IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2018-08-23
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00:01:07 <Samu> 7>d:\openttd\openttd essentials\shared\include\dmerror.h(12): warning C4005: 'FACILITY_DIRECTMUSIC': macro redefinition (compiling source file ..\src\music\dmusic.cpp) 7> C:\Program Files (x86)\Windows Kits\8.1\Include\shared\winerror.h(162): note: see previous definition of 'FACILITY_DIRECTMUSIC' (compiling source file ..\src\music\dmusic.cpp)
00:02:13 <peter1138> You need to remove the dmusic stuff from your essentials
00:02:43 <Samu> 7>..\src\tunnelbridge_cmd.cpp(719): warning C4267: 'argument': conversion from 'size_t' to 'uint', possible loss of data
00:04:23 <Samu> my essentials were downloaded
00:04:41 <Samu> don't know if there is a newer essentials
00:04:59 <Samu> not sure what im supposed to do
00:05:23 <peter1138> You need to remove the dmusic stuff from your essentials
00:07:35 <Eddi|zuHause> ok, so wine for steam status: 4/5 games run, 2 of them need additional configuration, some have sound issues
00:08:06 <Eddi|zuHause> but the feature itself is great
00:08:12 <Samu> #define FACILITY_DIRECTMUSIC 0x878 /* Shared with DirectSound */
00:08:37 <peter1138> No, the whole files.
00:08:58 <Samu> well, no idea which files they are
00:10:42 <glx> I don't remember dmusic being in essentials
00:11:10 <glx> but we used to require a very old dxsdk
00:11:21 <glx> this one can be uninstalled
00:25:55 <LordAro> Samu: they're only warnings, they don't particularly matter
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09:54:55 <Samu> i just noticed something, faster planes crash more often because they land more times
09:57:25 <Arveen> working as intended, heh
09:58:06 <Alberth> use them for longer distances :)
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10:21:50 <Samu> i took my version of ludiai for a 100 year test, and there are issues
10:22:02 <Samu> big towns, like 40k population
10:22:13 <Samu> make it really slow at locating an airport
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10:34:02 <andythenorth> garden centre industry?
10:34:11 <andythenorth> accepts peat, seeds
10:34:24 <andythenorth> supplies gardens
10:38:27 <andythenorth> “Anaerobic digestate”
10:38:53 <andythenorth> that’s quite a technical euphemism
10:39:13 <andythenorth> for use on farm fields
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10:44:44 <andythenorth> water treatment plant
10:45:01 <andythenorth> accepts chlorine, soda ash
10:45:17 <andythenorth> produces anaerobic digestate
10:49:57 <andythenorth> “urban organic waste digestates”
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10:59:16 <andythenorth> so is compost, sewage etc “Better Living Through Chemistry” eh?
10:59:26 <andythenorth> or something else
11:11:45 <planetmaker> sounds like ideas for "buzzword economy" :P
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11:13:33 <andythenorth> “Urban Buzzwords”
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12:33:22 <Samu> I solved the stationspread check issue, turns out I was calculating a rectangle wrong, resulting in an humongous amount of tiles to be examined
12:34:07 <Samu> let's hope it's faster now, retesting
12:34:54 <Samu> an humongous or a humongous
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12:47:48 <Samu> wanna see the critical years when towns are already large, and larger and more airport types become available
12:48:13 <Samu> I expect some slowdowns, but hope not by much
12:55:32 <Alberth> down under you'd have slowups
13:17:52 <Samu> 1000 aircraft in 30 years, i didn't expect it to be this good lol
13:21:01 <Samu> it is being a bit helicopter happy to my liking
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13:42:40 <Alberth> heli things fit too easy :)
13:49:37 <Samu> i found a weird bug with listing stations
13:50:23 <Samu> i had the list of stations opened for LuDiAIAfterFix and LuDiAI
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13:50:39 <Samu> then i clicked to filter airports in one of them
13:52:10 <Samu> and then i clicked to filter airport stations on LuDiAI, then clicked to filter bus stations on the other
13:52:17 <Samu> and the listing starts acting up
13:53:00 <Samu> it is listing bus stations for the first one even with the airport station pressed down
14:04:10 <Samu> okay, there is yet some problem to fix :(
14:07:03 <Samu> if im looking for a place in a specific town and another town is nearby, it sometimes places the airport belonging to the other town :(
14:29:51 <Alberth> why? the other town may not have an airport?
14:35:33 <Samu> because I am checking each town individualy
14:35:51 <Samu> if adds the other town to the towns_used list
14:35:51 <Wolf01> Station list shared between windows?
