IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2017-10-31
⏴ go to previous day
00:27:57 <Samu> ship is loading oil from only one oil rig, it doesn't trigger production of the other oil rig
00:28:07 *** Guest7861 is now known as Prof_Frink
00:28:43 *** Prof_Frink is now known as Guest7863
00:33:27 <Samu> this one is tricky, because it is both the "oil rig" station and the "other station" at the same time
00:35:29 *** mindlesstux has joined #openttd
00:35:32 *** ToffeeYogurtPots has joined #openttd
00:35:53 <Samu> it's both settings 3 and 4
00:36:21 <Samu> i need to cut this to 2 settings
00:38:11 *** mindlesstux has joined #openttd
00:39:21 *** mindlesstux has joined #openttd
00:40:39 *** mindlesstux has joined #openttd
00:55:08 *** mindlesstux has joined #openttd
00:57:29 *** mindlesstux has joined #openttd
01:05:57 *** ToffeeYogurtPots has quit IRC
01:06:26 *** ToffeeYogurtPots has joined #openttd
01:29:07 *** Guest7863 is now known as Prof_Frink
01:29:44 *** Prof_Frink is now known as Guest7865
02:07:06 *** newgrfquestion has joined #openttd
02:07:36 <newgrfquestion> hi. is there someone here that knows about newgrf parameters for a dedicated openttd server?
02:30:15 <newgrfquestion> is there a wiki or any other website that can help one set up newgrf parameters without a gui?
02:30:19 *** Guest7865 is now known as Prof_Frink
02:30:58 *** Prof_Frink is now known as Guest7868
02:36:51 <Eddi|zuHause> the easiest way is to set it up with a gui, and then copy either the savegame or the config section over to the headless server
02:39:01 <newgrfquestion> yeah thats the problem,
02:39:12 <newgrfquestion> the server is on a vm and he doesnt have access to a gui. he says it has to be all cmd line
02:39:23 <newgrfquestion> so is there an rcon command to change the parameters?
02:39:51 <newgrfquestion> he changed the openttd.cfg file but that apparently doesnt list the newgrf parameters
02:41:23 <Eddi|zuHause> it does, but only if they differ from the default, i guess
02:42:46 <newgrfquestion> so how would would change the parameters for FIRS?
02:43:07 <newgrfquestion> is it possible just thru the openttd.cfg? i didnt see a listed for parameters there
02:43:16 <newgrfquestion> only a basic list of newgrfs currently running
02:44:31 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't have a [newgrf] section, but in the [preset-<whatever>] sections it's something like this: "nutracks-1.1.1/nutracks.grf = 0 2 0 0 80 125 180 230"
02:45:18 <Eddi|zuHause> the [newgrf] section also includes the md5 sum of the grf, i think
02:46:20 <newgrfquestion> have you used FIRS before?
02:46:29 <newgrfquestion> i just need to figure out which number changes the economy
02:51:19 <newgrfquestion> Eddi|zuHause: thanks! also, do you know of an alternative to the openttd wiki that lists more information too?
02:52:11 <Eddi|zuHause> which parameter does what you need to check in the specific newgrf documentation
02:54:40 <newgrfquestion> well from the string of numbers, is it the first one that determines the economy in FIRS?
03:01:46 <Eddi|zuHause> order should be the same as in the parameter gui
03:31:20 *** Guest7868 is now known as Prof_Frink
03:31:59 *** Prof_Frink is now known as Guest7873
03:32:46 <newgrfquestion> do you know of a more generalized wiki for openttd besides the default one?
03:32:56 <newgrfquestion> the old openttd wiki has too many holes in it
03:33:17 <newgrfquestion> this is the old one: wiki.openttd.org
03:48:49 *** ToffeeYogurtPots has quit IRC
04:32:20 *** Guest7873 is now known as Prof_Frink
04:32:58 *** Prof_Frink is now known as Guest7877
05:26:38 <Flygon> I used that Wiki when I was new.
05:26:44 <Flygon> And it's outdatedness, uh, bit.
