IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2018-08-21
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10:51:23 <Samu> is there a way to get the refit cost of a vehicle if I have the vehicle?
10:52:23 <Samu> more precisely, refit cost of an engine
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12:03:05 <Alberth> Samu: I don't know, is there a call to obtain refit cost at all?
12:05:13 <Alberth> ie usually you can play the 'reverse information' game here. you need information X, so find all calls that provide X. These calls need other information Y. If you have Y, you're done, else, find all calls that provide Y. These calls need other information Z. If you have Z, ...
12:47:31 <Alberth> openttdcoop is very persistent in keeping its users here :p
12:48:28 <DorpsGek> peter1138: yexo was last seen in #openttd 5 years, 37 weeks, 5 days, 21 hours, 31 minutes, and 57 seconds ago: <Yexo> <NGC3982> The station glitches are CHIPS related. I adressed it to Andy the other day, and it seems like it's b0rked in some way. <- it's still in the issue tracker for CHIPS, but I haven't had time to look at it yet
12:56:49 <planetmaker> very persistent, yes :P
12:57:19 <planetmaker> yexo vanished rather abruptly.
12:57:52 <planetmaker> I wonder whether I should weed-out the irc users :)
12:58:00 <Wolf01> How could we tell if that's just his ghost?
12:58:50 <planetmaker> I can tell by checking connections to the bouncer :P got a ghost-buster there :D
13:21:11 <LordAro> i've been through uni and a year of work since then
13:23:23 <Eddi|zuHause> feels like i haven't done anything since then
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16:08:28 <Samu> the more I look, the more I want to edit
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16:09:33 <Samu> i made the airport component to build from intercontinental to heliport
16:09:54 <Samu> it can become too slow in the later years
16:10:26 <Samu> when more airport types are available, because it checks if it can build one from all available
16:11:11 <Alberth> hopefully excluding the airports that are not compatible with the aircraft that you have?
16:11:58 <Samu> it can pair an intercontinental with a heliport
16:12:25 <Samu> yes, it builds the correct aircraft
16:12:33 <Samu> in this example, it would get helicopters
16:13:32 <Samu> there is a weird issue with HeliStation
16:13:41 <Samu> the top tile is an Hangar
16:14:08 <Samu> when i want to give orders to the aircraft to go to the station, it goes to hangar instead, i had to make a workaround
16:14:58 <Samu> local order_1 = AIAirport.IsHangarTile(tile_1) ? AIMap.GetTileIndex(AIMap.GetTileX(tile_1), AIMap.GetTileY(tile_1) + 1) : tile_1;
16:14:59 <Alberth> hmm, pseudo-smart software eh
16:16:05 <Alberth> sort-of, (x, y+1) might not exist
16:16:27 <Alberth> not in the default airports, but in the general case
16:16:30 <Samu> with the current airports available, it exists
16:16:36 <Samu> yeah, i see what you mean
16:16:50 <nielsm> what if it's a 1x1 heliport
16:17:11 <nielsm> oh didn't read the full convo
16:17:29 <Alberth> or you can, but without roof, fly-in depot :p
16:23:12 <Samu> I reworked the entire radius to search for a suitable tile to place an airport around a town
16:23:35 <Samu> i reused LuDiAI's estimateRectangle thing
16:23:56 <Samu> and then added my own coding to suit it for the various airport sizes
16:24:17 <Samu> wrightai was a permanent 30 radius
16:24:42 <Samu> now it's kinda dependant on town size+airport size+ catchment
16:24:56 <Samu> im kinda proud of it, it works well
16:26:34 <Alberth> sounds like a major improvement indeed
16:30:05 <Samu> for the road vehicle part, I'm not too happy
16:30:09 <Samu> my changes didn't help much
16:30:43 <Samu> i even prevented station spreading, making it perform worse
16:31:23 <Samu> kinda expected, but, even with it allowed, it ain't better nor worse the way it was in the original
16:31:43 <Alberth> it happens, it is always complicated to foresee what the effect is precisely
16:33:01 <Alberth> it's mostly a sign you don't quite understand the real core of the problem yet
16:33:10 <planetmaker> hm, umpdated AIs? :)
16:33:16 <Alberth> more work needs to be done
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16:51:48 <Samu> is it "a hangar" or "an hangar"?
16:52:30 <Wolf01> N in front of vocals, H is not
16:56:37 <sparch_> some vocals have r sound like: a university
16:56:58 <sparch_> you right a university and not an university
17:00:27 <andythenorth> direct reduced iron?
17:00:48 <andythenorth> coke oven offgas?
