IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2018-04-14
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00:01:22 <peter1138> Hmm, roadtype electric?
00:15:04 <LordAro> the disadvantage to pango is that it depends on cairo, which depends on glib
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00:17:10 <LordAro> it's not a concern as far as the source goes, but i imagine it'll bloat the dependencies a bit
00:17:55 <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: roadtype electric is for trolleybusses i assume
00:18:40 <Eddi|zuHause> (there's also currently some test tracks where trucks drive with catenary on highways)
00:23:40 <peter1138> LordAro, dependencies == someone else already wrote the code.
00:24:11 <LordAro> yeah, but packaging & distributing dependencies isn't exactly the easiest for C++ stufff
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00:26:25 <LordAro> DarkSSHClone: suspicious
00:33:36 <Eddi|zuHause> orudge: minor forum annoyance, the "OpenTTD Graphics" link in the OpenTTD section is a "http" link, and my browser always complains about "leaving secure area", however it is immediately replaced with https again
00:35:28 <peter1138> The thing warns about insecure content anyway.
00:37:05 <Eddi|zuHause> how do you mean?
00:37:48 <peter1138> Mixed http/https resources.
00:38:17 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't get such messages
00:40:42 <peter1138> Ah, it's avatars in my notification popup.
00:41:00 <peter1138> Most are locally hosted but not all.
00:41:51 <peter1138> Very old version of jquery in use, though.
00:41:53 <Eddi|zuHause> what's a notification popup?
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00:42:50 <Eddi|zuHause> (i browse without javascript)
00:43:27 <peter1138> Bloody hell, is that even possible these days?
00:44:06 <Eddi|zuHause> not really... it's getting worse every time
00:44:41 <Eddi|zuHause> but is it worse than sites nagging you about disabling your adblocker? dunno
00:45:19 <Eddi|zuHause> and it's definitely not worse than fullscreen ads
00:45:45 <Eddi|zuHause> sporadically you get sites that are just blank
00:46:11 <Eddi|zuHause> and for youtube, etc. i use a different browser
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05:09:55 <arahael> No more openttd for a week. :( Getting the screen of my laptop repaired.
05:10:44 <arahael> peter1138: I browse without javascript too on my iPad2.
05:11:16 <arahael> Eddi|zuHause: Tip: Sometimes "reader mode" can show you the content even if it's "blank".
05:12:34 <Eddi|zuHause> what's a "reader mode"?
05:14:14 <arahael> Eddi|zuHause: A special mode some browsers have - firefox and safari both have it. If the web page is compatible (Most article-based pages are), then it'll strip *all* the page presentation and just give you the text, along with relevant images,in a very easy to read format.
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08:28:00 <andythenorth> is recolour sprites a thing?
08:28:13 <andythenorth> or shall I just paint the pixels I need?
08:29:36 <Pikka> it can be a thing, I did it for UKRS2... but painting is easier.
08:34:28 <peter1138> Left you a slew of TODOs andythenorth ;p
08:35:34 <peter1138> There's more, to do with AIs.
08:35:35 <andythenorth> and Wolf has gone Lego-ing
08:36:33 <andythenorth> so what's the go? Rebase the fork? Or use your giant patch?
08:45:44 <peter1138> I'm looking through my giant patch at the moment.
09:18:23 <andythenorth> hacked a GS in place
09:18:41 <andythenorth> better than hitting 'newgame' until I get 3 random cargos I like :P
09:27:04 <andythenorth> I could do it properly and a UI to choose cargos eh
09:27:10 <andythenorth> but I want to play ottd
09:27:30 <peter1138> Play? What is this?
09:31:16 <andythenorth> oops, ran out money
09:41:45 <andythenorth> Pikka: played any FIRS ever? o_O
09:44:17 <Pikka> nope, don't think I had a current enough version until recently
09:46:07 <Pikka> I'll have to try it. could do a multiplayer game again?
09:46:31 <andythenorth> I can later in the week
09:46:34 <andythenorth> ping here is bad
09:46:49 <andythenorth> there would be a lot of 'paused for andy to reconnect'
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10:17:21 <__ln__> who would like to tell me what are _wnd.width_org and .height_org for in win32_v.cpp?
10:25:17 <__ln__> if i remove them and replace each occurrence with just .width and .height, apparently nothing changes in behaviour.
10:35:12 <LordAro> they appear to have been there since r1
10:49:00 <__ln__> i also wonder what 'bck' in _bck_resolution stands for. 'backup'?
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11:03:09 <LordAro> __ln__: looks like its only use is when maximising the window, so i'd guess so
11:12:06 <__ln__> thanks for your support :|
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11:29:36 <TrueBrain> still no response from GitHub .. last time they were rapid with a response .. guess I either did it wrong (as you don't get confermation in email) or it was a really difficult question
11:29:40 <TrueBrain> AWS also never replied ........
11:34:12 <TrueBrain> few things I like to do ... indeed, FS issues, OSX CI, Mingw CI, revamp CI to report better, look at cmake, slap LordAro for contribution.md (see bootstrap! :P), slap andythenorth for making a PR of the issue I assigned to him
11:34:34 <andythenorth> I am playing OpenTTD
11:35:09 <TrueBrain> but indeed, lets first finish tickets .. I was at page 7 of 10, so ..
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11:39:23 <TrueBrain> andythenorth: so you understood #5654 .. can you explain me what he meant? :D
11:40:56 <andythenorth> seems I thought it was bug...feature request
11:40:59 <andythenorth> whatever that means
11:41:19 <TrueBrain> I dont understand what he is talking about
11:41:28 <andythenorth> so, e.g. Operating Profit
11:41:32 <andythenorth> in game with > 1 company
11:41:33 <TrueBrain> I think, but this is reaching, that something is not reset on starting a new game?
11:41:47 <andythenorth> so no screenshot
11:41:58 <andythenorth> why spend my life reproing? :)
11:42:05 <TrueBrain> I am trying to undestand a user
11:42:09 <TrueBrain> which is the first thing we should always do :)
11:42:28 <andythenorth> ugh you pulled the argument I can't argue against :x
11:42:50 <TrueBrain> I am not asking to argue against me; I asked if you understood the user :D :)
11:42:55 <andythenorth> you must have read an agile book
11:43:20 <andythenorth> so the charts, operating profit etc, there is an option to toggle companies on and off
11:43:42 <andythenorth> I think he's suggesting the toggle state per company is persisted in openttd, rather than the save
11:44:02 <andythenorth> I thought of way to test, hang on
11:44:10 <TrueBrain> no, the other way around :D Just reproduced it :D
11:44:18 <TrueBrain> but he jumps to a solution, instead of the problem :)
11:44:22 <TrueBrain> so, when you deselect a company
11:44:29 <TrueBrain> and create a new game, or load a save game, or what ever
11:44:42 <TrueBrain> so you start a new game with your own company deselected :D
11:44:51 <TrueBrain> storing it in the save seems silly
11:44:58 <TrueBrain> just reset on load/new game, I guess
11:45:17 <andythenorth> I can confirm the report
11:45:27 <andythenorth> at least for op. profit graph
11:45:50 <andythenorth> it could cause failure demand I guess, user might wonder why their company is not shown
11:46:39 <TrueBrain> put steps to reproduce down :)
11:50:15 <andythenorth> I am going to make a TrueBrain filter for irc
11:50:57 <TrueBrain> its what I always do
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11:57:55 <andythenorth> TrueBrain: so where's my assigned issue? o_O
11:58:25 <TrueBrain> in your mailbox? Or search for it :)
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11:59:05 <andythenorth> weird I don't get notified
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12:05:52 <TrueBrain> I am creating a new ticket :( Saddddd
12:06:22 <andythenorth> I can't see how to update my github fork of OpenTTD
12:06:27 <andythenorth> I guess google knows
12:06:57 <andythenorth> oh I just do remotes
12:07:00 <TrueBrain> git rebase upstream/master
12:07:06 <andythenorth> I assumed there was a better way
12:07:17 <michi_cc> TrueBrain: I think the (only) GitHub project is mislabelled. Pango can't replace ICU because as far as I can see it doesn't do collation or sorting. What it does is layout (which what was removed from ICU), but the engine itself is HarfBuzz which removes the need for Cairo, GLib etc.
