IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2018-07-24
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16:23:17 <planetmaker> reading as we speak :)
16:25:56 <planetmaker> Alberth, do I understand correctly, that it is a separate tool, separate from nmlc currently?
16:26:30 <planetmaker> It reads very nice what you write about the capabilities :)
16:27:02 <Alberth> yep, just plain python needed, give root file, get 900+kb output :p
16:27:34 <planetmaker> I'm not sure it covers *every* macro magic I ever used in every NewGRF I ever wrote... but I wouldn't want to use *every* macro magic anyway anyhow :P But it sure should cover those cases which I use basically everytime
16:27:50 <planetmaker> so I'm quite curious about it :)
16:28:10 <Alberth> it mostly throws dynamic features out
16:28:37 <Alberth> I guess I should move stuff to gh
16:29:21 <planetmaker> moving nmlc to GH is still on my agenda, too... I don't find it easy to convert though... GH actually failed when I gave it the URL. Dunno what andy did differently than me
16:32:55 <Alberth> pp/bin/pp -o outfile infile
16:34:18 <Alberth> it changes Makefile and findversion too
16:35:02 * planetmaker downloads and looks
16:35:20 <Alberth> pp does include a small git repo
16:35:56 <LordAro> needs more GH branch :p
16:36:37 <Alberth> git init; git br first_steps; git co first_steps
16:40:04 <Alberth> I tried converting the chips thing yesterday, it fails on a too old mercurial pacakge here
16:41:18 <Alberth> from mercruial.scmtools import revsymbol or so had no revsymbol
16:42:21 <Alberth> apparently they make a git clone by moving some mercurial data around at repo level rather than at commit level
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16:45:24 <nielsm> I'm looking at the ticket about a "build town houses" gui for the scenario editor
16:45:28 <nielsm> it's called "good first issue"
16:45:38 <nielsm> it's a seriously complex problem, as far as I can tell
16:45:44 <nielsm> lots of refactoring needed
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16:49:52 <planetmaker> ... wrong reports :P ...
16:51:33 <Alberth> git doesn't list it as untracked
16:51:43 <Alberth> maybe the import is missing?
16:51:57 <planetmaker> there... is a report.py for me
16:52:16 <Alberth> ok, git tells the truth :p
16:52:31 <Alberth> no from pp import report then?
16:53:20 <Alberth> nielsm: yeah, not all "good first issues" are that good first issues :p
16:56:54 <Alberth> ah, wrong import line :)
16:57:52 <Alberth> move the ", report" one line down :)
17:00:04 <planetmaker> ah, it should simply go in that line, yes. It's also - correctly - in the next
17:00:29 <planetmaker> and I was also looking at the wrong line :P
17:02:45 <planetmaker> Alberth, should it delete the output when it fails?
17:03:55 <Alberth> it's debatable, can make it an option :p
17:04:12 <Alberth> it's useful for eg make
17:05:24 <Alberth> output is partial anyway, as all data is streamed, so if the chain breaks somewhere, it's not well defined what gets written
17:05:51 <Alberth> python likely does close all files nicely
17:06:45 <planetmaker> seems like. It closed the output at the point it encountered the error
17:08:31 <Alberth> hmm, maybe it does, the writer basically pulls new tokens, trigger the chain into further computations
17:09:14 <Alberth> line numbers are weird currently, they are sorted
17:09:45 <Alberth> especially if it points to the definition and the call
17:10:18 <planetmaker> The tests are only optimized for the tests via Makefile, yes? bin/pp -o test tests/tokenize_test.txt
17:10:18 <planetmaker> pp ERROR at line in "tests/tokenize_test.txt", at line 3, column 4: Found 'endmacro' keyword without matching 'define'
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17:10:57 <Alberth> tokenize is just the first step, ie add -t
17:11:16 <Alberth> it doesn't do anything semantic then
17:16:24 <Alberth> without -o it dumps to stdout
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18:56:37 <LordAro> it compiles, it works
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19:00:21 <nielsm> NewHouses drawing looks like it's going to its own whole bag of fun
19:00:35 <nielsm> since it seems to really want to know what tile it lives on
19:01:06 <planetmaker> yes, yes, houses want to know that
19:10:35 <nielsm> of course also needs to handle multi tile buildings
19:18:05 <nielsm> arctic landscape might also be annoying since it really ought to select between two buildings depending on whether you build above or below snow line
19:21:45 <planetmaker> Alberth, the generated nml definitely looks more readable, especially when macros came into play which expand into HUGE lines
19:22:01 <planetmaker> as your version supports nice multi-line macros :)
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19:26:34 <andythenorth> I added 'Industrial Finishes'
19:26:40 <Alberth> not by accident, planetmaker :)
19:27:33 <andythenorth> I need to unpick final goods cargos some more
19:27:49 <andythenorth> and decide about building materials (split, yes, no, partially?)
