> that is one nice way to do it
21:31:10 <TrueBrain> either way, any more questions?
21:31:23 <andythenorth> first 50% took like 90 minutes
21:31:32 <andythenorth> so next 50% will be done by Jan 1st 2019
21:31:33 <TrueBrain> cool; nice job so far :) Happy we at least got the bus moving :)
21:31:50 <TrueBrain> I got pretty far with the infrastructure too
21:32:11 <TrueBrain> I have 1 more month of plenty of credits on DO to toy around
21:32:19 <TrueBrain> after that I hope we can switch to openttd.org account :P
21:32:35 <TrueBrain> and I see frosch123 is enjoying docker :)
21:32:43 <TrueBrain> I hope he figured out how database dockers work :)
21:33:22 <TrueBrain> anyway, I am off for the night. good night!
21:35:46 <andythenorth> nielsm: how's the new pax generation? o_O
21:36:07 <nielsm> still haven't played much but I think I like it
21:36:17 <nielsm> just the flat (low) is good really
21:36:57 <nielsm> but should really try to set up something with larger cities
21:37:46 * andythenorth needs to test :)
21:38:12 <nielsm> the way they overlap during turns
21:47:26 <LordAro> nielsm: i believe that's covered in known bugs
21:47:29 <andythenorth> the y offset looks too low in | view
21:47:34 <andythenorth> but it's hard to make correct
21:48:23 <andythenorth> in some angles, the default sprite sizes aren't 'correct' for the projection
21:48:31 <andythenorth> but they make nice lengths and easy maths :P
21:56:03 <andythenorth> apparently there's a formula I can use, Eddi tried to explain it
21:56:14 <andythenorth> but I can't figure out how to implement that
21:56:19 <andythenorth> so I have to do it by eye
21:56:19 <nielsm> also note that the roof on the loco has different colour in details window and world sprite
21:56:33 <andythenorth> yeah that sprite isn't finished :)
21:56:47 <nielsm> I keep picking the good ones!
21:57:04 <andythenorth> the docs tell which is finished, but it's not exactly an interesting read :)
22:09:16 <peter1138> Ok, mixed day today.
22:09:35 <peter1138> So I found out that Mint Daim bars exist, and got some, and they are good.
22:09:39 <peter1138> And then Stan Lee died.
22:10:07 <andythenorth> mint daim is mind-blowing idea, where were they found?
22:14:59 <peter1138> Maybe not that one.
22:15:31 <LordAro> (it's basically around the corner from me)
22:18:02 <andythenorth> oof I've wrecked my right thumb
22:18:05 <andythenorth> maybe from tank games :P
22:18:18 <andythenorth> this is impairing :P
22:19:22 <LordAro> maybe from drawing trains?
22:19:53 <LordAro> be hilarious if that were true, wouldn't it? :p
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