12:07:54 <TrueBrain> michi_cc: talk to LordAro, as I just repeated what he told me :D
12:08:03 <TrueBrain> I have no knowledge of ICU or Pango :)
12:08:14 <LordAro> but yeah, it was only intended to replace the layout stuff, sorting stays as ICU
12:08:23 <TrueBrain> people lie to me :(
12:08:27 <LordAro> (as the layout stuff has been deprecated and removed from ICU)
12:08:40 <michi_cc> Then you really only want HarfBuzz, as Pango is a complete text rendering engine down to the pixels.
12:08:42 <LordAro> i've been looking at pango all morning, and it is exceptionally lacking in documentation
12:09:05 <TrueBrain> because if ICU changes, a few tickets should be prioritized differently :)
12:09:17 <LordAro> and yeah, with all the extra stuff it pulls in, (cairo, glib, etc) i think some more minimal alternative might be better
12:10:02 <LordAro> michi_cc: interesting
12:10:13 <LordAro> feel like it'd be "better" to do it properly though
12:10:58 <TrueBrain> michi_cc: I made changes :)
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12:13:07 <andythenorth> so to do a PR, for a docs change, do I need to branch in my fork?
12:13:10 <andythenorth> or push on master?
12:13:36 <LordAro> andythenorth: for a change you don't expect to last very long, it's probably fine to use master
12:13:43 <TrueBrain> as soon as you psuh, GitHub helps you with the rest
12:13:47 <LordAro> as far as git/GH is concerned, it's just another branch
12:13:53 <TrueBrain> NEVER use master in your fork :)
12:13:56 <LordAro> but it's good to keep them synced
12:14:00 <michi_cc> LordAro: Yeah, but the lib is probably a good way to see how functionality maps.
12:14:18 <LordAro> TrueBrain: go on then, why does it matter :p
12:14:24 <TrueBrain> your PR, when accepted in upstream master, will have another hash; in result, you NEED to do a force push on your master if you resync
12:14:31 <TrueBrain> really bad practice :)
12:14:41 <LordAro> yeah, but it's *your* master
12:14:45 <TrueBrain> always make a branch; it is cheap, doesnt cost you anything, etc
12:15:04 <TrueBrain> do what you like in your fork; please don't teach others to do that :) Gives you a lot of more explaining to do :)
12:15:30 <TrueBrain> so andythenorth, git branch -b docs_name_whatever
12:15:36 <TrueBrain> (git will help you with the rest)
12:17:12 <TrueBrain> andythenorth: #5198 , can you explain this to me in plain english? (if you understand it :D)
12:20:34 <andythenorth> I don't understand timetables
12:20:40 <andythenorth> they have a terrible UI
12:20:43 <andythenorth> and they don't actually work
12:20:55 <andythenorth> but still...billions of feature requests
12:21:07 <andythenorth> one big ticket: timetables are broken
12:21:32 <andythenorth> sorry, timetables piss me off :)
12:21:32 <LordAro> convince ic111 to redo their timetables branch
12:21:35 <andythenorth> not being helpful
12:21:48 <TrueBrain> very helpful, closed the ticket :)
12:22:06 <andythenorth> I don't think anybody understands them
12:22:18 <andythenorth> the whole idea of changing vehicle speed to hit the timetable is voodoo
12:22:59 <TrueBrain> lol @ screenshot of #4540
12:23:02 <TrueBrain> I was like .. how bad can it be
12:24:30 <andythenorth> don't use conditional orders :D
12:25:42 <frosch123> so, when listing rev hashes in the commit message: how long should it be? i use rev-parse --short which gives different lengths for whatever, truebrain said 7 in #6711. does this even need to be defined, or do we allow whatever?
12:25:44 <andythenorth> have we got any ticket number format / bot?
12:25:53 <andythenorth> oh frosch123 has same q
12:26:17 <TrueBrain> frosch123: funny addition, if you click Squash, GitHub makes it 7 for you :)
12:26:30 <andythenorth> well frosch means hashes, but eh
12:26:35 <andythenorth> standard commit formats?
12:26:36 <TrueBrain> (and I just said GitHub makes it 7! I have no other opinion on the matter)
12:26:53 <andythenorth> we used to have "FS#6114" or so in commits?
12:27:22 <LordAro> wait, when did frosch123 get here
12:28:39 <TrueBrain> poor LordAro, feels offguard :D
12:28:44 <andythenorth> let's see how wrong I can get a PR :P
12:28:54 <frosch123> andythenorth: yes, we have a fixed format for issue numbers, we even have a bot which enforces them
12:29:16 <TrueBrain> frosch123: we should check the hash exists I guess in the commit-checker btw ..
12:29:23 <TrueBrain> might avoid pointing to a fix in your own branch or something
12:29:44 <TrueBrain> git rebase -i upstream/master
12:29:48 <TrueBrain> change 'pick' in reword!
12:29:52 <TrueBrain> (or just git commit --amend)
12:30:03 <andythenorth> I prefer amend :P
12:30:20 <frosch123> TrueBrain: does that work with your shallow clones on jenkins?
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12:30:56 <TrueBrain> frosch123: currently they are not shallow :)
12:31:02 <TrueBrain> and I think that remains that way
12:31:07 <TrueBrain> I just do have to cache it, I noticed :P
12:31:20 <TrueBrain> andythenorth: 241, and I reached the last ticket
12:31:44 <TrueBrain> 3 bug tickets left I didnt dare touching ..
12:32:10 <TrueBrain> andythenorth: please rebase, instead of merges :)
12:32:25 <TrueBrain> and how did you get twice the same commit in there?
12:32:28 <TrueBrain> that is not amending :)
12:32:41 <TrueBrain> lol; sorry, but what did you do?! :D
12:32:53 <TrueBrain> I really have no clue how you did this :D
12:33:06 <andythenorth> I suspect our work git workflow is a lot looser
12:33:19 <TrueBrain> no ... I somewhat doubt that :)
12:33:24 <andythenorth> what's in my gitconfig I wonder
12:33:25 <TrueBrain> you have your own commit twice in there :)
12:33:46 <TrueBrain> and you merged your own branch in your own branch
12:34:45 <TrueBrain> the merge is of both those commits
12:34:54 <andythenorth> I am reading my shell
12:35:09 <andythenorth> the merge comes on pull
12:35:23 <andythenorth> because I have an amended local commit, I assume
12:35:37 <andythenorth> there's no 'git merge'
12:35:37 <TrueBrain> owh, so you pushed your branch
12:35:47 <andythenorth> and then it has to merge
12:35:48 <TrueBrain> then pulled your own branch from remote
12:35:54 <TrueBrain> well, no, but I understand where it went wrong :)
12:36:00 <andythenorth> I can not do that
12:36:06 <TrueBrain> what you normally do after an amend, is a force push
12:36:07 <andythenorth> I'm just 5 years habit of doing that :P
12:36:13 <andythenorth> oh force push is banned at work :P
12:36:17 <TrueBrain> yes, for good reason
12:36:23 <TrueBrain> but if you ban force push, you ban amand too
12:36:31 <TrueBrain> those two go side-by-side
12:36:48 <andythenorth> but if I didn't push, amend is fine? o_O
12:37:05 <TrueBrain> on GitHub, if you didn't make a Pull Request, force pushes are fine
12:37:09 <TrueBrain> after that it seems to break Github :D
12:37:22 <TrueBrain> as long as you stay in your own fork, everything is fine, basically :P
12:37:22 <andythenorth> ok it's a brave new world
12:38:07 <andythenorth> so how to unfuck it?
12:38:15 <andythenorth> I can just make a new branch TBH
12:38:49 <TrueBrain> git rebase -i upstream/master
12:38:52 <TrueBrain> you see both of your commits
12:38:56 <TrueBrain> remove the one with a broken commit message
12:39:06 <TrueBrain> (depending on your editor, there is a way to remove whole lines)
12:39:11 <TrueBrain> save and exit the editor
12:40:22 <TrueBrain> (or make a new branch and cherry-pick your commit, or just make a new branch and do it again :P)
12:40:31 <andythenorth> let's learn how to rebase
12:41:08 <TrueBrain> I like how verbose interactive rebasing is :)
12:42:13 <TrueBrain> frosch123: what is your opinion about #6597, #6590 and #6521. Do you think any of those are going to be picked up in the next year or so, and are they truly worth fixing?