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19:30:59 <andythenorth> printing works should produce mail? o_O
19:31:04 <andythenorth> or I add newspapers cargo?
19:32:08 <planetmaker> printing works should produce Printen ;)
19:35:47 <Alberth> nah, it's a 3d printer, should produce VR news
19:48:57 <andythenorth> should I drop coffee cargo?
19:49:02 <andythenorth> kind of like it though :P
19:49:20 <Wolf01> No, you should add coffee, tea and biscuits
19:50:46 <andythenorth> probably should test this soon
19:51:17 <Eddi|zuHause> it's going to be horrible :p
19:53:26 <planetmaker> I like coffee, too.
19:53:31 <planetmaker> And it's too nerdy to drop it ;)
19:53:41 <planetmaker> Except maybe I like tea more :D
19:53:44 <andythenorth> that's what I thought oo
19:54:09 <nielsm> tea is good, coffee makes me choke
19:54:20 <andythenorth> the number of industries in Extreme
19:54:26 <andythenorth> is a real challenge for map gen
19:54:53 <andythenorth> on 256x512 I have 1-2 of most types
19:55:06 <andythenorth> there are 59 industry types
19:55:11 <Wolf01> <nielsm> tea is good, coffee makes me choke <- me too, if I add sugar
19:55:33 <planetmaker> no sugar, no cream. Black as the night
19:55:39 <andythenorth> the number of industries to build are just constants, scaled by map size?
19:55:48 <andythenorth> Alberth: you worked on this some time ago? ^
19:55:58 <planetmaker> andythenorth, that *should* be the case, yes
19:57:06 <andythenorth> wondering if we could tune it
19:57:17 <andythenorth> so that there are two counts, one specific to town-industries
19:57:31 <planetmaker> I can imagine three types basically:
19:57:38 <planetmaker> * quantity per town
19:57:42 <andythenorth> blackhole town industries are wanted disproportionately more
19:57:43 <planetmaker> * quantity per map
19:57:53 <planetmaker> * quantity per size
19:58:18 <andythenorth> if Truebrain was here, I would get slapped for specifying possible solution, not problem :D
19:58:26 <andythenorth> but TrueBrain isn't so I'm safe
19:58:40 <planetmaker> though you could combine map and size to "per size with min=1"
19:58:46 <Alberth> that's total number of industries iirc
19:59:20 <Alberth> so some "chance" thing decides the proportion of each industry
19:59:30 <andythenorth> the problem is that I'm weighting the probability of town-industries relatively high
19:59:35 <andythenorth> because lots are wanted
19:59:39 <Alberth> industry had that variable
19:59:52 <andythenorth> and then very small numbers of other types are built per map
20:00:18 <Alberth> so you set industries to "dense" or "high" or whatever it's called :p
20:00:35 <andythenorth> it's better on 'high'
20:02:21 <Eddi|zuHause> so "number of industries per map size" must also be scaled by number of industries defined?
20:03:15 <Eddi|zuHause> or maybe industry set can set a "global" property that is incorporated into the low/medium/high settings?
20:05:54 <Alberth> number of industries could be useful
20:07:09 <Alberth> just let newgrf define those numbers instead?
