IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2018-08-24
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13:01:47 <Samu_> if I have a variable like this...
13:01:56 <Samu_> and then I do a comparison like this...
13:02:11 <Samu_> if (profit + AIVehicle.GetProfitThisYear(i) > best_profit) {
13:02:20 <Samu_> what is the value of best_profit?
13:04:27 <planetmaker> if you don't assign any value: most likely.
13:04:47 <planetmaker> but you should be explicit about it
13:05:15 <planetmaker> local int best_profit = 0;
13:05:35 <Samu_> hmm problem is that the profit could be negative and I'm comparing if it's > 0
13:05:50 <Samu_> i need a different solution
13:06:32 <planetmaker> you're not interested in a profit < 0 anyway, are you?
13:06:58 <planetmaker> so a list of loss-making connections is somewhat useless :P
13:07:16 <planetmaker> and only remembering those which have at least some profit would probably suffice
13:07:56 <planetmaker> you just have to remember to check that you actually *did* select a route afterwards
13:08:42 <planetmaker> otherwise, there might be constant like MIN_INT or so
13:08:52 <planetmaker> or INT_MIN. Whatever. Or make that yourself.
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13:13:39 <Samu_> if (best_profit == null || profit > best_profit) { best_profit = profit; }
13:15:39 <Samu_> local best_profit = null;
13:15:46 <Samu_> there, explicitly said it to be null
13:16:42 <LordAro> use something like -1 or some other "default value"
13:17:16 <LordAro> INT_MIN or whatever squirrel's equivalent is
13:17:30 <Samu_> i don't know, never seen it anywhere
13:18:45 <LordAro> integers in squirrel are 32bits
13:22:14 <LordAro> -10000 would likely do
13:23:43 <Wolf01> Just change the "if" accordingly
13:23:44 <Samu_> if it's null, it means there was not enough time for a vehicle to make a difference
13:24:00 <Samu_> so I am adding more vehicles
13:24:24 <Samu_> and i don't like that number, i stop adding vehicles
13:25:16 <Samu_> what is the number that I won't like... that is the question
13:30:41 <Samu_> perhaps this is the wrong approach, will test to see what the final behaviour is
13:35:54 <Wolf01> Maybe it's time you start to ask questions (even to yourself) like: "I expect profit to be negative?"
13:36:37 <Wolf01> You can't code just by guessing
13:37:11 <Wolf01> Maybe at the 15th guess you get it right, but that's not the way
13:37:32 <Samu_> if (best_route_profit != null && best_route_profit < 10000) continue;
13:37:52 <Samu_> continue means don't add more vehicles to this route
13:38:55 <Samu_> if i dont use 10000, i dunno how am i gonna compute a value that I don't like
13:40:57 <Samu_> i think i better copy paste for u to see
13:41:10 <Wolf01> I don't even know how to reply
13:58:45 <Samu_> well, it's working out okayish
13:59:37 <Samu_> the goal was to remove "unprofitable" routes
13:59:51 <Samu_> instead of keeping on adding aircraft to them
14:00:07 <Samu_> but... i guess 10000 is too harsh of a limit
14:00:37 <Samu_> once the route gets 0 aircraft, the airports are eliminated
14:01:38 <Samu_> I gotta find a different approach on getting the value I don't like
14:02:48 <Samu_> I want it to learn that value
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16:08:38 <andythenorth> so are water tunnels done yet? :)
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16:48:10 <Eddi|zuHause> water tunnels might work if we have more/better ship classes
16:49:21 <Eddi|zuHause> something like: small (1/2 tile wide), medium (1 tile wide), large (2 tiles wide)
16:49:36 <Eddi|zuHause> then tunnels can be limited to small, or small+medium, or something
16:50:32 <Eddi|zuHause> and we need to construct ships out of smaller sprites, to reduce the glitching
16:51:44 <Eddi|zuHause> so each sprite has a bounding box max 1/2 tile in each dimension
17:06:31 <Samu_> damn, the estimator is failing
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17:39:19 <andythenorth_> We Built This City (On Rock and Roll)?
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18:42:22 <andythenorth> hmmm is newgrf town control implemented or just a wiki page?
18:43:27 <andythenorth> I am dreaming up a FIRS economy :)
18:43:58 <andythenorth> Extreme will be deleted
18:44:44 <andythenorth> Better Living Through Chemistry is 1 of 2 that replace extreme
18:44:57 <andythenorth> theme should be obvious :p
18:45:09 <andythenorth> the other needs a name
18:45:54 <andythenorth> theme is delivery to towns, with the main production chains being food and building materials
18:46:58 <Samu_> i'm doing better in a 4k map, finally
18:47:24 <Samu_> it had some horrible start before
18:49:44 <Alberth> no fish in the economy, probably?
18:50:34 <andythenorth> Fish seems to be inevitable in all economies
18:51:47 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't think you can put an "s" on "Hinterland"
18:52:35 <Samu_> what is current usage supposed to mean in the vehicle list window?
