IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2018-04-12
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00:02:02 <TrueBrain> we still need a way for people to upload crash-files .. auto-upload on crash? :D
00:02:21 <TrueBrain> (closed a crash-report without any files ...)
00:02:47 <andythenorth> 359 is a good place to stop
00:02:52 <peter1138> Should I eat or go shower and then sleep?
00:03:15 <TrueBrain> peter1138: I will see if I can email this user in question; as he wouldnt know you asked these questions :D
00:03:36 <peter1138> I did wonder about that, but I figured it was better to respond than not to.
00:04:25 <peter1138> "The reduced collisions (openttd-hash175.diff) don't change YAPF's performance in a significant way; YAPF is still as slow as ever."
00:04:36 <peter1138> Hmm, yeah, that doesn't convince me to apply the patch :p
00:04:53 <LordAro> i mean, i guess less collisions is good...
00:05:01 <LordAro> but if it doesn't actually help...
00:05:06 <TrueBrain> although that has function really is silly ... yeah
00:05:30 <peter1138> I wonder if it helps on one of the really big games.
00:05:32 <TrueBrain> still really tempted to apply the patch
00:05:37 <peter1138> 18 ships isn't many.
00:05:46 <LordAro> i can't see it hurting
00:05:55 <TrueBrain> and he used a proper hash
00:05:57 <TrueBrain> he did his research
00:06:57 <TrueBrain> not sure I believe his comments in the patch itself
00:08:22 <TrueBrain> either way, good night!
00:08:25 <TrueBrain> and tnx andythenorth :)
00:08:38 <LordAro> peter1138: i wonder about addressing the reporter directly, when it is a flyspray issue
00:08:51 <peter1138> I think I lost my semi-fix for boat pathfinding :(
00:09:14 <peter1138> Or! I may have posted to the bug tracker.
00:10:20 <peter1138> I didn't like the randomness bit though :(
00:10:51 <peter1138> However, good idea to turn it into a fix branch
00:16:43 <Eddi|zuHause> hm, i'm a tiny bit lost on thimbleweed park right now...
00:18:51 <andythenorth> @calc 36 / (156 + 36)
00:18:51 <DorpsGek> andythenorth: 0.1875
00:41:30 <peter1138> Turns out I had at some point made a backup...
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08:16:14 <__ln__> good morningberg to you as well
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08:39:49 <andythenorth> how well does your 47 scale down? :P
08:40:03 <andythenorth> I need a 57-ish type train
08:45:58 <Pikka> hmm.. not fantastically. :P
08:47:53 <Pikka> actually, I think I drew one for olde 10cc, let me look
08:48:34 <andythenorth> I need a 57, 89, 68 and 88
08:49:45 <Pikka> ack, I only did a 37, 66 and 86 :)
08:50:01 <andythenorth> I redrew your 37 already :)
08:50:39 <andythenorth> I need an APT-thing, a pendolino and a velar thing too :)
08:51:55 <andythenorth> 68 with a pantograph innit
08:52:13 <andythenorth> seems I need a 70 as well
08:53:07 <andythenorth> but diesels are easy to draw
08:53:13 <andythenorth> I need some steam engines too
08:53:17 <DorpsGek> andythenorth: danmack was last seen in #openttd 1 year, 50 weeks, 3 days, 14 hours, 18 minutes, and 12 seconds ago: <DanMacK> @seen andythenorth
08:53:25 <andythenorth> steam engines are the one thing I can't draw :P
08:53:54 <andythenorth> I have failed to draw any, but Dan does 10 before lunchtime
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11:06:32 <andythenorth> is github too big too fail? o_O
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11:30:18 <SpComb> but why would github fail, they have so many users!
11:38:07 <andythenorth> I wonder how they could fail, other than (1) acquisition (2) catastrophic infra fail
11:39:36 <SpComb> well, obviously by failing to monetize their user base
11:40:09 <SpComb> I don't actually know if github is profitable, but investor money is not for serving the public good
11:42:03 <andythenorth> I can't see projects like Bootstrap wanting to lose their 16k closed issues
11:43:02 <andythenorth> kubernetes is there too, and ansible
11:43:07 <SpComb> github was over 66m$ in the negative in 2016
11:47:18 <andythenorth> I guess my question is really 'why are people scared about openttd code being on github'
11:49:16 <andythenorth> the failure modes seem predictable and defensible
12:02:32 <SpComb> relying on free services is always a bit questionable, I'm assuming openttd doesn't pay github anything
12:20:10 <peter1138> Which people are scared?
12:25:33 <andythenorth> I'm more anticipating the question for writing docs
12:26:03 <andythenorth> it's the tickets that could just disappear
12:26:36 <andythenorth> I just would bet against that actually happening
12:26:51 <peter1138> The link says that is possible.
12:27:08 <peter1138> (Possible to back up)
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12:30:17 <LordAro> seems reasonable to back it up, but the source itself is perfectly safe
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12:50:32 <peter1138> Yes, far safer than SVN.
13:17:41 <andythenorth> 51 done, 123 to do
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13:35:19 <andythenorth> if it gets done I'll have to make an NRT Road Hog
13:35:27 <andythenorth> and I'm painting trains right now so eh :P
13:35:31 <peter1138> I think I'm free tonight...
13:36:08 <andythenorth> Hogs it is then :P
14:12:59 <andythenorth> 3 trains per hour
14:13:15 <andythenorth> hmm 15 days non-stop
14:13:31 <DorpsGek> andythenorth: 1.66666666667
14:13:53 <andythenorth> Pikka: what hoppers? o-O
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14:28:03 <peter1138> Hmm, do we need one-click crash report uploading?
14:29:53 <andythenorth> didn't we have it once?
14:29:57 <andythenorth> and it got removed?
14:33:40 <Eddi|zuHause> iirc it got removed just because we didn't have the backend infrastructure for it
14:34:37 <Eddi|zuHause> if we decide to add it back in, we also need someone who weeds through them, sorts them into duplicates, and stuff
14:35:32 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: NoCrash?
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15:50:22 <peter1138> Hmm, I don't remember having that.
15:52:26 <peter1138> Infrastructure sharing, eh?
15:52:43 <peter1138> I remember subsidiaries too.
15:52:58 <peter1138> Be nice to have them.
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17:02:26 <andythenorth> ^ is that just because 1.8.0 bumped savegame version?
17:02:37 <andythenorth> so NRT fork now looks 'older' and therefore is loaded?
17:06:31 <Eddi|zuHause> that should usually result in "incompatible" error
17:06:58 <Eddi|zuHause> but i don't know what you're doing
17:07:36 <Eddi|zuHause> that depends on what you change
17:08:01 <Eddi|zuHause> it might not be able to detect differences in map layout, and silently fail/do weird things
17:08:55 <andythenorth> I have NFI how a fork is supposed to be able to modify the saveload code in trunk eh?
17:09:11 <andythenorth> is there some executable code in the savegame that is run on load?
17:09:23 <Eddi|zuHause> no, you should not worry about it
17:09:48 <andythenorth> literally program A is supposed to modify program B somehow? o_O
17:10:39 <Alberth> it's not compatible, so don't try to load saves of game A into game B
17:11:52 <Eddi|zuHause> once i suggested to use "minor savegame version != 0" for patchpacks
17:12:02 <Eddi|zuHause> but that idea was not well received
17:12:40 <andythenorth> do we get much failure demand from players loading patchpack saves into trunk?
