IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2018-11-11
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10:28:29 <nielsm> playing a bit with horse 2
10:42:55 <nielsm> (big bertha is correct when running eastwards)
10:43:05 <nielsm> (and braf correct westwards)
10:43:38 <nielsm> hmm no braf actually has some overlap when running westwards
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10:44:57 <nielsm> (this is with the old sprite sorter, not the optimised one)
10:54:05 <andythenorth> nielsm: I can save you a bit of time, all the steam engines are unfinished :)
10:54:18 <andythenorth> but the wagon alignment bug looks legit
10:54:53 <andythenorth> sprites are 80% complete
10:55:07 <andythenorth> all cargos, capacities, power, weights etc are believed complete
10:55:14 <andythenorth> run costs are done
10:55:27 <nielsm> purchase costs seem very low
10:55:28 <andythenorth> buy costs are 'done' but I think they have odd scaling
10:55:45 <andythenorth> they scale horribly high for later diesel / electric engines
10:55:54 <andythenorth> I think I need to raise floor and compress ceiling
10:55:59 <nielsm> I'd expect some 20-30% more at least for the early ones
10:56:19 <andythenorth> ok that's useful
10:56:27 <andythenorth> seems you can make the cost back in a couple of journeys
10:56:54 <nielsm> hmm, are metro trains finished?
10:56:59 <andythenorth> it's quite tricky scaling 'game start' costs
10:57:57 <nielsm> a serpentine+longwater combined train seemed to jump a pixel down when it turned around at a station
10:58:33 <andythenorth> my quest for the correct offsets continues :)
10:58:51 <nielsm> yep def. jumps up/down when turning around
10:58:54 <andythenorth> I am going to make some fake vehicles with alignment markers and fix them all, again
11:00:21 * andythenorth wonders if the game could have handled default offsets better for each lenght
11:00:38 <andythenorth> there are established dimensions for vehicles :P
11:06:46 <andythenorth> it should be a consistent bug for all 8/8 vehicles
11:07:00 <andythenorth> all the offsets are global constants
11:07:14 <andythenorth> but it is also possible that a sprite is obiwan in the spritesheet
11:09:11 <Wolf01> He must have mispelled "tanks" :P
11:39:00 <TrueBrain> hmm .. what is a good name for the main website ... 'www.openttd.org' feels weird
11:39:04 <TrueBrain> (the repository name)
11:39:57 <TrueBrain> guess there could be several websites
11:40:29 <TrueBrain> guess you also get stuff like a part that handles the downloads
11:40:47 <TrueBrain> ottd_content is part of that .. so guess that could also just be its name
11:41:12 <TrueBrain> meh, 'website' will do for now
11:44:24 <Wolf01> Lol, I'm again with the phone line out of service
11:44:43 <Wolf01> They have serious problems, really
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13:23:58 <TrueBrain> I renamed the repo to OpenTTD-website
13:24:03 <TrueBrain> I got annoyed by the name
13:24:13 <andythenorth> it was annoying me too
13:25:08 <Xaroth> and I thought I was the only one with OCD.
13:25:34 <andythenorth> did you check everywhere Xaroth?
13:25:42 <andythenorth> are you sure you checked properly?
13:28:17 <andythenorth> TrueBrain: I will try and get some commits for website soon
13:28:35 <andythenorth> I have no spare time to focus on anything last few days :P
13:30:36 <TrueBrain> I am trying to understand kubernetes
13:30:39 <TrueBrain> which is ...... a lot to take in
13:53:08 <TrueBrain> automatically generated valid TLS certificates \o/
13:54:36 <frosch123> less automatic dns :p
13:55:11 <TrueBrain> btw, does anyone mind if I drop HTTP support? HTTPS only?
13:55:26 <frosch123> i cannot resolve the hostname
13:56:45 <TrueBrain> hostname is propegated correctly throughout the world ... I have no clue why it wouldnt for you?
13:56:47 <frosch123> eddi is the only one using weird browsers, and he's not here
13:57:23 <frosch123> everyone else should be fine with http
13:57:39 <TrueBrain> the world is deprecating http, so .. I guess we should too
13:57:45 <TrueBrain> does leave an issue in the OpenTTD client :P
13:57:49 <TrueBrain> but we will tackle that when-ever :)
13:59:02 <TrueBrain> frosch123: can you use 'dig' or something to see why your DNS is failing on you?
14:03:29 <TrueBrain> can you do a dig on staging.truebrain.nl ?
14:04:05 <frosch123> took some time somewhere
14:04:10 <TrueBrain> ah, the slave NS isnt replicated correctly
14:08:16 <TrueBrain> hmm, seems that has been broken for a few months; tnx for noticing frosch123 :D
14:11:06 <TrueBrain> secondary DNS changed the IP with which they initiate a transfer ... and didnt tell me about it :P
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14:39:10 <TrueBrain> I like DigitalOcean more and more, the more I use it
14:39:22 <TrueBrain> their simplicity in interface/services is a welcome surprise
14:42:18 <andythenorth> we can afford it, yes?