05:28:02 <newgrfquestion> Flygon: whats a better wiki to use for openttd
05:30:57 <Flygon> I don't think one exists.
05:31:16 <Flygon> I mostly got my way through trial and error, asking the IRC for help, and asking the forums for help.
05:31:58 <planetmaker> newgrfquestion, the wiki is written and updated by people like you...
05:32:26 <planetmaker> Besides that the wiki is moderately accurate
05:33:00 <planetmaker> NewGRF parameters for a server are no different than for a single player game
05:33:08 *** Guest7877 is now known as Prof_Frink
05:33:48 *** Prof_Frink is now known as Guest7879
05:42:18 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 has joined #openttd
06:10:00 *** Supercheese has joined #openttd
06:21:14 *** mindlesstux has joined #openttd
06:34:09 *** Guest7879 is now known as Prof_Frink
06:34:48 *** Prof_Frink is now known as Guest7882
06:41:34 *** newgrfquestion has left #openttd
06:54:14 *** PressureLine has joined #openttd
06:54:40 <PressureLine> Happy Halloween!
07:21:37 *** Supercheese has joined #openttd
07:35:09 *** Guest7882 is now known as Prof_Frink
07:35:22 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd
07:35:48 *** Prof_Frink is now known as Guest7884
07:42:50 *** gelignite has joined #openttd
07:56:17 *** tokai|noir has joined #openttd
07:56:17 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai|noir
08:31:05 *** Progman has joined #openttd
08:36:09 *** Guest7884 is now known as Prof_Frink
08:36:48 *** Prof_Frink is now known as Guest7888
09:12:01 <PressureLine> made a crazy 'OpenTTD Calculations spreadsheet'
09:29:48 <PressureLine> but the real question is, is 1100kW cutting it too close for a load that needs 1070kW to hit 80kph on level ground?
09:34:33 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd
09:37:10 *** Guest7888 is now known as Prof_Frink
09:37:49 *** Prof_Frink is now known as Guest7889
09:40:13 *** JacobD88 has joined #openttd
09:40:45 <PressureLine> well. it appears to be
09:41:31 <PressureLine> also: andy, it appears your trams really don't like driving on the RHS of the road :(
10:06:11 <andythenorth> PressureLine: I've seen this in HEQS too
10:06:44 <andythenorth> have you confirmed it's definitely the RHS that has problems, not both sides?
10:10:24 <PressureLine> fine for left hand driving
10:11:37 <PressureLine> not fine for right hand driving
10:12:42 <andythenorth> so it's not just me then
10:14:58 *** andythenorth has left #openttd
10:24:28 *** ToffeeYogurtPots has joined #openttd
10:29:58 *** TheMask96 has joined #openttd
10:38:10 *** Guest7889 is now known as Prof_Frink
10:38:48 *** Prof_Frink is now known as Guest7898
11:05:43 *** supermop_ has joined #openttd
11:09:06 *** supermop_ has joined #openttd
11:15:44 *** supermop has joined #openttd
11:17:38 *** Breckett has joined #openttd
11:39:10 *** Guest7898 is now known as Prof_Frink
11:39:49 *** Prof_Frink is now known as Guest7908
11:43:22 *** ToffeeYogurtPots has quit IRC
11:53:59 *** ToffeeYogurtPots has joined #openttd
12:06:40 *** ToffeeYogurtPots has quit IRC
12:06:47 *** ToffeeYogurtPots has joined #openttd
12:40:11 *** Guest7908 is now known as Prof_Frink
12:40:48 *** Prof_Frink is now known as Guest7913
12:48:21 *** JacobD88 has joined #openttd
13:14:26 *** nick213 has joined #openttd
13:41:11 *** Guest7913 is now known as Prof_Frink
13:41:48 *** Prof_Frink is now known as Guest7919
13:44:54 *** Breckett has joined #openttd
13:48:39 *** Breckett has joined #openttd
13:50:40 *** smoke_fumus has joined #openttd
13:59:17 *** Breckett_ has joined #openttd
14:06:22 *** Breckett has joined #openttd
14:34:25 <supermop> hows it going in italy?