17:12:54 <Alberth> not that I am aware of
17:13:08 <Alberth> people generally only play the patchpack, as it has more features
17:14:13 <Eddi|zuHause> well, like i said, usually it fails directly on load, but if it seems to work, people will then stumble over undebuggable errors later on
17:15:34 <Eddi|zuHause> on a separate note, we might need a big red warning message for people trying to load a crash.sav file
17:21:44 <Eddi|zuHause> i imagine something like this: on loading a crash.sav, the user is prompted with a message that this is an emergency save file, which may contain corrupted data and it is advised to play from an earlier autosave instead
17:23:03 <Eddi|zuHause> on loading a "secondary" savegame, i.e. a manual savegame made with the "loaded crash.sav" flag active, it shows the smae message, but with an option to disable this warning, and re-enable crash dump/save generation again
17:23:15 <Eddi|zuHause> both these are logged in the game log
17:27:21 <Deep3D> Hello, is a Raspberry Pi OK for setting up a OpenTTD server for 2-3 users with a large map?
17:27:36 <supermop_work> what is 'large'
17:28:12 <Eddi|zuHause> Deep3D: OpenTTD is pretty CPU heavy, so i'd tend towards "no" for the "large" part
17:28:37 <Deep3D> Ok, not large as 4000x4000. Maybe 1024x1024?
17:29:24 <Eddi|zuHause> it depends heavily on your play style, number of trains, industries, whatever
17:29:52 <Eddi|zuHause> it may work at first and then slow down over time
17:30:09 <Eddi|zuHause> as you build more stuff and more cargo gets transported
17:30:25 <Deep3D> I understand, then Ill prob not use pi :)
17:31:40 <Eddi|zuHause> in any case, it's probably the safest if the slowest computer is the server
17:32:38 <Eddi|zuHause> if the server is slow, it will just make the game run slower. if one of the clients is slow, it will get kicked from the game and unable to play
17:36:37 <andythenorth> BAD FEATURE: flashing rear light on trains, with sprite layer
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17:39:00 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: bonus points for getting the wheel to stand upright again after it fell over?
17:39:14 <andythenorth> some kind of linear actuator?
17:39:18 <andythenorth> that pushes it up?
17:39:29 <andythenorth> or another moving mass ?
17:40:52 <Eddi|zuHause> well, it's essentially a "reaction wheel", so with enough power and picking the right spin direction, it should be able to stand up
17:41:28 <andythenorth> is 2 axes of rotation enough?
17:41:36 <andythenorth> I suppose rotating one of the axes moves the other
17:41:44 <andythenorth> so it's pretty variable
17:42:02 * andythenorth totally doesn't understand sprite layers
17:42:08 <andythenorth> time for nml docs
17:42:41 <Eddi|zuHause> well, typically you'd have reaction wheels in a 3d-gyroscope-formation, to freely position the spin direction
17:43:05 <Eddi|zuHause> but if the wheel is laying flat, you can assume one direction is already known
17:43:50 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: you should build one and try it :)
17:43:50 <Eddi|zuHause> the second direction would then be used to choose the lowest point of the wheel, to pick the angle that is easiest to overcome
17:44:06 <Eddi|zuHause> and the 3rd direction is then used to put the force in to stand up
17:44:50 <andythenorth> rise of the machines :P
17:45:38 <Eddi|zuHause> there's another key component here, applying the force as close to the pivot point as possible
17:46:24 <andythenorth> I suspect it might just slide, and not rock over
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17:46:40 <andythenorth> if the edges of the wheel were high-friction it would likely work
17:46:48 <andythenorth> a band of rubber
17:46:50 <Eddi|zuHause> so that might mean you optimally have 5 degrees of freedom
17:47:22 <andythenorth> presumably if there was a 3rd moving mass, one could lean the monowheel in curves? o_O
17:47:25 <Eddi|zuHause> possibly 4 suffices?
17:48:40 <supermop_work> it should have contrarotating flywheels
17:48:56 <Eddi|zuHause> well, "leaning" is how most real-world monowheels turn
17:48:59 <supermop_work> and vary the ratio of spin to steer
17:49:19 <Eddi|zuHause> where the movable mass is the person sitting in them
17:49:39 <supermop_work> so that it can make faster/finer adjustments and always have wheels spinning, to prevent hamster wheeling
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18:56:58 <Wolf01> TB: did you see the link I posted this morning?
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19:14:58 <TrueBrain> Wolf01: highlighting doesnt work if you dont use my name :)
19:15:29 <Wolf01> I don't want to highlight you, bad things happened (usually to Xeryus) :P
19:16:10 <andythenorth> so I want to do something about all the issues that are wanted
19:16:13 <andythenorth> but never happening
19:16:18 <andythenorth> specifically a lot of them are newgrf
19:16:38 <TrueBrain> what do you have in mind?
19:16:57 <andythenorth> I have been looking how Bootstrap handles issues
19:17:02 <andythenorth> mdo is pretty good, short but fair
19:18:30 <andythenorth> they only have 330 open issues
19:18:39 <andythenorth> and they are one of the biggest Github projects
19:18:47 <Wolf01> HA! -> "Please ask first before embarking on any significant pull request (e.g. implementing features, refactoring code, porting to a different language), otherwise you risk spending a lot of time working on something that the project's developers might not want to merge into the project."
19:19:07 <andythenorth> they have 16k close issues
19:19:13 <TrueBrain> all in the same idea: not on the roadmap, in what-ever wording
19:19:20 <andythenorth> maybe we are suddenly one of the biggest Github projects :P
19:19:30 <Wolf01> We don't even have a roadmap!
19:19:38 <Wolf01> Also, dinner, long, BBL
19:19:46 <TrueBrain> Wolf01: yeah, that annoyed me; but I lacked other wording
19:19:56 <TrueBrain> but I saw a few good examples of how other projects deal with it
19:20:05 <TrueBrain> stuff like: we dont see this happening in the short future
19:20:19 <andythenorth> 'contrary to goals'
19:20:21 <TrueBrain> and: tnx for the awesome idea, but this won't be part of the core
19:20:26 <andythenorth> 'not a current priority'
19:20:38 <TrueBrain> basically, keep what fits in the next milestone
19:20:45 <andythenorth> Bootstrap did really well at insisting on being a framework
19:20:54 <andythenorth> I am a massive fan of their work
19:21:05 <andythenorth> most people only see the button style, and go 'meh bootstrap'
19:21:07 <andythenorth> but they are fools
19:21:37 <andythenorth> also the idea of complete docs, compiled with the project
19:21:44 <andythenorth> and no fricking sphinx :P
19:21:50 <andythenorth> I stole that for newgrf
19:25:37 <andythenorth> can we delete some of the labels?
19:25:47 <TrueBrain> but maybe you want to say which :D
19:25:49 <andythenorth> NewCargos isn't winning us much
19:26:00 <TrueBrain> all the uncoloured ones I dislike
19:26:16 <andythenorth> it's just too many
19:26:24 <andythenorth> too many = more labelled wrong
19:26:25 <TrueBrain> many is not an issue if they are helpful
19:26:39 <TrueBrain> so lets not remove them for removing them
19:26:42 <andythenorth> it is when trying to apply them
19:26:44 <TrueBrain> that is just creating work :D
19:26:55 <TrueBrain> I would suggest to never apply the non-coloured ones :D
19:27:17 <TrueBrain> but keeping up with incoming bugs is easier than getting ride of the 359 :D
19:27:29 <TrueBrain> none use Trams anymore
19:27:35 <TrueBrain> so yeah, remove it if it bothers you
19:27:42 <andythenorth> can I just break some eggs?
19:27:47 <TrueBrain> you OCD-high-person :)
19:27:51 <TrueBrain> depends on the eggs :)
19:28:05 <andythenorth> we have 2 fricking pages of labels
19:28:18 <andythenorth> one of them is "Squirrel"
19:28:19 <TrueBrain> yes;seriously, dont worry about the labels
19:28:23 <andythenorth> but we also have "Script"
19:28:30 <TrueBrain> lets first deal with what is important .. 359 bug tickets
19:28:41 <andythenorth> I have no way of clustering them though :P
19:28:42 <TrueBrain> if you have your open tickets under control
19:28:45 <TrueBrain> it is easier to categorize them
19:28:55 <andythenorth> you can see I gave up with Flyspray categories as they were mostly crap :)
19:28:57 <TrueBrain> just randomly removing labels is not really helping :)
19:29:05 <TrueBrain> yeah ... so you added in the topic ....
