IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2018-02-12
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11:37:14 <Samu_> or is there a special {STRING] alike to get colors
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12:09:59 <Samu_> how to retrieve company colour now ? :(
12:10:45 <Eddi|zuHause> those are not the colours you are looking for *handwave*
12:25:08 <peter1138> RGB company colours!
12:25:17 <peter1138> Someone had a patch for that, 5-6 years ago...
12:27:39 <Samu_> i wanted GS's to find out which colour a company has
12:28:04 <Samu_> GSCompany.GetColour or something is missing
12:31:08 <peter1138> Not sure how it would be useful.
12:46:57 <Samu_> global goals listing, with the nice [##] colour scheme
12:47:40 <Samu_> to quickly identify companies/players/vehicles
13:08:07 <peter1138> Well, a company colour blob done by company ID would work better than pulling out the company colour directly
13:27:43 <peter1138> {COMPANYCOLOUR} text id thing whatever they're called
13:38:05 <Samu_> i was searching for that, but there isn't
13:43:16 <Samu_> looked at strgen_tables.h and string.cpp and control_codes.h
13:45:34 <peter1138> Yeah, so make a patch. Doing it the string way is better than making the GS retrieve the colours though.
13:46:39 <Samu_> wow, "make a patch", first time i don't see "make a newgrf" coming from devs
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15:20:45 <Wolf01> I feel like the poor trucks at level crossing with maglev :|
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15:38:02 <supermop_work_> this year's strain, same as we have in US wolf?
15:38:21 <supermop_work_> i had it end of december, was brutal
15:38:34 <supermop_work_> never been so sick with a flu before
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15:39:56 <Wolf01> I had been really sick the past year, and I was waiting for this one to hit, I already dodged 3 flus in 3 months
15:41:09 <supermop_work_> i pretty much just laid in bed
15:45:19 <Wolf01> Me too, but I have to move sometimes because everything starts to ache
15:58:24 <Eddi|zuHause> can't be much worse than my teeth
15:58:45 <Eddi|zuHause> (just returned from the dentist)
15:58:46 <Wolf01> Exceps when all your 31 teeth ache because of fever
15:59:03 <Eddi|zuHause> you don't know how my teeth feel like
16:14:25 <supermop_work_> did the dentist take all of your teeth out?
16:15:21 <Wolf01> Maybe he pushed some more in
16:15:35 <supermop_work_> so wolf, do i need to ask frog for new nml to use no_houses?
16:15:46 <Wolf01> Nah, better ask the cat
16:16:03 <supermop_work_> no binaries from cat, least not yet
16:16:27 <Eddi|zuHause> no, the dentist insisted there's only one tooth at fault, but it sure feels like all of them hurt
16:16:44 <supermop_work_> get a gold one
16:16:45 <Wolf01> Or compile it yourself
16:17:20 <Wolf01> One with a cyanide capsule
16:17:47 <supermop_work_> maybe not in irridium then unless you've got a powerful jaw
16:18:00 <supermop_work_> ice cream capsule in tooth?
16:18:07 <Eddi|zuHause> i never understood those cyanide tooth thing, sounds like something that is way too likely to go off unintended
16:21:33 <supermop_work_> first time i saw that, was reading dune as a kid
16:21:49 <supermop_work_> and i thought 'this doesn't make sense'
16:21:58 <supermop_work_> and sure enough it didn't work
16:21:59 <Eddi|zuHause> i think it was in a james bond movie
16:22:19 <supermop_work_> spoilers for the first dune book i guess
16:22:35 <Eddi|zuHause> i never read the books
16:22:40 <supermop_work_> if you haven't read it in the last 50 years
16:22:56 <Eddi|zuHause> it doesn't matter how old a book is
16:23:09 <Eddi|zuHause> there's always someone who never read it, but intends to
16:23:25 <supermop_work_> i should read them again i guess
16:26:29 <Wolf01> Nut only the first 2... the others are too much weird
16:26:50 <supermop_work_> i think i read 6
16:27:04 <supermop_work_> ithink the guys son wrote some more after those
16:27:29 <supermop_work_> yeah the late ones are quite a rabbit hole
16:28:11 <supermop_work_> also come one someone over those 4000 years has to have built himself a little computer somewhere
16:28:38 <Wolf01> They had mentats, why do they needed computers?