14:35:40 <Wolf01> Today I signed the job contract, 3 months at 500€/month... I need 800€/month at least :(
14:36:28 <__ln__> how many hours per week is that?
14:36:53 <__ln__> how many minutes do italian hours have
14:37:57 <supermop> what is the minimum wage in italy?
14:38:15 <Wolf01> Ahaha, I think the minimum does not exists
14:38:49 <Wolf01> Depends to the collective contract, but if you aren't covered by that then shit
14:40:06 <Wolf01> At least I won't be subject to overtime
14:40:15 <supermop> there isn't a national minimum>
14:40:29 <supermop> not even some basic EU mandated one?
14:41:04 <Wolf01> Maybe, but they do what they want anyway
14:41:28 <supermop> federal minimum here is 7.25
14:41:42 <supermop> of course NY state is higher
14:42:30 <supermop> but the issue here is more that people often only get scheduled for like 20-30 hours a week when they are at those levels, and then need to get 2nd or 3rd jobs
14:43:10 <supermop> of course if you are on salary, there is basically no limit on how long you work
14:43:19 <Wolf01> But this should be a transition period, then I'll be hired (I hope) like others and get ~1200€/month
14:43:35 *** Guest7919 is now known as Prof_Frink
14:43:41 <__ln__> ~1200€/month for what kind of work?
14:44:04 <Eddi|zuHause> that seems really low
14:44:06 <Wolf01> And that's really the minimum
14:44:08 *** Prof_Frink is now known as Guest7924
14:44:19 <supermop> 1200/month seems very low for developer
14:44:46 <supermop> that is below poverty line in US
14:45:03 <supermop> Wolf01: you should move to the US, as bad as it is here
14:45:34 <Wolf01> They use the trade collective contract which has low salary but 14 paydays (2 of them are semestral and about 60% of the base salary)
14:45:37 <supermop> in NYC developer salary is about 10x that
14:46:11 <SpComb> that doesn't sound like a living wage in the EU
14:46:44 <Wolf01> If they were metalworkers (hardware maintainers usually are) I would get 1500€/month but 13 paydays
14:47:20 <Wolf01> Eh, I know, that's why I'm not able to move out from home... at least not on my own
14:48:29 <supermop> if you are under 30, maybe you should go to Aus. on working holiday, and do 6 month contract jobs
14:48:46 <supermop> then maybe make a connection who will pay to sponsor you to go there after
14:48:52 <Wolf01> I'm over 30, and that's why I didn't find other jobs here too
14:49:39 <Wolf01> Also, the shitty thing is that the company is at 40km from home and I'll spend 260-300€ on fuel every month doing basic calculations
14:50:01 <Wolf01> This mean: I won't get anywhere with 200€/month
14:52:55 <__ln__> are you good enough developer to get hired somewhere abroad? if you start looking for opportunities farther away...