17:01:14 * andythenorth rekking Steeltown
17:03:10 <Alberth> you already have a tyre plant :p
17:04:56 <Alberth> copper looks weird in there
17:06:31 <Alberth> oh, already gone, nvm
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17:14:00 <andythenorth> I simplified vehicle chain inputs last year
17:14:06 <andythenorth> can’t remember why
17:14:33 <andythenorth> but ‘vehicle parts’ is limiting for cargo sprites
17:15:25 <Alberth> copper looks weird too
17:16:10 <Alberth> I wonder if you a copper chain would work, likely with an opt-out, so you don't need to build two full industry chains
17:16:44 <Alberth> *adding a copper chain
17:23:20 <Eddi|zuHause> <sparch_> you right a university and not an university <-- that's because english writing is not phonetic. "university" is WRITTEN with a vowel at the start, but it actually does not start with a vowel SOUND
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17:26:11 <Eddi|zuHause> the reverse is also true, like french words which start with a written (but silent) h will shorten their article as if the word starts with a vowel, like "l'hôpital"
17:28:08 <Eddi|zuHause> dinosaur factory
17:30:42 <andythenorth> supply dinosaurs
17:31:10 <andythenorth> processing time 25m years
17:31:21 <andythenorth> daylength patch? o_O
17:33:05 <Alberth> make an aircraft rather than a car :p
17:33:41 <andythenorth> aircraft parts are visually interesting cargo
17:33:58 <Alberth> and a PITA to draw :p
17:34:49 <Eddi|zuHause> need a beluga plane to carry aircraft parts
17:35:58 <andythenorth> how did Pinterest scam google images so well
17:36:48 <andythenorth> all the search results are pinterest, but behind a scamwall
17:43:11 <sparch_> Eddi|zuHause, awesome thank you
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17:47:03 <peter1138> andythenorth, yeah, it's sad eh?
17:48:08 <Wolf01> I put -pinterest in searches
17:48:31 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't even know what a pinterest is. i don't think i actually ever encountered it
17:49:06 <Alberth> Eddi: nah, aircraft is too big if you need a beluga
17:49:28 <LordAro> maybe it needs a belugas instead
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17:51:49 <andythenorth> oof phone irc I give up :p
17:51:59 <andythenorth> it’s remarkably bad
17:53:20 <andythenorth> did anyone finish NRT yet? :p
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17:59:41 <andythenorth> rekking steeltown is really hard :(
18:00:06 <andythenorth> it’s very lacking in weak spots to poke at
18:00:39 <andythenorth> flawed things are easier to mess with :|
18:06:56 <andythenorth> i am concluding same thing
18:07:22 <andythenorth> steeltown is my favourite economy so far eh
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18:18:13 <Samu> if I limit the game to 50 airplanes, a crashed aircraft prevents me from buying another
18:18:48 <Samu> i feel like not dealing with it at all
18:20:45 <Alberth> crashed airplane disappears by itself, doesn't it?
18:21:13 <Samu> but i am catching the event while the aircraft is in crashed state
18:21:23 <Samu> i can't create the replacement :(
18:21:55 <Alberth> why not count non-crashed aircraft regularly, once a crash happened?
18:22:21 <acklen> or queue the replacement task until the plane is cleared
18:22:22 <Alberth> or maybe simply always do that
18:23:37 <Alberth> or store the crashed plane, like acklen says, and then regularly try to build a new aircraft until it works
18:23:51 <Alberth> or until after some X months
18:24:49 <Alberth> if you automatically adjust number of planes on a route, it will happen automagically without you doing anything special, I would think
18:25:38 <Samu> it kinda does that already, but it prioritizes stations with the largest amount of cargo waiting
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18:25:46 <Samu> might not be a direct replacement
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18:30:52 <Alberth> doesn't sound like a bad solution given the small amount of work you have to do :)
18:47:35 <Samu> dayum, starting a game in 2040, it takes toooo long to find a suitable location for an airport :(
18:48:04 <Samu> how would I improve this
18:48:22 <Samu> maybe I could look at town noise
18:50:03 <Samu> too slow for my liking, it's been 10 years and still no airport
18:51:21 <Alberth> start with bigger towns
18:52:04 <Alberth> or towns that are quite flat
18:52:48 <Alberth> or find open space first perhaps?
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18:56:05 <Samu> i think the order I'm checking this matter
18:57:21 <Samu> i'm testing if i can build an intercontinental airport first, it tests in all towns from a to z if it can be placed. if it can't, then it next tests intercontinental, starting again from a to z
18:57:31 <Samu> i think the order has to be improved
18:57:56 <Samu> it keeps testing for every airport tile, repeating a to z
18:59:01 <Samu> i think i want to get the town a first, then test the 9 different airport types in it
19:00:07 <Samu> it went from testing 1 type of airport into 9
19:00:14 <Samu> that's what's increasing the time
19:01:25 <Samu> maybe i'll keep the best 10 towns
19:01:37 <Samu> then it doesn't really have to search them all
19:01:49 <Samu> yeah, less towns to search
19:02:42 <Samu> but i still wanted to let it try the lesser towns
19:07:37 <Alberth> try the smaller airport first, if that doesn't fit, no need to test anything after that
19:10:09 <Alberth> seems to work doesn't it ?