14:36:36 <Samu> it doesn't add the town where it started to check
14:36:59 <Samu> wait a minute, this seems correct
14:37:59 <Alberth> seems highly unlikely that station lists are shared, someone would have noticed it
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15:38:36 <Samu> tileList.Valuate(AITile.GetClosestTown); tileList.KeepValue(town);
15:38:41 <Samu> is this gonna solve my problem?
15:43:16 <Alberth> likely all tiles have a closest town
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15:43:46 <Alberth> oh, it's a filter. never mind
15:44:36 <Alberth> likely there is a single tile that decides the town of an airport
15:56:21 <planetmaker> I think "upper left" of the bounding square might be that square
15:59:09 <Samu> not sure if I use AIAirport.GetNearestTown or that one
15:59:30 <planetmaker> ideally it shouldn't matter
15:59:36 <planetmaker> as it would be identical results
16:00:07 <planetmaker> the bounding rectangle is too simple for cases where the airport is joined to an existing station
16:00:31 <planetmaker> as the town-affiliation doesn't change for a station once the 1st tile is built
16:01:00 <planetmaker> so use the API call. Should be both, correct, easier and safer
16:11:12 <Alberth> he wants to know before you build the airport :)
16:15:20 <Alberth> oh, looks like that call would work
16:16:42 <Samu> i'm looking at station_cmd.cpp, CommandCost CmdBuildAirport(TileIndex tile, DoCommandFlag flags, uint32 p1, uint32 p2, const char *text)
16:17:27 <Samu> and it's hmm getting towns in 2 different manners
16:17:41 <Samu> depending of town noise being enabled or not
16:18:43 <Samu> Town *nearest = AirportGetNearestTown(as, iter);
16:18:50 <Samu> versus Town *t = ClosestTownFromTile(tile, UINT_MAX);
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16:35:00 <Samu> (*st)->town = ClosestTownFromTile(area.tile, UINT_MAX);
16:35:26 <Samu> AITile.GetClosestTown it is
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16:38:17 <Wolf01> So, NNRT With diagonal roads?
16:38:37 <planetmaker> RNRT. Really new...
16:39:04 <Eddi|zuHause> (where SM stands fro State Machine)
16:39:44 <Samu> testing...if I find a town with multiple airports, I failed
16:39:47 <Wolf01> I really would like to try making 2 track roads in the same tile, I think I would need another mx[] just to put everything in
16:39:57 <Samu> if everytown has exactly 1 airport, I succeeded
16:40:33 <Wolf01> And yes, I would need a whole lot of brand new state machine stuff
16:41:30 <Wolf01> But... better road junctions, a lot of interesting layouts with tram+road, maybe even up to 4 roadtypes on a single tile
16:42:29 <planetmaker> and a rail crossing!
16:43:04 <Wolf01> And rail in the middle of the road, with both working
16:43:38 <Wolf01> Serious shit, won't do :P
16:43:48 <planetmaker> but we have already a solution: we introduce a new zoom factor. And simply call 3x3 tiles a "new tile"
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16:46:11 <andythenorth_> if everytown has a mayor
16:46:44 <andythenorth_> nvm, paradoxes are boring :)
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16:52:05 <Samu> the things you make me do
16:52:08 <Samu> nearest_town = AITown.GetClosestTown(tile);
16:52:14 <Samu> local allowed_noise = AITown.GetAllowedNoise(AIAirport.GetNearestTown(nearest_town);
16:53:50 <Alberth> and a closing parenthesis
16:54:56 <Samu> and i need to supply a town, not a station i guess
16:55:26 <Samu> meh this is confusing me already lol
16:56:16 <Samu> local allowed_noise = AITown.GetAllowedNoise(AIAirport.GetNearestTown(nearest_town, a);
16:56:27 <Samu> local allowed_noise = AITown.GetAllowedNoise(AIAirport.GetNearestTown(tile, a));
16:56:35 <Samu> crap lol i'm a terrible copy paster
16:56:54 <Alberth> don't paste, type it again :)
16:57:01 <Samu> local allowed_noise = AITown.GetAllowedNoise(AIAirport.GetNearestTown(nearest_town, a));
16:57:38 <Samu> it's a tile isn't it? omg damn so confused
16:58:06 <Samu> local allowed_noise = AITown.GetAllowedNoise(AIAirport.GetNearestTown(tile, a));
16:58:06 <Alberth> I have no idea, documentation knows, so I don't have to
16:58:36 <Samu> static TownID GetNearestTown (TileIndex tile, AirportType type)
16:59:22 <Alberth> parameter description may add more restrictions, although likely here it will just work
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17:01:55 <Samu> the other one was also wrong
17:01:59 <Samu> it's nearest_town = AITile.GetClosestTown(tile);
17:02:11 <andythenorth> Wolf01: first two rail tracks on same tile
17:03:41 <andythenorth> it’s probably time for two tracks per tile
17:04:01 <andythenorth> and the move-while-liading thing from JGR
17:04:53 <andythenorth> and trains-can-proceed-on-sight option for PBS
17:05:11 <andythenorth> state machine tiles also
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17:23:27 <Samu> I finally understand asserts
17:23:30 <Samu> assert(!towns_used.HasItem(nearest_town); this.towns_used.AddItem(nearest_town, good_tile);
17:24:46 <Samu> assert(!towns_used.HasItem(nearest_town));
17:28:13 <planetmaker> the purpose of an assert is like "please crash now. something is not like it should be and worse might happen, if we continue"
17:31:43 <Samu> assert(!towns_used.HasItem(nearest_town) && town == nearest_town);
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17:58:24 <Eddi|zuHause> at least the workaround there seems to work so far
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18:09:25 <Samu> Alberth: how do I get the cost of a refit for an aircraft I don't yet own?