14:55:08 <Wolf01> No, I don't think I'm good enough, maybe for prototyping yes, I know many things and about everything from hardware to software, networks, plc, but all academic or for personal culture... also I won't move out by myself
14:55:44 <__ln__> people do move out by themselves
14:56:08 <V453000> I find it dumb to talk about money across countries, in czech republic 1500 euros per month wouldn't be a golden mine but it would be fine for you
14:56:21 <V453000> of course NYC salaries will be higher but with it every other expense
14:57:39 <Wolf01> Yes, but they are right, <800€ here you are below the poverty threshold
14:57:47 <Eddi|zuHause> i make quite a bit more than that, and still think i'm rather at the lower end
14:58:35 <V453000> idk how do italy prices compare to eddiland
14:58:36 <Wolf01> And to be able to rent a room you need at least 350€ for a single room with the WC in the kitchen
14:59:10 <Wolf01> And you have to pay for the light, phone, gas too
14:59:49 <__ln__> who needs light or phone
15:00:21 <Wolf01> Fucking internet when you aren't at work and you can't afford the pub
15:02:01 *** Gustavo6046 has joined #openttd
15:03:57 *** Gustavo6046 has joined #openttd
15:09:05 <supermop> V453000: i would have assumed that italy would be slightly cheaper than non-NYC US, but not that much cheaper
15:09:38 <supermop> when my grandmother died, we sold her house for 20000USD, which was pretty decent price for the area
15:09:58 <__ln__> my impression is that italy certainly isn't at the czech republic level of cheap
15:10:28 <supermop> i would have assumed that no where in Italy could you buy a nice 3 bedroom home for 20000
15:10:36 <V453000> I was just trying to point out that it's all relative :)
15:11:13 <Wolf01> Lol, here a house cost from 70k to 250k€, and the rents are really high too
15:11:43 <__ln__> when i visited prague and plzen, i was like "what do i do with all this cash when nothing costs nearly nothing"
15:12:16 <__ln__> and i hadn't reserved particularly much cash
15:13:10 <Wolf01> I found that Japan was cheaper than Shitaly in many many things, also more comfortable for commuting
15:17:21 <Wolf01> For example we stayed at a ryokan in Kyoto, my friend "ok, this time you have seen how a ryokan is, next time a capsule hotel" my answer "wtf that was like a 5 star hotel in Italy, and we paid only for a 3 star one, ryokan for the life"
15:26:40 <supermop> if you factor in the meals at a ryokan, it really is a great deal
15:27:17 <Wolf01> Meal, room service, rooms too
15:27:20 <supermop> best two meals i had on my last japan trip were the dinner and breakfast at the ryokan
15:34:32 <Samu> why is that this function DeliverGoodsToIndustry
15:34:40 <Samu> can deal with town cargo as well
15:36:41 <Samu> a town is an invalid industry
15:38:41 <Samu> so if there's an industry accepting passengers and a house accepting passengers
15:38:52 <Samu> the industry will be checked first
15:39:31 <Samu> should be the opposite, to make sense, but yeah, this is not real life
15:42:24 *** frosch123 has joined #openttd
15:43:37 <V453000> some guy is asking me "what file to modify to increase max number of vehicles" ... apparently he is compiling his own openttd, or has someone compile it for him
15:43:49 <V453000> is there some simple answer I could pass to him?
15:44:25 <frosch123> vehicles as in "articulated parts" or vehicles as in "max 5000 trains per company"?
15:44:39 <V453000> max 5000 RVs per company
15:44:45 <frosch123> settings.ini probably
15:44:45 <V453000> he already has a version which allows 20 000 apparently
15:45:03 <frosch123> src/table/settings.ini or something
15:45:06 <Wolf01> Just look for 20000 and change it :D
15:45:12 *** Guest7924 is now known as Prof_Frink
15:45:39 <V453000> his cpu can reportedly somehow manage 20k
15:45:51 <V453000> 'it's a bit slower but eh' he says
15:45:52 *** Prof_Frink is now known as Guest7927
15:46:13 <V453000> frosch123: what's the maximum articulated amount? :D
15:46:24 <Samu> i tried 65536 vehicles or so before
15:46:35 <Wolf01> So he wants 50k maybe, it's already slow and it will be twice as slow, but who cares? :D
15:46:46 <V453000> frosch123: thank you :)
15:46:58 <frosch123> V453000: i think all articulated parts of all consists of all companies may not exceed 24 million or so
15:47:00 <Samu> you have to edit the GUI thing to accept 5 digits
15:47:42 <V453000> that sounds pretty damn hard to reach
15:47:52 <V453000> even if you use 1/8 articulation and have 5 tile trains
15:47:54 <frosch123> hmm, it's way lower
15:48:36 <frosch123> prevously it was 64k, which was reached by someone
15:55:48 <Samu> peter1138: here's a but for u
15:55:57 <Samu> void AddCargoDelivery(CargoID cargo_type, CompanyID company, uint32 amount, SourceType src_type, SourceID src, const Station *st)
15:55:59 *** Gustavo6046 has joined #openttd
15:56:12 <V453000> frosch123: LiukSK thanks you :P
15:56:18 <V453000> he's sending slug army your way
15:57:06 <Samu> teh cargo monitor code doesn't do the same as the DeliverGoodsToIndustry
15:59:25 <Samu> if delivergoodstoindustry does 10 to industry A and 0 to industry B, cargo monitor will do 10 to industry a and 10 to industry B
16:24:42 <Borg> dont you think that multihead trains (those w/ 2 locos, A i B) are broken in OpenTTD?