12:43:22 <frosch123> 6597 is mb not understanding the specs
12:43:42 <TrueBrain> so we can close it?
12:44:18 <frosch123> 6590 is valid, possibly "good first issue". reasoning: it works like this for plain rail, and is good. stations differ for no reason
12:45:06 <frosch123> mb failing at basic logic
12:45:52 <TrueBrain> but I cannot reply that :)
12:45:59 <TrueBrain> and I dont understand most of what is writtenthere :P
12:47:01 <TrueBrain> frosch123: would you mind leaving your reasoning in that ticket and closing it up?
12:47:21 <andythenorth> I'm confused by that ticket
12:47:26 <andythenorth> but I have same cargo refits in Sam
12:47:47 <andythenorth> also the ticket starts talking about A and takes a massive left turn into B and C
12:47:56 <TrueBrain> that really did not help
12:48:22 <frosch123> commented and closed
12:48:25 <TrueBrain> okay ... so many labels .. do we want to keep labels on closed tickets, or do we not care ..
12:48:28 <TrueBrain> thank you frosch123!
12:48:42 <TrueBrain> that only leaves hidden PRs in the issues .. rest is either closed or classified :D
12:49:55 <TrueBrain> keeping labels for historical reasons seems weird I guess
12:50:42 <TrueBrain> owh, I forgot lunch! bbl :)
12:52:53 <andythenorth> TrueBrain: I wanted to get rid of a few labels, not all
12:52:58 <andythenorth> 'script' is not useful
12:53:02 <andythenorth> and people have used it wrong a lot
12:54:12 <frosch123> "core" is useless, category was obligatory on fs
12:54:24 <frosch123> "build system" is useless. everyone able to report that, would make a pr
12:55:03 <frosch123> most of the old features are probably useless
12:55:32 <frosch123> probably "NewGRF" is enough instead of "NewXX"
12:56:21 <andythenorth> 'timetables' and 'vehicles'?
12:56:25 <andythenorth> 'vehicles' and 'newgrf'
12:57:19 <frosch123> so, imho delete: articulated, autoreplace, brdige, build system, clone vehicles, core, electrified rails, newcargos, newindustries, newobject, newstations, script, tgp, trams, vehicles
12:57:50 <frosch123> possibly also merge "noai" and "goal/game script" into one
12:57:54 <frosch123> not sure about the name
12:58:34 <andythenorth> there was 'script'
12:58:41 <andythenorth> was/is, but I found it confusing
12:58:43 <frosch123> yes, but too unspecific
12:58:46 <andythenorth> people are using it for random crap
12:58:48 <frosch123> there is also console :)
13:02:04 <andythenorth> most ridiculous docs update ever
13:11:29 <frosch123> cleaned up some of the labels, merging various ones into one, deleting those with only "random" task assigned to them
13:11:38 <frosch123> i am unsure about all the labels for close reasons
13:11:52 <frosch123> maybe TrueBrain has an opinon on them
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13:26:23 <andythenorth> can't see how to get any more out
13:26:39 <andythenorth> other than solving them, or invalidating after investigation
13:26:52 <frosch123> turn all "build system" ones into PRs :)
13:27:09 <andythenorth> ok so what next TrueBrain?
13:27:15 <andythenorth> some kind of priority?
13:27:23 <andythenorth> 'top 100' project?
13:35:15 <TrueBrain> so yeah, labels .. do we care about closed issues?
13:35:36 <TrueBrain> as if we remove a label, it is also "removed" on closed issues (you cannot search on them anymore)
13:35:44 <TrueBrain> seems weird to have that as reason to not remove it, I guess
13:37:03 <TrueBrain> frosch123: how did you merge labels?
13:38:02 <andythenorth> I am not massively interested in preserving label history
13:38:08 <andythenorth> it's ephemeral imho
13:38:21 <TrueBrain> in that case, let me try something .. curious if this works ..
13:38:24 <andythenorth> make it do what we need for any moment in time
13:38:33 <frosch123> TrueBrain: filter issue for label, select all, mass apply new label, delete old label
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13:39:03 <TrueBrain> frosch123: ah! That would have worked too .. smart :D
13:39:11 <TrueBrain> I now just removed a bunch of labels with no good reason what so ever :P
13:39:14 <TrueBrain> (only on closed tickets)
13:39:17 <frosch123> i only did it on open ones the first time though :p
13:39:26 <frosch123> for gs/ai i also applied it to closed ones
13:39:40 <TrueBrain> 4492 closed tickets
13:39:45 <TrueBrain> yeah ... that is going to take too long
13:40:03 <TrueBrain> (I want to remove "bug from FlySpray")
13:40:04 <andythenorth> so the 'from Flyspray' labels look like they're no longer needed?
13:40:06 <TrueBrain> guess I just remove it :P
13:40:44 <frosch123> what about duplicate, external, invalid, knownissue, wonfix and worksforme?
13:40:48 <frosch123> they are close reasons
13:40:59 <TrueBrain> yeah .. github tends to do that
13:41:04 <frosch123> but would you apply any of them when closing? :p
13:41:05 <TrueBrain> I dont really see any point in it tbh
13:41:15 <TrueBrain> get ride of them already :P
13:41:19 <LordAro> iirc GH has a "duplicate" link helper nowadays
13:42:18 <TrueBrain> I really wonder if labels like Network, and Pathfinder are of any use
13:42:35 <andythenorth> it's all project management theatre
13:42:55 <andythenorth> at work, we mostly have 'now', 'backlog', 'not this year'
13:43:00 <TrueBrain> I do like "Interface" as in general different people do Interface vs other things
13:43:01 <andythenorth> and sometimes tags so we can filter
13:43:14 <frosch123> TrueBrain: imho yes. fixing them requires special knowledge, and the tasks in those categories use the label correctly
13:43:15 <TrueBrain> priority and severity
13:43:22 <TrueBrain> frosch123: fair enough
13:43:45 <andythenorth> get rid of the close reasons?
13:43:51 <frosch123> rule of thumb: labels make sense when people are able to apply them correctly :)
13:44:09 <TrueBrain> andythenorth: I assumed frosch123 was removing them already :P
13:44:22 <frosch123> priority and severity sound useless to me
13:44:30 <frosch123> does anyone look for that?
13:44:30 <TrueBrain> minor vs critical can be very useful
13:44:38 <TrueBrain> as a new release should have no critical
13:44:44 <TrueBrain> just helps managing milestones
13:44:49 <TrueBrain> but we will see over time
13:45:14 <TrueBrain> okay, I gave all categories the same color
13:46:02 <frosch123> 19 labels? where did they all go?
13:46:55 <TrueBrain> 46 good-first-issues
13:47:28 <TrueBrain> and a big variation
13:47:59 <TrueBrain> 35 that needs triage
13:48:02 <TrueBrain> and a shitload of patches
13:49:43 <TrueBrain> what shall we do first ..
13:50:22 <LordAro> will translators be able to push directly to the repo?
13:50:33 <TrueBrain> do you want to accept a PR every night?
13:50:52 <LordAro> hence the question :p
13:52:14 <TrueBrain> so 39 issues to close before weekend ends ..
13:54:46 <TrueBrain> #4684 .. is that something we want?
13:55:03 <TrueBrain> as you can also go the other way, that shift never executes anything
13:56:30 <andythenorth> maybe it's 200 when I return :D
14:36:12 <TrueBrain> weird .. I just forced pushed to my branch, and the PR updated correctly
14:36:23 <TrueBrain> frosch123: to what did you force push your updated PR?
14:37:02 <TrueBrain> and can you try rebasing and pushing again? (to your own fork)
14:45:24 <frosch123> rebased and pushed, jenkins job is queued
14:45:42 <TrueBrain> nope, didnt change anything
14:45:45 <TrueBrain> weird it worked for me
14:45:51 <TrueBrain> I dont see what would be different
14:46:55 <frosch123> well, apparently we were not the only ones with that issue, so maybe it gets fixed next week
14:47:13 <TrueBrain> I just wonder how what I do and what you do differ ..