20:08:03 <Eddi|zuHause> not the exact numbers, but an additional scaling factor
20:10:12 <Alberth> for my curiosity, what do you gain by a scaling factor?
20:10:36 <Alberth> as opposed just the number itself?
20:14:16 <andythenorth> it's a multiplier on the ottd setting?
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20:18:03 <andythenorth> does the newgrf need to control it?
20:18:06 <andythenorth> we have the constants
20:18:26 <andythenorth> we have the average number of industries per climate in original base set
20:18:48 <andythenorth> just rescale to number of industries in newgrf?
20:22:24 <Alberth> you know the total number of industries available at one time
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20:36:00 <frosch123> didn't adf have a build-any-house-in-se patch?
20:40:34 <Wolf01> Oh, I found out that libreoffice was put on the microsoft store by someone, selling it for 2 bucks but the demo version is fully usable... maybe is the same one who tried this with OTTD
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21:39:50 <andythenorth> so what cargo unit for newspapers?
21:50:09 <LordAro> i see no issues with this
21:51:12 <andythenorth> and what accepts newspaper?
21:51:18 <andythenorth> I need more town industries anyway
21:51:30 <andythenorth> need more types of shops I think
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22:03:42 <andythenorth> sprite x-y is fun eh?
22:04:36 <andythenorth> so where does yeast come from?
22:04:51 <andythenorth> salt is there, and I'm assuming spices are imported
22:05:12 <nielsm> I think large scale brewery ops make their own
22:05:19 <nielsm> including baking yeast while they're at it
22:06:00 <andythenorth> I would like to ruthlessly remove any redundant cargos
22:12:34 <Wolf01> Where are slag and cement?
22:12:46 <andythenorth> these are good questions
22:12:52 <andythenorth> also tar/bitumen
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22:13:17 <andythenorth> domestic appliances
22:13:30 <andythenorth> that would be 55 cargos
22:14:15 <andythenorth> why does the bakery accept sugar and flour, but not fats / dairy?
22:14:27 <andythenorth> cakes without butter are lame
22:15:04 <andythenorth> also glass is missing
22:15:10 <andythenorth> and the recycling chain is stupid
22:15:30 <andythenorth> I think the heavy industry is quite good though
22:19:42 <frosch123> or are you doing something different?
22:20:43 <Eddi|zuHause> "the spider and the fountain" sounds like a crime or secret agent novel
22:23:12 <andythenorth> copper + polymers -> wire?
22:23:44 <nielsm> copper + cloth -> trendy wire
22:24:23 <andythenorth> textiles exists :P
22:28:36 <Wolf01> andythenorth: ask for 64k cargos and start from chemical elements
22:28:38 <Eddi|zuHause> i do belive nylon counts as a polymer
22:28:54 <andythenorth> also that cable is 10 foot
22:29:07 <andythenorth> it's lifechanging
22:29:21 <Eddi|zuHause> Wolf01: that fails by the time you arrive at enzymes
22:29:41 <LordAro> andythenorth: seems excessive
22:30:39 <Eddi|zuHause> @calc 10*12*2.54
22:31:02 <Eddi|zuHause> i thought usb cables go up to 5m
22:31:20 <andythenorth> I haven't seen a USB-C power delivery one that does that
22:31:23 <andythenorth> but now I have to look
22:32:12 <LordAro> wouldn't surprise me if it was 3m for power delivery 5m for data
22:32:31 <Eddi|zuHause> at work i had to order a special usb A extension cable with 7.5m
22:33:09 <Eddi|zuHause> actually, no, it was 15m
22:33:17 <andythenorth> anyway it makes a lot more practical difference than the accompanying CPU upgrade
22:33:18 <Eddi|zuHause> containing 2 repeaters
22:33:52 <Eddi|zuHause> and the possibility to chain 3 times, if you added more power sources
22:34:05 <andythenorth> was this some remote sensing?
22:34:08 <andythenorth> or a remote machine?
22:34:48 <Eddi|zuHause> it was for a chemical measurement device that had to be in a shielded place tho you could handle dangerous substances
22:37:57 <andythenorth> scrap the textile mill, and cotton?
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