IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2018-04-11
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00:07:13 <LordAro> TrueBrain: jenkins appears to be struggling
00:07:49 <glx> fatal: write error: No space left on device
00:18:08 <TrueBrain> lets see where it is hiding all that space
00:23:00 <TrueBrain> docker images .. hmm ..
00:24:36 <TrueBrain> volumes are not destroyed
00:28:29 <TrueBrain> okay, retriggered orudge's job
00:28:42 <TrueBrain> how bad can it get, that even orudge contributes :D \o/ :D
00:30:45 <TrueBrain> I like that editorconfig shows the same company (jetbrains) 4 times
00:30:51 <TrueBrain> as if they are different products :P
00:32:07 <TrueBrain> michi_cc: you meant for the patches I port from FlySpray to PR on GitHub?
00:32:28 <TrueBrain> I feel a bit reluctant to do that, as I am not sure everyone likes us to use their name/email on GitHub like that :)
00:32:42 <TrueBrain> so I guess we do it the old-fashion way, and just say: (patch by ...) in commit message
00:34:47 <TrueBrain> peter1138: Jenkinsfile is horrible, as you can pick either of two languages, which look identical, and documentation freely uses from one to the other
00:34:52 <TrueBrain> just a lot of copy/pasting of examples
00:34:58 <TrueBrain> and HOPE it glues together correctly
00:35:06 <TrueBrain> it is really badly documented
00:35:17 <TrueBrain> most plugins also tell: this is how I can be used, now fuck off :P
00:35:30 <TrueBrain> (they simply forget to show any example, of real-use situation, or what-ever)
00:35:37 <TrueBrain> bit drowning is involved
00:36:17 <TrueBrain> right; I was already in bed. Volume: stay empty
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09:02:41 <Pikka> notepad++ just ate my entire nfo file
09:06:27 <andythenorth> sometimes my computer just loses entire files
09:07:35 <Pikka> I have a week-old backup, hooray
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09:07:41 <Pikka> so I didn't lose everything. Just a lot.
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09:10:07 <peter1138> TrueBrain, I really love the documentation link on there as well.
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11:13:32 <andythenorth> 18 vehicles complete
11:13:39 <andythenorth> just 174 left to go
11:16:32 <andythenorth> maybe it's time to figure out a style for narrow gauge
11:19:15 <Eddi|zuHause> that's tricky, because some narrow gauge railways had very small cars, and other times, it carried regular cars on new wheels
11:19:44 <andythenorth> as long as it looks 'smaller' it's ok
11:23:34 <Pikka> when does narrow gauge meet freight trams coming the other way?
11:24:41 <andythenorth> then NRT adds industrial tiny trains (like small ones in HEQS)
11:25:25 <andythenorth> brit Horse narrow gauge is pretty sparse
11:25:35 <andythenorth> it was more interesting in the africa roster I had
11:25:51 <andythenorth> capacity-per-unit-length is lower, so very very long trains
11:25:57 <andythenorth> makes a different play style
11:26:20 <andythenorth> (narrow gauge was main type in africa roster)
11:27:07 <andythenorth> I might pineapple
11:27:31 <andythenorth> I was going to australia economy, but I'm not sure it's a good gameplay choice
11:30:30 <Eddi|zuHause> well, what i was trying to say: carrying regular wagons would make it technically a tiny bit larger, due to the extra wheels
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11:33:05 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: that would go better if we allowed loading vehicles in vehicles
11:33:11 <andythenorth> peter1138 has a patch for that ;)
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11:47:39 <peter1138> I never got as far as that.
11:48:36 <peter1138> I think I'd like to revamp multiple docks again.
11:49:05 <peter1138> Seems that was actually on my dead drive ;(
11:49:39 <LordAro> take a look at whichever patchpack implements it?
11:49:49 <peter1138> I did that once, I didn't like it :p
11:50:46 <peter1138> Damn it, my scales didn't upload this morning :(
11:51:01 <peter1138> And it was 1lb down.
11:54:04 <andythenorth> I haven't tried the multi-docks patch
11:59:56 <peter1138> Yeah... these random patches in random threads...
12:00:10 <peter1138> This is why the move to github is good.
12:01:33 <andythenorth> multi docks, flat docks, one tile docks, newgrf docks :P
12:01:55 <peter1138> I hadn't logged into tt-forums for so longer that I hadn't twigged my username had been changed back. A year ago.
12:02:30 <peter1138> I'll ignore the formerly known as bit as I am now ;p
12:26:38 <peter1138> I don't remember what my signature referenced
12:32:40 <andythenorth> might change my location
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12:47:11 <andythenorth> time to switch to Slack? o-O
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13:52:56 <Eddi|zuHause> i thought discord?
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14:08:17 <andythenorth> current horse race seems to be Slack, Discord and Whatsapp
14:10:28 <Eddi|zuHause> whatsapp is for phones only?
14:12:00 <andythenorth> I haven't gone exploring
14:12:04 <andythenorth> it's mostly a non-problem
14:12:09 <andythenorth> I have irc, SMS, phone
14:15:09 *** ChanServ changes topic to "1.8.0 | https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD | Website: *.openttd.org (translator: translator, server list: servers, wiki: wiki, release info: finger) | Don't ask to ask, just ask | 'Latest' is not a valid version, 'Most recent' neither | English only | Logs: @logs | #openttd.dev if this channel is really spammy"
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14:24:21 <SpComb> gotta keep the barrier for entry high enough
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16:27:44 <andythenorth> will I have horse done before Trump and Putin get into a shooting war?
16:31:51 <Pikka> andythenorth, what carriage variations?