19:29:09 <TrueBrain> that really .. changed stuff?!
19:29:20 <andythenorth> it was fliterable by search
19:29:34 <TrueBrain> also what labels are good for btw :)
19:29:35 <andythenorth> I didn't want to break the carefully applied category system
19:29:46 <andythenorth> someone obviously designed it for a reason
19:29:50 <TrueBrain> so for today I want to crawl through crash reports
19:30:02 <TrueBrain> 48 when I search for crash
19:31:17 <andythenorth> hmm this needs someone !andythenorth
19:31:26 <andythenorth> 'crash' just makes me go 'wah'
19:31:49 <frosch123> do we care about new-line at end-of-file?
19:31:52 <TrueBrain> so give me an hour to look them through :) You maybe can look at NewGRF stuff?
19:31:55 <TrueBrain> frosch123: please, always do
19:31:58 <TrueBrain> please please please
19:32:03 <TrueBrain> any sane editor fixes it for you
19:32:14 <frosch123> TrueBrain: tell glx :p
19:32:20 <TrueBrain> frosch123: if you add a line if there is no end-of-line, you have 2 changed lines
19:32:22 <TrueBrain> which is .... WEIRD
19:32:25 <andythenorth> I am looking at OS X crashes
19:32:49 <frosch123> TrueBrain: so, should commit-checker check that?
19:32:52 <TrueBrain> basically the whole world switched to: ADD NEWLINE! (file-bytes[-1] == '\n')
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19:36:09 <TrueBrain> 7 year old bug ticket ... close :D
19:36:46 <TrueBrain> andythenorth: I agree with your OSX statement; just we also need to be sure we are compatible with n-2 in that case :D
19:37:12 <andythenorth> I am generally n-1 because n is usually a shitshow of bugs
19:37:31 <andythenorth> anyway I close that one
19:37:43 <TrueBrain> I was about to say :P
19:39:45 <TrueBrain> found a 5 year old LordAro patch :P
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19:40:15 <TrueBrain> tnx Deep3D, everything was way too flat for me taste
19:42:41 <TrueBrain> "suggest closing it" *presses close button*
19:43:15 <TrueBrain> I keep reading the same tickets ... going to rename the 'bug' label too, so I know which tickets still needs looking at ..
19:45:50 <andythenorth> yeah that was bugging me
19:46:08 <andythenorth> I search by different label and get very overlapping results
19:47:01 <TrueBrain> so any ticket with "from Flyspray" label of some form/kind
19:47:05 <TrueBrain> still needs attention :)
19:58:46 <andythenorth> Oh I should put Mac OS version
20:00:28 <andythenorth> no idea if that patch is insane
20:00:38 <andythenorth> if it's just dropping lots of game logic, then yeah, it could be faster :P
20:00:57 <TrueBrain> the patch feels a bit wonky .. but that is for someone to find out :)
20:01:05 <TrueBrain> at least it highlight they are on the right track
20:04:04 <Rubidium> technically what it does not drawing all the game ticks, so yeah... obviously it's faster... but if you use -v null it's even faster
20:04:23 <Rubidium> it doesn't really make the game itself faster
20:04:28 <TrueBrain> yeah, that is not the idea of Fast Forward :D
20:04:44 <TrueBrain> so comment that on GitHub please :)
20:04:58 <Rubidium> so fast forwarding a pretty filled map won't get a big improvement
20:05:04 <TrueBrain> andythenorth: I dont think so .. hence the 'triage'
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20:15:54 <TrueBrain> lot of crashes need triage ..
20:19:31 <TrueBrain> lot of Korean users btw
20:22:17 <frosch123> i had to install a hexeditor to create the testcase
20:22:28 <frosch123> i did not figure out how to do it with a regualr editor :p
20:22:30 <andythenorth> 351 issues open :P
20:22:45 <TrueBrain> glx is just special :D
20:25:59 <TrueBrain> dunno, sent you a poke via GitHub :P
20:26:48 <TrueBrain> andythenorth: okay, done with everything with 'crash' in it
20:26:54 <TrueBrain> 19 triage tickets now
20:32:09 <TrueBrain> good thing about no notifications for closing tickets to the owners ... less complaining :P
20:32:18 <peter1138> be nice if that opengl blitter was working
20:32:26 <peter1138> with almost free palette animation
20:32:30 <TrueBrain> didnt you say that ... 10 years ago?!
20:33:32 <TrueBrain> andythenorth: is #6661 fixable at all?
20:33:40 <TrueBrain> or is it fixed in other grfs?
20:36:25 <TrueBrain> frosch123 / LordAro: is #6649 a good idea?
20:36:47 <TrueBrain> (and does it work on our current targets? Dunno what version it needs etc)
20:38:56 <frosch123> TrueBrain: the goal is welcome, but it is only for after the farm is done, and also the patches do not comply to coding style
20:39:09 <TrueBrain> yeah, so compilers need an update
20:40:22 <LordAro> although compilers don't need updating any further
20:40:54 <frosch123> also i would use c++11 loop style instead of replacing Length() with size()
20:40:57 <TrueBrain> Docker farm is not done yet LordAro :)
20:41:00 <TrueBrain> no OSX and Windows :)
20:41:18 <LordAro> TrueBrain: i didn't say it was done ;)
20:41:19 <TrueBrain> frosch123: maybe you could write something up on the wiki about c++11 coding style etc?
20:41:32 <TrueBrain> LordAro: no, but you made it more confusing :)
20:42:46 <frosch123> yes, but other stuff first :)
20:43:28 <TrueBrain> pushed new commiter-checker to CI
20:43:30 <LordAro> gah, i created a branch named "origin/master"
20:44:57 <peter1138> Re #559, when are we adding SSL? ;p
20:45:36 <TrueBrain> that issue is more an issue than I would like to admit
20:45:42 <TrueBrain> do we md5 passwords?
20:46:57 <TrueBrain> okay, this really needs attention
20:47:21 <peter1138> There is password hashing. But it's salted MD5 which is not really very good these days.
20:47:43 <TrueBrain> frosch123: your change works good; glx' patch is now denied :)
20:47:51 <peter1138> Even so, without a secure transport layer, it's sniffable.
20:47:55 <TrueBrain> I see passwords over the wire as plain text?
20:48:02 <peter1138> Over the wire, yes.
20:48:13 <peter1138> If you hash it client side, then you need it unhashed on the server.
20:48:14 <TrueBrain> euh .. TLS is not a requirement to keep passwords safe
20:48:26 <TrueBrain> there are plenty of solutions which solve that, fully secure
20:48:40 <TrueBrain> so I doubt adding TLS is a good solution for us currently
20:48:42 <peter1138> It pretty much is. All the digest schemes require the password to be in plaintext on the server side.
20:49:02 <TrueBrain> we control the server and client code of the network
20:49:35 <LordAro> sounds like TMWFTLB to me
20:49:41 <TrueBrain> andythenorth: you missed a line Rubidium said a bit later, which also might be relevant
20:49:49 <TrueBrain> LordAro: which part?
20:49:53 <TrueBrain> LordAro: bit of a random comment :D
20:50:05 <LordAro> those who want their ottd company passwords to be "secure" need to reevaluate their priorities
20:50:06 <TrueBrain> like you burst in a room and yell: TMWFTLB :D
20:50:15 <TrueBrain> LordAro: but there you are wrong; very wrong even
20:50:21 <TrueBrain> people dont understand this part of the IT world
20:50:27 <peter1138> We could remove the company password hashing, and then we'd be able to support secure passwords. Either or.