14:42:31 <TrueBrain> that does appear to be the case
14:42:36 <TrueBrain> slowly building up to see where we end up
14:43:03 <andythenorth> money never seems to be the issue
14:43:14 <andythenorth> but I think we could raise more donations than we do (I assume)
14:43:31 <TrueBrain> we havent actively run for donations in years :P
14:43:42 <TrueBrain> but still people really enjoy donating, which is a good thing
14:43:46 <TrueBrain> people always surprise me :)
14:45:03 <TrueBrain> some things I do not understand .. you can get a Space, which is, from my understanding, a CDN
14:45:11 <TrueBrain> costs 5 dollar for 1TB bandwidth
14:45:17 <SpComb> just make the suggestions forum pay-to-post
14:45:21 <TrueBrain> it costs 0.01 dollar per GB overusage
14:45:37 <TrueBrain> you can buy multiple spaces, and the bandwidth is shared
14:45:51 <TrueBrain> so ... buying 2 spaces gives me 2 TB for 10 dollar .. while it costs 10 dollar for 1 TB if you pay the overusage
14:46:53 <frosch123> TrueBrain: why weird?
14:46:59 <frosch123> it would be weird the other way around
14:47:17 <TrueBrain> what is weird about it, that it appears that if you buy 2 Spaces, you get 2TB in total
14:47:55 <frosch123> so bandwidth is cheaper when you buy it in advance (not knowing whether you will need it all), compared to buying it when needed
14:48:16 <TrueBrain> okay, but why can I not buy it upfront in a single space
14:48:23 <TrueBrain> why do I need to buy an unused second?
14:52:34 <SpComb> I'm trying to modernize our Jenkins at work, but the multibranch pipelines still leave a lot to be desired
14:52:56 <TrueBrain> Jenkins is getting really behind
14:52:59 <TrueBrain> it is really annoying
14:53:48 <frosch123> "behind" compared to what? to hudson, or what is the new kid on the block?
14:53:59 <SpComb> something like GitHub checks support for Jenkins doesn't sound like it's going to ever happen, considering how problematic the maintenance of even existing GitHub-related Jenkins plugins is
14:54:30 <TrueBrain> hudson is the old kid on the block frosch123 ;)
14:54:48 <TrueBrain> I was horrified by the GitHub plugins :P I ran away quickly
14:55:03 <TrueBrain> frosch123: cloud solutions (so if you dont want to be onpremise) are so much better, and there are tons of them
14:55:17 <TrueBrain> and slowly you see onpremise solutions poping up
14:55:31 <frosch123> yes, i live in a world where everyone switched from hudson to jenkins. but in my world people also use svn :)
14:55:39 <TrueBrain> Jenkins did publish 2 months ago or something that they are going to change gears, to allow new development .. but I wonder if they can catch up tbh
14:55:55 <TrueBrain> if you just look at what GitHub Actions is going to be
14:56:01 <TrueBrain> you won't need a Jenkins anymore
14:56:08 <TrueBrain> GitLab CI, similar story
14:56:15 <TrueBrain> (GitLab CI is REALLY awesome btw)
14:56:26 <TrueBrain> and Jenkins Pipelines are kinda the worst thing ever
14:56:35 <TrueBrain> it already supports 2 languages, and a third is in the making
14:56:53 <SpComb> first I hear of GitHub actions
14:57:06 <TrueBrain> I am very annoyed it is not released yet :P
14:57:40 <frosch123> never pre-order video games :p
15:00:17 <SpComb> my current gripe with jenkins multibranch pipelines: it never cleans up the workspaces
15:16:36 <TrueBrain> okay .. so depoying to staging works .. now I just need to add the glue that does this on GitHub commit :D
16:38:30 <TrueBrain> one downside of wanting to run a 'staging', that it doubles your operation costs, give or take :P
16:38:57 <TrueBrain> guess 'staging' will be more of a 'dev' :)
16:54:18 <LordAro> TrueBrain: anything exciting happening?
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16:58:05 <TrueBrain> LordAro: read up, I would say :P Depends on your definition on "exciting"
16:58:12 <TrueBrain> still waiting for your feedback on the hackmd url btw :P :P
17:01:58 <LordAro> oh yes, i still have that tab open
17:18:22 <peter1138> How can a utility to write disk images to a memory card run to 62MB?
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18:39:50 <andythenorth> I have drawn no pixels and written no code
18:43:37 <Xaroth> peter1138: 62MB sounds small if it's a JS lib.
18:44:04 <andythenorth> when did JS get filesystem IO? :P
18:44:23 <andythenorth> I assume node or something
18:44:38 <Xaroth> but js' packaging system is notoriously bloat
18:44:55 <andythenorth> unlike anyone else's :)
18:45:17 <Xaroth> there's bloat and there's js :P
18:47:26 <LordAro> it's interesting how all languages with "good" package systems tend towards bloat
18:47:33 <LordAro> rust is one i noticed recently
18:47:53 <TrueBrain> those with bad package systems too, no worries :D
18:48:22 <LordAro> people are less likely to depending on unnecessary libraries if it's difficult to add a dependency :p
18:48:43 <Xaroth> it also depends on the quality of your stdlib
18:49:24 <TrueBrain> isn't the bloat propotional to the popularity?