16:33:13 <andythenorth> coach, restaurant car, brake coach, brake coach turned around the other way
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16:49:13 <peter1138> Strange, I've got an old stash that "git show stash xxx" shows lots of lines added/removed
16:50:50 <peter1138> Oh well, deleted it now.
16:52:20 <LordAro> probably not important
16:57:15 <andythenorth> comments can never break a compile, right? o_O
17:00:01 <glx> if you don't close a block comment
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17:01:39 <andythenorth> I should compile before pushing :P
17:03:13 <Alberth> sounds like a good advice :)
17:03:35 <andythenorth> 26 vehicles done, 166 not done
17:03:45 <andythenorth> @calc 26 / (166+26)
17:03:45 <DorpsGek> andythenorth: 0.135416666667
17:08:34 <Alberth> better not compute such numbers, it's depressing
17:13:57 <supermop_work> can someone modify dorpsgek to refuse to do such math>
17:15:24 <andythenorth> the next 21 are pretty easy
17:17:36 <andythenorth> @calc 57 / (166 + 26)
17:17:36 <DorpsGek> andythenorth: 0.296875
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17:22:25 <supermop_work> Pikka: the two legged train networks feel a bit odd to me
17:23:07 <supermop_work> if only the drop off terminal is shared, does it need to be a signalled network, instead of just two lines of single engine in steam?
17:23:46 <supermop_work> i get that holding an ai to the standard or 'does it make pretty rails' is tough
17:24:06 <Pikka> I thought it was kind of neat. plus they get to share the depot. And the PBS blocking means they squish far fewer RVs. ;)
17:24:36 <Pikka> but sure, once you realise that the AI always builds exactly the same thing... it's a bit of a one-trick pony. :P
17:26:28 <supermop_work> i just mean that for a few of them, the track runs close to parallel for the last 20-ish tiles
17:27:07 <supermop_work> and an earlier junction might make for easier squeezing the tracks among other stuff
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17:27:46 <Pikka> it would, but it be a lot of work, and need reconfiguring a lot of what it currently does
17:29:40 <Pikka> with a more complex track network it would be harder to avoid jams, and harder to cleam up partially abandoned tracks
17:30:31 <supermop_work> now i am interested in making an ai
17:30:50 <supermop_work> nfc where to start
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17:53:15 <supermop_work> also last night noticed a supply depot with the north corner of the road loop touching the inter-town road network,
17:53:54 <supermop_work> it was full-loading trucks for 3 towns there but the ones loading had no cargo being allocated
17:54:36 <supermop_work> the tailback then stretched onto the road all the way into the next city, blocking other buses and trucks
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18:49:03 <TrueBrain> nice patch LordAro :D Happy the CI is now reporting less stuff :)
18:58:39 <LordAro> there's still a couple of warnings with newer compilers, but not with these versions it would seem :)
19:00:10 <Wolf01> Holy steam, why do you do this to me?
19:00:46 <Wolf01> Ok, that now the money pump started to work again, but heh
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19:01:57 <Wolf01> But I have some lego to purchase... *wallet ducks*
19:03:21 <Alberth> I got a complaint from your cabinet, it doesn't like all these boxes
19:04:00 <Wolf01> Then you got a complaint from my bedroom, my cabinet holds food, papers and brooms :P
19:04:32 <Alberth> hmm, wrong note then :p
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19:38:07 <supermop_work> Wolf01: at the lego store yesterday they had a little set of a minifig with a shelf of tiny mini fig scale mini figs
19:38:30 <supermop_work> well bigger than that, but about 7mm tall
19:59:18 <TrueBrain> wow, fast reviews @ OpenTTD ... patches being approved before the CI finishes :o
20:00:19 <frosch123> i need to adjust the commit hooks
20:00:23 <frosch123> it rejects my stuff :p
20:00:50 <frosch123> apparently the '#' comments in the commit message are also checked and considered invalid
20:01:15 <frosch123> also findversion.sh and Makefile contain some tabs to separate fields
20:01:28 <frosch123> i now replaced them with \t, but i am not sure how much of that is bashism
20:02:36 <peter1138> I got my Jenkinsfile stuff going.
20:03:12 <andythenorth> do I need to write any kind of announcements then?
20:03:21 <peter1138> No, it's too late now ;p
20:03:26 <andythenorth> forums seem to have covered it
20:03:43 <peter1138> But yeah, might as well.
20:05:01 <TrueBrain> andythenorth: seems worth it!
20:05:17 <TrueBrain> I left you a comment on it yesterday
20:06:39 <TrueBrain> and I would prioritize the benefit of GitHub over things like infrastructure and maintaince of it
20:07:00 <TrueBrain> just gives silly discussions like: I HAVE NO PROBLEM MAINTAINING IT BECAUSE I CAN ALSO MAINTAIN MY 2 VISITS IN A MONTH WEBSITE JUST FINE
20:07:03 <TrueBrain> you know the type :)
20:07:43 <TrueBrain> yes, it was Rubidium I was refering to. He has absolutely no clue what so ever :P
20:08:02 <Rubidium> although my server has at least 6 unique visitors a month
20:08:55 <andythenorth> I had a server once
20:08:59 <andythenorth> actually I didn't
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20:09:19 <TrueBrain> and we reach 20k unique visitors ... and 0.5 milion hits a month .. but that is excluding ingame content :P
20:09:51 <TrueBrain> ingame content pushes as much requests per WEEK as de rest does per MONTH
20:10:50 <andythenorth> ok, infra is trying to sell a negative, github is trying to sell a positive
20:11:06 <andythenorth> I just don't want fifty million patch review requests, and then whining :)
20:11:19 <andythenorth> this is *not* the reason daylength isn't in trunk
20:11:45 <andythenorth> daylength is not in trunk because daylength is utterly flawed concept
20:12:07 <andythenorth> I still get the bullshit FIRS support posts that turn out to be daylength related
20:12:42 <TrueBrain> frosch123: why not a 'git describe', instead of almost git-describe, without the 'commits since last tag'? :)
20:12:55 <TrueBrain> so <commitdate>-`git describe`?