20:50:31 <TrueBrain> they simply "assume they can fill in their google password"
20:50:54 <TrueBrain> LordAro: in these modern days, you are kinda obligated to protect users from this sillyness
20:51:00 <TrueBrain> especially as it goes over the wire
20:51:23 <LordAro> true, i hadn't considered that
20:51:32 <TrueBrain> it really is really bad we still do that
20:51:40 <peter1138> Didn't we once have thoughts about implementing a centralised authentication system. User logs in to website, tokens authenticate user to server. etc.
20:51:56 <peter1138> The thought didn't get very far because centralised.
20:52:15 <LordAro> mm, any solution needs to work in the event all of ottd.org disappears
20:52:40 <peter1138> Anyway, OpenSSL isn't *too* hard.
20:53:02 <peter1138> Not that I'm volunteering of course :D
20:53:03 <LordAro> extra dependency though
20:53:14 <TrueBrain> owh, I was wrongly informed .. I should look in sources myself ffs
20:53:18 <TrueBrain> passwords are not sent plaintext
20:53:22 <TrueBrain> so it is a bit less terrible
20:53:53 <TrueBrain> they are even salted, so no rainbows .. possibly unicorns
20:54:53 <TrueBrain> adding TLS to solve this issue is bringing a gun to a pillow fight. Adding TLS might be a nice gimmic, but lets please not overdo solutions
20:55:49 <TrueBrain> wow, there is more thought in this hash than I expeted
20:56:15 <TrueBrain> kudos to Rubidium :)
20:56:35 <TrueBrain> wait, no, he just moved the code
20:57:30 <peter1138> Passwords are hashed client side.
20:57:50 <peter1138> This means it's still snoopable, but at least it's not going to be somebody's clear text google password.
20:58:24 <peter1138> Hmm, but there is _password_game_seed
20:58:54 <TrueBrain> okay, that reduces priority of that part drasticly
20:59:35 <peter1138> Hmm, the seed is the map generation seed, so that part is fixed.
20:59:43 *** ToBeFree has joined #openttd
21:00:18 <peter1138> That means you can snoop the hashed password, and use it to join the current server + map combo.
21:00:33 <TrueBrain> yes; that is not an issue
21:00:47 <TrueBrain> if you want to solve that, simply add a replay-id
21:00:49 <peter1138> Well, just map I suppose, if two servers happened to be running the same game.
21:01:25 <TrueBrain> peter1138: serverids are unique
21:01:35 <TrueBrain> well, advertised servers
21:01:43 <TrueBrain> what is the value for LAN servers .. hmm
21:01:49 <peter1138> Ah, network_id as well. so yes, current server + map combo.
21:01:50 <TrueBrain> anyway, we are not protecting against replay
21:01:57 <TrueBrain> we want to keep the password safe
21:02:20 <frosch123> at some point we stored the default password as plaintext in openttd.cfg
21:02:25 <frosch123> not sure whether that is still the case
21:02:41 <peter1138> still, salted md5 is not very secure ;)
21:02:44 <TrueBrain> well, 599 is about storing the passwords on save etc
21:02:49 <peter1138> but yeah, better than md5.
21:02:59 <TrueBrain> peter1138: currently I see no attack vector
21:03:03 <TrueBrain> I will check at work, but ..
21:03:12 <TrueBrain> bruteforce is the only way
21:03:33 <TrueBrain> frosch123: so if we solve 599, we can also fix that, if that is still the case :D
21:03:40 <TrueBrain> but storing passwords needs a bit more love
21:04:32 <frosch123> anyway, is it rude to force-push to branches in PR? it seems to delete all the commented code from the PR
21:04:38 <glx> I like the time it takes to check a PR not touching the source code ;)
21:04:44 <peter1138> TrueBrain, MD5 bruteforcing is easy these days, that's the thing.
21:04:52 <TrueBrain> frosch123: that is why I like squashing! :P
21:05:10 <glx> and MSVC is not even in the check loop :)
21:05:36 <peter1138> GPUs can do billions of MD5 hashes every second.
21:05:58 <peter1138> But yeah, it's not plaintext, so not urgently a problem.
21:06:30 <glx> and it's just a password without any other info
21:06:33 <peter1138> Would be nice to switch to bcrypt or something if we do start saving them.
21:07:53 <frosch123> TrueBrain: with the requirement "must be up-to-date" that does not help either
21:08:11 <frosch123> i was wondering whether one can attach a different branch to the same pr
21:08:23 <LordAro> frosch123: not too rude, really
21:08:43 <glx> I just used the easy way for my PR, added a commit
21:08:43 <TrueBrain> glx: it rarely is "just a password"
21:08:46 <LordAro> "must be up to date" is a bit of a silly rule - if it won't merge, GH will tell you
21:09:18 <TrueBrain> its not silly from a CI point-of-view
21:09:25 <TrueBrain> this somewhat guarantees master is always correct
21:09:28 <glx> TrueBrain: I mean in openttd case, nothing else is stored in relation to the player
21:09:38 <LordAro> TrueBrain: i don't follow
21:09:38 <TrueBrain> if you let that go a bit, you don't need it; squash and rebase (both merge methods) put it on top anyway
21:09:51 <TrueBrain> glx: it can be enough to login to someones gmail, sadly
21:10:18 <TrueBrain> LordAro: currently, your patch needs to be on top of the branch
21:10:26 <TrueBrain> if you merge that, master works
21:10:32 <TrueBrain> as .. that was already validated
21:10:46 <TrueBrain> if you allow PRs that are not up-to-date, but mergable
21:10:55 <LordAro> in what situations would a branch that isn't "on top" result in broken stuff?
21:11:11 <TrueBrain> you make a PR where you remove a global
21:11:18 <TrueBrain> I make a PR where I make a new use of that same global
21:11:25 <TrueBrain> just not when merged
21:11:29 <TrueBrain> this ia very common
21:11:31 <Eddi|zuHause> md5 is not a cryptographically safe operation
21:11:46 <Eddi|zuHause> should not use anything below sha256
21:11:56 <TrueBrain> LordAro: check projects that allow non-up-to-date
21:12:00 <TrueBrain> every N commits master breaks
21:12:07 <glx> hmm where can I see what is wrong in the commit checker ?
21:12:09 <TrueBrain> but it does happen more often than you would expect
21:12:24 <TrueBrain> then the line above what fails
21:12:29 <TrueBrain> (so not the 'wait', but the 'log')
21:13:09 <TrueBrain> glx: frosch123 made his scripts that it doesnt check the full result, but every commit on its own
21:13:15 <TrueBrain> (he assumes you will be rebasing)
21:13:22 <TrueBrain> so in your case, your first commit still doesnt have that newline
21:13:34 <TrueBrain> we are a bit split between methods of working with GitHub currently :D
21:13:36 <glx> yes but it's fixed by the next one
21:13:48 <TrueBrain> yes; like I just said, the checker checks every commit
21:13:52 <TrueBrain> not the collection of the commits
21:14:14 <TrueBrain> if you assume a PR is going to be rebased, that is a proper assumption
21:14:21 <TrueBrain> if you assume a PR is going to be squashed, it is not
21:14:31 <TrueBrain> no way of knowing beforehand
21:14:54 <frosch123> can we report different check states to GH? "good for rebase" and "good for squash"?