18:49:59 <LordAro> i don't see issues with C++ & Java
18:50:04 <TrueBrain> and isn't it simply a given? The more people work on shit, the more shit you get?
18:50:06 <LordAro> not that i have much experience with the latter
18:50:09 <TrueBrain> you don't with Java? Lolz :D
18:50:16 <TrueBrain> try .. the Spring framework
18:50:18 <TrueBrain> enjoy your bloat :D
18:50:35 <Xaroth> Java is pretty much bloat by its core
18:50:37 <LordAro> individual libraries are bloated, sure
18:50:44 <Xaroth> so relatively there's not much bloat in java :P
18:50:44 <TrueBrain> the dep-tree too, no worries :)
18:50:45 <LordAro> i'm referring to the number of dependencies
18:50:59 <TrueBrain> so I am scared to shit because of vspkg :)
18:51:06 <TrueBrain> I am very happy with it :)
18:51:12 <TrueBrain> but ..... here comes the dep-hell :D
18:52:57 <Xaroth> simple operation, left-padding stuff
18:53:04 <Xaroth> ... it has a dependency, to repeat a string.
18:53:09 <LordAro> that's not leftpad...
18:58:15 <TrueBrain> that means I now only have to glue GitHub to that, somehow
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20:01:51 <TrueBrain> so I can make a Docker which manages the k8s from a pod inside the k8s .. well, that will be fun to do :D
20:29:40 <andythenorth> seems to have a chicken-egg problem
20:32:11 <TrueBrain> yup :) Means you have to do something manually once :)
20:43:54 <TrueBrain> okay, k8s is cool :D
20:45:56 <andythenorth> if I put kids to bed, maybe I can get jekyll to build an ottd page with static asset paths fixed
20:57:13 <andythenorth> hmm got a jekyll layout
21:06:50 <andythenorth> TrueBrain: are we still supporting rss feeds?
21:08:17 <andythenorth> and shall I convert the css to SASS
21:12:38 <andythenorth> TrueBrain: can I commit into master of website repo?
21:52:05 <andythenorth> the website is getting redesigned :P
21:56:10 <andythenorth> only to remove stupidity
21:56:23 <andythenorth> what was sensible in 2004 is stupid in 2018 :)
21:56:36 <andythenorth> we have box shadow for starters :P
22:00:45 <LordAro> aye, i've noticed that before
22:02:40 <FLHerne> What do you have againt box-shadow?
22:04:48 <LordAro> precisely the opposite
22:05:57 <FLHerne> The box-shadow-like effect is implemented using some form of archaic magic?
22:06:34 <LordAro> not sure i'd describe it as magic...
22:08:15 <LordAro> go look for yourself :p
22:09:07 <nielsm> well css background images, at least not tables ;)
22:11:48 <andythenorth> it's fine for the time
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22:16:26 <andythenorth> dunno how to show progress
22:17:06 <andythenorth> needs a jekyll install
22:19:11 <Xaroth> <blink> was at some point also a thing.
22:21:24 <andythenorth> anyone built the website yet then? o_O
22:29:21 <andythenorth> did we ever find out who our translation manager is?
22:29:24 <andythenorth> and are they are 'he'
22:34:12 <LordAro> andythenorth: i have built it!
22:34:25 <LordAro> i'm pretty sure i'm doing ruby wrong
22:35:30 <andythenorth> I kep instructions locally
22:35:40 <andythenorth> it wasn't as simple as it should be :P
22:35:59 <LordAro> some insane incantation of gem install & bundle install & bundle exec
22:36:47 <LordAro> oh, and i had to alter _config.yml to exclude my vendor dir
22:36:48 <andythenorth> the bundle doesn't link
22:37:23 <andythenorth> for those playing at home, this reproducibly worked for me
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22:40:48 <andythenorth> ok I've converted the majority of pages to Jekyll template
22:40:58 <andythenorth> TrueBrain is ghosting me, so I can't tell him
22:41:24 <andythenorth> TrueBrain never sleeps
22:42:15 <andythenorth> anyway, everything is pushed
22:42:25 <andythenorth> it makes some assumptions about urls and stuff that I'd like to improve
22:42:28 <andythenorth> but eh, websites
22:42:54 <LordAro> add a `--path vendor` to bundle install
22:44:21 <andythenorth> I need to do screenshots next
22:44:32 <andythenorth> jekyll can handle them, but they're pretty meh imho
22:44:46 <LordAro> the nav bar isn't highlighting the current page
22:44:59 <andythenorth> that will need vars inserted
22:45:06 <andythenorth> or javascript that detects current url :P
22:45:12 <andythenorth> good spot though
22:45:14 <LordAro> the latter, probably :p
22:45:32 <andythenorth> front matter vars
22:46:05 <andythenorth> or maybe the templating language can detect current filename, but that's flakey
22:46:23 <LordAro> i feel like it should be able to
22:47:35 <andythenorth> title seems a better bet than filename
22:47:46 <andythenorth> I can't be arsed to learn the logic syntax tonight :)
22:47:51 <andythenorth> is nearly bedtime
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