19:10:29 <Samu> heh, that would be mass heliports
19:10:55 * happpy slaps Borg around a bit with a large fishbot
19:10:59 <Alberth> why? just because the heliport fits doesn't mean you can't try other airports too
19:11:38 <Samu> the current way I've coded this, if it starts with heliports, the chances of it being built is likely 100%
19:11:43 <happpy> Sorry rone butern borg
19:12:37 <Samu> i start with the biggest noisy airport and go all the way down to the lowest noisy airport
19:13:04 <Samu> so maybe i should filter out towns that don't match the noise of the airport type i'm currently testing
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19:13:41 <Alberth> you can do both, I think
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19:15:34 <Samu> it starts with BuildAirportRoute
19:15:43 <Samu> that code is executed first
19:19:40 <Alberth> I'd suggest to first try to find the set of airports that can be build, and as a second step which one to actually build
19:20:23 <Alberth> the the former can be done faster if you take noise and airport size into account
19:29:17 <Samu> that stationadjacent code is complicating things
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19:47:01 <Samu> the adjacent code is forcing me to test twice
19:47:19 <Samu> if (!AIAirport.BuildAirport(tile, airport_type, adjacentStationId) && !AIAirport.BuildAirport(tile, airport_type, AIStation.STATION_NEW)) continue;
19:47:42 <Samu> i guess i can improve a bit
19:48:30 <Alberth> quite, you can add flags whether to test each case
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19:53:52 <Samu> if (adjacentStationId != AIStation.STATION_NEW && !AIAirport.BuildAirport(tile, airport_type, adjacentStationId) || !AIAirport.BuildAirport(tile, airport_type, AIStation.STATION_NEW)) continue;
19:58:38 <Samu> im trying in a game if i can distant join an airport to a bus station inside the town
19:59:39 <Samu> it seems noise concerns aren't the issue
19:59:51 <Samu> i can happily test it once
20:00:38 <Samu> if (!AIAirport.BuildAirport(tile, airport_type, AIStation.STATION_NEW)) continue;
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20:00:52 <Samu> i was worried i couldn't, lol
20:01:19 * andythenorth wonders if there’s a ranked list of cargo transported worldwide
20:01:30 <andythenorth> by volume/weight
20:02:01 <andythenorth> v4 Extreme is not convincing me, it lacks any concept
20:02:33 <Alberth> haha, it must have a justifaction :p
20:02:50 <andythenorth> it needs at least an idea
20:03:01 <Alberth> "I just threw industries on a big heap and this is what came out" :p
20:03:33 <andythenorth> Steeltown is ‘semi-realistic steel industry’ plus ‘many connected industries in small space on map’
20:04:01 <andythenorth> and also ‘cargo input gets horribly reduced in the secondaries’
20:04:15 <andythenorth> so it’s got a theme
20:05:18 <andythenorth> but the graph is such that all the random by products actually feed the main chain, indirectly
20:05:35 <andythenorth> extreme is blah blah
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20:07:36 <andythenorth> so far the concept is
20:08:03 <andythenorth> ‘somewhat Germany and Poland’
20:08:10 <Alberth> I think you're more concerned about it than the players :)
20:08:25 <andythenorth> plus ‘ag chain and industry chain are mostly separate’
20:08:38 <andythenorth> plus ‘most cargos have 2 consumers’
20:08:56 <andythenorth> well, players don’t have to make it :D
20:09:12 <andythenorth> they don’t need a concept :d
20:09:49 <andythenorth> maybe a shower gives the answer, sometimes works :p
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20:28:20 <andythenorth> eh last year I had a prototype ‘Brineland’ economy with salt as major cargo
20:28:36 <andythenorth> which has kind of resurfaced in extreme
20:28:46 <andythenorth> extreme needs a new name :p
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20:33:28 <andythenorth> Wirtschaftswunder?
20:52:58 <Samu> there should be a CheckFlatnessOfARectangle
21:05:01 <Samu> IsBuildableRectangle is not enough
21:05:26 <Samu> doesn't do what I expected it to do
21:07:11 <Samu> looking at openttd code atm
21:07:49 <Samu> /* static */ bool ScriptTile::IsBuildableRectangle(TileIndex tile, uint width, uint height)
21:07:55 <Samu> this is disappointing :(
21:08:19 <Samu> it doesn't treat the rectangle as an area of tiles
21:08:34 <Samu> doesn't check for flatness allowance
21:28:03 <Alberth> you can code industries to build on non-flat areas, flatness requirement would lead to false negatives
21:28:52 <Alberth> also stations and airports can be build on non-flat areas, afaik
21:29:15 <Samu> there is a good function in openttd code itself
21:29:38 <Samu> but it was not ported to the script side
21:30:36 <Samu> CheckFlatArea in station_cmd.cpp if i recall, brb
21:32:15 <Samu> CommandCost cost = CheckFlatLand(airport_area, flags);
21:32:32 <Samu> CheckFlatLand, and it does it's magic
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22:18:20 <planetmaker> * andythenorth [18:01:19] wonders if there’s a ranked list of cargo transported worldwide <-- there is... maybe not world-wide, but the statistics are available at least for each (or most) countries
22:19:59 <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, trying to reply to andy is horrible :p
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