IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2018-05-30
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06:00:12 <Eddi|zuHause> if i don't return, my system is now screwed up
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06:05:29 <Eddi|zuHause> i guess it may live one more day
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10:15:25 <andythenorth> it's Pikka and V453000 together
10:15:31 <andythenorth> if DanMacK turns up, world ends
10:16:04 <andythenorth> what shall I put in FIRS 9000 Super Extreme then
10:16:09 <andythenorth> got 64 cargos to use up
10:28:56 <peter1138> andythenorth, 128 cargos
10:29:29 <peter1138> There's a callback result that houses use that limits the house set to using 32 cargo types.
10:29:33 <peter1138> I think that's not a problem.
10:29:54 <peter1138> They only want passengers and mail anyway, normally.
10:30:25 <andythenorth> peter1138: 256 cargos, and 16 in/out per industry
10:30:37 <Pikka> more in/out would be nice
10:30:56 <andythenorth> "nooooooooooooooooo"
10:31:01 * andythenorth likes the limits
10:31:06 <andythenorth> also station probblem
10:31:36 <peter1138> Add cargotype to platforms.
10:31:45 <Pikka> what kind of station just piles cargo up on the platforms anyway? :P
10:33:23 <peter1138> Ok, so port rather than station, but still.
10:33:28 <peter1138> Also just containers
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12:29:08 <Eddi|zuHause> something like: decide the cargo during the tileloop, instead of during callback resolution?
12:29:36 <Eddi|zuHause> (so, store it in the tile)
12:31:45 <Eddi|zuHause> could then add some fancy logic to distribute the cargos over the tiles, instead of picking the largest pile for all tiles
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12:46:22 <andythenorth> all these station cargo sprites
12:46:32 <andythenorth> that you only see if you're playing the game wrong :P
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12:47:16 <Eddi|zuHause> well, ok, but the suggested solution there is to use monthly throughput instead of currently waiting cargo
12:47:47 <peter1138> Hmm, town-name newgrfs are a bit clunky.
12:48:34 <peter1138> Add the newgrf, then go into game settings, what?
12:48:53 <andythenorth> peter1138: ikr :P
12:49:13 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: what about using station rating for cargo? o_O
12:49:36 <andythenorth> it's already available, and is conveniently a %, not an absolute value
12:50:14 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: doesn't sound right to me...
12:50:43 <andythenorth> ok try the problem from another angle
12:50:52 <andythenorth> current spec uses 'little' and 'lots' thresholds
12:51:08 <andythenorth> but they're absolute values, so what values to set for those? o_O
12:51:48 <andythenorth> they vary so much by industry newgrf, industry random production at start, by play style, etc
12:52:51 <andythenorth> ideally we find a metric that isn't absolute, but is some ratio
12:54:40 <andythenorth> 'monthly throughput' has same problem
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13:08:09 <Eddi|zuHause> vague algorithm sketch: 1) during industry production, increase a cargo counter on the station, 2) during tileloop, deduct the "low" limit from the station's memory, and add it onto the tile memory, 3) the tile memory fades after [high/low] tileloop cycles
13:09:27 <Eddi|zuHause> so, if the tileloop continuously transfers the full "low" amount to the tile, it will show the "high" sprite
13:09:51 <Eddi|zuHause> industry production happens vaguely at the same rate as the tileloop
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13:11:16 <Eddi|zuHause> if the tile memory ever falls below the "low" threshhold, it may switch cargos
13:13:14 <Eddi|zuHause> high/low ~ 8 would equate to about one month
13:14:23 <peter1138> how much storage space are you thinking per tile?
13:15:31 <Eddi|zuHause> not entirely sure, but a cargo index, and some amount, simulate the fading by some fancy maths instead of a shifting storage
13:15:44 <__ln__> let's say 1 gigabyte to be safe
13:16:27 <peter1138> Cargo type is currently 5 bits as is, maybe more soon.
