IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2018-04-02
⏴ go to previous day
00:03:07 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd
00:08:56 *** andythenorth has left #openttd
00:48:33 <supermop> i just can't find how i write the 'argument' for 'variables that require an argument'
00:53:11 <Supercheese> just in parentheses?
00:53:17 <Supercheese> variable_name(argument)
00:53:52 <supermop> that gives "'other_veh_curve_info' is not defined as a function."
00:54:16 <Supercheese> could be brackets then
00:55:01 <LordAro> what do you mean by "variable that requires an argument" ?
00:56:27 <supermop> maybe i am just incredibly ignorant, but it seems to me there is no explanation anywhere of how to use those
00:58:46 <supermop> Supercheese: the [ ] just gives error: Syntax error, unexpected token "["
00:58:54 <Supercheese> It should be parentheses
00:59:04 <Supercheese> switch(FEAT_OBJECTS, SELF, seagull_tile_check_switch, nearby_tile_water_class(0,0))
00:59:08 <Supercheese> in one bit of code
01:01:58 <supermop> that gets me back to "'other_veh_curve_info' is not defined as a function."
01:02:25 <supermop> for "switch (FEAT_ROADVEHS, SELF, carrier_low_mid, other_veh_curve_info(-1) ){
01:05:20 <supermop> like am i crazy? is that variable not actually even in nml?
01:06:05 <LordAro> time to go look at the source
01:06:06 <Supercheese> it might be for trains only
01:06:20 <LordAro> variables that have arguments... aren't normally called variables though
01:06:42 <Supercheese> "variables with parameter" could be a better term
01:07:08 <Supercheese> which is in fact what is used for Objects as linked above
01:07:22 <Supercheese> hurrah for inconsistent nomenclature
01:09:54 *** Thedarkb has joined #openttd
01:11:36 *** Mahjong1 has joined #openttd
01:20:08 <supermop> i guess i can try using var[0x62, etc] instead
01:25:16 *** Supercheese has joined #openttd
01:37:26 <Thedarkb> Who made the 2cc pack?
01:45:30 <supermop> many people over many years, many of whom are no longer active
01:49:03 <supermop> the forum topic would say
01:50:50 <supermop> ooops: Unrecognized identifier 'PALETTE_CC_DARK_ORANGE' encountered
01:51:01 <supermop> too bad there is no dark orange
01:52:07 <supermop> 'PALETTE_CC_PALE_BROWN'
01:52:36 <supermop> the cc brown is already pretty pale, wonder what pale brown would be
01:53:35 <Thedarkb> Since I last used it, they added a bunch of trains from my homeland.
01:53:46 <supermop> "'PALETTE_CC_LIGHT_WHITE"
01:55:12 <Thedarkb> But they have the reliability of the 001 class up way too high
01:55:24 <Thedarkb> It's at 83% on my game and it should really be 20%
01:55:40 <Supercheese> >playing with breakdowns enabled
01:55:45 <Thedarkb> They used military surplus marine engines and they fell apart in use.
01:55:46 <Supercheese> unless it's that improved breakdowns patch
01:55:54 <Thedarkb> Nah, I don't personally on my server.
01:55:58 <Thedarkb> Just an observation.
01:56:11 <supermop> ok day_of_year is not a real thing
01:56:19 <Supercheese> yeah, reliability is rarely balanced by authors, I'd expect
01:56:35 <Thedarkb> I'd like to see some other Irish trains added.
01:56:47 <Thedarkb> The 071 class is kind of iconic.
01:57:35 <Eddi|zuHause> supermop: so i think i found your problem
01:57:44 <Eddi|zuHause> it's not "curve_info"
01:57:48 <Eddi|zuHause> it's "curv_info"
01:58:16 <Thedarkb> I can't really do pixel art though so it's not going to happen.
