IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2018-03-26
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04:05:25 <supermop> Eddi|zuHause: is lack of motivation to draw one of the features of CETS?
04:06:40 <Eddi|zuHause> well i never really had the intention to draw anything. oberhümer drew a few of the prussian engines, but that also dissipated...
04:12:34 <supermop> always sounded like the scope was very large for that set
04:16:52 <supermop> im stalling because i don't want to make a new 9/8 template
04:42:12 <Eddi|zuHause> well, i dabbled a bit in autogenerating/composing some graphics, but i ended being distracted/unmotivated to do really anything at all
04:42:46 <Eddi|zuHause> for reason i'm not really willing to go into here
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04:46:18 <supermop> so thoroughly indoctrinated here - giving notice to quit my job, and i am almost beside myself with regret and guilty feelings
04:47:06 <supermop> even though i find my employer incompetent and frustrating, and continued employment with him to be a professional liability
04:48:20 <supermop> all this shame for breaking a capitalist's heart, and i think of myself and pretty far left
04:48:38 <supermop> but that's american (and new york) work culture for you
04:51:33 <Eddi|zuHause> well my new boss wanted to impose some strict working hours, or else... and i said "then i choose else"
04:52:28 <Eddi|zuHause> so now i'm on some kind of irregular consulting contract with him, instead of full-time
04:54:16 <supermop> i am full time with this guy, but because he is so disorganized
04:54:33 <supermop> it is hourly and irregular,
04:55:08 <supermop> i generally work 40-45 hours a week, nice that its hourly, but the junior employees will get called off all the time when money is short
04:55:16 <supermop> and not work for a week or two
04:55:47 <supermop> no contract, benefits or health insurance for any of us, so i am lucky i have it through my wife
04:56:11 <supermop> the us system for insurance through job is absurd
04:56:28 <supermop> even if you get good insurance, you are then bound to that employer
04:57:10 <glx> and the medical costs are insane too
04:57:24 <supermop> new job i am taking pay is actually slightly less, but i will have a real contract, and the company has a real staff of other people with steady jobs
04:57:40 <supermop> instead of some weeks only me
04:59:12 <Eddi|zuHause> i've seen these numbers... for european countries you have (per capita) x amount of "private" money and y amount of "tax" money, where x is vastly smaller number, then for america you have y amount of "private" money and y amount of "tax" money.
04:59:25 <Eddi|zuHause> so not only does your system not save any tax money
04:59:41 <Eddi|zuHause> it costs almost double
04:59:55 <Eddi|zuHause> without being any better overall
05:00:26 <glx> everything cost more in their system
05:00:39 <glx> university is almost free in france
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05:02:07 <Eddi|zuHause> and they even give you money if your parents are poor
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05:02:32 <Eddi|zuHause> (or have lots of kids)
05:03:59 <supermop> Eddi|zuHause: we are stuck with a system that seemed to look kind of good in like the late 40s and then fell apart
05:04:51 <Eddi|zuHause> on the "bright" side, they're slowly taking the system apart bit by bit here...
05:05:45 <Eddi|zuHause> because "everything is better in america" and "free market" and "small government" and whatever
05:06:10 <supermop> there are a few things better in america:
05:07:02 <glx> instead unifying it creates competition between countries
05:07:09 <supermop> we have good barbecue ribs
05:07:50 <supermop> we have some good music - because our system is so broken it motivates people to make good music
05:08:00 <supermop> so we've got ribs and music
05:08:25 <Eddi|zuHause> is your music "good", or just "average enough to reach large audiences"?
05:09:30 <supermop> Eddi|zuHause: depends, but i'd say that blues, jazz, hip hop, r&b, funk and rock are all significant contributions to world culture
05:09:53 <supermop> but all were catalyzed by shitty conditions here
05:10:06 <supermop> punk i will give to UK and jamaica
05:11:52 <supermop> montauk oysters i do find better
05:12:07 <supermop> so i go 3 things that are better in america so far
05:21:32 <Eddi|zuHause> so, a) i have no interest in oysters, and b) i see that all "your" "good" music is actually by people you forcefully imported and exploited.
