IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2018-04-13
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09:54:17 <Arveen> happy Friday the 13th everyone
10:01:51 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd
10:05:51 <andythenorth> I closed some of your issues :)
10:05:55 <andythenorth> you are now issue free :)
10:06:16 <Pikka> what issues did I have?
10:08:39 <andythenorth> there are also a bunch of newgrf ponies
10:08:46 <andythenorth> from George and Michael
10:08:55 <andythenorth> which I don't know whether to close or not
10:09:04 <andythenorth> fact is, opening a ticket doesn't get the feature added
10:11:25 <__ln__> speaking of inflation, does it still work the way that if i choose to start my game in e.g. 2050, all vehicles cost a billion but the the initial loan is still £10k? (and maximum loan is barely enough to buy one vehicle)
10:11:51 <Pikka> I don't think it ever worked that way
10:12:12 <Pikka> unless you're playing with a newgrf that makes vehicles cost a billion in 2050
10:12:13 <__ln__> i do think it worked somewhat that way
10:12:43 <__ln__> and obviously i didn't mean a literal billion, but "a lot" compared to how much money you can loan.
10:12:48 <Pikka> inflation starts from the year you start the game. if you start in 2050 the initial loan won't be inflated, but neither will the vehicle costs
10:13:41 <__ln__> gotta check how it works when i get home
10:32:48 <andythenorth> ^ I kind of agree with that, but eh, unix shell doesn't provide confirmation of changes
10:32:52 <andythenorth> 'worse is better'
10:33:09 <andythenorth> 'reload_newgrfs' -> "15 newgrfs have been reloaded"
10:33:14 <andythenorth> seems redundant really
10:38:17 <peter1138> Should reply with failure if not successful
10:39:01 <peter1138> set without a parameter should be invalid
10:39:12 <peter1138> should be get parameter for that
10:39:22 <peter1138> mind you it's not an api is it
10:42:49 <planetmaker> oh, we have all issues imported from flyspray. That's great :)
10:45:19 <peter1138> Of course, andythenorth's been closing them willynilly ;)
10:45:40 <andythenorth> Truebrain too :P
10:48:44 <andythenorth> docks on water :P
11:11:34 <andythenorth> I work around that behaviour with signal placement, but it's annoying ^
11:12:08 <andythenorth> manually reversing the train causes a path evaluation obvs.
11:12:22 <LordAro> at what point do you just close all of them? :p
11:14:16 <andythenorth> when they're done
11:16:03 <andythenorth> I think there are about 100 which are legit *and* somebody might actually do them
11:19:08 <peter1138> andythenorth, just better docks. Buoys as docks is stupid.
11:19:41 <peter1138> Point #3 is interesting though.
11:20:14 <andythenorth> build on water, anywhere
11:20:30 <andythenorth> no newgrf spec needed
11:20:31 <peter1138> Anywhere... hmm, not quite.
11:20:44 <andythenorth> not on water that has other things on it
11:21:10 <andythenorth> actually my idea is terrible
11:21:14 <peter1138> I think a dock needs to be next to land. Enforcing that with just a single tile is tricky.
11:21:26 <peter1138> And it needs to be visible.
11:21:34 <andythenorth> I think it would be nice to build docks at sea, for fishing grounds and so on
11:21:40 <andythenorth> or it might just be tedious :P
11:21:44 <peter1138> Don't fishing grounds have built in docks?
11:21:54 <andythenorth> they do, but they suck
11:22:54 <andythenorth> helicopter fishing bothers people
11:23:13 <peter1138> So a fishing grounds can have helicopters "landing" there?
11:23:41 <andythenorth> also accepts passengers by default
11:23:47 <andythenorth> so I can deliver pax to fishing ground
11:23:56 <andythenorth> like in places where they kill political prisoners that way
11:24:27 <andythenorth> just let player build the station I think
11:24:31 <peter1138> Do they just use the 18h tile and get the same behaviour?
11:24:47 <andythenorth> steel mill doesn't have built in stations eh
11:24:47 <peter1138> I guess fixing the spec won't fix the existing newgrfs.
11:24:59 <andythenorth> I like 1 tile docks, built on water
11:25:12 <andythenorth> but then...how does newbie player get harbour graphics?
11:25:18 <andythenorth> it's logical, but stupid also
11:26:03 <peter1138> Fix the spec to allow fishing grounds etc to not have a helipad/passenger bullshit
11:26:10 <peter1138> Then get the newgrfs fixed eventually.
11:27:10 <andythenorth> there's something where having a station shared between all companies messes up cdist too
11:28:13 <andythenorth> can't find it :P
11:28:45 <peter1138> That's "relatively" "simple", "just" tag cargo chains with company id in stations.
11:28:50 <peter1138> Disallows cargo sharing then.
11:29:22 <peter1138> Dunno how you'd treat cargo production.
11:29:46 <peter1138> I guess station rating is per-station as well, not per company @ station.
11:29:58 <peter1138> So oilrigs are broken already :D
11:30:37 <andythenorth> it's all terrible :)
11:30:40 <andythenorth> and yet it's fun
11:34:21 <__ln__> andythenorth: unless the patch by minexew has been applied since, i assume it still is. though i haven't tried ottd in a while, especially not in fullscreen.
11:36:31 <__ln__> i could look at it this weekend, and see if i could improve the two points i brought up myself
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11:41:44 <arahael> What are some good rail designs I should look at? I have a really, really long two-way track... And I have traffic jams. :(
11:42:12 <arahael> I'm thinking of making four-track tracks, with the inner two bi-directional, rather than the classic two-track tracks.
11:42:43 <andythenorth> I like one-track-per-train :D
11:42:48 <andythenorth> works really well
11:42:54 <andythenorth> quite a lot of space needed :P
11:42:59 <arahael> What's the fun in that? ;)
11:43:17 <arahael> I'm trying to make *every* coal station service the one station.
11:44:16 <arahael> I forget how big I made it... I think it's 1024x1024, but I've only worked the one edge.
11:44:22 <arahael> Thanks, will check that out!
11:44:40 <andythenorth> can get lost in there :)
11:48:35 <arahael> Yeah, I'm looking for the track designs. :)
11:50:15 <Eddi|zuHause> <andythenorth> there's something where having a station shared between all companies messes up cdist too <-- cdist should have no problem with shared stations. just transfer payment is broken
11:51:33 <arahael> Only one company in this came. :)
11:51:47 <arahael> My big problem is that the simple two-line track just jams.
11:52:22 <arahael> So the trains are always stopping.... Then they get to *half* their max speed before they stop again.
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12:00:11 <Eddi|zuHause> might need an alternate way to read the archived flyspray then?
12:10:58 <peter1138> Eddi|zuHause, isn't everything (in the openttd project) migrated?
12:11:11 <peter1138> I guess it is easier to read, but.
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12:23:46 * arahael wonders if a 100% rating is possible (for cargo, at a train station)
12:24:53 <Eddi|zuHause> temporary with advertising
12:25:21 <arahael> I ignore the towns entirely in this game.
12:25:33 <arahael> Can I make trains unload faster?
12:26:28 <andythenorth> you can with newgrf
12:26:37 <andythenorth> but it's not just click a button :)
12:28:35 <arahael> I was hoping that there was something in the game that let me. :) Like perhaps, shorter trains.
12:29:09 <arahael> With this particular line, my absolute bottleneck is the unloading speed.
12:29:21 <andythenorth> what's your drop off station look like? o_O
12:29:25 <arahael> (Only one track in the station - it's a 7-track station, but I can only reserve one)
12:29:27 <Eddi|zuHause> as long as the train is not longer than the platform, train length has no influence
12:29:56 <arahael> andythenorth: The tracks fan out and fan in.
12:30:51 <Eddi|zuHause> arahael: before you're thinking about quad-tracking your line, you should think about optimizing your station. a single track can easily fill 3 platforms
12:31:35 <arahael> Eddi|zuHause: Yeah, this close to the station I have a naive quad-tracked line. Fans out to 6 platforms.
12:31:38 <Eddi|zuHause> sometimes even more
12:31:54 <arahael> Perhaps I should add more tracks to the station, I'm not in classic TTD anymore.
12:32:07 <Eddi|zuHause> depending on how fast your trains accelerate out of the station
12:32:18 <arahael> Ah, yes, it's a ro-ro station.
12:32:49 <arahael> Hang on, let me make a screenshot.
12:34:18 <arahael> Sorry, let me try again, without the stupid finance. :)
12:35:37 <Eddi|zuHause> that depot and tight curves are surely a bottleneck
12:36:16 <arahael> I didn't realise the curves were that tight?
12:36:43 <Eddi|zuHause> do you have original or realistic acceleration?
12:37:04 <arahael> I haven't changed it, so probably original?
12:37:20 <arahael> I basically downloaded openttd, and got to playing. :)
12:38:36 <Eddi|zuHause> i suggest realistic, original has this annoying habit that every tiny 1 tile climb slows down your trains massively. but with realistic you really need to look at your curve radius
12:39:14 <arahael> Looks like the default setting is realistic, afterall.
12:39:16 <Eddi|zuHause> where a "curve" is anything where your train turns more than once in the same direction
12:39:30 <arahael> And what's a "tight" curve?
12:39:50 <arahael> Eg, \/ would be a tight curve, but \_/ is not?
12:40:03 <Eddi|zuHause> a "tight" curve is anything where your train slows down below its top speed
12:40:20 <Eddi|zuHause> could be \_/, could be \___/ or even more
12:41:01 <arahael> At what point would it start to slow down?
12:41:26 <Eddi|zuHause> there's a table in the code that maps distance between curve pieces to speed limits
12:42:19 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't have it memorized, and it's different for trains and maglev
12:42:36 <arahael> I just tested that out.. Made one of those curves far bigger - it makes a big difference.