16:25:02 <Borg> only for cases where loco can carry pasanger cars, they should never be actually splitted
16:29:47 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd
16:30:14 <frosch123> that kind of stuff is controlled by newgrf
16:30:27 <frosch123> if you don't like the behaviour, use a different newgrf
16:34:06 <Eddi|zuHause> Borg: some newgrfs forbid you to put anything other than passenger cars on them
16:39:11 *** TheMask96 has joined #openttd
16:39:51 <frosch123> what to do when your grf takes 14 minutes to compile?
16:42:22 <Samu> supermop: i just converted 4 settings into 1
16:42:30 <V453000> how many sprites now frosch123?
16:43:08 <Samu> STR_CONFIG_SETTING_SHARE_INDUSTRY_STATION_CARGO :Share neutral stations cargoes with company stations: {STRING2} STR_CONFIG_SETTING_SHARE_INDUSTRY_STATION_CARGO_HELPTEXT :When enabled, any cargo accepted or supplied on industry stations may also be accepted or supplied on company owned stations. When disabled, the cargoes accepted or supplied on neutral stations is only for the industry it's attached to
16:43:20 <Samu> is it clear, or needs english fixes?
16:43:29 <frosch123> 12k to 800k depending how you count
16:43:42 <V453000> :D 800 thousand sprites?
16:43:53 <Eddi|zuHause> sounds like CETS
16:46:12 *** Guest7927 is now known as Prof_Frink
16:46:52 *** Prof_Frink is now known as Guest7931
16:48:49 <frosch123> wtf, this time python crashed
16:51:49 <V453000> btw what is the part which makes a difference in an item between wagon and engine?
16:51:56 <V453000> no refittable cargo classes/labels?
16:52:11 <V453000> no, cabooses and shit still are wagons, right?
16:53:01 <V453000> thanks :) I completely forgot that and from looking at nuts I couldn't eyeball it fast enough :D
16:55:39 <Eddi|zuHause> sounds also like CETS
16:56:00 <frosch123> it was no oom or similar
16:56:08 <frosch123> i only marginally changed some pixels
16:57:02 <frosch123> mem usage is actually quite low
16:57:16 <frosch123> the nml is simple, just very long
16:57:38 <frosch123> flat structure, no deep links or similar
16:57:52 <frosch123> also it crashed at the very end when writing the output
16:57:56 <frosch123> disk is not full :p
16:59:11 <Eddi|zuHause> problem with CETS usually was ply not working well with large files
16:59:50 <Eddi|zuHause> maybe that is better in python3
17:01:21 <frosch123> hmm acutally memusage increases a lot during "generating actions"
17:04:36 *** newgrfquestion has joined #openttd
17:05:11 <newgrfquestion> is there a way to tell a train to split the cargo at 2 destinations or more?
17:05:39 <newgrfquestion> so if a train is hauling multiple cars of oil, how do I tell it to split that between 2 stations or more?
17:05:53 <Progman> is cargodist an option
17:06:02 <newgrfquestion> no the server doesnt have that enabled
17:06:28 <newgrfquestion> do i need another NewGRF to get that to work?
17:06:50 *** Wormnest has joined #openttd
17:14:26 <Eddi|zuHause> no, newgrf has no influence on that
17:14:45 <Eddi|zuHause> but you can unload at an intermediate station, and have two smaller trains load
17:17:45 <Borg> frosch123: ahh.. yeah, I use plain orginal gfx..