18:52:48 <andythenorth> it has been done in English
18:53:20 <Eddi|zuHause> i mean, i would see it as an uncountable noun
18:53:21 <Alberth> Analogous terms include "the countryside", "the sticks", "the boonies", backcountry, boondocks, the Bush (in Alaskan usage), and the outback (in Australian usage)
18:54:38 <Alberth> It's an area, so that makes sense
18:54:53 <Eddi|zuHause> Alberth: but those words are for a different meaning
18:55:00 <andythenorth> I am thinking more about the rural areas in the shadow of a city
18:55:14 <andythenorth> hinterland seems to be contested meaning :)
18:55:34 <Eddi|zuHause> well, it's somewhat of a derived meaning
18:58:20 <andythenorth> it’s likely not a good name :)
18:59:04 <Alberth> "The soul of India lives in its villages", declared M. K. Gandhi :)
18:59:18 <Samu_> this is weird, i didn't expect wormai to have such a bad start
19:00:10 <Eddi|zuHause> also somewhat common name in germany is "Umland"
19:00:31 <Eddi|zuHause> which might be more fitting for cities which are not ports
19:00:36 <andythenorth> (pet shop boys song)
19:00:48 <Eddi|zuHause> no, suburbs are something different
19:01:20 <andythenorth> what is the theme of this economy?
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19:04:15 <andythenorth> it will have lots of black holes
19:04:19 <Eddi|zuHause> anyway, "um" means (in this case) "around"
19:05:13 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't think the term "black hole" is widely understood in the user base
19:05:57 <Alberth> indeed, unless you talk about those things lots of light years away
19:06:40 <andythenorth> what cargos can be collected from town?
19:07:00 <Alberth> can't you have a name related to the city-builders?
19:07:03 <Eddi|zuHause> give mail a purpose?
19:07:18 <andythenorth> I wondered about a city building name
19:07:20 <Alberth> "Mail with a purpose"
19:07:27 <andythenorth> like We Built This City
19:07:38 <andythenorth> it has to be a book or song or film
19:08:16 <Alberth> city construction kit
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19:10:53 <Alberth> City trading (variation on title of chapter 5)
19:11:33 <andythenorth> sounds a bit like stock markets :p
19:12:01 <Eddi|zuHause> "Schöner Wohnen"
19:12:23 <andythenorth> so city produced cargos?
19:12:52 <andythenorth> - recyclables -> various cargos
19:13:23 <andythenorth> - “anaerobic digestate” -> farm supplies
19:13:29 <Eddi|zuHause> each house accepts and produces a random cargo, and they move around all the time, making managing routes a nightmare :p
19:13:51 <andythenorth> 16 randomised cargos :p
19:15:08 <Eddi|zuHause> "private mail", "business mail", "packages", "same-day-delivery"
19:15:50 <andythenorth> child #1 is keen that I add more processing industries in town
19:16:03 <andythenorth> like small factories and such
19:16:21 <Eddi|zuHause> yeah like bakery, brewery and stuff
19:16:53 <Eddi|zuHause> make the industries smaller (2x2, 1x3) and enforce nearby houses
19:16:58 <andythenorth> small factories are completely legit
19:17:18 <andythenorth> but producing what?
19:17:46 <andythenorth> photographic supplies?
19:17:47 <Alberth> refurbished furniturem 2nd hand goods
19:18:03 <Eddi|zuHause> various consumer goods
19:18:09 <andythenorth> pets and tropical fish?
19:18:12 <Eddi|zuHause> you wanted to split up goods anyway?
19:18:23 <andythenorth> yes, goods needs split here
19:18:43 <Eddi|zuHause> jewelry, clothes, watches
19:19:03 <andythenorth> but most commodity industrial cargos need to come from ports
19:19:47 <Eddi|zuHause> no mining, raw materials are imported
19:20:08 <andythenorth> maybe coal mines
19:20:13 <Eddi|zuHause> there are no mines near Hamburg, London, New York, ...
19:20:44 <andythenorth> you have a point
19:20:59 <andythenorth> but I want to include bdmt commodities
19:21:09 <andythenorth> sand, limestone etc
19:21:59 <Eddi|zuHause> clay->bricks, wood->timber
19:22:26 <andythenorth> cement imported?
19:22:41 <Alberth> pre-fabricated houses
19:22:48 <Eddi|zuHause> nah, leave the imports to metal, coal, oil, whatever
19:22:54 <andythenorth> major cities are highly dependent on their ports
19:23:12 <Eddi|zuHause> so cement is local
19:24:14 <Eddi|zuHause> Alberth: i don't think much steel has been transported by air bridge :p
19:25:25 <andythenorth> how did I miss that UK cement uses a lot of chalk?
19:25:34 <Alberth> Eddi: steel may have been looking a lot like an aircraft :p
19:25:46 <andythenorth> that would rebalance limestone, which is over-demanded
19:26:18 <andythenorth> but I’d have to draw a quarry :x
19:26:40 <Alberth> there is a toffee quary :p
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19:53:47 <Samu_> Wormnest: are you there? is your ai supposed to be bad in 4k maps (aircraft only)
19:55:36 <Samu_> i need to test this solo
20:02:08 <peter1138> Everything is bad in 4k maps.