12:44:41 <arahael> I think I'm going to play with that, focusing on getting the train the **** out of the station.
12:52:43 <andythenorth> flashing rear light for trains
12:53:02 <andythenorth> can't use the red on-off palette cycle for crossings
12:53:22 <andythenorth> can I detect if 'full animation' is off ?
12:53:58 <andythenorth> looks like display_options ANIMATION
12:55:29 <arahael> I guess I now need to optimise the loading a bit more.
12:55:59 <arahael> But it's keeping up with demand anyway, now.
12:56:03 <Eddi|zuHause> that looks fine, but now i would move the station away from the border and extend the other side too
12:57:04 <arahael> How many tiles should I shift it?
12:57:39 <Eddi|zuHause> and add more tracks while at it
12:58:04 <arahael> It's not really the bottlenck.
12:58:13 <arahael> The bottlenck is my network jamming.
13:01:29 <Eddi|zuHause> i would definitely remove the S-curve from the entry
13:01:52 <Eddi|zuHause> i.e move the bridges to the left, and the station to the right, until it's straight
13:02:22 <arahael> How many tiles of the power station do I need to cover?
13:02:42 <Eddi|zuHause> use the ? tool to find out which tiles accept coal
13:03:24 <Eddi|zuHause> you need to cover one tile that accepts coal
13:03:47 <arahael> So just one tile in the power station? (The ? tool doesn't really seem to show anything useful?)
13:04:05 <Eddi|zuHause> some tiles don't accept coal
13:04:41 <arahael> The dialogue changes completely.
13:05:04 <arahael> Most of the tiles didn't accept coal, so I assumed that was the regular dialog. :)
13:05:27 <arahael> Looks like I can shift it by 5.
13:05:39 <Eddi|zuHause> some industries are a bit weird that way
13:05:51 <Eddi|zuHause> it's even worse for oil refineries
13:06:27 <Eddi|zuHause> because there's only like 2 tiles in that giant industry that actually accept oil
13:14:53 <andythenorth> can I use a remap sprite in a layer to knock out a colour?
13:15:06 <andythenorth> e.g. one of the pinks like 226?
13:15:18 <andythenorth> I want to use false colour to aid drawing, then remove it
13:15:51 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, that should work
13:16:03 <andythenorth> I can do it in PIL trivially, but eh
13:16:40 <Eddi|zuHause> well, i don't know about layers, but in general, i did successfully remap a magic pink to a real colour before
13:18:06 <andythenorth> I need to pass a specific palette
13:18:21 <andythenorth> I can do this in PIL in 3-4 lines
13:18:27 <andythenorth> but then I don't learn much
13:19:04 <Eddi|zuHause> well, yes, nmlc will reject pngs with wrong palette
13:19:30 <andythenorth> nah I mean in the switch expression
13:19:34 <andythenorth> there's an option to remap there
13:20:12 <andythenorth> not sure how palettes are defined
13:21:51 <andythenorth> arahael: it's much less fun, but boats have infinite capacity :D
13:22:03 <andythenorth> until you run out of CPU power :P
13:22:54 <arahael> Heh, yeah: They can even overlap each other, I know - but I don't do non-fun. :)
13:23:43 <Eddi|zuHause> arahael: alright, as next optimisation step, i would consider removing the X-crossings between parallel tracks. the game is not good with balancing choices between tracks, so they do more harm than good usually
13:24:21 <arahael> Are there any alternatives, or just flat out remove them?
13:25:05 <Eddi|zuHause> arahael: if you have a quad main track, you should allow the trains to make a choice when entering the main line, but once they made this choice, they should commit to it
13:25:42 <arahael> My bright idea was that in the event of a jam, they could switch to the free track. :(
13:26:23 <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, but like people weaving through traffic, that might look like they get through faster, but they cause ripple effects in the traffic that slows it down for everyone
13:28:02 <arahael> So how would I get them to commit to the right track to start with? Remember, this track goes all the way along the edge. (Not quad all the way out... Only the tiny bit nearest the station is quad, at the moment)
13:28:06 <Eddi|zuHause> managing this kind of flexible traffic correctly is really hard
13:29:44 <arahael> You'll see how I've got the inner tracks fully bi-directional, and the other-track strictly in their direction?
13:29:55 <arahael> I was hoping that design might work.
13:30:50 <Eddi|zuHause> investigating jams is tricky, because you might need to look at the last train that got through to isolate the cause of the jam
13:32:18 <Eddi|zuHause> but like i said, X-crossings mostly do more harm than good. and bi-directional pieces of track are even worse
13:32:43 <arahael> I'll have to remove them, then. Is there still value in doing quad tracks?
13:33:53 <arahael> Awesome - I'll get right onto that, then!
13:34:09 <arahael> Just gotta sort out this other nearby station, the coal output has become massive.
13:35:01 <Eddi|zuHause> the important bit about the design of a quad-track mainline is that you must make sure that trains never ever stop on the main line
13:35:33 <Eddi|zuHause> so you need to look at things like priority signals when merging branch lines into the main line
13:36:22 <Eddi|zuHause> and when the pickup station on a branch line is full, you need to have enough space that trains can queue up outside of the main line
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13:37:12 <arahael> I've never really played with priority signals.
13:37:23 <arahael> Is there a good discussion about them?
13:37:43 <Eddi|zuHause> mind you, i would never play like this :)
13:38:41 <arahael> You're a one-track-per-train guy, yes?
13:41:30 <arahael> The previous game I played... Was 10 years ago. :)
13:41:43 <arahael> Your map is quite a bit smaller. :)
13:42:27 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, that is a bit unusual for me, but at that time, i needed a map size that i could fill relatively quickly
13:42:31 <arahael> Ah, so you're more into connecting the industries.
13:42:48 <Eddi|zuHause> that game was 90% passengers
13:42:57 <arahael> I wanted to do that... But given the size of the map, and I was just really tired, so I was thinking: "Lets do the coal. Just the coal..."
13:43:03 <arahael> Passengers are remarkably easy.
13:43:12 <arahael> But you end up having to do city design.
13:43:20 <arahael> Which is just an irritation, for me.
13:43:58 <Eddi|zuHause> that game was to test a variant of a cargo destinations patch
13:44:14 <arahael> No idea what that is! :)
13:45:41 <Eddi|zuHause> it makes cargo have an opinion of where it wants to go, instead of the player deciding where to pick it up and drop it off
13:45:59 <arahael> Oh, that would be fun.
13:46:33 <andythenorth> nice map Eddi|zuHause
13:46:34 <Eddi|zuHause> the game now includes "cargo distribution" which does that in a sense, but it only considers connections that you actually deliver to
13:46:46 <andythenorth> I don't have the patience for so many bus routes
13:47:24 <Eddi|zuHause> the patch that i tested there went a step further, and considered all possible destinations on the map
13:47:48 <Eddi|zuHause> so if there were two power stations, and you only connected one of them to your network, you would only get half the coal
13:48:35 <arahael> I wonder which is more realistic.
13:49:05 <Eddi|zuHause> which is a nice idea, but it caused all sorts of followup problems like industries closing because their transport rating is too low
13:49:25 <Eddi|zuHause> and it had performance issues
13:49:52 <Eddi|zuHause> is there a mercurialhub?
13:50:07 <peter1138> I suspect it's the hub part that matters ;p
13:50:15 * arahael is now wondering how best to do intersections at a quad track.
13:50:43 <arahael> Eddi|zuHause: Perhaps the price you get for the cargo could be multiplied by the desirability of that destination, or osmething?
13:50:55 <peter1138> Path signals. Tracks crossing tracks.
13:51:15 <arahael> peter1138: Yes... I figured path signals woudl be involved. :)
13:51:16 <andythenorth> and maintaining our own poor clone of it is evil
13:51:21 <andythenorth> and the internet, broadly, is evil
13:51:39 <peter1138> Yeah, it took me ages to get gitea working properly, still having issues :S
13:51:53 <arahael> peter1138: What's the issue with github, incidentially?
13:52:09 <peter1138> Their ToS/privacy policy upsets some people.
13:52:14 <andythenorth> easy to track individual contributors
13:52:22 <andythenorth> no segmented identity
13:52:51 <arahael> peter1138: Meh, that's part and parcel of being free, I would say?
13:53:05 <andythenorth> aggregated networks are very hostile to people who need to keep parts of their lives separate
13:53:28 <Eddi|zuHause> arahael: price changes like that don't make a lot of sense. you're being paid for transporting. you're not buying the coal at the mine and selling it at the power station
13:54:23 <andythenorth> but github won, so eh
13:54:29 <arahael> Eddi|zuHause: That's a fairly good point.
13:54:42 <arahael> andythenorth: Oh, it's aggregated now?
13:54:57 <andythenorth> your public profile lists all projects you contributed to, afaik
13:55:07 <andythenorth> and you are only allowed one username
13:55:08 <peter1138> Yeah, even if it's just a bug report.
13:55:23 <andythenorth> so there are 10 different reasons why that might be bad for some people
13:55:54 <arahael> I did notice that, which annoyed me at the time but I didn't have the energy to care much.
13:56:25 <andythenorth> it's kind of limiting if any of the following apply:
13:56:41 <andythenorth> - it's an infosec attack vector
13:56:53 <andythenorth> - you have to keep paid work and hobby work separate
13:57:02 <andythenorth> - you contribute to politically sensitive projects
13:57:38 <andythenorth> - your contributions could reveal things you want to keep secret, e.g. health status, gender, sexuality, other protected characteristics
13:57:43 <arahael> Luckily, for me, we have our *own* github for work. But I still have the organisation show up on github. :(
13:57:47 <Eddi|zuHause> so you're actively trying to talk me out of creating a github account now?