16:28:58 <Eddi|zuHause> they have chinese people in the basement remembering numbers?
16:29:23 <supermop_work_> thats like how their galactic economy works
16:29:46 <Eddi|zuHause> well, our global economy works on computers from the 70s running COBOL...
16:30:09 <supermop_work_> most things a computer would do, like accounting or navigation, is just a specialized person raised from birth to do that task
16:30:50 <Eddi|zuHause> isn't one of the central cores of that whole universe that for navigation you need this "spice" drug?
16:31:39 <supermop_work_> but if you just used a damn computer you wouldn't need people out of their minds on spice to do all your calculations
16:32:20 <Eddi|zuHause> that sounds like a way less interesting universe :p
16:32:28 <supermop_work_> but computers are illegal
16:32:59 <Eddi|zuHause> how can they be illegal if nobody ever built one?
16:33:32 <supermop_work_> they had a jihad some 1000+ years in the past against computers and robots
16:33:43 <Wolf01> Oh they built many, also AIs, that's why they were illegal
16:34:20 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't know nearly enough lore around dune
16:34:30 <supermop_work_> there is one planet that is basically a secret guild that is hinted to have kept or redeveloped some computers, and which supplies basic technology
16:35:29 <Eddi|zuHause> so this is a post-singularity universe, where the humans won out over the sentient robots
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16:42:16 <supermop_work_> humans are not very unified though, and
16:43:25 <supermop_work_> i think maybe first 3 are worth a shot?
16:43:39 <supermop_work_> 4-6 certainly are different
16:43:51 <supermop_work_> and i recall them being depressing
16:44:30 <supermop_work_> this was like 22 or so years ago though
16:46:29 <supermop_work_> though there is a bit more deep space travel in later books
16:54:26 <Samu_> i named it {COMPANY_COLOUR} // SCC_COMPANY_COLOUR
16:54:44 <Samu_> still unsure about some variables, need confirmation on this
16:54:57 <Samu_> {"COMPANY_COLOUR", EmitSingleChar, SCC_COMPANY_COLOUR, 1, -1, C_NONE},
16:55:10 <Samu_> those numbers, dunno what they're for
16:57:19 <nielsm> the table is declared like this: static const CmdStruct _cmd_structs[]
16:57:25 <nielsm> so it's an array of CmdStruct structs
16:57:33 <nielsm> that type is defined a few lines above
16:58:02 <nielsm> which tells you what each field is
16:59:46 <Samu_> but it's still unclear what it does
17:00:44 <nielsm> "consumes" likely is how many string formatting arguments it uses up
17:01:50 <nielsm> and "default_plural_offset" probably controls which of the arguments the control code takes that controls the plurals generations
17:04:26 <nielsm> so if you want to make a control code that takes a company id as argument and selects a color based on that, it's probably correct
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17:21:20 <Borg> spam attack again? so +R was necessary? or what?
17:22:02 <Borg> anyway.. I was obeserwing city growing recently.. in I noticed that algoritm there kinda sucks..
17:22:17 <Borg> like.. replacing large office block w/ park for example..
17:22:42 <Borg> that barelly happens in real live.. ground there is way too expensive
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17:29:01 <nielsm> yes or the classic tearing down a stadium to make way for a single family house
17:29:40 <nielsm> especially bad in small towns where it can often mean your bus stop suddenly loses passenger acceptance
17:30:48 <Eddi|zuHause> well, the algorithm doesn't really understan house types
17:31:28 <nielsm> but it might make sense to implement something like cost of a town expansion, used to weigh different options
17:32:11 <nielsm> and maybe even include age of the building being torn down, if that's not too expensive (memory-wise)
17:32:29 <Eddi|zuHause> you need to make a much broader approach there
17:32:54 <nielsm> most interesting could be if some buildings get preserved forever
17:34:34 <Eddi|zuHause> you need a proper town planner simulation for that
17:35:11 <supermop_work_> Eddi|zuHause: could probably approximate it somehow
17:35:26 <Eddi|zuHause> which brings you deep into "but the game is not about that" territory
17:35:37 <supermop_work_> make towns subject to same removal cost penalties as players
17:35:58 <supermop_work_> so prefer to remove lesser buildings
17:36:40 <nielsm> and maybe not make construction choices that will lower the total population :)
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17:38:09 <Eddi|zuHause> that won't prevent stadiums being replaced by houses
17:38:42 <Eddi|zuHause> while it may prevent hotels or office buildings appearing in the center
17:41:14 <nielsm> I'd think it would be possible to make a general algorithm that prefers building a house on a new plot across the street, rather than tearing down an existing construction, while also recognizing that growth requires building taller in the center now
17:44:05 <Samu_> is this called string control code? formating control code?