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20:08:33 <Wormnest> Samu_: It´s not optimized for 4k by default at least but might also depend on other settings
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20:09:14 <andythenorth> scrap tyres? -> burnt as fuel
20:09:39 <Samu_> relatively easy settings
20:09:40 <andythenorth> scientific instruments?
20:09:41 <Alberth> we have those already!
20:10:05 <Alberth> scrap tyres could just be fuel imho
20:10:15 <Samu_> no infrastructure costs
20:10:48 <Samu_> reduced plane crashes, aircraft speed 1/4
20:10:57 <andythenorth> demolition rubble -> crushed for aggregate
20:11:11 <Samu_> 500k max loan, low running costs, low construction costs
20:11:13 <Wormnest> Maybe it needs longer to get up to speed
20:12:24 <Samu_> i saw him choosing some same towns as my version of ludiai
20:12:42 <Samu_> and they pick the same :(
20:13:07 <Wormnest> Well maybe because they both think those are the best choices
20:13:22 <Samu_> aha, i see him doing much better as solo
20:13:31 <Samu_> fast forwarding 4k maps is a bit slow
20:14:23 <Samu_> oh, its decreasing again
20:15:27 <Samu_> comparing side by side as solo
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20:17:52 <Samu_> and with this, i might consider my "fix" of ludiai finished
20:17:58 <andythenorth> satellites -> launch site?
20:18:01 <Samu_> it's doing better than anticipated
20:18:05 <andythenorth> too much kerbal?
20:18:20 <Wolf01> With actual launch of rockets?
20:19:13 <Wormnest> It might do better with the introduction of large airports/airplanes
20:20:01 <LordAro> andythenorth: never enough
20:21:18 <Wormnest> So are you going to publish your version of ludiai?
20:22:08 <Samu_> I'm not sure I can do that
20:22:23 <Samu_> licenses stuff and whatnot
20:23:19 <Samu_> it says gpl 2.0, but i never seen the original author in the forum at all
20:23:29 <Samu_> feels wrong to publish it
20:23:44 <LordAro> as long as you also release under gpl, there's no issue
20:23:50 <LordAro> i'd probably want to rename it or something
20:24:25 <Wormnest> strike that LordAro was faster in typing lol
20:27:13 <Samu_> it builds too many helistations though
20:29:24 <Wormnest> Well you can always improve it in a new version
20:35:11 <peter1138> 19:12 < Samu_> and they pick the same :(
20:35:22 <peter1138> you need to add some random heuristic so stop that.
20:38:53 <Samu_> wormai is upgrading airports :p
20:40:26 <Samu_> ludiai doesn't upgrade airports, it just stops building vehicles for that route, and sells vehicles when they're old, and if it finds empty airports, it destroys them, and then it will probably build a hopefuly better airport after
20:41:56 <Alberth> that's named "future extension" :p
20:43:34 <Samu_> well, it only does this to the small airport, to be honest
20:43:53 <Alberth> "partially implemented" :)
20:53:00 <Samu_> FFP Dart is available now
20:56:03 <Samu_> seems that the min and max distances are nearly on-target now
20:57:12 <Samu_> probably gonna need a better looking at it, but so far, the results are impressing me
21:00:25 <Samu_> in a single month, wormai doubled the profit
21:00:33 <Samu_> ffp dart must have helped
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22:01:55 <andythenorth> I can’t reliably adjust house carhos, right?
22:02:17 <andythenorth> except by making my own house grf?
22:04:24 <andythenorth> parcels would make more sense if accepted by houses
22:05:03 <andythenorth> hmm, what if openttd towns didn’t have sewers or mains gas? o_O
22:05:19 <andythenorth> septic tanks -> foul water
22:09:37 <Alberth> fork swedish houses? :)
22:10:50 <Alberth> or supply a patch, and hope it is accepted
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23:08:36 <Samu_> hmm, the min and max distances are overly inflated :(
23:09:04 <Samu_> i knew this would not gonna work in the long run
23:13:46 <Samu_> The goal is to have it compute the optimal [min, max] distances for a route
23:14:23 <Samu_> so that whenever it attempts to build a new route, the range fits between those values
23:15:16 <Samu_> any ideas how to do this?
23:18:38 <Samu_> regardlessl, it's still increasing profits, but I'm starting to get many vehicles being sent to depots
23:19:13 <Samu_> a closed route will change the min value
23:19:26 <Samu_> it's been increasing way too much :(
23:19:56 <Samu_> i'm getting range intervals of 1936-2514
23:20:06 <Wolf01> Making self playing games which play too much well
23:20:08 <Samu_> that's too many tiles for a route
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23:32:55 <Samu_> perhaps i need a different approach
23:39:40 <Samu_> it's funny, the profits still keep rising...
23:39:50 <Samu_> i was expecting them to stall at some point
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