13:57:48 <andythenorth> - your contributions could make you a target for persistent trolls
13:58:31 <andythenorth> it's basically fine if you're in a group with relatively more privilege, or you just don't give a fuck
13:58:58 <andythenorth> and tech is mostly built by those with relatively more privilege
13:59:10 <andythenorth> so all is for the best in this the best of all possible worlds
13:59:44 <andythenorth> ultimately it's a train game, we're not trying to save the world, so tradeoffs eh
13:59:50 <arahael> I'm part of a (very small) minority, but sadly, such that it feels like I really should be more politically active, yet I don't want to worry too much about how it migh taffect work. Blegh.
14:01:07 <andythenorth> social networks are good at limiting political activism only to those with strong views
14:01:18 <andythenorth> they remove any middle ground where consensus could be built
14:01:21 <arahael> I have strong - but very contrary views. :(
14:01:35 <andythenorth> I think social networks are a fairly toxic development
14:01:39 <andythenorth> watching Zuck was interesting
14:02:42 <arahael> Zuck is privilaged as all heck.
14:03:00 <arahael> Luckily, in some ways, so am I. (I have a job, a reliable income, etcetera)
14:03:12 <arahael> Within my minority, that's unusual.
14:08:39 <andythenorth> born deaf or lost hearing during life?
14:09:12 <Eddi|zuHause> luckily, you don't need hearing in IRC :p
14:10:11 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm starting to think my choice of cheap-o-free mail provider was terrible
14:10:23 <Eddi|zuHause> it doesn't let me send a mail to 40+ recipients at a time
14:10:54 <arahael> andythenorth: I was 1 year old, raised "oral", but now sign.
14:11:28 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: gmail? o_O
14:11:38 <andythenorth> obvs. google get all your stuff
14:11:51 <Eddi|zuHause> not an idea i'm too fancy of
14:12:29 <arahael> andythenorth: Google has it anyway.
14:12:49 <arahael> I use fastmail, but I hear protonmail's good for privacy.
14:13:18 <arahael> So I have a tri-rail track... TWo going one way, one going the other. (Soon to be a quad-rail track). However...
14:13:31 <arahael> Almost every train is using only one of the two incoming tracks. :(
14:13:47 <arahael> I'd say 1 in... 7? Uses the other rail.
14:14:37 <Eddi|zuHause> with two parallel tracks, you need to balance the pathfinder penalties
14:14:45 <arahael> Of course, that 1/7 is fast.
14:14:49 <arahael> Eddi|zuHause: How do I do that?
14:15:12 <Eddi|zuHause> make sure both tracks are roughly the same length, amount of curves, crossings, etc.
14:16:28 <Eddi|zuHause> if they are roughly equal, you now can optimise your merge intersections so trains distribute themselves equally, depending on where the current reservations/red signals are
14:16:59 <Eddi|zuHause> that's where the priority signals come into play
14:17:17 <Eddi|zuHause> so the merging train won't cut off a train on the main line, and choose the other track
14:18:25 <Eddi|zuHause> if you have long signal distance, priority signals are actually not that difficult to do
14:18:57 <arahael> Back in two secs... Gotta go snort some water.
14:20:04 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm having a bit of trouble identifying which side of the track your trains go on
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14:23:35 <arahael> So I have two tracks going to the left, and one to the right.
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14:23:35 *** colde_ is now known as colde
14:28:35 <andythenorth> so a random switch seems to wipe out graphics layers
14:28:45 <andythenorth> wondering if it clears a register somehow
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14:32:13 <arahael> Just my luck - that was a netsplit.
14:33:56 <andythenorth> does FORWARD_SELF(0) thrash register 0x100?
14:34:27 <arahael> In any case, Eddi|zuHause - my *miniscule* change of moving a signal closer ot the intersection right at the station fixed the weights up.
14:35:00 <arahael> Thanks so much for all your help! :) I have to get to bed about now...
14:35:17 <andythenorth> that's...annoying
14:36:33 <andythenorth> that means some multi-part vehicles can never have random sprites with layers
14:38:10 <arahael> I didn't catch that one.
14:38:17 <Eddi|zuHause> before that you were saying you're australian
14:39:38 <arahael> Ah, you lost everything I said, then! Summary: I had two tracks going to the left, one to the right: But adding *one* signal right near the station fixed the weights up completely perfectly. :(
14:40:10 <andythenorth> so why does FORWARD_SELF(1) not trash 0x100?
14:40:30 <arahael> Eddi|zuHause: I don't understand how that 3yF3ONBJU5Vi.png works.
14:41:01 <arahael> I have to get to bed now, though, so perhaps I'll ask again or will do some reading later.
14:41:02 <Eddi|zuHause> arahael: so, trains on the main line come from the bottom right and go to the top left
14:41:25 <Eddi|zuHause> arahael: they treat the exit signal like a normal signal, nothing changes for them
14:41:56 <Eddi|zuHause> arahael: but a train approaching the exit signal on the main line will change that combo signal on the branch line to red, so no train can come there and cut it off
14:42:06 <andythenorth> maybe I have to wait for frosch
14:42:08 <peter1138> andythenorth, use a different register?
14:42:33 <arahael> Eddi|zuHause: Hmm, I think I'll have to study that and give it a play tomorrow. Thanks again for your time!
14:42:33 <Eddi|zuHause> arahael: if both main lines are blocked by approaching or leaving trains, the combo signals both are red, and the entry signal turns red as well, so a train will wait there until one of the sides opens up
14:43:04 <arahael> Eddi|zuHause: G'night!
14:46:27 <andythenorth> I reckon I just don't set count 0 for type 84 random varact2
14:46:32 <andythenorth> problem goes away
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14:58:08 <Pikka> andy: don't you need it set to 0?
15:00:46 <andythenorth> I do if I want to read 0x100
15:01:04 <andythenorth> but doing that is a BAD IDEA if I want to use spritelayers
15:01:14 <andythenorth> register collision
15:01:56 <andythenorth> that's why I can't set 0 there
15:02:11 <andythenorth> on the plus side pikka bob, rear lights via layers
15:02:44 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: then what is the actual problem?
15:03:07 <andythenorth> the actual problem is incorrectly trying to use 0x100 in two places in the same chain
15:03:20 <andythenorth> the actual solution is trivial, because one of the uses is accidental
15:03:21 <Eddi|zuHause> that's ok, if you do it in the right order
15:03:58 <Pikka> oh, right. if it's non-0 it doesn't read the register
15:04:44 * andythenorth could fix, but chores
15:05:54 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: ah, so you set FORWARD_SELF(0) in the expectation that would read the current vehicle, which just happened to work because 0x100 happened to be 0 all the time
15:06:32 <andythenorth> docs aren't quite comprehensive enough
15:06:47 <andythenorth> the footnote suggests all values are valid also
15:07:48 <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, i'm expecting it tries to constantify them, and if that fails, stores the result in 0x100
15:08:19 <andythenorth> ...which would nicely clear 0x100
15:13:08 <Eddi|zuHause> probably not the correct way to document it
15:14:28 <andythenorth> probably not, but eh
15:14:41 <andythenorth> dishwasher won't unload itself, and no-one else will document it :P
15:21:15 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm not 100% that's what it does though
15:21:49 <Eddi|zuHause> there's some strange "1 <= random_switch.type_count.value <= 15" test that i'm not sure what it's intended for
15:23:15 <Eddi|zuHause> so if i read it correctly, if it's a constant and that constant is between 1 and 15, it doesn't use 0x100
15:23:21 <Eddi|zuHause> otherwise it overwrites 0x100
15:25:20 <andythenorth> that would make sense somewhat
15:26:00 <Eddi|zuHause> i think 1..15 is the range that the NFO expression can handle directly as constants
15:26:41 <Eddi|zuHause> in any case, using a register is a side effect that better be documented correctly :)
15:28:22 <andythenorth> yes that's clear
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17:22:35 <supermop_work> this elevator vendor i am working with is named 'rusty doom'
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18:55:51 <peter1138> Wonder where to start on NRT.
18:55:55 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd
18:56:33 <peter1138> andythenorth will know
18:58:02 <peter1138> Perhaps but the history is messy
18:58:14 <andythenorth> we want cleaner commits?
19:00:13 <peter1138> Fewer unrelated commits.
19:00:28 <peter1138> Fewer fixing of previous commits.
19:01:05 <peter1138> What is a RoadTypeIdentifier?
19:01:36 <frosch123> a tuple of baseroadtype and roadsubtype or so
19:02:17 <frosch123> base being road/tram, subtype being the index in the pool
19:07:36 <peter1138> It's very... organic.
19:08:31 <andythenorth> you could refactor, we have grfs to test with
19:08:34 <andythenorth> and expected behaviour
19:08:44 <andythenorth> no unit tests afaik :P
19:08:54 <peter1138> That's normal for ottd :D
19:09:25 <Eddi|zuHause> unit tests are tricky to build for a program that was never desinged with "units" in mind
19:09:42 <andythenorth> well we could have functional tests :P
19:09:50 <andythenorth> I don't fancy writing them though
19:10:05 <andythenorth> I considered if I should write tests for FIRS
19:10:19 <andythenorth> as I am fixing a total clown shoes mistake in the last release :P
19:11:04 <peter1138> I might just go out on the bicycle instead.
19:13:23 <andythenorth> hmm Jenkins is angry about FIRS
19:13:27 <andythenorth> is my release bad? o_O
19:14:19 <peter1138> Connection refused.
19:14:40 <Eddi|zuHause> 17:07:54 [workspace] $ hg pull --rev default
19:14:42 <Eddi|zuHause> 17:07:54 abort: error: Connection refused
19:15:16 <Eddi|zuHause> who is maintaining coop servers right now anyway?