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17:48:13 <nielsm> hmm where would I add settings controlling how the performance rating score is calculated, under Accounting would make most sense I think?
17:48:32 <nielsm> or maybe in Environment?
17:55:44 <peter1138> Oh you actually print the name of the colour, haha
17:56:38 <supermop_work_> Eddi|zuHause: i think stadia should gradually move away from centers
17:56:55 <Samu_> yeah, i know it's not pretty, but at least it's something
18:07:54 <Borg> well... there is house population counter right?
18:08:03 <Borg> for every building... aka capacity
18:08:19 <Borg> replace only buildings w/ lower capacity
18:08:31 <Borg> so.. town will slowly grow from center to outside
18:08:44 <Borg> like in real world.. where suburbans areas are filled first w/ small housing
18:08:55 <supermop_work_> borg, sometimes towns shrink, or sprawl to become less dense, which might also be desirable
18:08:57 <Borg> and center w/ skycrappers.. because land cost is biiiig
18:09:12 <Borg> how town can shrink actually?
18:09:29 <supermop_work_> in game or in real life? it can in both
18:09:30 <Borg> except of course.. due to current alrogitm being dumb.. and demolish sky crapper for statue or park
18:09:41 <Borg> no no.. I mean in game..
18:09:59 <Borg> in real life.. small towns can die off.. like mining towns
18:10:20 <supermop_work_> in game by replacement with lower buildings, and also by influence of GS
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18:10:48 <Borg> GS is different story.. lets not involve it right now
18:11:13 <supermop_work_> people move out of cities into suburbs, or to other regions
18:11:49 <Borg> but as I said.. removing sky crapper for park looks.. kinda weird.. especialy. when there is plenty of place or bare land around
18:12:10 <supermop_work_> most planners would consider the trends of late 20th Century american urban development a mistake, but might be interesting in a game
18:12:45 <supermop_work_> well i agree that the current town grown method is too clumsy
18:13:42 <Borg> supermop_work_: wait a min.. we are not discussing real world problems here :)
18:14:02 <Borg> I agree that current city planners sux ass... money.. nothing else matters here
18:14:15 <Borg> but we are not on #solving_world_urban_problems
18:15:26 <nielsm> a town enter _should_ have parks and plazas, but those should generally be ones that have "always" been parks or plazas
18:15:28 <supermop_work_> Borg: on the contrary current city planners work hard to correct the mistakes made from 1950s-90s, and really do not make much money
18:15:55 <supermop_work_> but my arguement is a shrinkin, sprawling city would be desirable in game
18:15:58 <Borg> supermop_work_: maybe in place where u living..
18:16:48 <Borg> supermop_work_: yeah.. but how make city to actually shrink? openttd doesnt support that at all? except mistake like: we want to city to grow.. lets find a place to plant some.. oh wait.. that skyscrapper looks old.. boom.. and we have park here
18:16:50 <nielsm> when a town grows its core area and starts replacing buildings with higher density ones, it should convert a small percentage to parks/plazas, and those should have a very high "cost" to be replaced with other buildings
18:17:18 <supermop_work_> one reason public transit is so bad in the US, despite being very good from 1900-1950, are these urban changes and the ifficulty adapting -- it would be a fun challenge to try to 'beat' the historical scenario
18:17:56 <supermop_work_> Borg: i think cities might periodically remove old buildings anyway
18:18:07 <Borg> public transit is bad.. because probably its the same like here... spliting towns in areas: living, commerce, industrials.. etc
18:18:36 <supermop_work_> if you remove the center road piece, houses will disappear slowly, and no new ones will grow
18:18:36 <Borg> supermop_work_: of course.. its ok.. to remove buildings.. and place similar in place.. a bit smaller/same/a bit larger
18:18:50 <supermop_work_> so some method must be removing those old houses
18:19:21 <Borg> but... not to plant fucking statue.. because land cost on that building is already astronomical.. noone would waste it :) close to center.. but its just my opinion
18:19:35 <Borg> supermop_work_: ahh.. didnt know that.. never was doing extensive City tests
18:20:12 <Borg> anyway.. thats all.. it was my 2 cents :) u do what u see fit..