14:47:36 <frosch123> TrueBrain: i pushed while jenkins was still building
14:47:47 <TrueBrain> doesnt matter; jenkins only pulls it at the start
14:47:59 <frosch123> but github did not receive a result from the check yet
14:48:21 <TrueBrain> I really hope that doesnt matter at all, as those are separate
14:48:28 <TrueBrain> it is the git informing of the wrong data
14:48:32 <TrueBrain> status of commits are tracked outside of git
14:48:46 <TrueBrain> but we also had a PR with the same issue, where Jenkins was already finished
14:48:51 <TrueBrain> so that seems to be completely unrelated
14:49:00 <TrueBrain> if not, GH has some serious issues :D
14:49:25 <frosch123> it broke on their 10th aniversary
14:53:45 <TrueBrain> I hate that you cannot see tweets and responses on twitter without an account
14:58:31 <TrueBrain> good conversation, tnx :)
14:59:07 <frosch123> that changed last year
14:59:13 <frosch123> was possible before
14:59:25 <TrueBrain> yup; I really hate this attitude more and more companies have
15:00:34 <LordAro> nope, don't understand, you can see tweets and responses fine when not logged in
15:02:18 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd
15:03:52 <frosch123> haha, people thanking for "bugs" fixed, which probably never were bugs :)
15:04:06 <LordAro> well, you can still look at individual tweets fine
15:05:01 <peter1138> I have an account, and I can't click on Tweets & Replies.
15:05:32 <peter1138> But only on OpenTTDnews. I can for other tweet users.
15:09:26 <TrueBrain> I find it weird that not many more projects have issues with forced pushes tbh ..
15:10:03 <peter1138> Maybe they don't do it?
15:10:11 <TrueBrain> googling for github is annoying, with so many unrelated hits ..
15:12:17 <frosch123> i test-pushed an additional commit to the branch, let's see what happens when not-force pushing for once
15:13:38 <TrueBrain> and if you now remove it again? :D
15:13:46 <frosch123> i'll wait until jenkins is done and then force-push a removal :)
15:14:10 <TrueBrain> I can help speeding up that process
15:17:14 <frosch123> hmm, did you trigger it again?
15:17:43 <TrueBrain> it takes a few seconds for Jenkins to say it is working on it, and your hash already had a failed result on it
15:17:48 <TrueBrain> (but that was because it could not find the hash)
15:17:59 <TrueBrain> but I now see the correct ref in my local git checkout
15:18:18 <TrueBrain> so it really is a GitHub issue
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15:27:21 <frosch123> pff, my eints test svn is too old, it does not know the certs to pull
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16:22:02 <peter1138> Right, well, that's me and the bike cleaned off.
16:29:53 <TrueBrain> you got to love that the only way I can test Jenkinsfiles, is by simply pushing them ... :(
16:39:29 <peter1138> It works in a PR, no?
16:50:16 <LordAro> ah, the fun of setting up/changing a CI environment
16:53:15 <TrueBrain> writing a language that is poorly designed .. "fun"
16:57:43 <TrueBrain> finally this seems valid groovy .. now lets see if it also does what I hope it does :D
17:10:36 <TrueBrain> sorry for the spam LordAro :P
17:14:25 <peter1138> Hmm, should I do this indirect railtypes thing?
17:16:42 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd
17:19:47 <LordAro> TrueBrain: so spam, interestingly
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17:20:56 <TrueBrain> hmm, been pushing to that PR like a mofo
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17:22:23 <peter1138> Hmm, should I have a beer?
17:22:41 <peter1138> It is, but I am no longer.
17:22:48 <andythenorth> I would if I didn't have to drive
17:22:58 <andythenorth> 1st sun in 6 months
17:23:13 <peter1138> There was a bit last week!
17:23:16 <peter1138> Not as much though.
17:23:28 <andythenorth> peter1138 I had my actual coat off
17:23:32 <andythenorth> I left my hat in the van
17:23:36 <andythenorth> it must be summer already
17:24:04 <peter1138> Although they were mostly covered in mud.
17:25:50 <TrueBrain> and the errors Jenkins give are totally useless
17:34:07 <TrueBrain> I fully get why people just start a shells cript in Jenkins ...
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17:40:26 <andythenorth> looks like we use a thing called groovy
17:40:35 <andythenorth> and that has logic, that triggers shell scripts
17:40:53 <TrueBrain> yes; that is why groovy is such fail; everyone runs to shell scripts as soon as they possibly can
17:41:25 <TrueBrain> but, the CI now reports in a much nicer way the status to GitHub
17:41:45 <TrueBrain> and it now first runs commit checkers, then clang/gcc on amd64, and only then i386
17:41:58 <TrueBrain> and only after that, when I am done with it, OSX and mingw
17:42:05 <TrueBrain> so the most likely failures are as early as possible
17:42:08 <TrueBrain> reducing waste on CPU
17:44:28 <TrueBrain> still takes horribly long, but that is just OpenTTD :)
17:47:22 <TrueBrain> what is really bad design, the 'parallel' statement cannot be restricted
17:47:28 <TrueBrain> os it can really kill the machine
17:47:41 <TrueBrain> normally you do node restriction or so, but because of dockers, that is far from easy
17:47:48 <TrueBrain> owh well, it is a bit better now at least :)
17:48:08 <TrueBrain> will add some memory to the machine later; might also greatly help :)
17:48:43 <TrueBrain> ccache might also be really worth it ..
17:48:53 <TrueBrain> now first, food and movie :)
17:54:22 <frosch123> last time we named the project in eints "OpenTTD Trunk"... but "OpenTTD master" sounds weird
17:57:07 <andythenorth> it's still trunk no?
17:57:16 <andythenorth> master is just the git name for that branch eh :P
17:57:32 <andythenorth> if we used hg we wouldn't switch the name to 'default'
17:57:37 <andythenorth> that would be daft :)
17:57:40 <frosch123> well, let's keep it at that, less work converting the eints data
17:58:08 <frosch123> TrueBrain: i pushed eintsgit.py, works more or less the same as eintssvn.py
17:58:29 <LordAro> could rename the branch to trunk :p
17:58:47 <LordAro> no rules on "master" branch actually being called "master"
18:03:28 <peter1138> Hmm, maybe I should mow the lawn.
18:12:06 <andythenorth> I'm supposed to be doing yoga to unfuck my back
18:12:15 <andythenorth> but I got distracted playing ottd
18:20:12 <andythenorth> someone should make a decent station set
18:25:33 <peter1138> And there's that other one.
18:25:41 <LordAro> is MB the only person who understands grf stations?
18:26:12 <frosch123> i think mart3p did the most advanced stuff
18:26:52 <peter1138> LordAro, nah, I made some too.
18:27:33 <LordAro> i seem to recall the station set Yexo (& andythenorth?) made was for the purposes of working out how to add stations to NML
18:27:40 <LordAro> and then Yexo vanished
18:28:42 <andythenorth> yexo didn't so much vanish, as get a job at Google
18:29:07 <LordAro> oh that's where he went?
18:29:15 <DorpsGek> LordAro: Yexo was last seen in #openttd 5 years, 19 weeks, 3 days, 3 hours, 12 minutes, and 43 seconds ago: <Yexo> <NGC3982> The station glitches are CHIPS related. I adressed it to Andy the other day, and it seems like it's b0rked in some way. <- it's still in the issue tracker for CHIPS, but I haven't had time to look at it yet
18:30:24 <andythenorth> it just lacks a bbit of pzazz
18:35:50 <andythenorth> NML stations for 2020 release? o_O
18:38:09 <peter1138> What's not understandable about newstations?
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18:39:27 <frosch123> the most silly part is that there are only 4 tile types, when there are 8 possible combinations of flags to assign to them
18:39:49 <frosch123> that makes any high level language beyond arcane
18:43:04 <peter1138> Well, different flags will be either dealt with by callbacks or just different station parts.
18:46:07 <peter1138> Maybe extend the spec to support industry-tile-like layouts.
18:46:25 <peter1138> NML supports that, right?
18:47:13 <frosch123> yes, but the most weird aspect is still the track/non-track, pylon/no-pylon, wire/no-wire part
18:47:37 <frosch123> every tilespec can pick 4 of them
18:52:49 <peter1138> In ttdpatch world, non-track were always separate parts.
18:53:34 <peter1138> But we could extend from 4 tiles to something else.
18:53:57 <frosch123> hmm, there are no grfs which combine track and non-track in the same part?