19:15:21 <andythenorth> probably frosch123
19:15:39 <frosch123> anyway, daily restart cron is still not enough for kallithea
19:15:47 <andythenorth> but I am not to be trusted with SSH :P
19:16:38 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: sounds like a piece of infrastructure that should be ripped out and replaced with something different
19:16:52 <andythenorth> for better or worse
19:17:54 <andythenorth> hmm Jenkins refusing my auth creds
19:17:57 <andythenorth> the auth system hates me
19:18:05 <andythenorth> nvm it's building
19:18:13 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: i don't understand
19:18:52 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: 1. you want more tests, 2. we have a github project for testbuilds of ottd, 3. there was a project on devzone to test various build configurations
19:19:21 <frosch123> 4. if you have time for whining you also have time for that
19:19:48 <TrueBrain> frosch123: you dont even sort on static vs non-static?
19:20:00 <Eddi|zuHause> the problem isn't really the amount of time i have
19:20:03 <TrueBrain> andythenorth: tnx for the spam :D Nice work :)
19:20:19 <andythenorth> who is writing the CONTRIBUTING.md then?
19:20:27 <andythenorth> I have some stuff for it
19:20:41 <frosch123> TrueBrain: the variables are grouped logically, sorting them by external/internal linkage would make the code worse imho
19:20:55 <andythenorth> "We close issues to keep focus, too many issues is overwhelming"
19:21:02 <TrueBrain> frosch123: I cannot believe _ means global
19:21:10 <TrueBrain> that is ... so anti-any-other-pattern-I-know :D
19:21:11 <andythenorth> "A closed issue can be re-opened if you make a good case"
19:21:41 <frosch123> TrueBrain: i think the normal pattern is "never prefix stuff with _, it is reserved for OS and compiler internals"
19:22:02 <TrueBrain> in languages like Python it means private/protected
19:22:27 <TrueBrain> and sorting static vs non-static can really help .. there is normally a huge difference between your publicAPI and your internals
19:22:34 <Eddi|zuHause> does python actually enforce that or is that just a convention?
19:22:36 <TrueBrain> but .. yeah .. I should have checked the coding style before blabbing :D
19:22:40 <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: convention
19:22:53 <frosch123> TrueBrain: i think you are talking about static/non-static in class scope
19:23:13 <frosch123> i think "static" has 4 meanings in c++14
19:23:29 <TrueBrain> frosch123: .... static in my book means: only in this scope (when outside a class etc)
19:23:49 <TrueBrain> so no other cpp file can use it
19:23:57 <TrueBrain> ("private" to that file)
19:24:02 <TrueBrain> ran out of other ways to describe what it does in C :D
19:24:21 <TrueBrain> I know little about C++ ... :(
19:24:53 <frosch123> yes, in source file scope "static" is similar to "private" in classes :)
19:25:16 <TrueBrain> so now you have 2 local variables, 1 global, and 1 local again
19:25:21 <TrueBrain> I would at least assume that had to be grouped
19:25:28 <TrueBrain> so it is more clear what is kept local, and what can be picked up global
19:25:34 <frosch123> they are grouped by meaning, not by access class
19:25:56 <TrueBrain> okay; good to know :)
19:26:12 <frosch123> i also do not sort variables by "int first, then pointers" :p
19:26:14 <TrueBrain> still cannot believe _ means global :P
19:26:26 <Eddi|zuHause> i vaguely remember some language where "static" meant "this variable retains its value through multiple function calls"
19:26:36 <TrueBrain> sorting rule is easy .. alphabet! Done :)
19:26:44 <andythenorth> ok let's get to 200 now
19:26:49 <Wolf01> Eddi|zuHause: yes, php, java, c#
19:26:57 <__ln__> Eddi|zuHause: did the name of that language begin with 'C'?
19:27:24 <TrueBrain> frosch123: I am still surprised :D But I will get over it :) Tnx!
19:27:48 <Eddi|zuHause> __ln__: i'm switching between languages often enough that i cannot associate language features with language names anymore
19:28:47 <TrueBrain> yeah, so it is what I asusmed it was, even in C++
19:29:11 <TrueBrain> it just reads so annoying ... I really learnt to love the visual game you can do with programming languages :)
19:29:16 <TrueBrain> owh well :) Coding style is coding style
19:29:28 <TrueBrain> *mutters something about _ for global ... *
19:29:43 <peter1138> We've always used _ for global.
19:29:49 <Eddi|zuHause> TrueBrain: that one is easy to solve, remove all global variables
19:29:55 <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: go for it
19:30:12 <andythenorth> refactoring is easy when we have so many tests
19:30:36 <TrueBrain> I do remember in 2004 there was a lot of debate about anythin in the freaking coding style
19:30:41 <Wolf01> <Eddi|zuHause> TrueBrain: that one is easy to solve, remove all global variables <- I already did it for some
19:30:42 <TrueBrain> that was very painful
19:30:57 <TrueBrain> especially the * placement
19:31:08 <peter1138> Haha, I was just going to comment about that.
19:31:17 <peter1138> One person want it the wrong way.
19:31:37 <TrueBrain> that person wanted a lot of things against everyone else tbfh
19:31:52 <Eddi|zuHause> i have a name popping up in my head
19:32:01 <TrueBrain> but okay .. the project did get a lot better with an established coding style
19:32:21 <TrueBrain> if we talk about anything that was annoying in the old days
19:33:17 <peter1138> I wonder if I should look at the final NRT changes, and then split it up logically.
19:33:48 <TrueBrain> still not over _ .. lol :D Sorry, just a bit flabbergasted
19:33:49 <__ln__> there was one good thing about that though... we immediately got to know what is not funny, and when a discussion has ended.
19:34:32 <peter1138> "Codechange: rogue blank line"
19:34:39 <peter1138> So not even a code change.
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19:35:11 <andythenorth> so only 50 'enhancements from flyspray' left TrueBrain
19:35:23 <Eddi|zuHause> this peer dude seems active again
19:35:29 <andythenorth> the AI and GS, I can't comment so much
19:35:41 <andythenorth> the newgrf, it's just doing hard politics :(
19:36:09 <glx> I tried to fix my PR but it didn't end well
19:37:03 <TrueBrain> glx: I have asked GitHub what is going on, because for some reason after a force push, GitHub is not doing what it says it should be doing
19:37:12 <andythenorth> or am I spreading FUD?
19:37:19 <TrueBrain> but they havent responded yet
19:37:46 <glx> TrueBrain: yes because force push is the usual way to update PR as google told me
19:38:05 <TrueBrain> and I think it is really a bug on their side
19:38:26 <TrueBrain> but I use a plugin many others also use, and didnt change this part
19:38:31 <frosch123> andythenorth: my todo list has the item "add option to make catchment area logical, default it to on and hide it in expert/arcane settings"
19:38:38 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: it's easily solved by having a switch delivery/pickup
19:38:43 <glx> on the web side it's correct, but I can't get the PR in github desktop
19:39:13 <frosch123> glx: can you extend your kick script for "easy solved"?
19:39:26 <glx> it shows the old commits instead
19:39:32 <TrueBrain> glx: yup; CI has the same issue
19:41:48 <andythenorth> I assumed JGR would have station coverage, but no
19:41:51 <andythenorth> surprised by that
19:42:12 <frosch123> at least i think we talked about it 5 years ago :p
19:42:41 <TrueBrain> glx: only workaround I have found, is the create a new PR :P
19:42:46 <TrueBrain> I really have no clue why it does this
19:42:52 <Eddi|zuHause> well, mathematically speaking, area for pickup is union[each station tile](extend(tile, catchment radius)), whereas area for delivery is extend(enclosing rectangle(all station tiles), catchment radius)
19:42:57 <andythenorth> oh JGR has some kind of zoning
19:43:04 <andythenorth> but I tried to figure it out before
19:43:23 <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, the zoning patch exists
19:44:26 <Eddi|zuHause> i think it does something slightly different, though
19:44:38 <TrueBrain> andythenorth: can we close 6607?
19:45:09 <andythenorth> TrueBrain: these are the ones where I don't want to touch the politics tbh
19:45:27 <andythenorth> some of Michael and George's requests seem pretty reasonable
19:45:37 <andythenorth> but they're very out of any loop that would get them done
19:45:37 <TrueBrain> lot of requests seem reasonable
19:45:48 <TrueBrain> but ..... keeping them around is not helping either
19:46:03 <TrueBrain> so, will it be implemented in the next year? :D
19:46:12 <andythenorth> and nobody else wants to
19:46:24 <Eddi|zuHause> we could also unify the two areas, by storing the area as rectangle in the station list, and upon move_to_station call we go through the list of stations and pick one that the house/industry is in, instead of looking in a tileloop around the house/industry
19:46:47 <andythenorth> JGR does have station catchment shown
19:46:53 <TrueBrain> andythenorth: ugh, I see your issue, reading the ticket better
19:46:56 <Eddi|zuHause> that will result in stations getting cargo that previously didn't
19:47:22 <andythenorth> Michael makes requests that I think are totally reasonable
19:47:31 <andythenorth> but he won't get them because he pissed you all off
19:47:38 <andythenorth> so it's a dead ticket
19:48:11 <TrueBrain> 6607 seems like a trivial one for someone new to learn NewGRF, I guess
19:48:58 <TrueBrain> *reads frosch123 commit messages* *reads the code* *puzzled* *head hurts* *Why are you doing this to me*
19:49:20 <TrueBrain> ah, there is another branch check lower
19:49:57 <LordAro> frosch123: you could remove the trailing ; as well :p
19:50:17 <andythenorth> I always freak out about errors :P
19:51:27 <frosch123> hmm, repushed before jenkins was done
19:51:32 <frosch123> i am sure this breaks stuff :p
19:51:53 <TrueBrain> Jenkins can handle that fine :)
19:52:00 <glx> if you forced everything will break ;)
19:52:26 <TrueBrain> you did before without issue
19:52:28 <frosch123> but yes, could also have been a case for squasing
19:53:01 <Eddi|zuHause> so when can we expect DorpsGek to announce merges here?