18:10:06 <Samu> I need to know the cost of an aircraft + the cost of it refiedt to mail before buying it
18:11:14 <Alberth> why not buy it if it is cheap enough, and then query refit. If it is also cheap enough, refit, else sell the aircraft
18:11:57 <Samu> aircraft refit price isn't that cheap
18:12:07 <Samu> at least for the original aircraft
18:12:11 <Alberth> I am not sure it is possible to query refit before owning it
18:12:36 <Alberth> if you cannot afford to buy it, knowing refit cost is no good either :)
18:13:18 <Samu> buy it, try to refit, fail, sell, destroy airports... rip money :(
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18:14:52 <planetmaker> yeah... initially aircraft can be quite expensive :)
18:15:50 <Alberth> I don't even see a function for refit cost if you own the aircraft
18:16:10 <Samu> there is a AITestMode thing
18:16:29 <Samu> and AIAccounting gives me the price
18:16:48 <Samu> i have to actually have the aircraft :(
18:18:24 <Samu> gonna test my ai in a 4k map, i expect bad profits for very very long distances
18:18:41 <Samu> eh, not really mine, but
18:18:48 <Alberth> you can buy it in an existing airport once for testing
18:20:45 <Samu> if i can actually refit the first aircraft, of course
18:22:00 <Samu> wondering if the refit cost is equal to all aircraft
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18:28:14 <Alberth> keep a table for all models, using the largest one you found so far if you don't know
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18:40:38 <Samu> this is what it looks like at the moment
18:44:07 <Samu> oh, you might want to take a look at TownAirportRadRect(a, town);
18:44:39 <Samu> and the checkadjacent stuff
18:47:45 <Samu> the estimateTownRectangle function was from LuDiAI code
18:53:30 <planetmaker> https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/6885 <-- your comment there seems to indicate that you're not happy with that PR, frosch123? I believe it's two separate issues: a) size of persistent storage. b) how to indicate version for NewGRFs
18:53:41 <planetmaker> The latter is out-of-scope for that PR, I think
18:54:21 <planetmaker> and honestly I'd solve the issue of version reported to NewGRFs identical to savegame version. Just another constant incremented when needed
18:54:52 <frosch123> i think the stable version is sufficient
18:55:13 <planetmaker> if we change nothing, that's what we already have, yes
18:55:14 <frosch123> there is also just one define each to check for c++11/14/17
18:55:32 <frosch123> noone would start testing development versions of compilers
18:56:08 <planetmaker> ok, what does your comment aim at? the _ttdpatch constant?
18:56:45 <frosch123> yes, the pr adds a method for newgrf to test for a specific feature
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18:57:06 <planetmaker> hm, ok, fair enough. Not really needed
18:57:16 <planetmaker> and actually bloat in that way of argument
18:57:32 <frosch123> i think noone would ever check that flag in 10 months
18:57:53 <frosch123> if people need it now, they should just check for 1.9
18:57:57 <planetmaker> andy would maybe :P
18:58:09 <planetmaker> but then... he would just assume the feature is there :D
19:00:01 <Samu> hmm the original WrigthAI.nut of LuDiAI was 445 lines, my version contains 761
19:00:09 <Samu> I think I overcomplicate too much
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19:00:34 <Samu> it was supposed to be a fixed LuDiAI, and now it's becoming something extra :(
19:00:49 <planetmaker> Samu, : :) instead of :( !