18:54:18 <frosch123> hmm, maybe that is a useful thing to enforce in nml then
18:54:32 <peter1138> Doesn't it support callbacks to effectively have more than 4(8) layouts?
18:54:53 <frosch123> no, you can have many spritelayouts, but only 4 tile layouts
18:55:23 <frosch123> and tile layout only affects the 3 things above, and some "tile layout of adjacent tile" var
18:55:53 <peter1138> "You can use this to have more than 4 different sprite sets to choose from."
18:55:53 <frosch123> that's why i would like to completely hide the existence of tile layouts
18:56:18 <frosch123> CB 14 is sprite layout
18:56:26 <frosch123> cb 24 is tile layout
18:56:39 <frosch123> cb 24 is called on constructon and stored in map
18:56:43 <frosch123> cb 14 is called when drawing
18:56:55 <frosch123> cb 24 decides non-track, wires, pylons
18:57:28 <frosch123> i would like to hide the existence of cb24 :p
18:58:39 <frosch123> i..e. nml should not have a decide-tilelayout callback, but a decide wires/pylon callback
18:58:51 <frosch123> while track/non-track is fixed
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19:01:59 <andythenorth> I posted about stations, but logs show it didn't arrive :P
19:02:44 <andythenorth> "their action 2, 3 chain doesn't work like industries"
19:02:54 <andythenorth> "but eh, it's just weird, not broken"
19:03:21 <frosch123> the a123 thing is a marginal difference imo
19:06:12 <andythenorth> I just find it bizarre that the spritelayout is in the action 0
19:06:28 <andythenorth> I guess it is what it is
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19:21:05 <peter1138> I imagine if it was developed now it'd be the same as the others.
19:22:35 <andythenorth> nml could hide it away
19:22:44 <andythenorth> although that's a bit weird if you're me
19:23:05 <andythenorth> I often use the nfo docs to write nml :P
19:26:36 <Eddi|zuHause> if we were to revise station spec, i'd suggest splitting non-track from railway stations
19:26:52 <Eddi|zuHause> so you have something resemling an object, but it affects station catchment
19:27:21 <Eddi|zuHause> (and allow for the possibility to affect more than that, like base station rating or rating decay)
19:28:42 <peter1138> Yeah but no, we'd like to keep compatible.
19:29:03 <Eddi|zuHause> sure, keep the old spec, but make it deprecated
19:29:26 <Eddi|zuHause> grand unified station spec
19:29:50 <peter1138> Airport Tiles are already separate.
19:30:23 <peter1138> See, s/Airport Tiles/Station Tiles/ maybe...
19:31:01 <Eddi|zuHause> i imagine things like "livestock pen: subtract 30 days from 'last visited' time for livestock rating calculation"
19:31:51 <Eddi|zuHause> or 10*(2.5 days), or whatever unit we have there
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19:31:54 <peter1138> Nothing much seems to be airport specific in them. Hmm.
19:31:58 <peter1138> At least, spec-wise.
19:32:26 <peter1138> Well, other than Airports are their own grf type.
19:33:53 <andythenorth> any-vehicle-station-tiles
19:34:10 <Eddi|zuHause> *cough*statemachines*cough*
19:34:15 <peter1138> Road vehicles may need... yeah that.
19:34:28 <peter1138> Also! Diagonal stations!
19:34:32 <peter1138> That was a very old patch :p
19:34:40 <Eddi|zuHause> well those would be trivial if you had statemachines
19:35:31 <Eddi|zuHause> imagine the possibilities, you could have a hopper loading station that loads hoppers one-by-one and sends the train one vehicle forward each time
19:36:36 <andythenorth> I don't know if it's genius or the worst thing ever :P
19:36:49 <andythenorth> I can watch hopper trains load on YT though :P
19:41:13 <peter1138> I'm not sure a single-tile state machine will enable that :p
19:43:03 <andythenorth> let's delete the repo :)
19:46:44 <Eddi|zuHause> well, if you take airports as a base, you probably need a statemachine for a (rectangular?) set of tiles
19:47:27 <Eddi|zuHause> but if you want to extend that to train stations, you need the ability for two state machines to connect to each other to form one platform state machine
20:02:55 *** muffindrake3 is now known as muffindrake
20:11:14 <TrueBrain> glx: we found out that if you push a fake commit to your branch, and push that; then remove the fake commit, and force push that, the PR unlocks :)
20:11:22 <TrueBrain> ("fake" commit is just anything)
20:11:30 <TrueBrain> just as long as it is a new commit
20:11:34 <TrueBrain> guess even an empty commit would do :)
20:12:26 <TrueBrain> WTB: Jenkinsfile reviewer :)
20:13:58 <TrueBrain> frosch123: lol; I merged 2 commits quickly; now the commit-checker failed on the first I merged, as it is not up-ot-date :D (as the second was already on top of it :D)
20:15:04 <frosch123> so you are done with jenkins?
20:15:15 <frosch123> i did not know whether you needed that pr just for testing
20:15:26 <TrueBrain> owh, no, it is done :) Check the CI details :)
20:15:30 <TrueBrain> arent they a lot better now? :)
20:15:41 <frosch123> yes, read them earlier
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20:16:02 <TrueBrain> wauw, someone did the README :)
20:16:17 <Eddi|zuHause> "WTB" stands for "Weird TrueBrain"?
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20:22:36 <Gagarin228> Hey, guys. I have original Transport Tycoon game (NOT Deluxe) and I want attach graphics from there to OpenTTD. So, I have files TREND.GRF, TRHCOM.GRF and other, is it possible to load it as game graphic set?
20:23:14 <Gagarin228> Because OpenTTD "DOS graphic set" is from Deluxe.
20:23:27 <frosch123> deluxe has a lot more graphics
20:23:39 <frosch123> you can load original savegames, but you can only use deluxe graphics
20:23:42 <Gagarin228> It is another graphic.
20:23:55 <Eddi|zuHause> Gagarin228: there is a "original conversion set" that tries to incorporate some original graphics
20:24:05 <Eddi|zuHause> Gagarin228: but you still need a standard base set
20:24:21 <Gagarin228> Well. Maybe it is possible in old OTTD versions?
20:25:55 <andythenorth> my OpenTTD cursor keeps locking to left-side of screen
20:26:24 <TrueBrain> andythenorth: 235 .. best I can do for today :) :D
20:26:39 <andythenorth> some actually need fixed eh :)
20:26:50 <TrueBrain> there are a few easy ones
20:27:01 <TrueBrain> but .. it seems it really needs work from there on out :)
20:28:19 <andythenorth> cut out 50 as a targert
20:28:36 <andythenorth> make a 1.9.x release from it
20:28:46 <andythenorth> or 1.8.x or whatever we're on
20:28:48 <TrueBrain> setting milestones is not a bad idea tbh :)
20:29:06 <andythenorth> dunno if devs here like milestone thinking, it's a bit like being project managed
20:29:18 <andythenorth> but for FIRS I have a burn-down list for each release
20:29:20 <Eddi|zuHause> bugs go into 1.8.x, features go into 1.9.0
20:29:35 <TrueBrain> its just nice to agree on what things you want to fix for the next release :)
20:29:56 <andythenorth> and maybe group things
20:30:04 <andythenorth> instead of random stuff here and htere
20:30:12 <Eddi|zuHause> people will come at you with "but you promised this would be in release <X>" when you didn't do a thing
20:30:24 <TrueBrain> anyone who says that, send them to me
20:30:31 <TrueBrain> I will show them what I think of that attitude
20:30:40 <andythenorth> paying customers can do that
20:30:55 <TrueBrain> what was the quote .. "I will pay you back the money you paid us for doing this release"
20:31:08 <andythenorth> I return 100% of fee to unsatisfied customers
20:31:08 <TrueBrain> then I will get a stick
20:31:14 <TrueBrain> and see how far I can stick it up .. wait .. wrong story-book
20:31:24 <andythenorth> actually providing any warranty, even money back
20:31:33 <andythenorth> probably violates wording of standard GPL
20:31:57 <TrueBrain> I am a really big fan of Agile. I really like the rush of getting stuff done. The commitment really motivates
20:32:26 <andythenorth> also I have 12 wagons that can carry copper in this grf
20:32:30 <andythenorth> but I want more :P
20:32:40 <TrueBrain> do you also have tin?