19:53:22 <TrueBrain> go to #openttd.notice
19:53:33 <Eddi|zuHause> that was not the question
19:53:39 <TrueBrain> but an answer nevertheless
19:54:23 <peter1138> You can go your own waaaaaaaaaaaay
19:54:31 <glx> DorpsGek doesn't announce things in .notice anyway
19:54:38 <Eddi|zuHause> i was expectin that in #openttd.notice you wanted to run tests how spammy/reliable it is, and then reenable it here
19:55:15 <TrueBrain> and frosch123's PR now also broke
19:55:20 <TrueBrain> seriously ... what .. the .. fuck ...
19:55:36 <LordAro> which GH plugin are you using?
19:55:39 <glx> it's clearly a github bug
19:55:48 <TrueBrain> the bug is in the GitHub repo itself
19:56:11 <LordAro> did you get a response from GH?
19:56:12 <glx> because the display on the site is correct
19:56:15 <TrueBrain> refs/pull/<id>/head reports wrong hash
19:56:50 <TrueBrain> this is just bloody annoying
19:56:57 <TrueBrain> but cant find anyone else complaining about it
19:56:59 <Eddi|zuHause> i see, the transition goes smoothly :)
19:57:12 <peter1138> It was working, right?
19:58:36 <Eddi|zuHause> depends on your definition of "it", "was" and "working", i suppose
19:59:10 <glx> indeed github desktop still shows the old version in PR
19:59:29 <TrueBrain> even their own client is fail .. well, I hope they can find what is causing it
19:59:51 <LordAro> not helpful, but shows someone else having the problem
20:00:39 <TrueBrain> indeed, not alone :)
20:01:12 <TrueBrain> it also seems to be recent
20:01:16 <TrueBrain> it started yesterday or so
20:01:35 <TrueBrain> as before that we did a few rebases just fine
20:01:41 <andythenorth> now we learn about problems caused by our host :)
20:02:05 <TrueBrain> yes! Lets move for every bug we find to another!
20:02:09 <TrueBrain> in no time we will be using notepad!
20:02:11 <Eddi|zuHause> are those the evil ones?
20:02:25 <LordAro> pretty sure github are the evil ones
20:02:40 <andythenorth> negative has to be red
20:02:51 <andythenorth> it's completely illegible, but it has to be red
20:03:42 <TrueBrain> doesnt github have an issue tracker or something ?
20:03:50 <LordAro> andythenorth: lighter grey?
20:04:04 <andythenorth> that would require the entire UI to be refactored
20:04:43 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: maybe something can be done with shadow colour?
20:04:53 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: or a setting like for the map colours?
20:04:54 <andythenorth> I tried it a black shadow
20:04:59 <andythenorth> it's moderately better
20:05:09 <andythenorth> interestingly the various charts disagree about negative
20:05:20 <andythenorth> some have black y axis -ve labels
20:05:26 <andythenorth> finance window is black
20:05:55 <Eddi|zuHause> that's probably a missing {COLOR} in some STR_WHATEVER?
20:06:16 <Eddi|zuHause> or different string code used?
20:07:52 <TrueBrain> okay, #6584 is very cryptic ... is the issue here that in the german version the top line below the image is missing?
20:08:06 <Wolf01> Eddi|zuHause: did the fix for yesterday work? The train depot list stuff
20:08:33 <andythenorth> the g is truncated in last line TrueBrain
20:08:43 <andythenorth> as though it's not given enough space or so
20:08:47 <TrueBrain> but there isa also les sinformation in that window!!
20:08:49 <andythenorth> I don't know the UI box model
20:08:53 <TrueBrain> the cost is not there
20:08:57 <andythenorth> but that would be overflow hidden
20:10:20 <andythenorth> but how and where, dunno :P
20:10:21 <TrueBrain> but I like he complains about the letter at the end :D
20:11:23 <TrueBrain> I like how for many things adf88 has a patch uploaded
20:11:45 <Eddi|zuHause> Wolf01: well, the initial "dirty" fix "worked", but the "proper" fix didn't work out
20:12:48 <TrueBrain> andythenorth: possible we need priorty labels of some sorts .. lot of projects have that .. for example, #6582 is a bug, but .. meh; not that imprtant. Yet others are important
20:13:08 <andythenorth> I would wait a bit
20:13:20 <andythenorth> I agree basically, but there are other ways to skin that cat
20:13:47 <TrueBrain> but more flavours of the same :D
20:14:25 <TrueBrain> #6581 .. another one .. sure, it would be nice .. but .. priority-wise it is somewhere down there
20:14:30 <TrueBrain> yet it sounds minor to fix
20:16:43 <TrueBrain> I love your comment on #6558 andythenorth :D
20:16:46 <TrueBrain> it is very descriptive :)
20:17:17 <TrueBrain> last one is emptytyyyyyyyy
20:17:36 <andythenorth> oh I couldn't delete in FS
20:17:51 <andythenorth> I probably fat fingered a comment, and couldn't remove it
20:17:53 <TrueBrain> I like the movie :)
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20:19:53 <TrueBrain> #6548 suggests there was a change upstream that made neither of the 3 work?
20:21:39 <LordAro> andythenorth: how's that move to github announcement coming along?
20:21:50 <TrueBrain> LordAro: how is CONTRIBUTIONS.md coming along?
20:22:38 <TrueBrain> not really, but a start
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20:26:44 <Eddi|zuHause> so... i just totally necro-ed a topic
20:28:48 <Eddi|zuHause> <TrueBrain> minor / critical <-- todo/urgent?
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20:30:55 <Eddi|zuHause> maybe we could classify them into estimates of how much work it would be? <10loc, <100loc, major refactoring, complete redesign?
20:34:12 <Eddi|zuHause> that sounds more like voting :p
20:37:53 <andythenorth> I would not bother with prio. currently
20:37:56 <andythenorth> it's either getting done, or not
20:38:00 <andythenorth> there's no customer
20:38:10 <andythenorth> management don't need a report :P
20:38:42 * frosch123 assigns 90% of human resources to pango :p
20:39:02 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: but if you had some kind of hierarchy you could avoid reading the same 200 issues over and over each time you make a review?
20:39:28 <andythenorth> I think it's easier to just close most of them
20:39:52 <andythenorth> at work I have a redmine milestone for 'not now'
20:40:03 <andythenorth> and anything that's valid but not urgent goes in it
20:40:04 <LordAro> we have a milestone "Later"
20:40:06 <andythenorth> then we ignore it
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20:40:15 <frosch123> so, which docs should be on wiki, and which on github?
20:40:17 <andythenorth> there's always other high prio. things to do
20:40:29 <frosch123> coding style vs contributning etc?
20:40:41 <andythenorth> code style benefits little from being in wiki
20:40:46 <LordAro> frosch123: given we have an actual wiki, i wouldn't bother using GH wiki
20:40:57 <andythenorth> if you have power to enforce code style, you have power to commit
20:41:09 <frosch123> yes, but should contributing contain anything, or links to wiki?
20:41:14 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: you might want to consider doing a thing from the not-now package even though there's higher priority stuff going on, one per day
20:41:24 <LordAro> some sort of cut down version of the wiki page, probably
20:41:26 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: plausible yes
20:41:32 <LordAro> and also explaining rebasing and where issues are
20:41:38 <andythenorth> I would link the wiki to GH
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20:41:42 <andythenorth> rather than vice versa
20:41:53 <andythenorth> might be taste though, I find the wiki hard to read
20:42:36 <andythenorth> I also always systematically distrust wikis
20:43:14 <Eddi|zuHause> so, i now have successfully made a local clone of openttd
20:43:39 <Eddi|zuHause> in a directory called "trunk"... :p
20:48:00 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: something like "if you switch from population to name, also switch from descending to ascending"
20:49:13 <andythenorth> oh so it specifies a sort order per field
20:49:17 <Eddi|zuHause> not sure, however, whether that is just a "fix MY usecase" change, or if it's a change beneficial to the general public
20:49:44 <andythenorth> all UI stuff with binary choices, unless there's an obvious 'better', don't touch it
20:49:57 <andythenorth> changing it for 1 patcher might piss off 999 players
20:50:15 <andythenorth> it's taste, not aesthetics
20:51:32 <Alberth> I initially implemented it inconsistent, as it made the most sense, but it was changed to something consistent later
20:53:10 <Alberth> names alphabetically starting at A, population starting with the highest value
20:53:25 <peter1138> I really should've gone out on the bicycle. I could've been back by now.
20:53:34 <andythenorth> they are total heart sink when I read 'livery' issues
20:53:36 <peter1138> (If I'd've liked a short ride)
20:53:45 <andythenorth> still light here peter1138 :P
20:53:50 <andythenorth> and not even very cold
20:53:53 <peter1138> Didn't I have a patch for subtypes for somethin?
20:54:12 <peter1138> No, I have a backup.
20:54:12 <andythenorth> subtypes are a raging disaster
20:54:21 <andythenorth> they should be sacked, but eh
20:54:34 <peter1138> They were fine but we extended things in a different direction.
20:54:43 <andythenorth> I find them a bit depressing :D
20:54:51 <andythenorth> they don't work as expected
20:54:57 <andythenorth> they don't work with auto-replace
20:55:02 <andythenorth> they don't work with auto-refit
20:55:11 <peter1138> Which ttdpatch didn't have.
20:55:14 <andythenorth> they aren't liveries, but they're described as such
20:55:41 <andythenorth> oh so we built a roundhole for a perfectly good square peg? o_O
20:56:05 <andythenorth> shoulda just done 'livery labels'
20:56:11 <andythenorth> days of wiki drama
20:56:25 <andythenorth> BNSF will overlap with something no doubt
20:56:42 <peter1138> Basically there's no point to them now that we have unlimited* vehicle types.