21:14:55 <TrueBrain> or we must allow chains of which a few break master, but not the final result :)
21:15:28 <TrueBrain> not in a fail-proof way
21:15:34 <TrueBrain> you cannot disable one of the two methods
21:15:47 <TrueBrain> the status simply says: fail, error, success, pending
21:16:11 <frosch123> jenkins uses to have "unstable" as third result
21:16:30 <TrueBrain> we talk about GitHub here :)
21:16:42 <TrueBrain> I can make Jenkins do what ever the fuck I want :P
21:16:50 <TrueBrain> it is GitHub that locks down workflows :(
21:17:11 <TrueBrain> (it is why projects work with bots; because they want their own workflow :D)
21:17:39 <TrueBrain> as we can make Jenkins leave behind labels
21:18:08 <TrueBrain> so in theory we can make something like: CI kicks in, leaves label: squashable / FFable
21:18:16 <TrueBrain> if PR is approved, bot automerges and pushes to master
21:19:02 <TrueBrain> but I really wonder if force pushing is something that works long-term on github :(
21:20:13 <frosch123> we reserved a gitlab account :)
21:20:31 <TrueBrain> different name, different issues; but issues you will have :)
21:21:09 <TrueBrain> frosch123: but for a short-term solution: why not validate the diff based on the total work
21:21:17 <TrueBrain> and messages per commit
21:21:27 <TrueBrain> does it matter if a few commits on master don't validate?
21:21:35 <TrueBrain> we also don't check CI on them if they are pushed in a single push
21:21:40 <TrueBrain> (so they might fail building)
21:21:52 <andythenorth> [see last comment]
21:22:33 <TrueBrain> in general, close tickets with more than 1 question tbfh :P
21:23:31 <TrueBrain> frosch123: because if you let go of the check-per-commit, the up-to-date can also be let go; master will break from time to time, but we just have to fix it up then :)
21:23:43 <TrueBrain> (no clue if it works; just suggesting :D)
21:24:00 <supermop_work> did anyone look at that thing few weeks ago in forums about quadratic pax generation fix?
21:24:07 <frosch123> TrueBrain: we also cannot check messages then
21:24:24 <TrueBrain> frosch123: messages should always comply tbh :P
21:24:34 <TrueBrain> a force push for that sounds reasonable
21:24:40 <TrueBrain> and a kick in the head for not installing the pre-commit :D
21:25:26 <TrueBrain> andythenorth: I closed #599 :(
21:25:27 <andythenorth> TrueBrain: can we have a script comment on every open FS issue, linking it to github?
21:25:37 <andythenorth> I worry about people like Michael and George
21:25:40 <andythenorth> who have many many issues
21:25:41 <TrueBrain> andythenorth: I think I will do that this weekend for every open ticket
21:25:45 <andythenorth> and won't know about github
21:25:53 <TrueBrain> just a link to GitHub
21:25:54 <andythenorth> we have no decent announcement yet :P
21:26:00 <andythenorth> and I haven't got inspired to write a proper one
21:26:01 <TrueBrain> just ... 400 times copy/pastnig/changing
21:26:04 <TrueBrain> not looking forward to that :P
21:26:13 <TrueBrain> before weekends end?
21:26:39 <supermop_work> also comment on forums "i did free work at in place of some workers who were on strike, why are the striking workers upset with me?"
21:26:41 <TrueBrain> I might script it .. but that might be more effort :)
21:27:06 <TrueBrain> supermop_work: because that person is a dick? :)
21:27:24 <supermop_work> i tried to be more diplomatic
21:27:54 <andythenorth> supermop_work: is there some 'off-topic' section? :P
21:27:57 <andythenorth> or is that in newgrf?
21:29:00 <andythenorth> we have some forum posters who live in a different reality to me
21:29:15 <andythenorth> I don't know who is neuro-non-typical
21:31:34 <andythenorth> frosch123: what is the official roadmap for newgrf?
21:31:42 <andythenorth> [yes | no | list of issues]
21:33:06 <andythenorth> the official roadmap is 'what?'
21:33:12 <peter1138> Hmm, I had a patch to allow non-combining rail types.
21:33:31 <peter1138> Somebody wanted it, so I made it, but never had a build for them to test.
21:33:33 <supermop_work> not roadtypesmap
21:33:45 <andythenorth> there are 24 newgrf issues, most of which can be sacked imho
21:34:19 <TrueBrain> andythenorth: closed #5140
21:34:28 <Eddi|zuHause> 12 from george for missing variables and 11 from snail for missing variables?
21:34:32 <andythenorth> the majority of newgrf issues are problems with the livery spec
21:34:38 <Eddi|zuHause> and 1 random one who doesn't have any clue?
21:34:41 <andythenorth> many things are missing or broken in the livery spec
21:36:24 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: i'd lean towards "deprecate this and reimplement it in a sane way"
21:36:30 <TrueBrain> orudge: yeah .. I fucked thatone up :D Just had to press the button
21:36:38 <TrueBrain> removing my merge and for ce pushing was the correct solution
21:36:59 <TrueBrain> let me check why CI fails .. that is weird
21:37:14 <orudge> There are no actual code changes of course
21:37:16 <orudge> maybe that confuses it :D
21:37:28 <TrueBrain> it says it cannot find the commit
21:37:51 <andythenorth> or "don't do that"
21:38:09 <TrueBrain> I already marked it as bug andythenorth
21:38:12 <orudge> TrueBrain: it looks like it's trying to pull from OpenTTD/OpenTTD.git
21:38:16 <orudge> rather than orudge/OpenTTD.git
21:38:19 <TrueBrain> (look at the labels andythenorth! :P)
21:38:25 <TrueBrain> orudge: no, that is correct
21:38:33 <orudge> is it then patching them in?
21:38:34 <TrueBrain> there is a ref in there pointing to the right code
21:38:39 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: every crash should be treated as "insert code to prevent this, if possible"
21:38:53 <frosch123> andythenorth: with any api i prefer "write a spec, let it rest for a few weeks/months, straighten it, repeat until good"
21:39:01 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: ok, quality issue then
21:39:18 <TrueBrain> orudge: this really is odd now :D
21:39:49 <frosch123> must "i need a var" requests are stupid, because authors tend to say what should be done, not what they need
21:39:54 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: this sounds like a "thread working on unclean data" issue
21:41:21 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: with 5588 i think they stated pretty clearly what they want. hide an entry from the refit list so existing vehicles can use it but no new ones
21:41:25 <TrueBrain> orudge: GitHub reports the PR is not there .... lol .....
21:41:38 <orudge> TrueBrain: I guess because the commit was rebased
21:41:47 <TrueBrain> git doesnt care about these things
21:42:14 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: problem is the existing spec has both things combined, and due to the strings having to be consecutive is not flexible enough to be extended
21:42:59 <andythenorth> problem is that subtypes are stupid
21:43:05 <andythenorth> so why do any more work on them?
21:43:27 <peter1138> Remove it completely?
21:43:34 <andythenorth> imagine the drama
21:43:44 <andythenorth> much as I like deleting
21:43:50 <TrueBrain> ah, orudge, think I got it
21:43:51 <andythenorth> "you have killed all our favourite sets"
21:43:56 <TrueBrain> somehow GitHub didn't sync your branch
21:44:03 <TrueBrain> I really should not have pushed that button
21:44:09 <TrueBrain> orudge: you did a 'git push -f' right?
21:44:31 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: the first thing i learned in compiler construction class: "you don't question the specs. you implement them to the letter"
21:44:33 <TrueBrain> the PR ref still shows my merge
21:44:46 <TrueBrain> orudge: lets close the PR and create a new one
21:44:48 <orudge> I can close it and create a new one if ... heh
21:44:51 <TrueBrain> dont feel like spending too much time on this :D
21:44:52 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: that assumes a spec
21:44:58 <TrueBrain> orudge: great minds think alike :)
21:45:11 <andythenorth> ok let's close a bunch more tickets, and see what happens
21:45:15 <andythenorth> worst is, re-open
21:47:43 <orudge> or squash and merge perhaps if preferred
21:47:56 <TrueBrain> orudge: lol .. seems the PR was not the issue
21:48:38 <Eddi|zuHause> "extended byte" is for situations where you want to do the least disturbance possible for existing GRFs
21:48:58 <Eddi|zuHause> but if you bump GRF-version, that seems a dismissible goal
21:49:02 <TrueBrain> now the PR really is correct ...