02:00:14 <supermop> Eddi|zuHause: holy shit
02:03:28 <supermop> i knew i was being dumb, but i am surprised at just how dumb
02:03:58 <supermop> though to be fair, the name of that variable is so long, why bother saving the e
02:04:22 <Eddi|zuHause> supposedly consistency with the already existing variables
02:04:42 <Eddi|zuHause> dunno who thought this up in the first place
02:05:29 <supermop> well pikka doesn't sleep that much
02:08:24 <Pikka> also, no inconsistency in variable names in nfo ;)
02:09:37 <Supercheese> so inscrutable rather than inconsistent
02:10:48 <Eddi|zuHause> so the original curv_info variables date very very early in nml history
02:11:16 <Eddi|zuHause> commit by yexo, april 2010
02:12:56 <Eddi|zuHause> also, it's not actually an abbreviation of "curve", but "curvature"
02:23:24 <jinks> Mikro ist mal wieder sehr leise... ca. 50% der Musik
05:40:57 *** Supercheese has joined #openttd
08:28:00 *** Wacko1976 has joined #openttd
08:33:42 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd
08:35:59 <andythenorth> Pikka: solved it all? o_O
08:38:17 <Pikka> road hogs are really expensive. :P the poor ai struggles.
08:52:31 <andythenorth> I thought I made it too cheap
08:53:02 <andythenorth> I have costs on 'medium' eh
09:26:45 <andythenorth> Pikka: expensive to run, or expensive to buy?
09:31:39 <Pikka> to buy, mostly. but it's being conservative about money reserves, I can loosen it up a bit
09:43:53 <andythenorth> compared to Horse, Hog is expensive to buy
09:44:03 <andythenorth> train will repay within 1-2 years on a good route
09:44:21 <andythenorth> trucks are 5-10 years
10:09:58 *** Progman has joined #openttd
10:55:11 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: only if you get payment from the respective brand
11:27:57 <andythenorth> 8 year old wants ship tunnels
11:28:02 <andythenorth> he has made an extensive pitch
11:29:26 <Pikka> aircraft tunnels, doesn't it
11:31:30 <andythenorth> through mountains though
11:40:54 *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd
11:45:09 *** gelignite has joined #openttd
11:46:16 *** frosch123 has joined #openttd
12:04:31 *** Wormnest has joined #openttd
12:18:16 <TrueBrain> hmm ... how do I get a graphics set via the command line for regression check ...
12:21:02 <TrueBrain> the GUI can, but you can't via command line?
12:21:05 <TrueBrain> what is this bullshit? :P
12:21:47 <TrueBrain> that means that I also have to figure out both the URL and the place to wget it to
12:21:57 <TrueBrain> not ideal for a Docker regression-checker :)
12:22:49 <TrueBrain> and installing the openttd-opengfx via Debian is not sufficient ... lol
12:23:42 <TrueBrain> where does it expect this to be ..
12:24:39 <TrueBrain> baseset is now in /usr/share/games/openttd
12:27:23 <TrueBrain> I always found it weird that the game depends on gfx files in order to run
12:29:39 <frosch123> the win installer has some openttd.org address for download
12:30:31 <frosch123> but i remember that something also used to wget nogfx
12:31:41 <TrueBrain> why is that tar not something official? :)
12:31:48 <TrueBrain> but I was also puzzled where I should put that file
12:31:57 <TrueBrain> nothing really helped me in any indication wher eI could put it ..
12:32:02 <TrueBrain> been a while since I knew :P
12:32:21 <TrueBrain> as it says: /usr/share
12:32:26 <TrueBrain> but by default, prefix is /usr/local
12:33:09 <TrueBrain> I would think that for dedicated servers, you could also have a command-line option that auto-downloads a gfx
12:33:34 <frosch123> i would rather get rid of the stupid gfx requirement :)
12:33:49 <TrueBrain> works for me as well :)
12:34:01 <TrueBrain> either way, I now just installed openttd-opengfx from debian-stretch
12:34:06 <TrueBrain> and set the prefix-dir to /usr
12:34:10 <TrueBrain> now regression works
12:36:45 <TrueBrain> easiest way to get rid of it might be to include that above tar in the repo :P
12:37:16 <TrueBrain> btw, frosch123, something for another day, but after OpenTTD moves to github, we also have to move stuff like grfcodec, etc etc (the extra folder)
12:37:20 <TrueBrain> that is not in scope for me atm
12:37:27 <TrueBrain> (not sure if I already said that :P)
12:39:53 <TrueBrain> okay, all linux dockers seem to work; later today I hope to tackle OSX dockers ..
