IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2018-03-25
⏴ go to previous day
00:07:06 *** snail_UES_ has joined #openttd
00:07:47 *** supermop has joined #openttd
00:28:29 *** Thedarkb has joined #openttd
00:31:22 *** ToffeeYogurtPots has quit IRC
00:45:06 <GT> In multiplayer I don't see any server, is that a known problem?
00:53:29 <GT> I don't see any multiplayer server, what is wrong?
00:55:23 <GT> Internet connection is OK, check online content too, but no mplayerservers are shown
00:57:01 <GT> Is this chat even functional?
01:09:07 <GT> Does anybody else have problems with seeing multiplayer servers?
01:43:43 <LordAro> might help if you stuck around long enough for an answer
01:59:03 <Eddi|zuHause> did TrueBrain manage to break it completely?
03:00:09 <Eddi|zuHause> or is it the usual local networking setup problems
03:01:43 <Eddi|zuHause> i just fell into a time hole, and an hour disappeared
03:07:24 *** Fahrradkette has joined #openttd
03:25:41 <glx> seems to be empty for me too
03:28:25 <Fahrradkette> hi everybody. If I wanted to use that awesome feature of copy&pasting junctions ect. what would I have to do? Would I compile openttd from scratch?
03:28:58 *** Thedarkb has joined #openttd
03:33:33 <glx> and it may not apply cleanly as it's quite old
03:36:37 <glx> oh there are more recent version it seems, with precompiled binaries
04:22:14 *** snail_UES_ has joined #openttd
04:28:55 <Eddi|zuHause> you probably find it in some patchpacks
04:29:07 <Eddi|zuHause> which is probably the easiest route to take
06:06:26 *** rocky1138 has joined #openttd
06:42:52 *** Supercheese has joined #openttd
07:43:10 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd
08:52:02 *** Wacko1976 has joined #openttd
09:28:02 *** Alberth has joined #openttd
09:28:02 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Alberth
10:41:48 *** Progman has joined #openttd
10:50:15 *** synchris has joined #openttd
10:53:10 *** gelignite has joined #openttd
11:01:41 *** Mistril has joined #openttd
11:02:17 <Mistril> is the server list down?
11:03:07 <nielsm> someone talked about problems with it yesterday, yes
11:03:28 <Mistril> i...then its not my computer that is at fault
11:05:38 *** FLHerne has joined #openttd
11:08:40 <LordAro> MSU bus factor too high
11:40:41 *** Wacko1976 has joined #openttd
12:01:33 *** Wormnest has joined #openttd
12:37:49 *** chomwitt has joined #openttd
12:51:06 *** DarkSSHClone has joined #openttd
12:57:23 *** FLHerne has joined #openttd
13:25:25 <TrueBrain> MSU not working? Weird, as servers are being listed .. normally that is enough to work :D
13:26:03 <TrueBrain> owh, another MySQL Query error ..
13:32:57 <TrueBrain> now I need to understand why we did something 10 years ago .. lolz
13:39:30 <TrueBrain> right .. this should resolve it ..
14:40:30 *** Thedarkb has joined #openttd
14:51:33 *** sim-al2 has joined #openttd
15:21:37 *** RafiXHexchat has joined #openttd
15:23:58 *** RafiXHexchat is now known as RafiX
15:39:34 *** Thedarkb has joined #openttd
15:41:16 *** snail_UES_ has joined #openttd
15:56:50 *** supermop has joined #openttd
15:59:04 *** frosch123 has joined #openttd
16:10:43 <frosch123> some greeting is going on
16:11:07 <Wolf01> Disassembled for the 6th time my lego robotic arm, 2 weeks left to have something working and no idea on how to make it
16:20:47 *** andythenorth_ has joined #openttd
16:21:13 <andythenorth_> anyone know which sound effects map to which vehicles in ttd base set?
16:21:27 <andythenorth_> probably /src knows :P
16:21:34 <andythenorth_> it's in some .h file somewhere?
16:21:55 <andythenorth_> I just want to set same sounds for truck and bus as original game
16:25:23 <Pikka> I had them all extracted somewhere
16:29:08 <andythenorth_> Pikka are you planning any new zellepin grfs?