05:23:33 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't see how "look, slavery wasn't all bad, we got good music out of it" is ever a good sentence to say
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15:41:54 <supermop_work> Eddi|zuHause: not a sentence i said
15:42:50 <supermop_work> also i think you may have missed that we were arguing the same point
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18:06:51 <supermop_work> i guess as good as any day
18:07:05 <DorpsGek> andythenorth: frosch123 was last seen in #openttd 20 hours, 20 minutes, and 33 seconds ago: <frosch123> i have not touched windows for 10 years, i have no idea why people use it for development at all
18:10:05 <andythenorth> 2 pikkas in a row
18:10:13 <andythenorth> what's up Pikka? :)
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18:13:10 <Pikka> right now, intermodal container cars: "realistic" or just boring?
18:13:29 <andythenorth> that's rather coincidental
18:13:37 <andythenorth> I am working on same thing in UKRS 3
18:13:50 <andythenorth> literally have the buy menu open for them :P
18:14:06 <andythenorth> UKRS 3 = Iron Horse 2 :P
18:14:38 <andythenorth> what was the question? o_O
18:15:53 <Pikka> deciding whether to include them at all in notUKRS 3...
18:16:40 <andythenorth> I am doing them in Horse 2
18:16:52 <andythenorth> but they're identical to box cars, except graphics
18:16:57 <andythenorth> same capacity, speed, refit
18:17:08 <andythenorth> horse is mostly about 'pick sprites you like'
18:17:35 <Pikka> well that's what I'm thinking... but in that case, why include them unless they're graphically interesting, which theyr're not? :P
18:18:17 <Pikka> I suppose some people might like container trains.
18:19:09 <andythenorth> I like the change between empty / full
18:19:15 <andythenorth> and I can randomise the container colours
18:19:43 <andythenorth> I don't bother with any justification for wagon types except 'looks nice' and 'looks different to other types'
18:19:54 <andythenorth> engines....have to fit a role
18:20:11 <Pikka> yes... speaking of which
18:20:35 <Pikka> was no MUs except "metro" in IH a design choice?
18:21:18 <andythenorth> for normal trains, I prefer making trains of single unit railcars,
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18:21:46 <andythenorth> but I have added some fast electric things, 2-unit 16/8
18:22:01 <andythenorth> they will have BAD FEATURES to make power cars and coaches when combined
18:22:43 <andythenorth> FAD BEACHES are compulsory
18:23:22 <andythenorth> hmm web page reveals how much I have to draw :P
18:23:25 <andythenorth> hide web page pls
18:24:03 <Pikka> I'm reviving the 10CC concept... 10 locos per set = less to draw.
18:24:17 <Pikka> but doing them in double zoom = more to draw
18:25:04 <andythenorth> supporting 1860-2050 is dozy, but I am doing it anyway :P
18:25:44 <andythenorth> I await with interest :)
18:25:52 <andythenorth> I am not EZ-ing FIRS though :P
18:27:21 <andythenorth> almost certainly don't have enough life left :P
18:27:29 <andythenorth> FIRS is nearly 10 years old
18:31:30 <Pikka> UKRS 0.3... minimise expectations ;)
18:31:53 <andythenorth> so no intermodal? o_O
18:32:01 <andythenorth> and is intermodal also trucks-on-flatcar?
18:32:11 <Pikka> I suppose yes intermodal... container wagons
18:33:12 <Pikka> even pineapple trains had container wagons, and it was super-TT-style.
18:39:27 <andythenorth> I should make a pineapple train
18:40:52 <Pikka> poor old big pineapple... it's looking pretty shabby these days.
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19:06:28 <Wolf01> Topic still missing something
19:15:05 <Wolf01> So, no new issues for NRT, ready for trunk.