20:32:48 <TrueBrain> then I can make brass out of it!
20:33:32 <andythenorth> not in this economy
20:33:36 <andythenorth> I had tin, but removed it
20:33:48 <TrueBrain> no minecraft fan? Awh :(
20:36:09 <TrueBrain> ccache (faster CI), OSX Docker, vpkg or cmake .. what to do first ..
20:36:27 <LordAro> we've already broken OSX once :)
20:36:37 <TrueBrain> OSX will be a cross-compiler
20:36:41 <TrueBrain> that error would not have been picked up
20:37:01 <Eddi|zuHause> is tin in minecraft nowadays?
20:37:31 <Eddi|zuHause> i only played ancient versions, i think
20:40:16 <TrueBrain> owh, I can also look into eints.. guess that is more important
20:40:21 <TrueBrain> but that requires braincells
20:40:53 <andythenorth> I seem to need 3 different kinds of metal wagon :P
20:47:26 <TrueBrain> right .. this Jenkins job is done, but is not finishing
20:48:38 <TrueBrain> it didnt see a docker finished
20:49:02 <TrueBrain> lets upgrade some things, and try again
20:49:28 <Gagarin228> Well. I think it is possible to port TT graphics from DOS version to set for OTTD, but only manually and by skilled people. This is result after I chose TT’s GRF files in OTTD: http://tinyimg.io/i/mJisQrb.png
20:50:44 <LordAro> i'm honestly surprised it got as far as that
20:51:13 <Gagarin228> I hope, parts of understandable graphics is from old GRF-file, not glitched from another files.
20:51:58 <DorpsGek> andythenorth: 0.578723404255
20:52:05 <andythenorth> 57% of issues are bugs :)
20:52:10 <LordAro> the point remains though, that you're missing plenty of actual graphics
20:53:54 <TrueBrain> right ... CF has more memory, and upgraded Jenkins .. lucky enough, that is trivial :D
20:54:10 <TrueBrain> (shutdown, docker pull jenkins/jenkins, ./run_jenkins) :D
20:55:12 <Gagarin228> It is possible to load saved game from TT for DOS, but it looks differently, so I thought about it.
20:56:54 <frosch123> yes, you can load them. it converts everything to the closest match
20:59:25 <andythenorth> 'squash the bugs' milestone? o_O
20:59:30 <andythenorth> not glamorous, but healthy
20:59:49 <TrueBrain> andythenorth: lets give it some room to breath :)
21:00:17 <TrueBrain> yippie, made cloning a lot faster :D Jenkins has a solution for that :D (reference clones)
21:00:45 <TrueBrain> that is going to save a lot of bandwidth :)
21:01:23 <TrueBrain> wait, this machine has 8 cores .. why did I only assign 2 ..
21:02:30 <TrueBrain> glx: I cancelled your build btw :)
21:02:36 <TrueBrain> (so dont be surprised it is red now :D)
21:02:38 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai
21:03:43 <TrueBrain> glx: yup, now we see the right commit again :) It will be build in a jiffy :)
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21:05:24 <Eddi|zuHause> <something about Giles and Buffy>
21:05:32 <LordAro> TrueBrain: you should make farm.openttd.org/ redirect somewhere
21:05:45 <Eddi|zuHause> man that was a long time ago
21:06:23 <Eddi|zuHause> TrueBrain: maybe also a "github.openttd.org"?
21:07:00 <Eddi|zuHause> the link in the topic is a bit long though
21:07:17 <TrueBrain> that is a good enough reason
21:07:52 <TrueBrain> LordAro: a pull request that can be described as: the gift that keeps on giving :)
21:09:38 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd
21:13:27 <TrueBrain> glx: please rebase your PR :)
21:13:42 <TrueBrain> we really have to rethink our current demand of rebased before CI works, but .. it is what it is :(
21:14:03 *** muffindrake1 has joined #openttd
21:16:06 <frosch123> TrueBrain: should we add an automatic rebase to the ci?
21:16:32 <frosch123> reject if auto-rebase fails
21:17:05 <TrueBrain> let me try that in a bit :)
21:17:20 <TrueBrain> LordAro: redirect in place
21:17:23 *** DorpsGek sets mode: +o TrueBrain
21:17:42 *** TrueBrain changes topic to "1.8.0 | Website: *.openttd.org (source: github, translator: translator, server list: servers, wiki: wiki, release info: finger) | Don't ask to ask, just ask | 'Latest' is not a valid version, 'Most recent' neither | English only | Logs: @logs | #openttd.dev if this channel is really spammy"
21:17:45 *** DorpsGek sets mode: -o TrueBrain
21:17:46 <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: there you go
21:19:54 <Eddi|zuHause> next idea that i'm not sure about: have "git.openttd.org" as clone url? might mess up people that try to update their old clones
21:20:08 <frosch123> hmm, what is the fastest way to get to an issue if you have the number?
21:20:12 <Gagarin228> Eddi|zuHause: I checked it… Thank you.
21:20:14 <frosch123> i keep on editing the url myself
21:20:24 <TrueBrain> frosch123: is what I do ..
21:20:42 <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: you can clone git.openttd.org I think
21:20:44 <Gagarin228> I have graphic conversion for save and save, but can’t use this newrgf in my save
21:20:46 <TrueBrain> as it redirects to github :D
21:20:57 <TrueBrain> just the old URL doesnt work
21:21:00 <TrueBrain> and that is intentional
21:21:20 <TrueBrain> if/when andy is done writing an article for the frontpage, svn://svn.openttd.org is also going to be unavailable
21:21:25 <TrueBrain> (will be svn://svn-archive.openttd.org)
21:21:34 <TrueBrain> as otherwise a large portion of people will never notice this :)
21:21:41 <TrueBrain> (upstream maintainers, mostly)
21:22:08 <Gagarin228> Is it possible to change NewGRF for saved game? Or in game.
21:22:32 <Eddi|zuHause> TrueBrain: are there fancy "moved permanently" errors you can give out for people trying to access it?
21:23:09 <TrueBrain> as far as I am aware, subversion has no MOTD
21:23:18 <frosch123> he, jenkins also counts the queuing time to the duration... that's why the builds take so differently long
21:23:32 <TrueBrain> frosch123: yes .. it is annoying me :P
21:23:40 <LordAro> svn handles a 301 by telling you about it, rather than following the redirect
21:23:41 <TrueBrain> glx: that didnt go well ..
21:23:43 <LordAro> so people will notice
21:23:46 <TrueBrain> no clue what happened
21:24:02 <TrueBrain> LordAro: 301 over svn protocol?
21:24:03 <glx> I almost broke my local repo ;)
21:24:05 <TrueBrain> what are you smoking? :D
21:24:35 <TrueBrain> glx: its really weird honestly .. github should do this for you
21:27:18 <TrueBrain> frosch123: reason it does that (the duration), is because the master is available, the job starts .. then it needs a slave .. and that is blocked :)
21:29:32 <glx> svn was way easier for me :)
21:29:54 <TrueBrain> centralized linear histories always are
21:30:20 <LordAro> it should be simpler than it is currently being
21:30:34 <TrueBrain> with my latest commit, rebasing is no longer a requirement
21:31:43 <LordAro> TrueBrain: i don't fully understand the point of doing that, can you explain?
21:31:58 <TrueBrain> rebasing in the CI?