16:29:29 <Pikka> no zellepins, only portals
16:31:13 <andythenorth_> I was hoping someone would apply same to zellepins
16:31:19 <andythenorth_> "fruit and veg zellepin"
16:32:13 <andythenorth_> totally no cut-paste going on there
16:32:18 <Pikka> zellepins aren't very useful though. I did notice ships don't clip any more, I guess zellepins could be made bigger too?
16:34:34 <Pikka> wait, are we talking about hoverzellpins or ?
16:34:53 <andythenorth_> hovering in the sky zellepins
16:34:59 <andythenorth_> not hovering over water
16:35:24 <Pikka> the hovering over water ones are covered, right? There's the old ones I 3d'd?
16:36:09 <andythenorth_> more than enough of those
16:46:12 <Wolf01> I can't understand why andythenorth_ is still drawing ships, we already decided to merge ships and airplanes and only use ekranoplanes ;)
16:47:21 <andythenorth_> they are ekranoplanes
16:47:25 <andythenorth_> can't you tell? o_O
16:48:08 <Wolf01> You should put little wings and jet engines
16:51:09 <andythenorth_> tram sound effects...
16:51:14 <andythenorth_> should I use crossing bells? o_O
16:54:56 <andythenorth_> SOUND_HEAVY_WIND?
16:58:49 <frosch123> use the tropic forest sound for the livestock ship
16:59:24 <frosch123> well, or just the farm moo
17:06:40 <frosch123> 6666 was already passed, i hope we won't reach 7k, any other interesting numbers nearby?
17:06:58 *** Thedarkb has joined #openttd
17:09:19 <LordAro> andythenorth_: an actually interesting issue as well
17:16:39 <frosch123> should we have an "actually interesting" label for gh issues?
17:20:16 <nielsm> what would get that label?
17:21:23 <LordAro> on github this would be a pr
17:23:18 *** gelignite has joined #openttd
17:49:29 <supermop> procratinating drawing a car transporter trailer for like a week
17:58:44 <HeyCitizen> how can I place fishing harbour/port/bulk terminal on river?
18:00:29 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd
18:13:38 *** ToffeeYogurtPots has joined #openttd
18:36:34 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd
18:36:43 <andythenorth> Road Hog is a mess
18:36:48 <andythenorth> it has NRT support in it :(
18:37:24 <Eddi|zuHause> that would have been better as a branch
18:37:47 <andythenorth> but I can't merge reliably with hg
18:38:17 <andythenorth> also I was told by Ammler to never merge with hg
18:38:29 <Eddi|zuHause> what's wrong with hg merge?
18:38:43 <andythenorth> I'm not sure, I was told not to
18:38:57 <andythenorth> I do it anyway, but with no idea what I'm doing
18:39:07 <andythenorth> doesn't seem worth learning it if it's a sign of FAIL
18:39:19 <Eddi|zuHause> if it doesn't complain about conflicts, it's probably ok
18:41:09 <andythenorth> I get conflicts but I taught hg how to use my mergetool
18:41:33 <andythenorth> I can't really see anything wrong with it, except user error when I made commits in the wrong branch of Hog
18:41:44 <andythenorth> but distrust was sown early
18:42:00 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't see the problem, honestly
18:43:04 <andythenorth> well there are (3)
18:43:12 <andythenorth> commits to wrong branch (user error)
18:43:30 <andythenorth> merge B>A instead of A>B (user error)
18:43:42 <andythenorth> result: NRT code in 'default' branch of Hog
18:43:57 <andythenorth> which works, but leaves a mess and is unused / unusable
18:44:37 <Eddi|zuHause> well, you can always go back to a "clean" revision and reapply all further commits that should be kept clean, and call that the new "default" branch
18:45:10 <Eddi|zuHause> the "spoilt" commits then just sit there as a dead branch
18:45:15 <andythenorth> nah the bird has flown
18:45:33 <andythenorth> very large amount of refactoring has happened mixed in with NRT commits
18:45:38 <Eddi|zuHause> or just make a "cleanup" commit
18:46:06 <andythenorth> the issue is really trying to design against 2 APIs
18:46:22 <andythenorth> how Hog would be if NRT, and how Hog needs to be to load in trunk
18:49:03 <Eddi|zuHause> i would suggest keeping the "design" for NRT (with potentially redundant vehicles in the trunk version), just keep the specific NRT code out
18:49:35 <Eddi|zuHause> under the assumption that NRT will actually end up in the game in the forseeable future
18:49:47 <andythenorth> or that I perpetually play the fork
18:50:20 <andythenorth> ok so maybe I just don't do some specific refactoring today, as it hinges on NRT in/out
19:07:21 *** Mahjong has joined #openttd
19:17:33 <andythenorth> apparently Hog breaks [some] AIs because they can't use articulated RVs
19:18:27 <andythenorth> 80 out of 93 vehicles are articulated
19:18:42 <andythenorth> but all 93 set the articulated callback flag
19:18:48 <andythenorth> do I care about fixing that?