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19:51:22 <andythenorth> frosch123: so...NotStations? o_O
19:51:34 <andythenorth> I was considering trying to add nml support for stations
19:51:44 <andythenorth> but then I remembered...stations make no sense
19:53:18 <Wolf01> Yeah, a single interface like newobjects to build non-track station tiles
19:54:02 <andythenorth> with access to a list of cargos waiting at the station
19:54:27 <andythenorth> and a conventional action 3, action 2 chain, not whatever it is that stations do
19:54:31 <andythenorth> which I still don't understand
19:56:10 <andythenorth> oh it's prop 0F that I don't understand
19:56:48 <andythenorth> and most of all prop 09
19:59:15 <Pikka> debluncked station spec? :)
20:16:11 <peter1138> stations must've made sense, i mostly made them work...
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20:22:59 <andythenorth> they work, they're just weird :P
20:27:36 <Wolf01> So andythenorth, did you decide what to do after NRT? I did: continue to extend NRT
20:28:07 <andythenorth> what did you add? o_O
20:28:07 <supermop_work> custom foundations for railtypes
20:28:25 <andythenorth> I have 3 unreleasable vehicle grfs
20:28:32 <andythenorth> so eh, plenty to do :P
20:30:14 <Wolf01> Eh, feature flags until I run off of space, finish the implementation, help frosch (or get frosch help) to turn NRT into BGT
20:31:34 <andythenorth> BGT is interesting
20:31:46 <andythenorth> I wonder if we do it, we might find out it wasn't needed
20:31:53 <andythenorth> and the UI problem is...hard :)
20:32:14 <andythenorth> how else do we learn anything? o_O
20:36:19 <supermop_work> i think its probably not needed, but i also feel newobjects are not needed
20:37:00 <andythenorth> and yet if they weren't there...
20:37:49 <Wolf01> I don't use them, but when I don't have them I need them
20:38:01 <andythenorth> they'd distort the station spec otherwise
20:38:11 <andythenorth> we'd have feature requests for stations that were nothing to do with stations
20:38:24 <andythenorth> I never use NewObjects though myself
20:38:47 <andythenorth> ok engine 'types' in Horse, e.g. 'Freight, Heavy Freight, Express' etc
20:39:03 <andythenorth> 'type', 'class', 'role', or 'group' ?
20:42:31 <supermop_work> youreally are going to want a 500 rivet locomotive for a rake like that
20:53:04 <andythenorth> what 'role' are narrow gauge engines? o_O
20:53:10 * andythenorth hasn't thought about that, oops
20:54:26 <andythenorth> uncontroversial: branch, freight, heavy freight, express pax, railcar
20:55:08 <andythenorth> harder to figure out: electric engine (fast, high HP, but low TE); TGV-ish electric unit; narrow gauge engine
20:55:36 <andythenorth> I need to define the role to automate vehicle expiry :P
21:06:42 <andythenorth> express_1 and express_2 :P
21:06:54 <andythenorth> display strings can be done later
21:08:56 <Pikka> personally, let the player decide the role? ;)
21:10:09 <andythenorth> but I still have to handle model_life property :P
21:11:11 <andythenorth> 'red', 'green' and 'blue' would also work for that
21:11:28 <Pikka> I don't mind nothing disappearing in IH... otherwise, just make things disappear 10 years after the replacement is introduced? and use "retire early" to make sure players don't build anything that's going to break down before it's life expired.
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21:14:02 <andythenorth> I like the chibi
21:20:00 <andythenorth> lot more detail at that size than 1x
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23:38:12 <orudge> It seems some delightful individual is sending €1 donations to OpenTTD to test stolen PayPal accounts :(
23:38:27 <orudge> Had a large number of donations come through at the weekend, at least one of which has been reported as unauthorised...
23:39:22 <Wolf01> Oh, that's what I forgot to do! Are 5€ enough?
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23:40:48 <orudge> Wolf01: you don't need to donate anything! But if you do wish to, then €5 is plenty - any donation is appreciated
23:40:55 <orudge> Except donations from stolen PayPal accounts :P
23:41:45 <Wolf01> The only problem is that the donation topic has more donation links than cnet download links :D
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23:55:45 <__ln__> Wolf01: are you using a stolen account too?
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23:56:13 <Wolf01> Yes, mine, it steals money from my bank account
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