17:20:48 <newgrfquestion> Eddi|zuHause: but theres no way to just tell a large train to split it?
17:21:47 <newgrfquestion> well thats disappointing
17:22:40 <newgrfquestion> maybe a possible feature in a future version?
17:22:58 <Eddi|zuHause> there used to be a patch
17:23:31 <Eddi|zuHause> but the general consensus is to not add more complicated order stuff before the order gui gets cleaned up
17:23:56 <Cubey> Cargodist already exists anyway
17:28:03 <newgrfquestion> there going to change the gui soon?
17:30:34 *** Stimrol has joined #openttd
17:32:20 <Samu> i'm looking for english expert once again. I reduced the number of settings from 4 to 1, merged all the behaviours into just 1 setting, how do i title it?
17:34:57 <Samu> Allow water-based industries cargoes on company stations?
17:36:31 <debdog> not knowing what's going on, but it might be "Allow water-based industrie's cargoes on company stations"
17:38:34 *** ToffeeYogurtPots has quit IRC
17:39:26 <LordAro> "industries'", if anything
17:40:18 *** newgrfquestion has left #openttd
17:41:00 <LordAro> (note the trailing ')
17:41:14 *** ToffeeYogurtPots has joined #openttd
17:41:16 <Samu> Allow water-based industries' cargoes on company stations: {STRING2}
17:41:44 <Samu> and now, how to describe it, HELPTEXT
17:47:12 *** Guest7931 is now known as Prof_Frink
17:47:33 <Samu> "When enabled, any cargo acceptance or suppliance of an industry with an attached station (such as Oil Rigs) may also be accepted or supplied on company owned stations."
17:47:52 *** Prof_Frink is now known as Guest7936
17:48:20 <Samu> When disabled, insert hellish description
17:55:56 <Samu> "When disabled, industries with an attached station may only serve the industries they're paired with, and any company stations nearby won't be able to serve them."
17:59:39 <Samu> Company owned stations may serve water-based industries
17:59:58 <Samu> Allow company owned stations to serve water industries
18:00:16 <Samu> seems more right to the point
18:04:51 <Samu> STR_CONFIG_SETTING_SHARE_INDUSTRY_STATION_CARGO_HELPTEXT :When enabled, serving industries with attached stations (such as Oil Rigs) may also be served on company owned stations when built nearby. When disabled, industries with an attached station may only serve the industries they're paired with, and any company stations nearby won't be able to serve them
18:07:15 <Samu> is it serving, or servicing?
18:20:45 <Samu> supermop: 1 setting for all 4 behaviours, u there?
18:48:13 *** Guest7936 is now known as Prof_Frink
18:48:53 *** Prof_Frink is now known as Guest7939
19:24:19 <Cubey> Samu hey that looks pretty good, "Allow company owned stations to serve water industries" is direct and suitably descriptive
19:25:03 <Cubey> The "water industries" term is a bit novel as we discussed yesterday, but since it is explained in the helptext with the helpful example of oil rigs, it is fine
19:26:20 <Cubey> I would clean up the helptext a little, maybe "When enabled, industries with attached stations (such as Oil Rigs) may also be served by company owned stations built nearby." for the first sentence
19:27:33 <Cubey> "When disabled, these industries may only be served by their attached stations, and any nearby company owned stations won't be able to serve them."