12:45:20 <andythenorth> nice TrueBrain :)
12:45:49 <TrueBrain> I also replaced zesty with something with an a
12:46:26 <LordAro> if you wait a few days, you'll be able to use 18.04 LTS
12:46:48 <TrueBrain> yeah ... we just add that when it gets there :)
12:46:54 <TrueBrain> its as easy as adding an entry to Makefile :)
12:47:28 <TrueBrain> LINUX_RELEASE_TARGETS += ubuntu-<whatever>-amd64 ubuntu-<whatever>-i386
12:47:55 <TrueBrain> owh, and for autobuilds, you need to add the tag in the docker hub account ..
12:48:13 <TrueBrain> still not sure if I want to use their autobuild .. it is nice, but another place to maintain stuff ..
12:48:27 <andythenorth> how can I draw a neutral dock?
12:48:35 <andythenorth> the CHIPS one is asphalt / concrete
12:48:42 <andythenorth> and has to be used with concrete station tiles
12:48:48 <frosch123> what makes a dock neutral?
12:49:27 <frosch123> ask wolf to return venecia then
12:49:39 <andythenorth> frosch123: looks good with all CHIPS station tiles
12:49:48 <andythenorth> and all FIRS harbour industries
12:50:21 <frosch123> Wolf01: austria needs a port
12:51:05 <LordAro> TrueBrain: Switzerland, surely?
12:51:24 <LordAro> TrueBrain: what does autobuild entail?
12:52:44 <TrueBrain> LordAro: nah, that would be to political correct
12:52:54 <TrueBrain> hub.docker can autobuild a GitHub repo into Docker images
12:52:59 <TrueBrain> so you point it to a repo with a Dockerfile
12:53:02 <TrueBrain> when-ever you push there
12:53:05 <TrueBrain> he builds a new image
12:53:30 <TrueBrain> but I guess I can just make our Bamboo do the same .. gives a bit more flexibility I guess
12:53:51 <andythenorth> maybe time for newgrf docks?
12:53:53 <TrueBrain> their autobuild also cannot do Windows ..
12:54:08 <TrueBrain> *shrug* .. not sure .. lets first get the GH migration done :)
12:59:03 <TrueBrain> Debian is cool .. they are creating 'slim' images for Docker .. removing shit you most likely won't be needing
12:59:29 <TrueBrain> I now have images < 200 MiB that can build OpenTTD
12:59:33 <TrueBrain> including all main dependencies
13:00:01 <TrueBrain> well, more like 300 MiB
13:00:07 <TrueBrain> the ubuntu, in contrast, are 700 MiB
13:03:04 <TrueBrain> that stupid Makefile requirements that it needs tabs ... it keeps screwing me over
13:10:26 *** FLHerne has joined #openttd
13:15:10 <LordAro> TrueBrain: tabs 4 lyfe
13:43:02 <andythenorth> Pikka: is it wagon speed limits? or not?
13:44:16 <Pikka> it's "realism", and it makes the fastest express engines not the ideal choice for literally everything
13:46:33 <Pikka> when I get around to doing industries again, I think I'll try an experimental cargo payment setting which ignores time in transit, see if that improves the game
13:47:02 <Pikka> TTD's time/distance payment model is dumb. faster vehicles already have an advantage in that they can make more trips, they don't need to be paid more too.
13:49:38 * andythenorth double tracks some canals
13:53:49 <andythenorth> should I random cabeese?