19:01:27 <planetmaker> sometimes the seemingly easy improvement needs more work than it made you believe :)
19:01:46 <planetmaker> especially when it comes to teaching computers some kind of "intelligence"
19:02:02 <frosch123> planetmaker: anyway, it is no big deal. there is tons of old cruft in newgrf, adding a bit does not make it worse
19:02:17 <planetmaker> it's adding a new byte ;)
19:02:28 <frosch123> i was mostly surprised that ottd had twice as many ttdpflags as ttdp
19:02:49 <frosch123> which i think was someone miscounting :p
19:05:10 <frosch123> wait for tomrrow please
19:05:54 <frosch123> on friday we have some chitchat meeting at work, and tomorrow i talk about the gh workflow
19:05:58 <frosch123> and i use that one as example :p
19:06:29 <planetmaker> that is a fair and good reason coming as surprise :)
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19:12:18 <frosch123> i need a trivial issue, to point out that prs are done for everything
19:12:32 <frosch123> but i did not want to look up a ln issue
19:18:13 <Eddi|zuHause> did we fix earrings yet?
19:32:07 <planetmaker> hm, do those folks know that *you* made that PR? :D
19:33:28 <peter1138> Also shows that for trivial issues, PRs mean it takes ages to get resolved ;p
19:34:17 <frosch123> since i also show the origin branch
19:35:14 <frosch123> peter1138: a sister subsidiary wants to start using bitbucket, and they want to do PR review by sitting next to each other
19:35:36 <planetmaker> sounds... unnecessarily complicated
19:35:50 <frosch123> i am not sure whether those who came up with that ever used it
19:37:02 <Alberth> that's how yo do or discuss a review on paper, right? :)
19:37:15 <Alberth> what else would change :p
19:37:29 <frosch123> maybe they even want to do it on paper
19:37:44 <frosch123> they are kind of scared that management reads reviews and judges people
19:37:57 <frosch123> they made rules who is allowe to read reviews
19:38:13 <planetmaker> fair enough. Bad management could us it against you
19:38:38 <frosch123> i have no idea how they really want to do stuff
19:38:48 <planetmaker> Yet if that is a concern, the online version won't be used like it should / could be used. The sissor is then already in the heads
19:38:54 <frosch123> but at least they use git, while in my place everything is svn :p
19:38:58 <Samu> as expected, in a 4k map, it is failing, it's creating too many routes with 4000+ tiles distance
19:39:12 <frosch123> planetmaker: i am very sure it is self-hosted
19:39:52 <Samu> looks like i need a mean to calculate a max distance per route? per airplane model?
19:39:53 <planetmaker> uh, yes. But that doesn't change it, does it?
19:40:12 <planetmaker> Samu, yes, there's a NewGRF property even which restricts maximum travel distance for airplanes
19:40:29 <planetmaker> not for default planes. But some from some pikka sets are restricted in distance
19:42:17 <Samu> forgot about that "detail"
19:44:42 <planetmaker> Samu, but probably you want a distance restriction anyway... or maybe rather travel *time* restriction. Too long is not profitable either
19:46:04 <Samu> estimating 136 aircraft for a route, lol
19:46:45 <Samu> ok, gonna have to think about the max distance
19:48:20 <Samu> will take a look at those that profit valiantly, and then calculate the distance
19:49:07 <Samu> then i use that distance as the max_distance
19:49:28 <Samu> it will have to "learn from mistakes" at first
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19:54:57 <Samu> @calc 933 + 3094 - 855 - 2372
19:55:20 <Samu> heh... 5423 in that screenshot lol
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20:13:27 <Samu> @calc 1524 + 1101 - 1238 - 454
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21:22:05 <Samu> ok, the learning of the max_air_distance is done. I thought this would be more complicated to code in
21:22:45 <Samu> restarting the 4k map, will see what it will come up with
21:23:51 <Samu> well, i put it starting at 10000
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22:01:45 <Eddi|zuHause> ah, the daily game of "where the hell did i put my mouse 10 minutes ago?"