19:27:39 <Cubey> For the second sentence
19:28:41 <Cubey> When I first saw this yesterday, it was not clear to me what the purpose of the patch was. Now i think it is pretty self-explanatory, as it should be
19:29:52 <Samu> it kind of feels bad removing stuff that was already done
19:31:56 <Cubey> Yeah it's like editing in writing
19:32:29 <Cubey> Sometimes trimming the fat is the best way to improve the whole, even though it feels like erasing work you've already done
19:33:01 <Samu> STR_CONFIG_SETTING_SERVE_WATER_INDUSTRIES_HELPTEXT :When enabled, industries with attached stations (such as Oil Rigs) may also be served by company owned stations built nearby. When disabled, these industries may only be served by their attached stations, and any nearby company stations won't be able to serve them
19:33:35 <Samu> STR_CONFIG_SETTING_SERVE_WATER_INDUSTRIES :Allow company owned stations to serve water industries: {STRING2}
19:34:29 <Cubey> I wonder if you should just carry over the "industries with attached stations" terminology from the helptext over to the main string
19:35:21 <Cubey> However others might disagree if they see "water industries" as an established shorthand for that
19:35:34 <Samu> yes, there's still some size left before horizontal scrolling
19:36:30 <Cubey> I worry a little bit about people misunderstanding "attached stations" to mean something like "stations placed directly adjacent to the industry"
19:36:54 <Samu> sometimes I call them "neutral stations"
19:37:37 <Cubey> Both are descriptive yet somewhat problematic
19:38:01 <Cubey> So I guess it just comes down to the helptext to cover the ambiguity
19:39:01 <Samu> i've been adding comments in the code, and damn, it's really hard to explain everything, feels like I'm writing a book just for a line of code
19:39:29 <Samu> /* Oil rig cargo is served by none other than Oil Rig stations, unless the setting is enabled */ if (on_water && !IsOilRigTile(st->xy) && !_settings_game.station.serve_water_industries) continue;
19:39:52 <Samu> this one is short, but i got some big ones
19:40:07 <Samu> /* Special case when there's more than one Oil Rig. Cargo served to Oil Rig station #1 comes only from Oil Rig #1 and not from any other Oil Rig */ if (on_water && IsOilRigTile(st->xy) && source_type == ST_INDUSTRY && !IsStationIndustryPair(st, source_id) && !_settings_game.station.serve_water_industries) continue;
19:41:40 <Samu> /* The station accepting the cargo is a neutral station (station 1) belonging to an industry (industry 1), * but there may be other neutral stations nearby (station n) belonging to their respective industries (industry n). * Is the station accepting the cargo (station 1) a part of the industry it's attached to (industry 1)? */
19:42:01 <Samu> if (HasIndustryStation(ind) && IsOilRigTile(st->xy) && !IsStationIndustryPair(st, ind->index) && !_settings_game.station.serve_water_industries) continue;
19:44:54 <Samu> i'm not uploading v4 yet, because i dunno what to do when the base code is also bugged
19:46:09 <Samu> CargoMonitor.cpp AddCargoDelivery
19:48:11 <Samu> when it deals with industry delivery, it does not match the behaviour of DeliverGoodsToIndustry on economy.cpp
19:48:32 <Samu> the monitorizing is broken
19:49:13 *** Guest7939 is now known as Prof_Frink
19:49:45 *** Prof_Frink is now known as Guest7943
19:51:06 <Samu> peter1138: u still away?