20:13:37 <TrueBrain> owh, and we have no tag in master it seems :D
20:13:42 <TrueBrain> (tags are in the release branches :)
20:14:14 <peter1138> TrueBrain, I was trying to counteract the "Github is a single point of failure" point. I guess I didn't :p
20:14:47 <frosch123> TrueBrain: what is use use of git describe? i can make use of a date and of a (short) hash
20:14:56 <peter1138> And now I'm buggering off up to the woods on my bicycle
20:15:08 <TrueBrain> frosch123: more like others? But I was mainly asking if you were aware you were very close to git describe there :)
20:17:04 <frosch123> OpenTTD-Deprecated-New-17-g8e4d9f199f <- 17 revisions after new repo :p
20:17:44 <frosch123> (OpenTTD-Deprecated-New is my tag on new revision matching the last old revision)
20:17:58 <LANJesus> why the hell did you guys do this to the old repo again?
20:18:23 <frosch123> LANJesus: check the log from 3 week ago
20:18:39 <LANJesus> to quote my three year old "i can't!"
20:18:50 <LANJesus> was i here three weeks ago?
20:19:03 <TrueBrain> frosch123: owh, I see now, the tag is not there if it isn't on the release branch .. gotcha
20:19:20 <TrueBrain> its the branch .. not the tag :D
20:20:06 <TrueBrain> I wonder how this will go with the first release, but we will find that out when it gets there :D
20:21:31 <frosch123> luckily we do not have a fixed date next time :p
20:23:52 <frosch123> TrueBrain: it's nice that dorpsgek fills in while translators are not committing :)
20:24:29 <TrueBrain> sorry about the single reviews ... I keep thinking: I wont have any more comments
20:24:31 <TrueBrain> I shouldnt do that :P
20:24:51 <TrueBrain> frosch123: from a git perspective, it is very weird that a single commit contains 2 commits
20:25:00 <TrueBrain> especially as the second line in a commit message won't ever really be shown
20:25:22 <TrueBrain> so I would expect it like: remove REVISION from newgrf in 1 commit, then the next commit the rest of your stuff
20:32:11 <TrueBrain> new goal of the year: learn NML
20:32:49 <andythenorth> TrueBrain: like it you will not
20:34:19 <TrueBrain> I also wonder how difficult it is to change the configure system by cmake
20:34:54 <LordAro> TrueBrain: funny, i was wondering about autoconf earlier :p
20:35:07 <TrueBrain> wtf is wrong with you
20:35:20 <LordAro> cmake is nice, but its generated makefiles depend on cmake
20:35:20 <TrueBrain> hmm .. I compile something via the Linux Subsystem on Windows
20:35:34 <TrueBrain> but .. seems it doesnt provide a valid binary :D
20:36:48 <LANJesus> why auto import from svn? was there metadata that was needed which wasn't available in the tracking repo?
20:37:37 <LordAro> ^ i know it's been said in bits before, but it'd be good to have it in a single place
20:38:33 <LANJesus> TrueBrain: i ran the linux binary in WSL to workaround the mouse bug.. i did not have a good time : (
20:38:35 * andythenorth considers pasting a 10MB example NML file for TB
20:38:39 <Wolf01> I would like to change dns, anyone tried 1.1.1.1?
20:38:42 <andythenorth> but I think pastebin would crash
20:38:52 <LANJesus> Wolf01: isn't that in asia?
20:38:58 <LANJesus> or is it multihomed?
20:39:52 <LANJesus> there's also 1.0.0.1 right?
20:41:01 <TrueBrain> okay, kinda surprised that you cannot start Windows binaries from the subsystem .. but I guess it makes sense
20:42:45 <TrueBrain> missing header: zlib.h
20:43:13 <TrueBrain> guess it is not common that people try to compile without :)
20:43:16 <Wolf01> You can't use wine on wsl?
20:43:26 <TrueBrain> inception inside inception :D
20:44:34 <Wolf01> I installed vcxsrv so I can run UI programs too, specially OTTD :P
20:44:34 <TrueBrain> cool, I can run a dedicated server in WSL :)
20:45:07 <Wolf01> I tried to play in text mode, but nah... I miss buttons everytime
20:45:30 <LANJesus> TrueBrain: you need to put .exe on the end
20:48:28 <TrueBrain> hmm, I forgot OpenTTD still confuses host/build/target
20:48:41 <TrueBrain> always has been a bitch to get cross-compiling anywhere near sane
20:49:39 <TrueBrain> what is up with zlib ... I explicitly say: --without-zlib
20:53:38 <TrueBrain> they claim running .exe files should work in WSL ......... so much claiming :D
20:55:09 <TrueBrain> yeah ... one thing they failed to mention in their blog ..