21:49:14 <TrueBrain> ah .. I was hitting GitHub caches
21:49:40 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: it's also for consistency
21:50:02 <frosch123> and for limiting work for updating stuff
21:50:25 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: maybe GRFv9 should get rid of "extended byte" and replace all of them with word?
21:51:48 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: that sounds stupid, since the next thing would readd them :p
21:52:05 <TrueBrain> andythenorth: #5695 LIES LIES LIES
21:52:25 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: well, not remove remove, but replace all existing uses?
21:52:35 <andythenorth> TrueBrain: such lol
21:52:47 <frosch123> still only causes noise without improving stuff
21:53:06 <TrueBrain> 300 as goal for the end of the weekend :)
21:53:11 <TrueBrain> or no more "from Flyspray" labels
21:53:18 <frosch123> i think grfv8 did not change anything on a binary level, only on semantical level
21:53:33 <frosch123> changin stuff on binary level breaks all tools
21:53:51 <andythenorth> still want it open? o_O
21:54:18 <Eddi|zuHause> i can't comment on how finished that was
21:55:06 <Eddi|zuHause> the comments sound like there were a bunch of open philosophy questions
21:55:25 <TrueBrain> I guess andythenorth is asking: do you want to make a PR out of it and see it through, or shall we close it? :)
21:55:32 <andythenorth> what TrueBrain said
21:56:04 <Eddi|zuHause> i'd have to dig a little deeper to decide that
21:56:18 <frosch123> andythenorth: see, prime example for a crap task, "expose L5"
21:56:28 <andythenorth> frosch123: I close it?
21:56:31 <andythenorth> pikka won't be offended
21:56:47 <TrueBrain> andythenorth: closed issues about musicsets and blabla
21:56:51 <frosch123> anyway, roads do not have this problem
21:57:24 <frosch123> andythenorth: what is the relation betwen 5132 and 5487?
21:57:57 <andythenorth> oops, that's because I pasted a transcript
21:58:03 <andythenorth> GH detected the link
21:58:19 <Eddi|zuHause> maybe 5132 should rather be a railtype property that switches the layout?
21:58:43 <Eddi|zuHause> that would avoid it becoming a variable with all the performance nightmares
21:59:06 <andythenorth> are railtypes on a roadmap?
21:59:23 <Eddi|zuHause> so you could have a list of N sprites with individual rails, or M sprites with combined junctions
21:59:24 <TrueBrain> you keep asking for something that doesnt exist :P
21:59:36 <andythenorth> my question is carefullly worded
21:59:44 <andythenorth> to produce the answer 'no'
22:00:23 <andythenorth> we don't need much more control over railtypes, it's barely seen
22:01:39 <peter1138> (Yeah, 5 years ago)
22:03:19 <Eddi|zuHause> mind you, that will only help with layering the ballast/rails properly, and not allow anything like smoother curves or stuff
22:04:02 <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause: Error: unexpected EOF while parsing (<string>, line 1)
22:04:43 <andythenorth> but actually I dunno
22:04:55 <andythenorth> we allow many other kinds of fine-grained cost
22:05:20 <andythenorth> but doesn't it require a huge mapping?
22:05:25 <Eddi|zuHause> doesn't sound like much work
22:05:28 <TrueBrain> it sounds really nice to have that andythenorth
22:05:32 <andythenorth> but it needs to know all known railtypes
22:05:42 <Eddi|zuHause> no, it must be a callback
22:05:44 <andythenorth> what is cost of MGLV -> ELRL?
22:05:49 <LordAro> what's the shortcut to crash ottd?
22:05:57 <andythenorth> LordAro: reload one of my grfs :P
22:06:00 <Eddi|zuHause> that gets the new railtype as index to the RTT in var10 or something
22:06:00 <LordAro> < andythenorth> something about grfs
22:06:10 <TrueBrain> if that wasnt removed
22:06:14 <Eddi|zuHause> and returns the cost
22:06:30 <andythenorth> but it's not a cost, it's a differential
22:06:35 <andythenorth> seems insane to me
22:06:47 <LordAro> TrueBrain: i should probably check if it compiles first
22:06:48 <andythenorth> as bad as the vehicle refit cost FAIL
22:07:01 <TrueBrain> GitHub doesnt always store my label changes .. that is annoying
22:07:06 <andythenorth> it does, but you have to wait
22:07:11 <andythenorth> like...seconds :P
22:07:16 <andythenorth> or so I found, YMMV
22:07:31 <andythenorth> "change label, close tab" fails a lot
22:07:55 <andythenorth> I love how async is used to make it 'realtime'
22:07:58 <frosch123> LordAro: killall -6 openttd
22:07:59 <Eddi|zuHause> the callback would return the total conversion cost, replacing the default "remove and rebuild" calculation completely
22:08:08 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: put a spec on the issue? o_O
22:08:23 <Eddi|zuHause> and the callback author can decide what to do with unknown railtypes
22:08:48 <TrueBrain> LordAro: a pull request for you! :) (more issues with realpath)
22:08:53 <Eddi|zuHause> "callback failed" will revert to the original calculation
22:09:00 <LordAro> TrueBrain: i just saw
22:09:06 <LordAro> apparently realpath was a real bad idea
22:09:11 <TrueBrain> and our first non-us PR! :D
22:09:17 <TrueBrain> I am really surprised by that tbh ..
22:09:17 <peter1138> Ah, andythenorth already closed the one I have a patch for...
22:09:20 <TrueBrain> but his solution is nice LordAro :)
22:09:24 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: but i can't because i don't have a github account :p
22:09:31 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: that is solvable
22:09:35 <TrueBrain> peter1138: if we keep issues open you have a patch for, we never close anything :(
22:09:41 <andythenorth> and I don't even use email :P
22:09:46 <LordAro> TrueBrain: shame it failed the check :p
22:10:07 <andythenorth> want me to try compiling with it?
22:10:21 <Eddi|zuHause> speaking of email, how should i bother changing my email on the openttd.org account?
22:11:09 <peter1138> But I don't know if it works, becuase I'm not an artiste.
22:11:52 <LordAro> TrueBrain: i'm not sure anything in config.lib has an bash specific stuff
22:11:56 <LordAro> not sure if we want to break that...
22:12:13 <LordAro> ( ${1#./} is a bashism)
22:13:21 <Eddi|zuHause> ok, so account.openttd.org doesn't actually allow me to change my email :p
22:13:45 <Eddi|zuHause> "This page is currently incomplete, but it will be finished in the very near feature."
22:13:48 <TrueBrain> andythenorth: already 72 things classified as "real" bug .. oef :P
22:13:51 <TrueBrain> 200 is going to be hard
22:14:03 <Eddi|zuHause> that sentence has been there for what? 5 years? :p
22:14:16 <TrueBrain> I have 3 emails about it
22:14:25 <TrueBrain> (tells you how often people want to ...)
22:14:30 <andythenorth> yeah the website needs work
22:14:33 <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: email info@ with your request
22:14:33 <peter1138> cmake smells. I dislike it.
22:14:34 <andythenorth> but first...github :)
22:15:04 <orudge> TrueBrain: Hurrah, it worked ;)
22:15:49 <frosch123> TrueBrain: so how was the expeience with "update branch"?