20:56:55 <andythenorth> I use them for cargo capacity refits on ships
20:57:12 <andythenorth> they're a bit broken, but it's the least worst way to vary capacity by +/-10%
20:57:37 <andythenorth> let's do livery labels :)
20:57:47 <andythenorth> and a UI where livery can be set per vehicle
20:58:08 <Eddi|zuHause> speaking of "unlimited*" vehicle types, the vehicle list needs a text filter :p
20:58:18 <peter1138> I welcome your patch.
20:58:25 <Eddi|zuHause> i noticed that yesterday while scrolling through the CETS vehicle list :p
20:58:28 <peter1138> Or rather, I welcome your PR.
20:58:44 <peter1138> Or feature request on github :D
20:58:45 <andythenorth> PR is something quite different in my house
20:58:52 <andythenorth> I am married to a doctor
20:58:59 <andythenorth> it involves gloves
20:59:26 <frosch123> are you the training subject?
21:00:48 <andythenorth> can we reduce some more of the Very Important 276 open issues :P
21:00:50 <peter1138> I reckon for roadtypes we should first add a load of hardcoded types to the game...
21:00:51 <andythenorth> before adding more
21:00:56 <peter1138> Then bodge newgrf stuff on later
21:01:17 <LordAro> because that worked out so well :p
21:01:49 <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: we haven't even managed to put trams into the default vehicle set
21:04:40 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd
21:04:53 <Wolf01> Stop making peer reset your connection
21:07:14 <peter1138> merge, merge, sync, sync, merge , merge, change, merge, sync, fix, fix, merge, comment, merge, merge
21:07:38 <LordAro> sounds like a rebase will go most of the way to fixing it :p
21:07:45 <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: problem with that line of thought is that the more you add to the default game, the more difficult you make it for NewGRF authors to remove default stuff and replace it with their own ideas
21:07:52 <peter1138> Oh, that "fix, fix" was the same commit but with different hashes in different branches
21:08:05 <peter1138> Eddi|zuHause, sorry, should I have used /s ?
21:08:49 <Eddi|zuHause> no, it's fine, i just wanted to clarify that :p
21:09:59 <peter1138> Maybe I should've kept that single-commit version and broken it up.
21:10:21 <peter1138> I used to rewrite all my patches several times.
21:10:36 <Eddi|zuHause> ... and then still not commit them :p
21:10:49 <peter1138> Once the goal is complete it's easier to see what needs to be changed;.
21:11:04 <Eddi|zuHause> yeah that is pretty normal
21:11:27 <Eddi|zuHause> once you know what you're actually trying to do, you can start over and do it properly
21:11:48 <peter1138> Only issue is I'm not familiar with this code.
21:13:01 <peter1138> Oh, I did keep the diff. Hmm.
21:14:02 <TrueBrain> andythenorth: I amgoing through al the pages currently
21:15:10 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: there's one missing there, pikka wanted to place semaphore signals
21:15:20 <andythenorth> 'all open' TrueBrain?
21:15:47 <TrueBrain> I really need to sit down for patches
21:16:01 <Eddi|zuHause> you do this now standing up? :p
21:16:35 <andythenorth> am I missing the 'next issue' link in Github?
21:16:52 *** triolus has joined #openttd
21:18:26 <triolus> hello. I'm looking to start a new openttd game and would like to go for a more 'model train' appearance rather than massive junctions/networks. I've never used newgrfs, so could you recommend some that would suit what I'm going for?
21:18:26 <TrueBrain> #6501 ... sounds that works as intended .. need to check code :(
21:19:59 <andythenorth> it's another potato / potato issue
21:20:12 <andythenorth> and conditional orders don't really work anyway
21:20:25 <andythenorth> changing that will just produce another ticket 'change it back'
21:21:14 <supermop_work> triolus: what region do you wish to model
21:21:40 <Eddi|zuHause> triolus: large map with sparse towns/industries (so you have space for nice layouts), pick a region/country and there's probably a NewGRF vehicle set for that
21:22:10 <Eddi|zuHause> triolus: also things you might want to consider are a patchpack with "daylength" option, and industry sets
21:23:06 <Eddi|zuHause> fill all remaining slots with station and eyecandy object sets :)
21:24:20 <triolus> I'm going with the sub artic, so the PNW would be nice. Canada maybe
21:24:41 <Eddi|zuHause> then NARS is probably for you
21:24:55 <Alberth> play 64x64 no room for anything massive
21:26:00 <Alberth> the screenshot forum is full with grf lists, have a browse there
21:26:01 <Eddi|zuHause> Alberth: "you have this 2x3m room, now build a nice H0 gauge layout"?
21:26:23 <Alberth> better make it road only :p
21:26:56 <Alberth> I once played firs at 64x64, it was packed with industry, no room for rails :p
21:26:57 * andythenorth waits for TrueBrain to get to 6416
21:27:00 <triolus> the NARS trains look nice. kinda what I'm going for. what would be good for stations, objects, and road vehicles?
21:27:34 <triolus> nm, it has a road vehicle one =) awesome
21:27:55 <Eddi|zuHause> also pick a ship and plane set :)
21:28:14 <andythenorth> triolus: industrial stations
21:28:46 <Eddi|zuHause> i use ISR for industries, NewStations for passengers
21:28:59 <Eddi|zuHause> Chips might also be useful, if you use FIRS as industry set
21:29:03 <triolus> yea, ships are important. gonna do a 55-60% water map to get nice islands
21:29:36 <andythenorth> there are no good ship sets
21:29:45 <andythenorth> I'm working on that :P
21:30:33 <Eddi|zuHause> there's also a "North American City Set" for houses, but i'm not sure how good that really is
21:30:33 <Wolf01> We should really make andythenorth a curator, review grf lists, and a "download this preset" in game
21:30:56 <andythenorth> that's a horrible idea
21:30:56 <Eddi|zuHause> that sounds like a terrible idea :p
21:31:30 <andythenorth> if I liked grfs, I wouldn't be making my own
21:32:00 <Eddi|zuHause> "here we have this person who can't make up his mind and decides the opposite every few days, let's make him the authority on what is good"
21:32:22 <supermop_work> andythenorth's curated grf set for 2018 (contains 0 grfs)
21:32:52 <supermop_work> do you still have your tuk tuk?
21:32:53 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: or we could do what most other authors do
21:32:58 <andythenorth> and ship the first lame idea they have :P
21:33:04 <andythenorth> then stick rigidly to it
21:33:15 <andythenorth> supermop_work: kinda, but not in my posession directly
21:33:21 <andythenorth> triolus: rubbish :)
21:33:47 <andythenorth> Squid is a bit better
21:33:56 <supermop_work> i am trying to get my company to buy an old citroen corrugated van
21:33:58 <andythenorth> Michael's NewShips is nice, but not very big set
21:34:11 <andythenorth> supermop_work: the silver ones?
21:34:17 <supermop_work> for marketing/pop up food truck use
21:34:19 <andythenorth> they usually get turned into artisan food trucks
21:34:29 <andythenorth> those and three-wheelers
21:34:32 <supermop_work> yeah, not sure if we'd paint or wrap it
21:34:49 <supermop_work> three wheelers are tougher here
21:35:00 <andythenorth> there is some US company makes utility three wheelers
21:35:02 <supermop_work> hard to convince whatever state that they are legal
21:35:04 <andythenorth> more common than I expected
21:35:08 <TrueBrain> enhancement requests which only state a solution .. *close*
21:35:10 <andythenorth> I saw a Bajaj in Austin
21:35:14 <andythenorth> I'll find a picture
21:35:17 <supermop_work> the little piaggi ones are very rare here
21:35:20 <Wolf01> I'm trying to convince my boss to hire an osteopath/psychologist/lawyer
21:35:40 <supermop_work> they are usually just decorative garage queens, not street registered
21:36:04 <supermop_work> i want a tiny korean clone of tiny japanese truck
21:36:07 <Wolf01> We have any sort of problem on my company
21:36:11 <supermop_work> but too small for food
21:36:19 <Eddi|zuHause> have a picture? i'm having a hard time imagining what you're talking about
21:36:58 <peter1138> /home/petern/Projects/OpenTTD/src/station_cmd.cpp:2954:12: warning: variable ‘catenary_bits’ set but not used [-Wunused-but-set-variable]
21:37:40 <andythenorth> it's a 4-stroke petrol, not as powerful or large as mine
21:37:51 <TrueBrain> andythenorth: #6416 was easy
21:38:10 <andythenorth> I wrote an essay
21:38:19 <triolus> so I'm also gonna take aviator aircraft, unless someone knows better.
21:41:34 <supermop_work> ive seen some people withsurplus ex-police meter maids
21:45:35 <andythenorth> 100 less then 24 hours ago
21:45:53 <TrueBrain> #6398 is tricky .. really a bug, really no simple solution
21:46:10 <TrueBrain> do we keep bugs around that have as resolution: when-ever-bananas-is-rewritten
21:46:58 <TrueBrain> andythenorth: I asked you a question in that ticket :D I really do not know ..
21:47:40 <andythenorth> TrueBrain: which ticket? o_O
21:48:01 <TrueBrain> the one I linked you in, and talked about 1 minute before I wrote that? :P
21:49:05 <andythenorth> closed it TrueBrain
21:49:14 <peter1138> Ah, same error with plain NRT.
21:49:36 * peter1138 rebases, foolishly.
21:52:14 <andythenorth> TrueBrain: ok I read some more bugs, it might be time to hide some away in 'not now' project?