20:55:09 <Wolf01> ./program.exe runs fine
20:55:15 <TrueBrain> it has to be on a mount that is reachable
20:55:19 <TrueBrain> so not in the home folder of the WSL
20:55:59 <Wolf01> I put links to everywhere to avoid cd to long paths
20:56:14 <Wolf01> So I don't really care :D
20:56:23 <TrueBrain> I really dislike the permissions on the windows NTFS
20:56:29 <TrueBrain> but symlinking .. does that work? :D
20:56:58 <TrueBrain> awh, same error .. BOOOEEEEE
20:57:02 <Wolf01> "drwxrwxrwx 0 root root"
20:57:05 <LANJesus> don't try to interact with lxss/wsl paths from win32
20:57:16 <LANJesus> you WILL have a bad time
20:57:35 <LANJesus> compile in WSL from an NTFS location
20:57:37 <Wolf01> That's why I made them FROM wsl
20:57:51 <LANJesus> eg /mnt/c/your/favorite/location/trunk
20:58:25 <LANJesus> then you can just ./openttd.exe no problem
20:58:42 <LANJesus> also realize that WSL I/O is still crap
20:58:57 <LANJesus> i'm not sure if it's better from the virtual filesystem or on NTFS
20:59:18 <TrueBrain> haha, I really confused the configuration system now :D Sweet :)
20:59:42 <TrueBrain> (linux FHS with Windows Binary :D)
21:00:01 <glx> <TrueBrain> but symlinking .. does that work? :D <-- it's called junction, and it needs an external exe to create them
21:00:15 <TrueBrain> glx: I really meant a symlink in WSL
21:00:22 <TrueBrain> and it surprisingly "just worked"
21:00:29 <TrueBrain> symlink from an NTFS volume to an ext4 volume :)
21:01:34 <Wolf01> ln /path/to/destination/ mydest... or the other way around, I always have to see the synopsis
21:02:05 <TrueBrain> okay .. with a bit of fiddle, it works :D
21:02:12 <TrueBrain> mingw64 got a long way
21:04:00 <TrueBrain> lol, even symlinked it works .. as long as it is on the /mnt/c :) Funny :)
21:06:13 <glx> hmm I think I have to review something
21:09:03 <LANJesus> are you comparing the gcc built to the msvc build or something?
21:09:24 <LANJesus> i can't spell, and i can't not spell consistently. whew.
21:09:39 <TrueBrain> nope; just fiddling
21:10:17 <LordAro> TrueBrain: did you think any further about emailing people with flyspray reports?
21:10:33 <TrueBrain> nobody reacted in any shape or form on it
21:10:37 <TrueBrain> guess nobody cares enough :P
21:10:45 <LordAro> consider this a positive reaction
21:10:48 <TrueBrain> I am mostly wondering how far back you go :)
21:11:03 <TrueBrain> I mean .. 1 month? 1 year? All?
21:14:54 <TrueBrain> today I am just looking at bugs/patches, and marking stuff good-first-patches
21:16:03 <glx> pff determineversion.vbs diff is unreadable ;)
21:16:33 <LordAro> s/determineversion.//
21:17:27 <glx> no the diff is worse (see PR6702)
21:18:46 <glx> I guess I'll need to run it
21:19:29 <LordAro> github does have a sidebyside diff view, from memory
21:19:40 <TrueBrain> it also has it from disk
21:22:11 <Rubidium> glx: doesn't it have some feature like 'ignore spaces in diff'?
21:22:41 <glx> there are many indentation changes as some if were removed
21:23:04 <Rubidium> glx: yes, but the tools I work with at work have that function
21:23:44 <frosch123> "?w=1" ignores indentation changes
21:24:35 <frosch123> also no idea how to fix the commit_msg hook
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21:25:11 <frosch123> git has like 20 methods to remove stuff from the commit message after it was edited, and the hook gets it before it does that :/
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21:30:36 <glx> I would close it immediatly too
21:31:25 <andythenorth> I would approve it :P
21:31:49 <glx> and that's why you don't have any rights ;)
21:32:19 <andythenorth> so can GS (squirrel) fetch JSON into OpenTTD from a webservice?
21:32:49 <glx> I think we decided to not do that
21:33:09 <TrueBrain> something something sandbox
21:33:30 * andythenorth thinking about GS industry again
21:33:30 <TrueBrain> the only way I can see that work, is if there is a whitelist of URLs :)
21:33:42 <andythenorth> and problem is that there is no way for GS to understand the newgrf
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21:34:32 <andythenorth> not sure how a JSON web-service solves that :P
21:34:43 <andythenorth> I got side-tracked by how we could teach GS about specific newgrfs
21:36:19 <TrueBrain> I still think about currencies :D
21:39:40 <TrueBrain> okay, NO_DEBUG_MESSAGES is weird
21:39:51 <TrueBrain> well, debug_desync_level is weird
21:40:20 <glx> hmm I think my mingw setup is outdated
21:40:54 <LordAro> someone should redo the mingw tutorial for msys2
21:41:01 <LordAro> it's quite out of date at this point
21:41:39 <glx> oh or someone did weird thing in config.lib recently ;)
21:42:07 <LordAro> it shouldn't have broken anything...
21:42:26 <LordAro> does mingw not have realpath or- oh.
21:42:59 <Rubidium> andythenorth: as the Germans would say: jein ;) Via the admin port you can send and receive JSON
21:43:27 <andythenorth> it's not essential, a GS could ship with data baked in about newgrfs
21:43:35 <andythenorth> just seems a bit anti-maintenance
21:44:11 <LordAro> glx: even a lack of a no-op thing is surprising
21:44:25 <TrueBrain> andythenorth: show a use-case where it is useful to do it, and we can talk about it :)
21:44:35 <glx> and I'm just basically trying a simple clone
21:45:33 <andythenorth> yair I have nothing right now
21:45:38 <TrueBrain> andythenorth: as there might be more than one way to get where you want to go :)
21:45:47 <andythenorth> get JSON from bananas :P
21:45:57 <andythenorth> not even sure it's JSON that's needed
21:46:02 <TrueBrain> you have a goal in mind
21:46:06 <andythenorth> what was the problem again? o_O
21:46:06 <TrueBrain> that is more important than the technical solution
21:46:31 <LordAro> glx: replacing the config.lib line with compiler=$1 should do the trick temporarily
21:46:48 <LordAro> i guess a proper fix needs an if
21:47:49 <LordAro> is there a "proper" way to mention hashes in commit messages?