22:16:02 <TrueBrain> it creates a merge commit
22:16:08 <TrueBrain> which commit-checker denies
22:16:13 <TrueBrain> and things go wrong real quick from there :D
22:16:22 <TrueBrain> I was hoping it rebased .. but no
22:16:39 <frosch123> apparently 6702 is not auto-rebaseable :)
22:16:53 <andythenorth> forums can't agree on correct outcome
22:17:34 <peter1138> You close a ticket then give me a link? o_O
22:17:41 <Eddi|zuHause> TrueBrain: i'd assume to that 3 emails is added another few who tried but didn't bother mailing and just gave up
22:18:25 <TrueBrain> tnx LordAro; nice work :)
22:18:48 <Wolf01> andythenorth: easy, all engines play the sound
22:18:48 <TrueBrain> andythenorth: 6 years and no consensus? Sounds like a closed issue to me :)
22:19:07 <andythenorth> well there was a consensus for option 4
22:19:13 <andythenorth> but then it got derailed as usual in forums
22:19:44 <TrueBrain> that makes 330; good enough for today :)
22:19:51 <TrueBrain> bit worries about the amount of real bugs :)
22:19:57 <TrueBrain> well, 23 still in triage
22:20:03 <TrueBrain> so it might be not that bad :)
22:20:09 <Eddi|zuHause> TrueBrain: mail sent
22:20:25 <andythenorth> we can get to 329
22:20:25 <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: I hope someone will pick it up soon for you :)
22:20:32 <TrueBrain> not sure who of the readers of info@ can
22:20:58 <TrueBrain> I trust your opinion about GRFs :)
22:21:10 <frosch123> hmm, i don't get it
22:21:35 <andythenorth> TrueBrain: seriously, I wouldn't :P
22:21:35 <frosch123> what issue does gh have with 6702?
22:21:42 <TrueBrain> it is not up-to-date
22:21:44 <andythenorth> I am too close to my own grfs
22:21:47 <TrueBrain> there is a new commit on master
22:21:49 <Rubidium> regarding saving the password in the config; if you want seeds to change between servers, then you can't store it hashed. You could store it encrypted, but then you need to store the (decrypt) key as well... or derive the decrypt key from a password the user has to enter (which defeats the purpose of saving)
22:21:49 <andythenorth> to judge what other people want
22:21:49 <Eddi|zuHause> now different question... i have a cheap-o-free email provider, who apparently limits the amount of recipients of outgoing mail. anyone have a clue how i can set my mail client to split the mail locally and then send multiple?
22:22:03 <frosch123> TrueBrain: why is the button named "rebase" then?
22:22:17 <TrueBrain> frosch123: in case you do allow non-up-to-date
22:22:25 <TrueBrain> I have been trying to tell you the ups and downs of that earlier :)
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22:23:31 <frosch123> LordAro: are those all, or the most recent n?
22:23:52 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm assuming that's how long the news history is?
22:23:58 <LordAro> TrueBrain: re jenkins output, can you specify a little message about why it failed? "This commit cannot be built" is not all that helpful when it's just the commit message it's failed on
22:24:10 <TrueBrain> LordAro: the current plugin cannot do that
22:24:11 <LordAro> frosch123: it's just listing everything in _oldest_news
22:24:18 <TrueBrain> I would really wish I could let it report on each step
22:24:26 <TrueBrain> feel free to make a patch for it :)
22:24:51 <TrueBrain> frosch123: I suggest we let go of the up-to-date requirement on merging; the requirement is still there if CI is runniing anyway
22:24:51 <andythenorth> we can get to 300
22:24:56 <TrueBrain> so when the PR is created, it has to be up-to-date
22:25:02 <TrueBrain> when merging ... it just needs to be clean
22:25:12 <TrueBrain> (master might fail from time to time, but .. we fix that then :P)
22:25:16 <frosch123> TrueBrain: yep, wanted to suggest the same :)
22:25:24 <TrueBrain> we have to fiddle with this a bit :)
22:25:54 <Eddi|zuHause> TrueBrain: did you consider that the PR might have been sitting there for a year (or 5, or 20)?
22:25:56 <TrueBrain> frosch123: there you go
22:26:03 <frosch123> LordAro: i wondered whether the crashlog would be thousands of lines long, but i guess there is nothing wrong with it being long
22:26:12 <LordAro> i foresee a need for a CONTRIBUTING file in the repo
22:26:24 <TrueBrain> can you make a start with that?
22:26:43 <andythenorth> that would be good
22:26:54 <andythenorth> the Bootstrap one I posted is not bad IMHO
22:27:08 <TrueBrain> frosch123: looking good
22:27:58 <LordAro> frosch123: there is RemoveOldNewsItems which i think prunes the list
22:28:01 <LordAro> no idea how often though
22:28:33 <TrueBrain> and frosch123 bursts into the room and yells: WHAT? to noone in particular :D
22:29:01 <TrueBrain> frosch123: fixed all branches to follow the same requirement
22:29:10 <frosch123> what is looking good? me?
22:29:21 <TrueBrain> you? ALWAYS! but the merge always went good :)
22:29:27 <TrueBrain> andythenorth: not only for your age ;)
22:30:04 <andythenorth> peter1138: so NRT? o_O
22:30:53 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: looks like it's expending the height of the line, but not the height of the underlying panel
22:31:11 <andythenorth> I have no idea how to repro
22:31:36 <Eddi|zuHause> well with the development version of DBSet, of course :p
22:31:44 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: maybe you can try CETS?
22:31:51 <andythenorth> is that distributed?
22:31:57 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: it might have vehicles similar to that
22:32:03 <TrueBrain> andythenorth: I closed 6586
22:32:26 <LordAro> andythenorth: that gif is ancient :p
22:32:33 <andythenorth> I wish I'd made it
22:32:42 <andythenorth> I like that it goes on...and on
22:33:40 <LordAro> glx: can you confirm (on #6708) whether mingw has readlink?
22:34:06 <DorpsGek> andythenorth: samu was last seen in #openttd 3 days, 7 hours, 31 minutes, and 36 seconds ago: <Samu> :(
22:34:12 <TrueBrain> I really need to make a mingw docker I see ..
22:34:27 <andythenorth> seriously I should read src
22:34:35 <andythenorth> hth would autorenew be adding implicit orders?
22:34:53 <andythenorth> autorenew is batshit, but not that batshit
22:35:17 <TrueBrain> yeah, but that bug seems like really broken
22:35:35 <TrueBrain> GitHub is weird ... the history shows I never added 'bug' label, yet it is there :D
22:36:10 <LordAro> github's caches get confused sometimes
22:36:13 <andythenorth> TrueBrain: it's an EBKC
22:37:56 <TrueBrain> LordAro: I guess we can accept 6708 .. for mingw there is already special code; we can check that at a later moment?
22:38:24 <LordAro> TrueBrain: yeah, seems reasonable
22:39:22 <TrueBrain> LordAro: you can add: This fixes #5722 in your commit message; than it autocloses! :D
22:39:25 <LordAro> "OpenTTD 20180412--g192770e6" Hrm
22:39:45 <LordAro> TrueBrain: i decided it wasn't strictly relevant to that issue, so I added it in the PR instead :p
22:39:48 <andythenorth> just join a company ^^
22:40:21 <TrueBrain> andythenorth: again, check labels :P
22:40:29 <TrueBrain> andythenorth: I do think this is a bug that needs addressing :)
22:40:39 <andythenorth> I left my comment :)
22:40:47 <TrueBrain> its weird to not have it
22:40:57 <andythenorth> there's quality and there's quality :P
22:40:58 <TrueBrain> or someone has to explain it to me :P
22:41:02 <andythenorth> it's weird not to have world peace
22:41:06 <TrueBrain> also sounds like 5 minutes work
22:41:11 <andythenorth> anyway, I left it open
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22:41:18 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: so, i can sorta reproduce 6586 with CETS and the vehicle "VT 11.5" (introduced ca. 1957)
22:41:34 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: i don't know how uptodate my openttd is though
22:41:51 <andythenorth> got a GH log in yet? o_O
22:41:57 <TrueBrain> tnx again LordAro :) (for 6708 :))
22:42:37 <TrueBrain> CI is a bit busy :P
22:42:42 <andythenorth> it means converting tiles to water, on build
22:42:45 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: i think it's an issue with the window drawing order
22:42:57 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: and there might also be an obiwan in the window offsets
22:43:09 <andythenorth> but what kind of water? Sea, at height level > 1?