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21:52:41 <andythenorth> that might equal 'closed' in reality, but eh, it seems neater
21:54:05 <andythenorth> yeah they're bugs
21:54:12 <andythenorth> but literally no kittens die
21:54:20 <andythenorth> there's quality, and then there's quality
21:54:47 <andythenorth> maybe call a project "No Dead Kittens"
21:55:14 <TrueBrain> 6167 sounds like a simple fix, but it is gold plating
21:55:24 <TrueBrain> still, hiding them away is not helping either
21:55:35 <TrueBrain> (as hiding is the same as closing)
21:55:42 <andythenorth> so let's close some
21:55:45 <TrueBrain> but it is why I mentioned a label for priority (or severity maybe)
21:55:55 <TrueBrain> lets not close for the fact of closing please
21:56:04 <TrueBrain> like 6167, I see no reason to close it
21:56:08 <andythenorth> well the main thing is to be able to focus, so maybe it is a label
21:56:11 <TrueBrain> just I would love to mark it as: minor
21:56:24 <TrueBrain> but as you said earlier .. lets do priority later :)
21:57:41 <TrueBrain> and I was serious yesterdy: lets not second guess eachother; if I or you marked it as: keep (by removing the "from Flyspray"), lets not revisit it and challenge it again :) We have too many to look through ;)
21:57:43 <andythenorth> this is surely nonsense?
21:57:48 <TrueBrain> (on that note, reopening #6253 :D)
21:58:49 <TrueBrain> what was nonsense btw?
21:59:08 <andythenorth> "I block my train in with signals, and then it is blocked"
21:59:29 <TrueBrain> signals are the wrong way :)
22:00:35 <LordAro> i think the actual issue is that it stops dead and doesn't (try to) reverse
22:00:49 <TrueBrain> do trains otherwise?
22:00:53 <TrueBrain> and they do after some time, he writes
22:00:54 <andythenorth> I have verified the issue
22:01:01 <peter1138> Depends on the settings.
22:01:09 <andythenorth> what else is supposed to happen?
22:01:12 <TrueBrain> andythenorth: verified what?
22:01:24 <andythenorth> I can stop the train by building 1 way signals over it
22:01:30 <andythenorth> so signals work correctly
22:01:34 <andythenorth> trains work correctly
22:02:28 <Eddi|zuHause> i think it should trigger a "train reverses at end of line" event
22:02:29 <andythenorth> it has to be on signal density 1 to trigger it
22:02:34 <andythenorth> (trigger the stop)
22:02:44 <TrueBrain> owh, no, it is a bug
22:03:07 <TrueBrain> make rail, put a one-way signal on it, make train go
22:03:10 <TrueBrain> it will ignore the signal
22:03:52 <Eddi|zuHause> i think it's fine if a train ignores a signal it already passed with the front engine
22:04:14 <TrueBrain> it always ignores it
22:04:15 <andythenorth> " But the problem is that they shouldn't stop in the first place."
22:04:25 <TrueBrain> owh, it depends on the signal type
22:04:37 <andythenorth> trains should *definitely* stop on one-way signals
22:04:38 <andythenorth> they should *not* drive through them
22:04:52 <andythenorth> I don't understand any proposed solution
22:05:10 <TrueBrain> ah, PBS are ignore if they are the wrong way
22:05:14 <TrueBrain> trains do reverse immediatly
22:05:32 <andythenorth> not if you set signal density to 1, or sometimes 2
22:05:43 <andythenorth> they stop, waiting path
22:05:49 <Eddi|zuHause> the bug report says must be at least 2 signals to trigger
22:06:00 <andythenorth> but he doesn't want reverse
22:06:05 <andythenorth> "Besides, current behaviour is not "elegant" ('reverse_at_signals' is just a workaround)."
22:06:11 <andythenorth> so wtf is supposed to happen?
22:06:20 <Eddi|zuHause> "reverse_at_signals" is for waiting too long at red signals
22:06:22 <andythenorth> one way signals only work telepathically?
22:06:23 <TrueBrain> okay, behaviour really is a bit wonky
22:06:37 <andythenorth> it's a bug eh TB?
22:06:38 <Eddi|zuHause> this is "reverses at end of line", which it should do
22:07:06 <TrueBrain> train on track, place one-way far in front of it, when it hits it, it IMMEDIATLY reverses, goes back to depot, won't come out of depot (no free path)
22:07:17 <TrueBrain> train on track, place one way DIRECTLY in front of it, train stops, waiting for path
22:07:36 <peter1138> andythenorth, well reverse is correct. Waiting ages maybe, maybe not.
22:07:40 <TrueBrain> reversing the signals unstucks it
22:08:00 <Eddi|zuHause> so it's a bug in path reservation?
22:08:34 <andythenorth> I've labelled it bug
22:08:52 <Eddi|zuHause> i think we once had a bigger discussion about whether back of a one-way signal should be considered "safe waiting location"
22:08:59 <peter1138> dbg: [misc] String too long for destination buffer
22:09:06 <peter1138> How do I get it to tell me what string?
22:09:28 <peter1138> Eddi|zuHause, no it's not.
22:10:00 <Eddi|zuHause> if it's not, it may cause stuck trains like that
22:10:23 <Eddi|zuHause> because it can't reserve a path it won't move, but because it won't move it can't reach the end of the line to reverse
22:10:34 <peter1138> andythenorth, where do I find an NRT newgrf?
22:10:34 <TrueBrain> wow, #6337 is a stupid bug :p
22:10:58 *** Wacko1976 has joined #openttd
22:11:31 <peter1138> snow/rainforest was broken ever since TGP
22:11:53 <andythenorth> and tropic map gen
22:11:56 <glx> <supermop_work> i am trying to get my company to buy an old citroen corrugated van <-- a type H (also know as TUB here) ?
22:12:10 <peter1138> more height levels just makes the problem more visible
22:12:18 <peter1138> i have some patches somewhere.. ;(
22:13:32 <andythenorth> whatever TGP thinks it's doing in the sub-tropic, it doesn't
22:13:39 <triolus> well, I think these newgrfs will be fun. thanks everyone. I'm gonna try to setup a server with them now =)
22:14:16 <peter1138> andythenorth, is it meant to have toolbar sprites?
22:14:25 <andythenorth> yes, there is one new one
22:14:34 <andythenorth> for light rail construction
22:15:00 <peter1138> Hmm, I have no trams at all.
22:15:23 <TrueBrain> holy moly, if #6230 is really the fix for the problem .. silly little patch :D
22:15:31 <andythenorth> peter1138: sprite 178 or so in openttdgui.png is the sprite
22:15:43 <peter1138> andythenorth, no, i mean hogs
22:17:43 <TrueBrain> the patch in #6211 feels weird ... it adds new functions, but n othing calls it?
22:18:40 <andythenorth> can always re-open later
22:18:41 <peter1138> Hmm, I need more than 4GB RAM in my VM :p
22:18:49 <andythenorth> lots of bugs to triage, let's not add more new ones
22:18:52 <andythenorth> well, except NRT :P
22:19:18 <peter1138> Usual issue of mouse warping not working too, so scrolling is bad.
22:19:46 <TrueBrain> owh, I get what he tried to do .. he only added the command so it could be shown on websites
22:20:12 <andythenorth> btw I get trams in tip of NRT fork, with Hog
22:20:47 <peter1138> I have trams in the vehicle list.
22:21:33 <Wolf01> Good, I fixed that 3 times already
22:21:52 <peter1138> Yeah, it's the pesky openttd.grf
22:22:42 <Eddi|zuHause> doesn't it rebuild openttd.grf automatically?
22:23:06 <LordAro> if grfcodec is available
22:23:40 <peter1138> It didn't realise it needed to.
22:23:45 <peter1138> Hmm, so, 5 sprites missing.
22:24:27 <andythenorth> TrueBrain: 6207 is 'working as intended' but I think it shouldn't be silent
22:24:38 <TrueBrain> so the bug is the silent part?
22:25:03 <andythenorth> do you want 400 'failed to renew' red boxes? o_O
22:25:11 <andythenorth> you / me / anyone /s
22:25:15 <Eddi|zuHause> making it non-silent is probably easier than rewriting autorenew
22:25:23 <andythenorth> it could go to news log
22:25:28 <TrueBrain> so on the known-bugs list?
22:25:43 <frosch123> TrueBrain: autorenew!=autoreplace
22:25:56 <Eddi|zuHause> also, this is autorenew, there's no real reason why it would need to fail
22:25:57 <frosch123> autoreplace works as intended, autorenew can be improved
22:26:26 <andythenorth> there's a related issue
22:26:49 <frosch123> i would keep the issue open
22:27:11 <frosch123> it's a corner case, but there is an obvious fix
22:27:18 <andythenorth> I've linked 6207 and 5776
22:27:27 <andythenorth> I think they need to be open
22:27:30 <frosch123> mark it as "good first issue" :p
22:27:31 <andythenorth> both have caught me out
22:27:43 <andythenorth> I did a whole newgrf with mixed-cargo articulated vehicles
22:27:47 <andythenorth> then found they don't work :P
22:27:50 <TrueBrain> frosch123: go for it :)
22:28:01 <TrueBrain> but please reiterate first what is left of the ticket, as it was non-obvious to me
22:28:12 <frosch123> only thing with the issue is that there are so many bollocks comments, so it is hard to understand :)
22:28:45 <andythenorth> we can delete some honestly
22:28:55 <TrueBrain> I did the topic and labels, but I would love a comment from you summarizing it :) Tnx frosch123!
22:29:16 <TrueBrain> I am very tempted to classify #6193 as a security bug
22:29:27 <TrueBrain> I have to look through the code first, but .. I forgot we did that :D
22:29:33 <peter1138> Hmm, it's the new version number that is apparently too long.