21:48:49 <LordAro> i know the github way, but is there an openttd way? :p
21:49:23 <glx> somehow -Fix (hash): blah
21:51:26 <frosch123> what would have been the github way? :p
21:52:12 <TrueBrain> do we want the GitHub notifications in this channel?
21:52:23 <glx> we used to have (rXXX) and not rXXX ;)
21:52:57 <TrueBrain> I keep forgetting to join that channel
21:53:17 <TrueBrain> owh, the +n was the issue
21:53:30 <andythenorth> is dorpsgek updated for commits o_O
21:54:07 <glx> hmm who removed +m in notice ?
21:54:17 <TrueBrain> it is required for the notice to work
21:54:45 <TrueBrain> the longer I look at this, the more likely it is we need our own bot to talk to GitHub :P
21:54:50 <TrueBrain> but that is something for a rainy day
21:54:50 <glx> let's hope the topic will be enough ;)
21:55:48 <LordAro> TrueBrain: i'd like it in this channel, fwiw
21:56:08 <TrueBrain> make a GitHub bot :D
21:56:22 <LordAro> probably just merge to master notifications though (i've not looked at what it's doing currently)
21:56:30 <LordAro> TrueBrain: make a supybot plugin!
21:56:53 <TrueBrain> I am making amazing patches
21:56:54 <Wolf01> Make a Bjarni bot with github support?
21:57:00 <TrueBrain> like not running Perf constantly if you dont care about the result ..
21:57:58 <frosch123> i made another PR for the hooks
21:58:23 <frosch123> though updating the server is not that important this time
21:58:29 <frosch123> it's more a client-side annoyance
22:00:22 <frosch123> LordAro: train samu to repost everything from .notice in this channel
22:00:32 <TrueBrain> it shows the 2 files annoyingly
22:01:40 <TrueBrain> frosch123: PR fine by me; minor Python knowledge-thingy, but meh :)
22:02:42 <TrueBrain> ugh, YAPF is full with performance measurements that are never used
22:03:24 <andythenorth> are you patching to remove NPF and original pathfinder?
22:03:44 <andythenorth> also smooth economy
22:03:48 <andythenorth> and one kind of signals
22:03:59 <LordAro> andythenorth: keep or delete? :p
22:04:29 <TrueBrain> YAPF is most likely very well done, but the code is near impossible to read and understand
22:04:46 <andythenorth> it's a game not an OS, we don't have to preserve legacy APIs forever :P
22:06:05 <frosch123> TypeError: endswith first arg must be str or a tuple of str, not list
22:06:29 <frosch123> let's check the docs whether tuple is needed or whether it is something else
22:06:57 <TrueBrain> I never understood why it doesn't support any iterable
22:07:37 <TrueBrain> and another issue closed!
22:08:53 <TrueBrain> ssllllooowwwww going
22:09:14 <andythenorth> just 178 to go :)
22:09:26 <andythenorth> I have to draw about same number of trains for my grf eh
22:09:27 <TrueBrain> I dont see you helping with the number :P
22:09:43 <glx> seems I haven't tried to run configure for a long time, it can't find zlib on my system
22:09:44 <andythenorth> I have drawn 10 trains :P
22:10:01 <andythenorth> ok let's look in issues
22:10:53 <glx> but it's ok, thanks to libpng :)
22:11:00 <LordAro> TrueBrain: interestingly, one of your commits is by Truebrain, the other is some guy caled Patric Stout
22:11:09 <TrueBrain> LordAro: Squash vs Rebase
22:11:18 <andythenorth> is this just usual OS X OOM?
22:11:23 <LordAro> TrueBrain: looks light one is truelight, the other is truebrain (@openttd.org)
22:11:30 <TrueBrain> #6425 .. do we want to keep tickets like this around?
22:12:06 <andythenorth> meh crash reports aren't for me :P
22:12:16 <TrueBrain> tnx LordAro; I picked a really old CC
22:12:27 <TrueBrain> let me force push a fix for that :D
22:13:22 <TrueBrain> I will now push everything as "Patric Stout" <truebrain@openttd.org>, just to make youhappy :)
22:13:52 <TrueBrain> back to weird tickets .. do we want to keep endless "enhancement" tickets?
22:14:20 <andythenorth> let's find and close 10 or so
22:14:36 <TrueBrain> closed #6425 with the most honest comment
22:14:53 <TrueBrain> #6677 needs looking into tbh
22:15:05 <TrueBrain> marked it as "investigation"
22:15:30 <andythenorth> FFWD doesn't work, hasn't for ages, on some platforms
22:15:36 <andythenorth> fix is to turn off full animation
22:15:41 <andythenorth> but OP can't understand what I mean
22:15:48 <TrueBrain> so possibly we can detect FF is not really doing anything, and advise that?
22:16:03 <andythenorth> or people should use older computers
22:16:52 <andythenorth> do we want 200 feature requests?
22:17:01 <TrueBrain> some are really sane
22:17:23 <TrueBrain> I was thinking we need an "approved" label or something
22:17:24 <andythenorth> that issue is never getting closed
22:17:47 <TrueBrain> why is that never getting resolved?