18:20:18 <supermop_work_> borg, outside of gs city should be able to replace skyscraper with park or even nothing, just with tiny probability
18:21:07 <supermop_work_> as if town had some limited 'capital' each month based on how much it is growing
18:21:52 <Borg> I would rather replace small houses to park.. instead of sky crapper.. ;) but ok
18:21:55 <supermop_work_> so just like for player, removing an expensive building is less preffered than building on bare land
18:22:53 <supermop_work_> Here in NYC, sometimes a 10-20 floor building is replaced with a park, so that the building next door may be made taller
18:23:11 <Eddi|zuHause> in my city, which has been shrinking for decades now, lots of houses have been torn down with no replacement, and also some "skyscrapers" have been nocked down with small or no replacement
18:23:14 <Borg> taller.. so park gets less light.. and then.. dies off.. smart
18:23:44 <Borg> Eddi|zuHause: of course.. it HAPPENS...
18:23:51 <Borg> okey. no futher comments :)
18:24:06 <supermop_work_> Borg: the parks are there because only a certain percentage of a block can be so tall, to allow light down to street level
18:24:10 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't know what you want, though. something that happens in the real world happens also in the game.
18:24:27 <Eddi|zuHause> where's the problem, other than the game is really "dumb" about it?
18:24:50 <Borg> Eddi|zuHause: I noticed that freshly made buildings.. bigger one.. who start accepting goods..
18:24:52 <supermop_work_> such parks are usually benches, pavements, shade tolerant plants, not soccer pitches
18:24:59 <Borg> are later on.. replaced by statue.. or park..
18:25:08 <Borg> even when u ask to build new commercial building
18:25:13 <Borg> thats not ok.. in my opinion :)
18:25:42 <Borg> anyway.. what about PAX generation? u really touching it?
18:25:56 <Borg> because I saw ppl bitching off that dense city produce way too much passengers..
18:26:02 <supermop_work_> it is dumb at the atomic level, but overall towns do trend to denser and bigger
18:26:24 <Borg> supermop_work_: yeah.. after a while they grow indeed..
18:26:29 <Borg> so. maybe not a big problem after all
18:26:59 <supermop_work_> another problem is that the vanilla houses have many 'park' type buildings for the center zone 5, with a high probability
18:27:37 <supermop_work_> with some other sets like swedish houses or japanese houses, you end up with a much higher percentage of big buildings in the center
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18:52:21 <snail_UES_> guys, question for you… anyone knows what are the labels used by Japanese tracks?
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19:02:14 <frosch123> no idea whether they are correct
19:03:28 <snail_UES_> this might be outdated...
19:15:24 <supermop_work_> hi frosch123, sorry to bug, but will nml get built with latest NRT changes?
19:15:53 <frosch123> i think there is no automatism :p someone has to do it
19:17:54 <frosch123> hmm, has been ages since i did that..
19:24:41 <frosch123> supermop_work_: i guess that will take a while
19:24:56 <frosch123> i do not have a readily available compile environment for it
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20:43:20 <supermop_work_> will need to make a few ore Bufo trucks
20:45:39 <frosch123> hmm, i bought the wrong kind of apple
20:51:42 <supermop_work_> granny smith instead of macbook pro?
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20:52:13 <frosch123> no, gala tenroy instead of braeburn
20:56:25 <supermop_work_> neither of those i would consider baking apples
20:56:37 <supermop_work_> what are you going to do with them
20:57:20 <frosch123> but gala tastes really boring
20:57:56 <supermop_work_> indeed i agree with you there
21:11:24 <Borg> uh oh.. eat them while you can.. ;)
21:12:00 <Borg> when bees will extinct.. you will dream to eat any of those ;)
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