19:22:21 <andythenorth> do I have to fix the AI?
19:22:25 <andythenorth> seems broken to me
19:23:04 <Eddi|zuHause> that does seem to be your job to fix
19:23:33 <andythenorth> samu reported it :P
19:23:36 <Eddi|zuHause> if you provide wrong documentation, how do you expect people to use it the right way?
19:23:41 <andythenorth> and thought it was my job
19:23:55 <andythenorth> it's probably a trivial fix
19:24:32 <andythenorth> how do I && in python conditional?
19:25:33 <andythenorth> that doesn't assign a to (5 and b)? :o
19:26:09 <nielsm> oh yeah python does use == for equals
19:26:20 <nielsm> but = is not an operator iirc, but a statement
19:26:24 <nielsm> so it's just a syntax error
19:26:34 <andythenorth> seems to work anyway
19:28:56 <nielsm> hmm, have anyone made a "low bridges" patch to make less-height bridges specifically for crossing rivers, but don't allow other things to pass below?
19:29:25 <nielsm> advantage would be less power needed to go over and lower cost
19:35:43 <frosch123> usually people want to make rivers and ships more useable, not less :p
19:39:44 <supermop> hmm should i make car carrier trailer 8/8? all my other trailers are 7/8
19:40:28 <supermop> and cars are 3/8 so the extra 1/8 does not get me any extra cars
19:49:52 <nielsm> sure looks like some of those are being straight up crushed
19:51:08 <glx> ah multiplayer list seems repaired, I guess it was an ipv6 problem
19:51:51 <nielsm> nope: <TrueBrain> owh, another MySQL Query error ..
20:24:31 *** Supercheese has joined #openttd
20:40:44 <TrueBrain> frosch123: seems it needs more work than I expected to get GH glued to Bamboo ... mostly it seems we need to make our own API to handle the GH callbacks to work properly
20:40:57 <TrueBrain> not the biggest chunk of work, but it takes a bit of time
20:41:18 <TrueBrain> for now we can make Bamboo poll GH after push (so PRs are review-only)
20:41:33 <TrueBrain> that should not make the biggest difference with subversion
20:42:58 <frosch123> can we have one bamboo job which we manually point at random repositories/branches for single compilations?
20:43:20 <TrueBrain> plans are a bit tight to their repository
20:43:27 <TrueBrain> not sure how flexible Bamboo is going to be in that
20:43:59 <frosch123> well, so we can check compilation of foreign branches before pulling
20:44:08 <frosch123> like win compilation and stuff
20:44:15 <TrueBrain> I think it will take me 2 weekends or so to get that automated
20:44:24 <TrueBrain> think it takes more effort to setup something like that :D
20:44:45 <TrueBrain> but the question becomes .. do you want to wait with migration to GH for that?
20:44:52 <TrueBrain> we can next weekend move all issues and source
20:45:03 <TrueBrain> Bamboo still checks after accepting PRs, like it does with Subversion
20:45:14 <frosch123> i will be little active next week and next weekend
20:45:31 <TrueBrain> so better to delay another weekend then :)
20:45:47 <TrueBrain> so the weekend of the 8th?
20:46:15 <frosch123> 7/8th should be fine
20:46:22 <TrueBrain> I am not going to overly prepare the migration, as I dont have that much time; it will be a bit touch&go .. but it should be fine
20:46:30 <TrueBrain> issue import works, code import works
20:46:39 <TrueBrain> just no clue yet how to make FlySpray read-only in a decent way etc
20:46:46 <TrueBrain> (possibly I just unlink it from the LDAP :P)
20:47:32 <TrueBrain> I like the latest issue import in RC2 a lot .. looks so much better with quoting
20:47:38 <TrueBrain> issue links work too
20:47:55 <TrueBrain> considered fixing revision links .. but no :D
20:53:38 <frosch123> yay, found a task to close
21:02:17 <frosch123> if i write a commit hook in python, can windows people use that?