22:17:54 <TrueBrain> you can combine train-stations etc
22:17:56 <andythenorth> that specific ticket will never be closed
22:18:03 <andythenorth> if someone does it, they'll just do it
22:18:08 <andythenorth> not discuss it on the ticket
22:18:22 <andythenorth> we have rule at work about closeable tickets
22:18:25 <TrueBrain> you need some issues to give people who want to make stuff ideas
22:18:29 <andythenorth> if it's not winnable, we invalidate
22:18:39 <TrueBrain> it is a clear description, it is actionable
22:18:54 <andythenorth> can we have label that isn't enhancement?
22:19:02 <andythenorth> they're not enhancements
22:19:07 <TrueBrain> what would you call them?
22:19:16 <andythenorth> they're requests for other people to spend a shit ton of free time on stuff
22:19:25 <TrueBrain> isnt that an enhancement? :)
22:19:30 <andythenorth> enhancement is what customers get to ask for
22:19:35 <TrueBrain> I would even consider this a bug, tbh
22:19:43 <TrueBrain> maybe a bad example :D
22:19:52 <TrueBrain> can you glue bus stations together?
22:19:58 <andythenorth> I picked a deliberately bad ticket to discuss :P
22:20:24 <andythenorth> what is purpose of these tickets?
22:20:33 <andythenorth> (1) to give devs ideas to work on?
22:20:40 <andythenorth> (2) to stop users spamming endless same issue?
22:20:55 <glx> I forgot how slow it was to build with mingw
22:21:18 <TrueBrain> glx: I have it the other way around
22:21:21 <TrueBrain> andythenorth: let me check one thing
22:22:07 <TrueBrain> this issue I would consider a bug; you can do it with bus stations, train stations, etc
22:22:19 <TrueBrain> I have a hard time wrapping my head around that
22:22:22 <glx> file access on windows are slow, I guess MSVC doesn't use fopen but directly windows API
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22:22:39 <andythenorth> TrueBrain: potato / potato
22:22:47 <andythenorth> I totally want to be able to join docks
22:22:57 <andythenorth> I just don't know if it's a bug
22:23:05 <andythenorth> there's no spec that says docks should join
22:23:10 <andythenorth> [there's no spec]
22:23:19 <TrueBrain> okay, how I see issues in GitHub, is both for bugs (duh :D)
22:23:23 <andythenorth> I am fine to leave it
22:23:26 <TrueBrain> and with small things people can pick up
22:23:35 <andythenorth> I just worry that leaving the big tickets leads to requests for a roadmap
22:23:36 <TrueBrain> big ideas have no place there
22:23:42 <andythenorth> I fucking hate roadmaps
22:23:46 <TrueBrain> what I do a lot with other projects, to just see if I can do something
22:24:01 <TrueBrain> I fully agree that big tickets should not be in the issue tracker
22:24:09 <andythenorth> I should make an app for ideas :P
22:24:17 <LordAro> andythenorth: ah, but GH has roadmaps!
22:24:17 <TrueBrain> I also think that tickets we leave, should be accepted as: if someone makes a patch, we accept it
22:24:22 <LordAro> or something trello-like, anyway
22:24:26 <TrueBrain> no takie-backs on: no, we dont want this after all
22:24:40 <LordAro> someone should create a 1.9 milestone ;)
22:24:47 <LordAro> and a 1.8 milestone, tbh
22:24:57 <TrueBrain> so, are 2 docks for 1 station sane? :)
22:25:27 <TrueBrain> and what label to assign it if we accept we like it, so we know which we still dont know :P
22:25:56 <TrueBrain> I renamed the current label to "enhancement-under-review"
22:26:15 <andythenorth> 'idea' saves space :D
22:26:21 <TrueBrain> so it is clear we still need action n that
22:26:52 <andythenorth> 'idea', 'idea-rejected'
22:27:10 <TrueBrain> and idea-under-review?
22:27:32 <TrueBrain> I would really like to know if it is an idea that has been talked about honestly
22:27:36 <andythenorth> it's valid until we kill it
22:27:48 <TrueBrain> well, GitHub always calls these 'enhancements'
22:27:48 <andythenorth> we can learn as we go
22:27:51 <TrueBrain> maybe we should keep that
22:27:58 <andythenorth> ok I fight that another day
22:28:04 <andythenorth> let's achieve some closing
22:28:06 <TrueBrain> I like doing things like others did :D
22:28:53 <TrueBrain> I would like to keep the "enhancement under review" for the FlySpray imported ones :D
22:29:04 <TrueBrain> backlogs are annoying :P
22:29:54 <andythenorth> is it literally just a version pin change or something?
22:29:55 <TrueBrain> LordAro: another day :)
22:30:06 <TrueBrain> there are also API changes
22:30:11 <TrueBrain> not sure if they break from 52 to 55
22:30:26 <glx> ok make -j3 was a bad idea
22:30:53 <TrueBrain> owh, OpenTTD doesn't produce Xenial binaries
22:30:56 <TrueBrain> that is a bit of a shame
22:30:58 <LordAro> TrueBrain: hence all the pango stuff
22:32:15 <TrueBrain> ugh @ patch; newline or whitespace issues
22:32:39 <andythenorth> I had a bonfire of old patches in 2017
22:32:42 <andythenorth> now we should have another one
22:32:49 <andythenorth> they're not happening, mostly
22:33:23 <TrueBrain> its a bit silly you cannot remap space; but .. yeah
22:33:39 <TrueBrain> andythenorth: you keep talking, I do the bookkeeping? :)
22:34:11 <andythenorth> I book-keeped 500 last year :D
22:34:18 <TrueBrain> that is why I suggest I do it :)
22:34:40 <andythenorth> bbut it might bbe a horrible implementation
22:35:44 <TrueBrain> I am still reading 6053 :D
22:36:34 <TrueBrain> supporting SDL2 is really needed tbh
22:37:05 * LordAro wonders whether "icu" should be a milestone, rather than an issue label
22:37:29 <TrueBrain> LordAro: only if you actively work on it :)
22:37:36 <TrueBrain> and it is more a Project, tb
22:37:39 <andythenorth> it all gets a bit project-managed eh
22:37:41 <frosch123> "you have received 14 new messages" :p
22:37:46 <andythenorth> it's not work work
22:37:59 <TrueBrain> so close 6004? (too much blabla for me)
22:38:07 <LordAro> TrueBrain: careful now, i might actually do it
22:38:23 <TrueBrain> LordAro: so you keep saying ...... ;)
22:39:26 <TrueBrain> that is a typical: too large to keep around
22:40:06 <TrueBrain> andythenorth: 6686 .. why cant you build signals (dragging) from a crossing?