22:43:16 <andythenorth> or river, but some magic river
22:43:22 <andythenorth> and then if industry closes, what?
22:44:02 <TrueBrain> LordAro: argh, I dont think he understood me/us :)
22:44:14 <TrueBrain> now we do need glx to approve :)
22:44:15 <frosch123> andythenorth: i think some of that was implemented
22:44:39 <frosch123> industries preserve the water class
22:44:52 <frosch123> and when they draw the flat sea tile, ottd replaces it with river or canal water
22:45:15 <frosch123> but there is likely not enough control for *all* cases
22:45:55 <andythenorth> is the issue clear?
22:46:13 <andythenorth> George wants to set the water bit when the industry is built
22:46:27 <andythenorth> on any arbitrary tile
22:46:39 <andythenorth> at any height level
22:46:45 <frosch123> well, newlandscape stuff :)
22:46:50 <andythenorth> I think it's nuts
22:47:23 <andythenorth> he could just build the hotel with water tiles in it
22:47:31 <andythenorth> which might be what you were proposing
22:47:47 <andythenorth> then they build over the river, and provide $whatever sprites
22:49:21 <TrueBrain> andythenorth: #6633 too me it sounds evil/annoying to fix this .. what do you think?
22:49:40 <andythenorth> I think we have 624 issues :)
22:49:44 <TrueBrain> ty glx! That is serious good news :)
22:50:11 <TrueBrain> wtf GitHub ... fails again to fetch the git hash
22:50:31 <andythenorth> 6633 sounds evil, but like a proper bug :(
22:50:48 <andythenorth> if the report is correct, cargo monitor only detects cargo going to a station, not an industry
22:51:04 <TrueBrain> yes ... but it sounds like it is annoying if it would to an industry
22:51:08 <TrueBrain> this gives a tiny bit more room
22:51:22 <TrueBrain> but okay .. bug it is
22:51:24 <andythenorth> spec says it's an industry :(
22:51:32 <andythenorth> report might be EBKC
22:51:59 <TrueBrain> okay, mister GitHub, why are you so weird ....
22:52:02 <andythenorth> hmm, patch suggests that it's a bug
22:52:05 <TrueBrain> the GUI shows another hash ...
22:52:21 <andythenorth> error between keyboard and chair
22:52:49 <andythenorth> save the world by typing less
22:53:20 <glx> nice all PR are rejected ;)
22:53:26 <andythenorth> but I have had kind of 'meh' discussing it
22:53:34 <andythenorth> it's never going to get approved even if patched?
22:55:27 <TrueBrain> do you expect it in the next 6 months ?
22:55:54 <TrueBrain> there is your answer
22:58:23 <TrueBrain> I do not get why GitHub fails with PRs
23:00:37 <Eddi|zuHause> but they both don't work right and they cause #6586
23:01:24 <andythenorth> does blame tells us anything?
23:01:43 <andythenorth> I can't find the rev
23:02:00 <Eddi|zuHause> i *think* it was meant to hide the light and dark grey panel borders to make the lines seem as one
23:02:16 <Eddi|zuHause> but for that it must be 2 high instead of 1
23:02:29 <Eddi|zuHause> and it must be done before the train sprites are drawn
23:02:31 <LordAro> pretty sure findversion.sh:72 shouldn't be doing the second sed command
23:03:21 <andythenorth> I don't understand the goal of that change
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23:05:37 <Eddi|zuHause> well _my_ change was just to remove these broken lines
23:05:43 <LordAro> TrueBrain: you want to give #6708 jenkins build a poke? i imagine it tried building it when it was half way through being rebased
23:06:00 <TrueBrain> the refs is not correct
23:06:00 <andythenorth> trying to find a commit that touched them
23:06:08 <TrueBrain> via git I cannot pull that commit
23:07:07 <TrueBrain> I really dont get it
23:07:48 <TrueBrain> can you verify you see the same? refs/pull/6708/head
23:07:55 <TrueBrain> should show 4febcc4
23:08:25 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: that seems right
23:08:54 <TrueBrain> funny, refs/pull/6708/merge does return the right chain
23:09:42 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: so anyway, i'd move the GfxFillRect to before the loop that draws the train sprites, and then fill the whole rect instead of individual lines
23:10:38 <TrueBrain> LordAro: his commit is not on top of master; but that shouldnt be the reason ... really weird
23:12:29 <andythenorth> TrueBrain: 320 issues, time to quit? o_O
23:12:46 <andythenorth> I have read some of these about 50 times in last 12 months :P
23:12:57 <TrueBrain> we are slowlygetting there :)
23:13:06 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: you need to do a PR or gist :D
23:13:18 <andythenorth> I am git-paste monkey for eddi today :)
23:13:25 <andythenorth> copy from irc, paste to GH
23:13:29 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: that is not ready yet
23:13:46 <andythenorth> GH issues dislike pasted code
23:13:53 <andythenorth> is that what gist is for?
23:16:26 <Eddi|zuHause> " * @param y The y coordinate" <-- well is that the top or bottom y coordinate?
23:16:40 <Eddi|zuHause> also how does vscoll_pos work?
23:16:57 <Eddi|zuHause> maybe someone more knowledgeable about gui code should finish this
23:22:36 <Eddi|zuHause> the surrounding code does some weird - operations on y
23:23:10 <Eddi|zuHause> "y - line_height * vscroll_pos + sprite_y_offset + pitch"
23:23:12 <Wolf01> Yes, sorry, py is y + text_y_offset, then the rest should be the same
23:23:38 <Eddi|zuHause> so the -line_height*vscroll_pos is adjusting for hidden lines that are scrolled outside?
23:25:46 <TrueBrain> okay, asked GitHub why PRs are out of date
23:27:57 <TrueBrain> nice andythenorth :)
23:29:06 <TrueBrain> lol, timeout while building OpenTTD
23:29:29 <LordAro> it really doesn't like that PR :p
23:29:51 <TrueBrain> I really dont like that Jenkins plugin
23:30:46 <TrueBrain> the clang takes more IO priority over GCC
23:30:53 <TrueBrain> so the GCC dockers can timeout :)
23:31:12 <TrueBrain> I see andythenorth finally found a way to say: NO!
23:31:30 <andythenorth> I said no 50 ways last year
23:31:34 <andythenorth> I just needed a new one
23:31:36 <TrueBrain> going to assign 2 more cores to that machines .. that should help
23:33:03 <Wolf01> Also, 'night, I'm sleeping on the keyboard while playing
23:33:39 <andythenorth> can I get to 310? o_O
23:33:51 <TrueBrain> dont do too much at once
23:33:55 <TrueBrain> it makes you mute to certain things :)
23:36:23 <andythenorth> there's always 're-open'
23:36:30 <andythenorth> people want a feature, they need to make a case
23:36:40 <andythenorth> I don't just dump in tickets and wait
23:36:55 <andythenorth> I make a case, help with spec, help with test grf, patch nml etc
23:37:04 <TrueBrain> they cannot reopen andythenorth :)
23:37:17 <TrueBrain> DorpsGek owns the issues :D
23:38:30 <Eddi|zuHause> uhm, i hit a roadblock... i can't move the "separate sprite row" bool before drawing the sprites, because it's not known how wide the sprites are before drawing them
23:39:21 <Eddi|zuHause> and something in me doesn't want to draw the sprites, erase them, and draw them again
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23:41:02 <TrueBrain> wtf ... now Jenkins is acting up ...
23:42:52 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: i won't be able to finish this "proper" version
23:47:02 <TrueBrain> I changed the commit message ... hope I am not being punished :D
23:47:53 <TrueBrain> okay, this nightmare is over; now time for some sleep
23:47:59 <TrueBrain> I wanted to watch a movie .. I kinda failed :D
23:48:08 <TrueBrain> 311 andythenorth; not bad :D
23:48:30 <andythenorth> timetables have so much bbad :)
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