21:03:55 <nielsm> probably yes, if they install python
21:08:52 *** Progman_ has joined #openttd
21:11:28 *** Progman_ is now known as Progman
21:23:47 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd
21:45:06 <LANJesus> frosch123: look at what git for windows comes with
21:45:14 <LANJesus> and other git distros for windows
21:46:13 <frosch123> so, what does it come with?
21:46:31 <frosch123> i have not touched windows for 10 years, i have no idea why people use it for development at all
21:48:24 <glx> it comes with it's own msys install
21:48:33 <supermop> andythenorth: are you going to draw car transporters for hog?
21:49:33 <andythenorth> supermop: I'm considering playing OpenTTD
21:49:35 <supermop> but delivering to to the dealer in crates is looking a bit silly
21:49:46 <andythenorth> flatbed truck, with trucks
21:49:55 <supermop> everytime i play something bugs me to get added
21:50:20 <supermop> maybe in my game they are all snowmobiles and jetskis
21:50:31 <glx> but I usually just use github app
21:51:22 <supermop> my truck cabs are too tall to go on a flatbed
21:51:56 <supermop> dreading drawing nose up and nose down angles for cars
21:54:43 <supermop> this is how we deliver new trucks here:
21:55:40 <andythenorth> just pile some sprites together
21:55:58 <supermop> pixels dont take to a 15 degree rotation so easy
21:56:13 <supermop> my have to model, render, then trace
21:56:28 *** Thedarkb has joined #openttd
21:56:39 <Eddi|zuHause> that windshield does not look safe
21:56:52 <supermop> Eddi|zuHause: thats bothering me too
22:08:22 <supermop> so a 9/8 trailer will glitch, but i wonder if i can make a 1+8 articulated, where the 1 has its angle matched to the following 8 by using the curv_info_cur_next
22:08:46 <Eddi|zuHause> *cough*CETS*cough*
22:09:18 <supermop> might be overkill just to fit 3 cars per level though
22:11:27 <supermop> i was going to do that already for the part of the transported that overhangs the cab, but then i notices that this part is attached to the cab itself, not the trailer irl
22:15:20 <supermop> Eddi|zuHause: do you point to your special angles by just switching to a different sprite group based on curve info?
22:16:48 <Eddi|zuHause> well, not the curve_info variable but the more flexible var62
22:17:06 <supermop> i guess the template will need to be a bit odd to to match the following part
22:19:18 <Eddi|zuHause> where "SLICE" is +1, 0 or -1, depending on which part is active
22:21:29 *** ToBeFree has joined #openttd
22:21:44 <supermop> oh yeah, will need to account for relative height too
22:22:00 <Eddi|zuHause> from the bottom up it first checks whether we're in the GUI or on the normal map, then it checks the curve, and then it checks the height
22:23:05 <Eddi|zuHause> if anything is odd, it falls back to drawing the full sprite on the center part, and invisible sprites on the other parts
22:23:49 <Eddi|zuHause> if everything is straight, it draws the vehicle in 3 separate parts ("slices") to avoid clipping
22:23:59 <andythenorth> should I BAD FEATURES? o_O
22:24:01 <Eddi|zuHause> and if the curve conditions are met, it draws the angled sprites
22:24:22 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: there are no BAD FEATURES, only unmaintainable implementations
22:24:54 *** Wacko1976 has joined #openttd
22:25:06 <Eddi|zuHause> the angled sprites are also drawn as one single sprite on the center vehicle, the others invisible
22:25:12 <andythenorth> no no, some features are BAD
22:25:15 <andythenorth> running sounds :P
22:25:34 <andythenorth> auto-upgrading stats without changing ID :P
22:26:09 <Pikka> auto-downgrading stats without changing ID? ;)
22:26:38 <andythenorth> Pikka: worth trying I think
22:27:04 <andythenorth> I liked supermop's idea for Horse
22:27:05 <supermop> turn off breakdowns but have trucks loose hp as they get old
22:27:16 <andythenorth> if only mail cars in train, all mail cars are red
22:27:57 <supermop> if some mail and some pax, they are br blue
22:28:28 <supermop> if mixed freight, they are whatever
22:28:31 <Pikka> sounds dangerously "realistic"
22:28:39 <supermop> only use i can think of for that property
22:28:56 <andythenorth> it's quite silly
22:29:16 <andythenorth> might be better to 2CC them if only mail
22:29:30 <supermop> andythenorth: thats basically what i meant
22:29:45 <andythenorth> hmm, in colour menu, mail cars are 'passenger' :P
22:29:45 <supermop> not literally have to be red
22:29:51 <andythenorth> colour menu is stupid :)
22:30:04 <Eddi|zuHause> how do you distinguish "everything is mail" with front and other engines in the chain?