21:32:11 <TrueBrain> when we are going to merge, we either rebase or squash, so on top
21:32:21 <TrueBrain> the biggest worry we have, that a PR is stale, but no merge conflict
21:32:23 <TrueBrain> so both options work
21:32:34 <TrueBrain> but requiring that PRs are fresh, turns out to be annoying as fuck
21:32:42 <TrueBrain> so there has to be a bit of middleground
21:32:47 <TrueBrain> now we rebase on CI
21:32:58 <TrueBrain> so his result holds true for that current master and the content of the PR
21:33:05 <TrueBrain> even if the PR was a few days old
21:33:15 <TrueBrain> of course if master moves forward, PRs CI result invalidates
21:33:16 <LordAro> makes sense, although it might be unclear to people exactly why their PR fails when running tests on their branch themselves works fine
21:33:25 <TrueBrain> for that you have links :)
21:33:29 <TrueBrain> you can click on a CI failure
21:34:36 <TrueBrain> but of course it is up to the devs to instruct PR-authors how to proceed
21:34:45 <TrueBrain> just a simple: can you please rebase to the latest master, goes a long way :)
21:36:11 <LordAro> yeah, but the rebase can work fine, but still result in a build failure
21:36:23 <LordAro> which could be unclear as to the reasons why
21:36:25 <TrueBrain> there is no perfect solution :)
21:36:36 <TrueBrain> but I rather know if I approve something, it will work in master
21:36:50 <TrueBrain> than not have a confused PR author from time to time, and break master more often :)
21:37:11 <TrueBrain> as the current: fail if the PR is not up-to-date, also turns out to be really annoying :)
21:37:44 <glx> even worse if you just rebased before doing the PR ;)
21:38:19 <TrueBrain> ugh .. we need more build nodes :D
21:38:54 <TrueBrain> 15 minutes per CI check :)
21:39:13 <glx> and not yet checking MSVC
21:39:59 <TrueBrain> I wonder how to add ccache .. having the cache survive is a bit tricky
21:47:33 <Gagarin228> TTO Conversion v1.4.1 working. But it doesn’t much at all, only replaces little of tiles. Anyway I’m already tired for this today. Here is how looks graphics in TT for DOS and (below) "DOS graphic" in OTTD v1.8.0: http://tinyimg.io/i/ITVNrLu.png
21:47:49 <glx> at least CI works this time
22:06:41 <TrueBrain> tnx glx :) Now lets try if my Jenkins-fix works :D (my PR is no longer up-to-date :D)
22:08:13 <frosch123> 5 succesful checks :)
22:10:43 <frosch123> does git rebase return a negative status on conflicts?
22:12:03 <frosch123> docs only mention status in case of interactive rebase
22:14:17 <frosch123> hmm, it only says "required" on the first check
22:14:36 <TrueBrain> if he is green, they all are
22:14:57 <TrueBrain> (and if one is red, he is too)
22:15:47 <frosch123> ok, i thought that part was only the clone
22:16:01 <TrueBrain> no; the jenkins entry is the total job that runs
22:16:07 <TrueBrain> I cannot disable or manipulate it :D
22:16:14 <TrueBrain> so I just extended on it, and from there, added a few others
22:16:24 <TrueBrain> it is only meant to easier spot what went wrong
22:31:21 *** DorpsGek sets mode: +o frosch123
22:32:08 <frosch123> since when has the channel limit only two digits?
22:32:59 <LordAro> but there are 127 people here?
22:33:11 <frosch123> i set it to 150 after the last bots
22:33:18 <frosch123> now it suddenly was 99, and i cannot set it higher
22:33:53 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd
22:35:01 <frosch123> i guess you cannot reduce the number of people in this channel like you reduced the number of open issues :p
22:35:28 <andythenorth> enforced #openttd break :P
22:36:23 <andythenorth> exercise bike lacks a beer holder
22:36:27 <andythenorth> they should remedy that
22:37:25 <peter1138> So I did my exercise today.
22:37:41 <peter1138> And then I went to a bloody all-you-can-eat Chinese buffet restaurant...
22:38:37 <frosch123> was everything fried, or was it a real chinese place?
22:39:13 <peter1138> Fried? No, not everything.
22:42:02 <DorpsGek> andythenorth: pikka was last seen in #openttd 12 hours, 55 minutes, and 55 seconds ago: <Pikka> I'll have to try it. could do a multiplayer game again?
22:43:48 <TrueBrain> frosch123: weird .. it was 120 last time I changed the topic
22:44:02 <TrueBrain> euh .. not 120 .. well, above 100
22:44:07 <TrueBrain> as it made me laugh we still had a limit
22:44:27 *** ToffeeYogurtPots has quit IRC
22:44:31 <TrueBrain> [21:17] *** You set the channel limit to 99 nicks.(I18N_PLURAL_ARGUMENT_MISSING)
22:44:35 <TrueBrain> ah ... so I did it with changing the topic
22:44:39 <frosch123> i set it permanently when this channel performed worst on oftc :)
22:44:45 *** ToffeeYogurtPots has joined #openttd
22:45:04 <frosch123> one time >1000 bots joined
22:45:05 <TrueBrain> andythenorth: how is the announcement going? :)
22:45:17 <frosch123> ottd was 1st channel on oftc :)
22:45:24 <andythenorth> I was considering closing the paste tab I have open :P
22:45:30 <andythenorth> are comms over-rated?
22:46:02 <TrueBrain> why are we not moving to Slack or something? :)
22:46:10 <TrueBrain> I dislike Discord with many people
22:46:30 <TrueBrain> right, left a pro-GDPR post on the forums :D
22:46:43 <TrueBrain> here 1 line of text is 1 line of text
22:46:48 <TrueBrain> on Discord it has this whole bla around it
22:47:11 <Eddi|zuHause> we should move to freenode!
22:47:32 <TrueBrain> for the shit they pulled, I never forgive them I guess :D
22:47:48 <glx> I'm on freenode, it's a pain to manage channels
22:48:09 <andythenorth> armchair GDPR stuff eh?
22:48:50 <frosch123> how about eddi moves to freenode? :p
22:49:03 <TrueBrain> frosch123: only if mb goes with him :D
22:49:10 * andythenorth wants an armchair exercise bike
22:49:29 <peter1138> I have a recumbent exercise bike, it's pretty similar.
22:49:34 <frosch123> get a pedel-powered irc chat device
22:50:06 <peter1138> No you don't, I ate them.
22:50:13 <TrueBrain> so I went to amazon.com
22:50:23 <frosch123> you buy cookies at amazon?
22:50:32 <Eddi|zuHause> better than "I 'ate them"
22:50:39 <andythenorth> not quite a haiku
22:50:53 <TrueBrain> frosch123: nope, THEY ARE FREE
22:50:56 <TrueBrain> (even if you dont want to)
22:51:02 <andythenorth> peter1138: is it actually any good, recumbent?
22:51:12 <andythenorth> I sometimes bust my back on an upright back
22:51:32 <frosch123> oh, you meant to cookies without sugar and fat
22:51:37 <peter1138> Dunno, I've never done a long ride on a recumbent.
22:51:45 <andythenorth> I ride 10km max in one go
22:51:52 <andythenorth> but I want to do more
22:52:04 <peter1138> Well I've done longer than that on it.
22:52:08 <andythenorth> everything goes fine, then 'ping' in my back and sciatica for 3 days
22:52:34 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: the announcement should probably adress some of the things mentioned in the forum, like how the development process is now going to be handled, how to make pull requests, how to continue to use hg for local develipment, how to communicate with the devs and stuff
22:52:37 <andythenorth> it would be funny to put in 50km a day
22:52:48 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: that's CONTRIBUTING.md
22:53:05 <andythenorth> and mostly tbh I don't care about that stuff, so I'm wrong person to write it
22:53:13 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: that's fine, but it should also be in the announcement
22:53:23 <TrueBrain> so finish CONTRIBUTING.md :D
22:53:25 <LordAro> peter1138: i walked to the shops today and thought that i should've gone riding todya
22:53:32 <andythenorth> let's bikeshed where the words should be
22:53:35 <andythenorth> before there are words :)
22:53:39 <LordAro> hopefully it's as nice weather tomorrow
22:53:47 <andythenorth> legitimate use of bikeshedding here
22:54:00 <peter1138> Yeah, I intend to go tomorrow, after that big fat chinese :(
22:54:11 <andythenorth> I've seen people use 'bikeshedding' to try and avoid sweating details
22:54:14 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: you just want a reason to get out of writing it in the first place :p
22:54:21 <andythenorth> I wrote two already
22:54:27 <andythenorth> nobody thought they were good
22:54:31 <peter1138> I am bikeshedding my bikeshed.
22:55:30 <frosch123> TrueBrain: why does 6718 fail with "not on top of master"?
22:55:54 <frosch123> it's too old to have the jenkinsfile with the rebase :)
22:56:05 <TrueBrain> he needs to rebase before he no longer has to rebase :)
22:56:06 <frosch123> this is so weird :)
22:56:31 <TrueBrain> andythenorth / LordAro: but I could really use a CONTRIBUTING.md .. we keep talking about it, but it would be really nice
22:57:00 <frosch123> didn't someone post an example from some other project two days ago?