13:55:24 <frosch123> add cabbage as cargo
13:56:02 <andythenorth> 'Veg' is missing mostly from FIRS
13:57:06 <andythenorth> not sure how useful random is :P
13:58:07 <andythenorth> ha ha also I deleted all the code for random graphical variants :D
14:00:30 <Pikka> brakevans kind of feel like the one thing that should be fairly consistent
14:00:47 <Pikka> unless you want to do different graphics per company, which is real BAD FEATURES
14:01:45 <andythenorth> I have 2 to choose from anyway
14:01:54 <andythenorth> maybe random sprites are blah
14:30:37 *** Stimrol has joined #openttd
14:36:15 <Thedarkb-X40> I was going to build an OpenTTD package for TinyCore Linux but I couldn't get it to cooperate with Xvesa
14:37:01 <Thedarkb-X40> My TinyCore machine has no Linux graphics drivers so sacrifices must be made.
14:56:16 <Pikka> andythenorth, your courier trucks are confusing my AI
14:56:54 <Pikka> different capacities for different cargos :)
14:57:29 <andythenorth> is proper no? :P
14:57:47 <andythenorth> can I provide any hint? o_O
15:02:03 *** chomwitt has joined #openttd
15:02:49 <Pikka> well, I could give it a hint... maybe make it prefer vehicles which carry goods by default
15:02:56 <Pikka> when it's looking for a big goods truck
15:06:01 <andythenorth> if default cargo is mail? o_O
15:10:12 <Pikka> there we go, Rattlebrooks away
15:16:18 <Wolf01> andythenorth: do you how to make a hinge which allow an active axle to pass with an angle >90°?
15:20:35 <andythenorth> Wolf01: bevel gears
15:22:28 <andythenorth> I need non-electric trams in my game
15:23:01 <Wolf01> Draw tem without pantograph
15:24:04 <andythenorth> I need to hide the catenary
15:24:16 <andythenorth> maybe I could patch to not show catenary? o_O
15:25:45 <Wolf01> Mmmh, double elbow... I will kill myself trying to get it together, but it might work
15:27:05 <andythenorth> still making robot arms?
15:58:13 <Wolf01> Double elbow won't work
16:15:11 <andythenorth> cargo loading sprites :(
16:48:20 *** gelignite has joined #openttd
17:16:16 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd
18:04:17 *** Thedarkb has joined #openttd
19:21:08 *** FLHerne has joined #openttd
19:23:09 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd
19:58:57 <Thedarkb> I'm not as good on FIRS as I'd like to be.
20:08:56 <LordAro> people actually play with firs?
20:14:36 <Thedarkb> What's wrong with FIRS
20:14:44 <Thedarkb> I used to love Heart of Darkness.
20:19:14 <Thedarkb> LordAro, What industry replacement do you recommend?
20:36:55 <LordAro> i haven't played in ages
21:39:13 <Wolf01> So, andythenorth: I think I've finished the robotic arm. Even without motors everywhere (there's only one motor at the base) and trying to keep it light as possible it weights a lot and doesn't work really well :(
22:06:50 *** FLHerne has joined #openttd
22:10:55 *** circ-user-ELLc8 has joined #openttd
22:11:08 *** circ-user-ELLc8 is now known as supermop_work
22:19:03 <Thedarkb> Why do previously profitable routes become unprofitable?
22:20:54 <andythenorth> if inflation is on, turn it off
22:21:22 *** chomwitt has joined #openttd
22:51:56 <Pikka> Chris Sawyer, master of BAD FEATURES
23:04:31 *** supermop_work_ has joined #openttd
23:54:09 <Thedarkb-X40> Yeah I'll turn off inflation
23:56:37 <supermop_work_> still think it would be worth 'fixing' inflation somehow, or making it controllable by GS or new grf
23:57:27 <supermop_work_> even if revenue and costs scale 1:1, it would at least reduce the real value of giant cash piles
continue to next day ⏵