13:17:09 <Eddi|zuHause> so 8 bit cargo, ? bit counter
13:20:23 <peter1138> So rail stations currently have 5 bits free.
13:20:29 <andythenorth> well we increased map array right? o_O
13:21:00 <peter1138> andythenorth, yeah but you can't keep reusing the bits you added :p
13:21:02 <Eddi|zuHause> there's, however, another piece missing: the station tiles don't necessarily react to the full set of cargos. so you could end up with the goods platform storing coal (displays nothing), the coal platform storing oil (displays nothing) and the oil platform storing passenges (displays nothing)
13:21:49 <peter1138> You actually can do it per station part.
13:23:05 <andythenorth> oh yeah station needs the railtype
13:23:06 <peter1138> There's an off-map storage for station parts (used to identify which newgrf station was built) which could include a CargoType and amount.
13:23:10 <andythenorth> it's not free bits :P
13:23:12 <andythenorth> silly andythenorth
13:23:51 <Eddi|zuHause> ok, i don't know enough of the details about station off-map storage
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13:37:53 * andythenorth is worrying about cargo label inflation
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14:14:21 * Pikka is worrying about locomotive names
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14:15:30 <Pikka> andythenorth, should I use nicknames for the mainline diesels? Is "type 1, type 2" too hard for the average player to differentiate? Or do the power classes help them understand which loco is "better"?
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14:24:11 <andythenorth> Pikka: I think it's all potato/potato
14:24:28 <andythenorth> nicknames take more work
14:24:37 <andythenorth> and I'm not sure they add any quality
14:24:49 <andythenorth> what are you doing for the steam engines?
14:25:00 <Pikka> perhaps. they just stand out a bit. but maybe that's a good thing.
14:25:17 <Pikka> mixture of nicknames, wheel-arrangement names and class numbers
14:27:17 <peter1138> The 8K better be high-res.
14:29:46 <andythenorth> "type 1" etc is a bit bland eh? o_O
14:34:16 <Pikka> also in the actual game they're "English Electric Type 1", "Sulzer Type 2" etc
14:41:19 * andythenorth should draw something
14:47:25 * andythenorth should approve peter1138's PR
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16:15:59 <andythenorth> Pikka: so I should add extra text in buy menu, right?
16:16:09 <andythenorth> to explain what an engine is for? o_O
16:19:55 <Alberth> engine pulls wagons, wagons go zoeffff
16:21:31 <Alberth> more likely, people want realistic stats, like length down to the last nano meter
16:24:03 <andythenorth> I will add super realistic details
16:24:09 <andythenorth> for my fictional trains :)
16:27:41 <Alberth> you can add a salesmans pitch :)
16:28:33 <Alberth> "great engine, moderately fast, but plenty of power for your coal lines"
16:28:52 <V453000> Pikka: I like the green lights showing which train is good at what :)
16:29:18 <Alberth> and no universal green I take it? :)
16:30:27 <Alberth> could be fun to add it, but make it so expensive to run, it's useless :p
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16:33:21 <andythenorth> eh if we all use the same lights
16:33:25 <andythenorth> we can make top trumps
16:33:31 <andythenorth> then we'll get sued :P
16:37:33 <Pikka> I don't know about buy menu text
16:37:54 <Alberth> you'll only get twitters from some president, I think
16:38:10 <Pikka> if people are confused by locos, can you unconfuse them in just a few words?
16:39:13 <andythenorth> "This engine likes the countryside"
16:39:18 <andythenorth> "Use this engine by the sea"
16:39:27 <andythenorth> "This engine likes red coaches"
16:40:16 <Alberth> "this engine loves hauling heavy loads"
16:41:21 <andythenorth> wow round() exists in python
16:42:03 <Alberth> that existed for a long time already, I think
16:42:43 <andythenorth> I worked in python2.4 for a long time
16:42:46 <andythenorth> still do in fact
16:42:59 <andythenorth> I am used to many things being missing
16:44:02 <Alberth> meh, 2.4 docs are not available any more
16:44:46 <andythenorth> something that needed careful work to port to 2.7, due to using a very large third party framework that was tied to 2.4
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17:04:53 <peter1138> Hmm, last 2.4 release was 10 years ago.