22:30:24 <andythenorth> there's some prop for it
22:30:55 <Eddi|zuHause> and what's with mail wagons refitted to valuables?
22:31:02 <Eddi|zuHause> or other "express" cargos?
22:31:22 <andythenorth> most common cargo type *isn't* pax?
22:31:34 <supermop> Eddi|zuHause: most_common_refit
22:31:47 <andythenorth> or rather, special case for common refit *is* pax
22:31:58 <andythenorth> it's daft but eh
22:32:08 <supermop> most_common_refit is for class, not cargo
22:32:34 <supermop> if most common is CC_PASSENGERS, make mail same colors as passengers
22:32:43 <supermop> else, some other color
22:33:14 <supermop> i find it backwards that you set wagon color based on locomotive type
22:33:28 <supermop> instead of locomotive color based on wagon type
22:33:43 <supermop> which seems like the more natural case
22:33:51 <andythenorth> colour settings are ass backwards anyway
22:34:31 <supermop> ofc a newgrf can do it for you, but when playing the vanilla game, id rather have a black kirby paul and grey sh30 for freight
22:34:44 <supermop> and 1cc for passengers
22:35:01 <supermop> or whatever else i choose in color menu
22:35:16 <supermop> andythenorth: i think you sent me that before
22:35:47 <supermop> ended up reading essentially the whole site
22:35:51 <Eddi|zuHause> lots of things in this game are backwards
22:48:29 <supermop> hmm with 5 or 6 cars on the trailer, recoloring might have to get redundant
22:49:33 <supermop> layer 1 being lower deck, l2 being lower cars, 3 being upper deck, and 4 being upper cars
22:50:00 <supermop> 3 cars per sprite: 1cc, 2cc, ???
22:50:14 <supermop> 3rd can be purple i guess
23:06:35 <Eddi|zuHause> you can have more than 2 recolours, if you generate the appropriate recolour maps
23:07:21 <supermop> past the 3rd (purple) i think i might run low of good bits of the pallet to use
23:08:02 <supermop> not a big deal for the carrier, as the trailer itself wont use many colors
23:08:33 <Eddi|zuHause> you can use the magic pink or color cycle areas, as long as you recolour them to proper colours in all cases
23:08:35 <Pikka> TBH though you could make every car carrier look identical and no-one would really mind. I don't think the ones in NARS did anything fancy and they looked fine.
23:09:31 <Eddi|zuHause> it just gets tricky to actually draw with these
23:09:49 <supermop> Pikka: this grf is really for my own insane navel gazing than any real audience at this point
23:10:22 <supermop> last week i worked out how to make slag glow less as is cools, im sure no one else is asking for that
23:11:10 <supermop> seeing as slag is only in one firs economy, and even andy doesn't have sprites for it in any of his vehicle sets
23:12:13 <supermop> now i need to draw slag ladles that tip to unload
23:15:33 <Eddi|zuHause> i think the problem with that will be that you can't distingusih loading from unloading
23:20:27 <supermop> vehicle_is_unloading
23:20:53 <supermop> "Value is 1 if the vehicle is unloading at a station and has not yet started loading new cargo. "
23:22:02 <Eddi|zuHause> that must be new
23:23:46 <supermop> i was surprised when i first saw it
23:25:58 <Eddi|zuHause> well we did come accross this problem once or twice
23:26:13 <Eddi|zuHause> must have been that one time we decided to implement a solution
23:43:29 <supermop> well now i know how to make my 9/8 car carrier work and give all the cars random colors, but I still don't feel like drawing it
23:56:07 <Eddi|zuHause> that sounds awfully like CETS
continue to next day ⏵