22:29:57 <andythenorth> TrueBrain: I wondered about 6193 :D
22:30:33 <TrueBrain> OpenTTD has too many folders to store savegames :P
22:30:41 <TrueBrain> very few games give this flexibility :)
22:30:46 <peter1138> "20180412--g6ac07902M"
22:30:59 <LordAro> peter1138: see open PR
22:31:42 <andythenorth> commits that aren't translations or just frosch :D
22:31:55 <andythenorth> 'just frosch' sounds bad :P didn't mean to
22:32:22 <peter1138> LordAro, that doesn't appear to address it being too long?
22:32:34 <peter1138> It's also missing my branch. I'm not on master.
22:32:36 <TrueBrain> andythenorth: #6189, that sounds like a bug to me; the patch is in another ticket. Your comment seems in the wrong issue?
22:32:52 <Wolf01> Wow 262 issues, 60 less(fewer?) than yesterday
22:32:59 <andythenorth> Wolf01: 100 less
22:33:20 <TrueBrain> yeah, reads to me that you flipped your responses :)
22:33:52 <TrueBrain> your comment confuses me more than the topic :D Lol
22:34:21 <andythenorth> as part of another patch
22:34:32 <TrueBrain> but I dont see why you suggest closing it, but owh no, leaving it open
22:34:36 <peter1138> Ah, cos I'm in the middle of a rebase, most likely.
22:35:04 <andythenorth> TrueBrain: file it under "andy was wrong"
22:35:12 <TrueBrain> no, I was trying to understand you :)
22:35:17 <TrueBrain> I assumed you had reasoning behind it :)
22:35:26 <andythenorth> sometimes it's like being a passenger watching :P
22:35:45 <andythenorth> we have accidentally driven 3298 away
22:35:46 <TrueBrain> so, I altered your comment than :)
22:35:58 <andythenorth> so eh, is his patch ticket dead or legit? I'm confused :P
22:37:14 <TrueBrain> its really nice: I think we should close the ticket, I closed the ticket, I left it open, IN A SINGLE SENTENCE :D
22:37:22 <Eddi|zuHause> on #6193, it should probably prevented to cd into anything that is none of the Readme section 4.1 paths
22:37:44 <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: the ticket is the place to leave these comments :)
22:37:56 <peter1138> He'd need a github account though.
22:38:14 <Eddi|zuHause> not quite there yet
22:38:29 <TrueBrain> what is the saying .. either put up or shut up?
22:39:40 <TrueBrain> lol @ 6177 .. "very bad" .. "required" .. tempted to close the issue just for that :D
22:41:48 <Wolf01> You could have replied "there are grfs for that"
22:42:01 <TrueBrain> please do add that, if that is the case :)
22:42:25 <peter1138> Hmm, so missing graphics. But there were no conflicts. What do I need to do :p
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22:43:43 <TrueBrain> why did the game get so many buttons .. omg ..
22:43:59 <Wolf01> I'm trying to add more!
22:44:43 <Wolf01> Mmmh, I really think I've lost the branch for the new game UI
22:45:01 <TrueBrain> I FOUND AN ISSUE WHICH andythenorth CAN MAKE A PULL REQUEST FOR! :D \o/ \o/
22:45:04 <TrueBrain> that makes me happy :)
22:45:06 <Wolf01> Stupid unpublished branch
22:45:21 <TrueBrain> in git, always push to your fork
22:45:29 <TrueBrain> even if you are not planning to make a pull request out of it
22:45:42 <TrueBrain> if you lost it recently, 'git reflog' can be your friend
22:45:44 <Wolf01> I don't plan to make a PR out of anything I do
22:45:45 <peter1138> Wolf01, oh... yes. It's opengfx actually missing graphics.
22:45:54 <peter1138> Have now installed the correct graphics.
22:46:06 <TrueBrain> reflog shows all your recent actions, and in front the hash to go back to how things were before that action
22:46:10 <TrueBrain> (or after that action?)
22:46:13 <TrueBrain> well, either way :P
22:46:59 <TrueBrain> (in git, nothing is really lost, unless the garbage collector was triggered)
22:49:03 <peter1138> No merging, no fixing intermediate stuff...
22:49:29 <peter1138> Now I need to read through it all and understand how to stage it.
22:50:37 <Eddi|zuHause> split into hunks and then combine hunks as you go?
22:50:43 <TrueBrain> ugh, hotkeys ... what to do with them ...
22:50:57 <andythenorth> make a new issue listing all hotkey ponies?
22:51:00 <peter1138> What's up with hotkeys?
22:51:02 <andythenorth> get LordAro to do it?
22:51:04 <andythenorth> peter1138: 'moar'
22:51:15 <TrueBrain> basically, it should be: hotkeys need a revamp
22:52:06 <andythenorth> probably easily misunderstood :P
22:52:07 <Eddi|zuHause> ... and a GUI for configuring them
22:52:16 <andythenorth> it's my text editor
22:52:31 <Eddi|zuHause> that's far outside any reasonable definition of GUI :p
22:53:06 <TrueBrain> hotkeys for volume .. that is just too silly
22:53:19 <TrueBrain> that is much more in line :)
22:53:32 <andythenorth> also open to misunderstanding
22:53:35 <andythenorth> wilful or otherwise
22:54:58 <andythenorth> I reckon it's hard to get <250
22:57:13 <Eddi|zuHause> not without starting to actually solve any problems :p
22:57:53 <peter1138> Let me come up with plan to fix it, in the 2 seconds it'll take you to close it.
22:58:01 <TrueBrain> OpenTTD is in 32bpp by default these days? (for Windows)
22:58:14 <andythenorth> peter1138: I am slow typing today
22:58:16 <peter1138> andythenorth, not, TMWFTLB, imho it just should be random.
22:58:28 <andythenorth> how do you show layout for random?
22:58:45 <andythenorth> oh you mean "you don't"
23:00:32 <peter1138> RoadNoLevelCrossing() < empty comment
23:00:33 *** Stimrol has joined #openttd
23:03:00 <peter1138> What does that function do?
23:04:05 <frosch123> TrueBrain: the competitive people have various hotkey stuff in their fork
23:04:43 <TrueBrain> that is more for your OS :)
23:04:49 <andythenorth> peter1138: is that the one that forbids level crossings?
23:04:53 <frosch123> TrueBrain: yes, 32bpp is default for win, since win8 or so
23:05:01 <peter1138> Yeah, figured it out.
23:05:02 <TrueBrain> frosch123: cool; closes ticket :)
23:05:26 <frosch123> TrueBrain: nah, not volume, but they have more weird keys and more hotkeys for various building tools
23:05:49 <TrueBrain> that is it, we are done
23:06:06 <andythenorth> now pick top 100, put em in a project
23:06:57 <andythenorth> it makes it all a bit project-managed though eh?
23:07:14 <andythenorth> "no this is what management wants you working on, thanks bai"
23:08:04 <Wolf01> Aaaaaand... 'night... I won't be here for the entire weekend (lego stuff) :P
23:08:16 <Eddi|zuHause> i wish i had a GitHub account right now to open a ticket and make TrueBrain happy again :/
23:08:25 <andythenorth> 255 is a nice number too
23:08:29 <TrueBrain> please, don't create lies Eddi|zuHause
23:08:58 <Eddi|zuHause> i thought that is the only thing the internet is good at, create and spread lies?
23:09:37 <TrueBrain> andythenorth: toss a coin please
23:09:51 <TrueBrain> shit, I had to think about heads or tails before I asked
23:10:17 <TrueBrain> okay, ticket stays open :)
23:10:42 <TrueBrain> no, it is not; 5596 is silly
23:10:42 <Eddi|zuHause> if you can't think of heads or tails, just throw twice and pick same or different :p
23:11:49 <TrueBrain> I have to learn to read
23:12:05 <andythenorth> I am +1 to closing that
23:12:16 <andythenorth> shell doesn't report success, only error
23:12:19 <Eddi|zuHause> low hamming distance, could have happened to anyone :p
23:12:36 <TrueBrain> shell is a very bad example for the audiance, but that was not my reasoning :D
23:12:38 <TrueBrain> but closed it already :)
23:13:37 <TrueBrain> wow, 5934 is tricky
23:14:35 <TrueBrain> problem is a bit, the request seems valid, and then the topic sinks in a technical talk about a single solution
23:14:39 <TrueBrain> that confuses me :D
23:14:57 <andythenorth> not winnable in current form
23:15:05 <andythenorth> nobody's going to pull that and get it done
23:18:12 <TrueBrain> quiet a few fixes are ready to be applied; just need to be dusted off :)
23:18:48 <TrueBrain> includes a fix and everything
23:19:15 <andythenorth> I tested most of 3298's groups fixes
23:19:20 <andythenorth> not sure if I got them all
23:20:00 <TrueBrain> andythenorth: #5958 .. you are good at those OSX shit
23:20:33 <andythenorth> what does it all mean? :o
23:23:57 <TrueBrain> CLOSE IT andythenorth! JUST DO IT! :P
23:24:23 <andythenorth> I don't understand it
23:24:37 <TrueBrain> trackpad doesnt work, stopped reading after that :P
23:24:57 <andythenorth> I think pinch is supposed to work even when mousewheel scrolls
23:27:28 <andythenorth> keep it, rename it 'town trolls landscape'
23:27:41 <andythenorth> trolling AI needed :P
23:28:42 <TrueBrain> okay, that was weird ... my firealarm went off, but none of the sensors detected an issue
23:28:52 <TrueBrain> they cycled for a few times, and went quiet
23:29:12 <andythenorth> magnetic bees nearby?
23:31:29 <andythenorth> plate tectonics GS idea
23:31:51 <andythenorth> GS moves the island 16 tiles every year
23:32:00 <andythenorth> destroying your stuff
23:38:12 <TrueBrain> nice work on issues today andythenorth :)
23:38:41 *** andythenorth has left #openttd
23:43:44 <triolus> I got my server up and running at eagle.triolus.com:3979 if anyone wants to join
continue to next day ⏵