22:57:10 <TrueBrain> and then it stopped :(
23:00:31 <LordAro> i think some combination of that and a summary of Coding Style wiki page (at least the commit messages section - that's going to be the most common problem i think) would do great
23:00:58 <frosch123> i feel like that page is too long
23:01:09 <frosch123> it should contain links to other pages to split it up
23:02:22 <andythenorth> it's somewhat a github suggestion
23:02:38 <LordAro> frosch123: hence "summary"
23:03:00 <andythenorth> we don't have to comply
23:03:00 <LordAro> i agree, the whole doc should be shorter than bootstrap's, imo
23:03:42 <andythenorth> oh yeah we can cut 50%
23:03:54 <andythenorth> etherpad would be nice for this :P
23:04:27 <Eddi|zuHause> well, of course nobody will read it. but we need it to point people to when they are wrong
23:04:35 <andythenorth> that's what policy is for
23:04:36 <LordAro> andythenorth: piratepad.net
23:05:00 <andythenorth> we could put it in a PR :P
23:05:04 <andythenorth> and then all bikeshed lines
23:05:18 <andythenorth> let's list sections to delete....
23:05:33 <andythenorth> - Reporting upstream browser bugs
23:05:40 <Eddi|zuHause> there should be no section 4.2
23:05:54 <Eddi|zuHause> because that conflicts with the most referenced readme section :p
23:06:24 <frosch123> "4.2. if you were sent to section 4.2, then 4.2 in [[this document]] was meant"
23:06:56 <andythenorth> where is code style living?
23:07:24 <frosch123> and it's way too long to put into CONTRIBUTING
23:07:49 <Eddi|zuHause> there used t be an ancient "development blackbook" section of the wiki, that was marked as outdated right from the beginning
23:07:53 <andythenorth> dunno what my hatred for mediawiki styles is :)
23:08:00 <frosch123> probably there should be links to "code style", "documentation style"; "commit message style" and "client-side commit hook"
23:08:00 <andythenorth> maybe it reminds me of old plone
23:09:12 <Eddi|zuHause> maybe mediawiki is your equivalent to brusselssprouts? :p
23:09:47 <andythenorth> bikeshedding again :)
23:10:22 * andythenorth tries reducing Bootstrap
23:11:12 <andythenorth> we can steal Bootstrap's, yes?
23:12:07 <TrueBrain> just mention it etc
23:16:27 <peter1138> Failed to get repository: database is locked
23:19:33 <andythenorth> just a cut of stuff we don't need
23:19:40 <andythenorth> could PR it if we want to line-by-line comment :P
23:20:28 <andythenorth> I think it can lose another 30% tbh
23:21:44 <frosch123> i agree on not listing the issue labels
23:22:34 <andythenorth> when you have got to end, I'll revise another draft
23:22:35 <frosch123> "check if the issue has been fixed" should probably mention nightly instead of master
23:26:55 <TrueBrain> "You must select a language other than 'text' for this paste." wtf?
23:28:46 <frosch123> wow, when did you write that?
23:29:20 <TrueBrain> frosch123: in the time between andythenorth showing his poem and now
23:30:14 <frosch123> openttd is not male
23:30:15 <TrueBrain> okay, we need a beter way to fix my spelling errors :D
23:30:50 <TrueBrain> as I am sure you have many more things to fix frosch123 :D
23:30:56 <TrueBrain> (my grammer is not that good)
23:31:26 <TrueBrain> what is a good online tool for sharing documents that doesnt need downloading?
23:31:54 <LordAro> for collaborative editing? google docs, probably
23:32:03 <LordAro> piratepad is a bit simpler
23:32:50 <TrueBrain> frosch123: feel free to make any changes :)
23:33:58 <TrueBrain> somehow it become tits :D
23:34:32 <frosch123> TrueBrain: somewhere the fs migration should mention that issue numbers were kept
23:34:43 <TrueBrain> hmm .. piratepad no workie
23:35:04 <TrueBrain> LordAro: what did you do?! :P
23:37:10 <TrueBrain> ffs ... every time I lose connection when I am typing
23:37:27 <TrueBrain> connection simply goes stale
23:38:20 <andythenorth> CONTRIBUTING is now shorter again
23:38:32 <andythenorth> and I stole some TB words about closing feature requests
23:40:14 <andythenorth> also this is probably a whole extra post some day "This of course means that "official" OpenTTD gets into competition with Patchpacks; and we approve of this. We are fully aware it can lead to a Patchpack being more popular than "official" OpenTTD; and we will be upfront about that."
23:40:14 <__ln__> "We ditched .... I strongy advise ..."
23:40:54 <andythenorth> ^^ enabling patchpacks is a strong argument for keeping core minimal, and continuing to push as much as possible onto content
23:41:02 <andythenorth> but also not making the content APIs batshit crazy
23:43:28 <TrueBrain> added some stuff about VCSes
23:43:29 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: i'd spell it "AIs" instead of "AIS"
23:44:14 <TrueBrain> who ever added \ before +, I copy/paste this on tt-forums; no need for \ :)
23:44:37 <TrueBrain> or do you suggest I copy/paste the render? :D
23:44:53 <TrueBrain> I like that piratepad showed what was edited :P
23:45:13 <andythenorth> we use etherpad at work for similar thing
23:45:22 <TrueBrain> it needed a download :(
23:45:24 <andythenorth> it's really good for spec, also ops firefighting
23:45:37 <andythenorth> also drafting customer emails
23:47:10 <TrueBrain> sadly, I'm in the line of work where putting anything on any cloud is a big no-no
23:47:13 <TrueBrain> makes these things often a bit harder
23:47:31 <Eddi|zuHause> "¿¿ LIST OF KNOWN FEATURES THAT IDEALLY WOULD BE BETTER (RV OVERTAKING ETC) ??" <-- drop this
23:47:45 <andythenorth> hoped you'd say that
23:47:51 <andythenorth> TrueBrain: we host our own etherpad
23:48:07 <andythenorth> we're very limited on public cloud services we can use
23:48:31 <frosch123> TrueBrain: awesome text :)
23:48:37 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: at best, a link to a wiki page tracking "good" feature requests. or simply a link to the forums
23:49:00 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: that wiki page exists and is rotting horribly :)
23:49:11 <andythenorth> I just wonder if it shold be like known_bugs.txt
23:49:11 <Eddi|zuHause> i would expect so :p
23:49:31 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: possible, but then have it in a separate file
23:50:01 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: problem is, it still has to be kept up to date
23:50:14 <andythenorth> it's not hard imho
23:50:20 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: so forum is really probably the only place to go
23:50:26 <andythenorth> - overtaking: no
23:50:37 <andythenorth> - signals on bridges: no
23:50:41 <andythenorth> - diagonal roads: no
23:50:50 <andythenorth> - tunnels under sea: no
23:51:21 <andythenorth> incidentally the average forum / FS requester overlaps strongly with my 8 year old
23:51:42 <andythenorth> he has many many ideas
23:52:04 <__ln__> win-win-win-win = -2win
23:52:21 <Eddi|zuHause> "The issue tracker is the preferred channel for bug reports, features requests and submitting pull requests, but please respect the following restrictions:" <-- i'd take feature requests out of this sentence
23:52:56 <andythenorth> done Eddi|zuHause
23:53:29 <Eddi|zuHause> there should be an explanation what a "pull request" is for people who never heard that word before
23:54:01 <andythenorth> can't they google? o_O
23:54:13 <andythenorth> if they can't, they won't be able to learn C++
23:54:32 <andythenorth> provide a better one? o_O
23:54:45 <__ln__> i started learning C++ before google existed
23:55:05 <TrueBrain> andythenorth: I added eggs to my text :D
23:55:18 <andythenorth> is it in forums yet?
23:55:30 <TrueBrain> still reading it over
23:55:52 <andythenorth> very responsible :)
23:58:19 <TrueBrain> stooppppp making it non copy/pastable :)
23:58:54 <TrueBrain> its not a markup post! :P
23:59:26 <LordAro> not really an issue as such, but the number of ; in it is interesting
23:59:32 <LordAro> native speakers rarely use ; at all
23:59:44 <TrueBrain> people dont use it enough
23:59:49 <TrueBrain> I cannot use it in Dutch
23:59:55 <TrueBrain> well, I can, but not really
continue to next day ⏵