22:40:08 <TrueBrain> sounds really weird?
22:40:18 <andythenorth> can't have signals on a crossing eh
22:40:23 <TrueBrain> but if you dragggggggg
22:40:47 <andythenorth> not a valid starting tile for signals
22:40:51 <TrueBrain> ack; better message it is
22:41:03 <andythenorth> signals are already more awesome than they need to be :P
22:41:10 <andythenorth> no more enhancements
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22:43:16 <TrueBrain> I am very good at: not part of roadmap, byebye
22:44:23 <supermop_work> i've had that problem
22:44:39 <andythenorth> find vehicles, mass-sell
22:45:55 <TrueBrain> closed #5573; seems a lot of UI stuff for a very limited usecase
22:46:15 <andythenorth> did we get 10 yet?
22:49:11 <TrueBrain> andythenorth: perfect ticket (5244) for a newcommer
22:52:43 <andythenorth> ok /me looks for more
22:53:28 <andythenorth> there is enough spec to make fun newgrfs
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22:55:27 <TrueBrain> LordAro: I made a project for Pango :P
22:55:35 <TrueBrain> put 5 tickets in there which hopefully are solved by moving to Pango
22:55:39 <TrueBrain> I would love to know if that is not the case
22:55:51 <TrueBrain> (you can move it to "to be fixed" if you thing it is solved by Pango too :)
22:55:53 <andythenorth> ^ there are loads of tickets about using subtype refits as 'livery'
22:55:59 <andythenorth> as though livery is a supported thing
22:56:24 <TrueBrain> I know nothing about NewGRF, so I cannot say anything sane about this
22:56:56 <andythenorth> you could learn :D
22:57:14 <TrueBrain> but .. that is not happening in the next minute :D
22:58:57 <andythenorth> multi-screen again
22:59:34 <TrueBrain> accepted #6651 in the meantime
23:00:18 <TrueBrain> andythenorth: closed #4637
23:00:21 <TrueBrain> useless to keep these requests around
23:00:24 <TrueBrain> would be lovely to have it
23:00:28 <TrueBrain> but ... as do many things :)
23:01:03 <andythenorth> per 20 requests, pick 1
23:01:09 <andythenorth> and it has a 10% chance of being shipped
23:01:13 <andythenorth> those are the ratios I think
23:01:26 <TrueBrain> its why you have roadmaps normally
23:01:32 <TrueBrain> and wish-lists with upvoting
23:01:39 <TrueBrain> I like upvoting systems
23:01:46 <TrueBrain> but it has to be done proper
23:01:51 <TrueBrain> but okay, GIVE ME ANOTHER TICKET :)
23:01:52 <andythenorth> it's only good when you pay developers
23:02:00 <andythenorth> no BOSS, no outcome from upvotes
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23:04:44 <TrueBrain> sorry, still at 3799
23:05:11 <TrueBrain> the first suggestion frosch123 says only works indeed if you also show it to the human (no cheating by the AI!)
23:06:43 <__ln__> was it worth the trouble importing old tickets if everything can be closed?
23:06:59 <TrueBrain> I am at 3164 now andythenorth :D
23:07:11 <TrueBrain> owh, LordAro just has to attach his patch
23:07:14 <TrueBrain> about time .. 10 years almost
23:07:19 <andythenorth> ^ 3977 is batshit
23:07:21 <LordAro> __ln__: all the closed tickets were imported as well
23:07:25 <andythenorth> just learn the fricking game
23:07:29 <andythenorth> no history, it's not a browser
23:08:31 <TrueBrain> LordAro: andythenorth said just that
23:08:33 <TrueBrain> andythenorth: closed 3977
23:09:02 <TrueBrain> 15 tickets in total down
23:09:19 <TrueBrain> 167 enhancements to evaluate :)
23:09:37 <andythenorth> it's not a big deal
23:09:46 <andythenorth> and it's not been done in 8 years
23:10:04 <TrueBrain> these kind of things ... are so small
23:10:09 <TrueBrain> lovely to start learning the code with
23:10:27 <TrueBrain> it is like .. 10 lines of code :)
23:10:45 <TrueBrain> already 21 small things people can do :)
23:11:23 <andythenorth> I had an idea for UI-is-content
23:11:29 <andythenorth> quite a lot of UI requests
23:11:36 <andythenorth> just make it all scriptable
23:11:41 <LordAro> think i've still got the branch somewhere..
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23:12:19 <andythenorth> shitloads of newgrf ponies
23:12:37 <Wolf01> Oh, TB has top down <3 avatar on github :D
23:13:28 <andythenorth> ^ might be outdated now?
23:13:29 <TrueBrain> andythenorth: still at 4725
23:13:36 <andythenorth> paddle faster ;D
23:13:37 <TrueBrain> I like the idea of being more flexible in your loan
23:13:43 <TrueBrain> but .. via console is bullshit
23:13:47 <TrueBrain> and the UI suggestion is bad
23:13:57 <TrueBrain> lets put a pin in thatone
23:14:56 <TrueBrain> 5471, no clue; not enough info
23:16:37 <TrueBrain> accepted 5326; patch and everything .. I mean ..