17:05:46 <peter1138> 3.0 was 10 years ago too, but nobody used it then :p
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17:10:17 <andythenorth> wonder why we didn't use it :P
17:10:45 <andythenorth> we used some weird % string formatter, then converted it back if needing a float
17:10:52 <andythenorth> probably just clueless
17:11:52 <Alberth> I don't see how you can have a float with n digits, unless you throw away bits
17:12:21 <LordAro> iirc python's round() tends to do unexpected things anyway
17:12:56 <andythenorth> Alberth: it's vague memories tbh :)
17:13:39 <Alberth> yep, the only sane form of n digits is to convert to string, and use that representation
17:13:55 <Alberth> or you do something like BCD
17:14:51 <Alberth> oh, restricted turing complete language eh? Python gave up on that idea :)
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17:20:15 <Alberth> it's a tempting idea :)
17:24:52 * andythenorth drawing american horse
17:25:04 <andythenorth> as brit horse is not even 50% complete
17:25:08 <andythenorth> best to start a new one
17:26:02 <Alberth> new eco-friendly pixels are always nicer :)
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17:35:13 <Alberth> hopefully just looking for new pixels...
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18:21:35 <_dp_> Alberth, what's the problem with having n digits in float? just don't expect it to be exactly the same
18:21:50 <_dp_> and there is always decimal for that kind of stuff
18:22:56 <Alberth> there is no such thing as n digits in a float, there are some X bits precision, and the last one decides the precision
18:23:38 <Alberth> and indeed, if you want n digits, either use integers and divide by 10**n afterwards, or use some package for it
18:25:11 <_dp_> Alberth, precision is decided by operations you do, if you want to work with n after the point digits just treat with 10**(-n-1) precision or smth like that
18:26:17 <Alberth> dropsgek is pretty smart with numbers :)
18:26:43 <_dp_> @calc 1. / 10 * 3 == 3. / 10
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18:31:42 <LordAro> wait, that's not it...
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18:33:56 <LordAro> nope, can't see where 0.3000... gets converted to 0.3
18:34:57 <andythenorth> hey look it's peter1138
18:36:42 <andythenorth> Pikka: so a GP35 is about same length as a 73 eh?
18:39:39 <andythenorth> it's just someone with a stack of branches
18:43:05 <andythenorth> probably not a good OTTD industry though :P
19:16:37 <andythenorth> Slate, Wool, Lamb, Coal, Lead
19:21:40 <Alberth> no no, 4/8 cabeese required to protect the lambs
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19:25:26 <andythenorth> I wondered about a French / Dutch / Belgian economy
19:25:42 <andythenorth> worried I might stumble into offensive stereotypes though :P
19:25:55 <andythenorth> French economy is based on Cheese no?
19:26:04 <andythenorth> Wolf01: Italy has an economy? :o
19:26:20 <Wolf01> Yes, it's based on delocalizing to other countries
19:27:12 <Wolf01> And yesterday we lost the company which invented the "panettone"
19:27:23 <Eddi|zuHause> well, one single giant boot?
19:28:51 <Wolf01> We are surviving on furniture production in these years :/
19:32:27 <Eddi|zuHause> the ikea of the south?
19:32:47 <Wolf01> Yep, but the quality is a bit different
19:35:22 <Alberth> more cabinets for storing lego!
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20:53:40 <andythenorth> that's a NARS caboose next to UK caboose
21:08:45 <supermop_work> cupola is to look out over the top of the train
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21:10:00 <andythenorth> until they made the cars bigger :P
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21:18:38 <andythenorth> not convinced I can push NARS Horse 2px higher than UK Horse
21:31:37 <andythenorth> hmm maybe it's fine
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