22:03:02 <Eddi|zuHause> different kind of mouse :p
22:04:07 <Eddi|zuHause> for some completely unknown and mysterious reason, cats are totally uninterested in things that don't move on their own :p
22:04:36 <Alberth> tie a cord to it, so you can find it again
22:05:15 <Alberth> likely cats just consider it bad smelling
22:05:18 <Eddi|zuHause> how 20 years ago :p
22:06:03 <Eddi|zuHause> one could consider putting a phone core in, to make it ring when you lose it :p
22:06:37 <Alberth> nah, it should be sentient, and make itself available when you need it
22:06:58 <Eddi|zuHause> "alexa, spawn my mouse"
22:08:14 <andythenorth> is it bluetooth?
22:08:53 <Eddi|zuHause> it's certainly 2.4GHz, no idea if it's bluetooth
22:09:29 <Eddi|zuHause> it is not configurable
22:11:05 <Eddi|zuHause> i once wanted to warranty-replace the mouse, and they demanded also the dongle and the keyboard, because you can't change the code in the dongle to match the new mouse
22:11:19 <andythenorth> it meeds a tiny speaker in it
22:11:43 <Eddi|zuHause> or one of those force-feedback things that gamepads have
22:12:00 <andythenorth> then it could also simulate the tiny squeak that ball mice used to have
22:12:07 <andythenorth> when they were dirty
22:12:32 <andythenorth> my trackpad has a tiny speaker for the click sound :p
22:12:58 <Wolf01> Because my mice didn't squeak
22:13:23 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't remember ever consciously noticing a mouse squeaking
22:13:38 <andythenorth> maybe I imagined it
22:13:52 <andythenorth> it’s 25 years ago
22:23:04 <andythenorth> I need a name for an urban economy
22:23:12 <andythenorth> many town cargos
22:23:32 <andythenorth> which is balanced by a lot of farm / food production
22:23:48 <andythenorth> and building materials
22:33:24 <Eddi|zuHause> i would save that for one that needs massive amounts of workers each shift
22:36:38 <andythenorth> Modern Life is Rubbish
22:38:12 <Wolf01> And that reminds me I should unlock steam locos on train mechanic simulator
22:38:41 <Eddi|zuHause> what did you have before? muscle operated locos?
22:38:56 <Wolf01> No, starts with diesel :(
22:39:09 <Wolf01> Then lectric and at last steam
22:41:56 <andythenorth> A Town Like Alice
22:42:08 <Eddi|zuHause> no clue what that refers to
22:43:24 <andythenorth> it’s a book about an Australian Outback town that grows
22:43:35 <andythenorth> I recently read it :p
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22:45:55 <andythenorth> Gas, Food, Lodging
22:46:48 <Wolf01> Operation market garden... fruit, vegetables, tanks
22:48:39 <andythenorth> I wonder what climate it will be
22:48:47 <andythenorth> probably temperate
22:52:29 <Wolf01> Shit, half of the train damaged and they want it to be repaired for $1500
22:53:31 <Eddi|zuHause> are those italian prices? :p
22:54:18 <Eddi|zuHause> "I won this contract for 6 million, let's subcontract to someone that does it for 4 million, and keep 2 million profit without doing anything"
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22:54:54 <Eddi|zuHause> and that guy does "hey, i got this contract for 4 million, let's subcontract it for 3 million, and keep 1 million profit without doing anything"
22:56:06 <Eddi|zuHause> then the original person was expecting work done in the value of 6 million, but actual work was only done for 1.5 million, other money just disappeared in some pockets
22:56:12 <Wolf01> I can't even repair all the parts asdfasdfasg :D
23:00:34 <Samu> i have a problem with the max_distance, grrr
23:00:46 <Samu> i'm only picking the best 10 towns :(
23:01:12 <Samu> sometimes those 10 towns are not within min-max interval
23:01:32 <Samu> it ends up never building anything
23:03:09 <Wolf01> Yes, $600 for a 10 amp fuse is ridiculous, and this game doesn't even allow to have a stash of parts to repair and resell, or keep money between jobs :(
23:03:54 <Eddi|zuHause> a 10 amp fuse? what everyone has in their home?
23:04:18 <Wolf01> It's for automotive, but same
23:05:22 <Wolf01> Managed to destroy 2 of them trying to repair
23:05:31 <Wolf01> But the other ones are now like new
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23:06:42 <andythenorth> reviews of that game are...mixed :)
23:07:08 <Wolf01> No bonus, out of budget :(
23:24:14 <Samu> daym, 4k maps really expose the weaknesses of the ai
23:25:39 <Samu> the first 10 routes all have distances of about 4000+
23:47:11 <Wolf01> Ok, unlocked steam depot, not it can rest there for 2 or 3 months
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continue to next day ⏵