23:17:38 <TrueBrain> 5078 is nice to have, and should be simple .. patch is nearly there
23:17:40 <andythenorth> can't find more to invalidate
23:17:58 <TrueBrain> *jumps to last page*
23:18:11 <andythenorth> it's all valid issues or newgrf ponies
23:18:15 <TrueBrain> #1003, going to close it
23:19:15 <TrueBrain> so difficult .. the ideas are good, but ...
23:19:35 <TrueBrain> andythenorth: #1423 .. useful?
23:20:00 <andythenorth> I would just draw my industry differently
23:20:06 <andythenorth> but I am not george
23:20:19 <__ln__> i think six years ago frosch has closed 5209 without consulting an expert
23:20:32 <andythenorth> 1423 hasn't been done in 11 years
23:21:11 <TrueBrain> he commented on it 10 years later
23:21:13 <andythenorth> __ln__: what was the expert's name? o_O
23:21:16 <TrueBrain> seems he still cares
23:21:25 <andythenorth> I asked him what I could close
23:21:33 <andythenorth> 5209 was not on it :P
23:21:39 <andythenorth> oops 1423 / 5209 /s
23:21:56 <TrueBrain> it really makes me wonder how to track these nice and good ideas
23:22:06 <TrueBrain> but sure are not going to be implemented unless someone cares
23:22:15 <TrueBrain> keeping them in the issue tracker feels odd
23:22:29 <TrueBrain> can closed tickets be in a project ...
23:23:41 <andythenorth> hmm I can't make projects
23:23:53 <TrueBrain> okay, they can go in a project
23:23:57 <__ln__> andythenorth: plenty of potential experts on this channel
23:25:26 <TrueBrain> andythenorth: you think this "Idea" project would work?
23:25:40 <andythenorth> was looking for things I could put in it
23:25:42 <TrueBrain> I am afraid it will just be a long list
23:25:51 <TrueBrain> okay, lets not do it
23:26:09 <andythenorth> 'newgrf pony list' would be a better project :P
23:26:16 <TrueBrain> sometimes life is hard
23:26:22 <TrueBrain> and good ideas get lost
23:26:28 <andythenorth> 25 newgrf labelled issues
23:27:52 <TrueBrain> marked it as such :)
23:29:17 <TrueBrain> found the right term for some tickets: needs triage
23:30:02 <andythenorth> I labelled all the 'timetables' tickets
23:33:10 <TrueBrain> meh; still needs triage
23:33:17 <TrueBrain> at least we need to check if it still happens
23:37:06 <TrueBrain> some .. take #5277 .. I love the idea (not the solution, but something similar)
23:37:11 <TrueBrain> but it is not something easy/simple/small
23:38:25 <TrueBrain> closed it .. feels sad now
23:41:31 <TrueBrain> is true for any OS; and it is annoying
23:41:42 <TrueBrain> but I would consider suggesting that you can double click a savegame :)
23:42:36 <andythenorth> why bother changing it?
23:42:49 <andythenorth> all this stuff :D
23:42:59 <andythenorth> but no multi-docks :P
23:43:14 <TrueBrain> accepted 6253 with a twist :)
23:43:53 <TrueBrain> andythenorth: yeah ... 5872 ... it felt like a simple patch. But it isn't ..
23:44:11 <TrueBrain> these things are really QoL
23:44:58 <TrueBrain> the feedback is good; the implementation sucks :)
23:45:16 <TrueBrain> especially if you store it on a slow medium
23:46:51 <TrueBrain> enough for today :D
23:46:55 <TrueBrain> andythenorth: this is difficult :D
23:47:15 <TrueBrain> I also dont like there are a lot of untriaged bugs
23:47:23 <TrueBrain> I might also do something about that ..
23:48:25 <LordAro> someone should make an issue
23:48:29 <TrueBrain> also multi-airport tbfh
23:49:00 <peter1138> Whatever happened to that head-to-head game mode?
23:49:12 <TrueBrain> still one of the coolest ways to do Multiplayer
23:49:25 <TrueBrain> but I first really want to clean up this issue list
23:49:34 <TrueBrain> as this is not helping anyone :D
23:50:41 <andythenorth> I couldn't clear many of the crashes
23:50:47 <andythenorth> don't understand crash logs :P
23:51:18 <TrueBrain> yeah .. they are a bitch :)
23:52:06 <TrueBrain> peter1138 even goes as far as assigning himself to bugs :D
23:54:54 <LordAro> moved since Yexo's last link
23:56:03 <peter1138> Of course, this bug doesn't occur on my machine.
23:56:14 <peter1138> And the crash.log has no backtrace because... OS X?
23:56:27 <peter1138> maybe I should go try 1.7.2
23:56:31 <TrueBrain> peter1138: the crash.log shows: out of memory
23:57:11 <LordAro> one might question quite why it's trying to allocate 3MB
23:57:29 <LordAro> guess it could be anything though
23:58:19 <LordAro> even with no newgrfs? (crashlog lists grfs, right?)
23:58:20 <TrueBrain> guess it needs a label .. all the 32bit 32bpp issues :)
23:58:53 <peter1138> Ok, so the thing that happened was pretty irrelevant.
23:59:00 <peter1138> I should not have assigned myself then :p
23:59:10 <TrueBrain> write down the above findings at least :)
23:59:46 <peter1138> Is there a 64 bit OS X build?
23:59:55 <TrueBrain> there should, as far as I am aware
continue to next day ⏵