19:51:18 <Samu> wanted to report this bug before I proceed with my own changes
20:00:34 <Samu> guess i'm posting v4 anyway
20:20:37 <Wolf01> <Samu> i'm not uploading v4 yet, because i dunno what to do when the base code is also bugged <- fix the base code in a separate patch
20:37:58 <Samu> i fix it in a way, then 1.8.0 or so comes out and it's fixed in another way, and rips my code :(
20:40:45 <Samu> and usually you fix it better than me
20:41:13 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd
20:43:31 <andythenorth> is chlorine heavy industry enough? o_O
20:45:44 <frosch123> you can combine glass with some serious acids
20:47:19 <frosch123> glass + hydrofluoric acid -> goods
20:48:10 <frosch123> also works with steel and copper
20:48:26 <frosch123> though those use way less serious stuff than hydrofluoric acid
20:50:13 *** Guest7943 is now known as Prof_Frink
20:50:45 *** Prof_Frink is now known as Guest7944
20:52:08 <andythenorth> I am going to add some badass chemicals cluster
20:52:48 <frosch123> chemicals and acids would also work with paper
20:53:18 <frosch123> both in paper production, and in making printing plates
20:53:53 <frosch123> wood + chlor -> paper, steel + acid -> printing plate, paper + printing plate -> goods
20:56:41 <frosch123> hmm, no, printing plates actually use aluminum
20:59:12 <andythenorth> aluminium is possible
20:59:15 <andythenorth> but seems too modern
20:59:21 <andythenorth> even though it's not :P
20:59:44 <andythenorth> salt -> chlorine, caustic sod
20:59:49 <frosch123> yeah, so mechanical printing plate, no photo-plates :)
20:59:56 <andythenorth> caustic soda -> aluminium plant :P
21:00:19 <andythenorth> Arctic Basic has sulphuric acid -> paper mill btw
21:00:31 <andythenorth> generic 'chemicals' is less interesting than more detailed ones
21:01:00 <frosch123> yeah, hydrofluoric acid does hardly sound dangerous :p
21:01:11 <frosch123> it has "hydro" in it :)
21:04:37 *** oskari89 has joined #openttd
21:31:18 <Eddi|zuHause> and flour is also not dangerous at all
21:38:05 <Eddi|zuHause> debdog: i know, that was half of the joke :p
21:38:31 <debdog> hehe, soryy, not yet used to the humor in here
21:40:06 <Eddi|zuHause> (the other half being that "flour" and "fluor" are vastly different things)
21:41:49 <Eddi|zuHause> (and the third half is that "hydro", as in water, is the cause for like 90% of the damage caused by natural disasters)
21:44:40 <frosch123> also, water is de-hydrating
21:51:14 *** Guest7944 is now known as Prof_Frink
21:51:41 *** Progman has joined #openttd
21:51:45 *** Prof_Frink is now known as Guest7947
22:03:39 <supermop> andythenorth: i've often wondered that
22:04:03 <supermop> i am too young to have ever seen non-shiny oilr refineries though
22:04:14 <andythenorth> I can do oil -> refinery, or use the tank farm as a source
22:04:24 <supermop> so i don't know if a dark one would look odd
22:04:31 <andythenorth> I never thought oil refinery fits in steeltown
22:04:37 <supermop> isn't tank farm equally shiny?
22:04:47 <supermop> we have them in the rust belt
22:04:55 <andythenorth> yes, but it doesn't matter somehow that it's shiny
22:05:36 <supermop> not exactly sure why, but they exist at some distance from most large american cities, even outside of oil producing regions
22:05:57 <frosch123> but i guess tanks should not be white
22:06:11 <supermop> i guess with fracking most of the rust belt is technically an oil producing region now
22:06:27 <supermop> agree with frosch123 - it's the tanks than make it look modern
22:06:54 <supermop> haha what is with the chlorine content marketing
22:07:48 <supermop> espescially because consumers are rarely in a position to make a decision about buying chlorine
22:08:05 <supermop> if you have a pool, you don't really have a choice
22:08:27 <supermop> andythenorth: the choice though is buy chlorine or lose the tub
22:08:37 <supermop> not buy chlorine or something else
22:08:38 <andythenorth> cargo label for caustic soda. NaOH?
22:08:46 <andythenorth> there is bromine alternative
22:08:50 <andythenorth> or getting diseases
22:08:53 <andythenorth> both valid options
22:09:11 <supermop> i think your hot tub will clog up with algae first
22:09:21 <andythenorth> nah, there is separate algaecide
22:09:34 <andythenorth> there is a thing called hot tub ear
22:09:40 <supermop> pool might not notice it going bad until you get some amoeba eating your brain
22:09:43 <andythenorth> which breeds nicely at 39 degrees
22:10:08 <andythenorth> so NAOH, or CAUS?
22:13:50 <V453000> I see a flexible cargo system is more than a requirement for a train set which is hoping to cope with andy's ideas :D
22:14:28 <supermop> hmm bad day to be a cyclist here
22:14:54 <Eddi|zuHause> V453000: that is an almost impossible task :p
22:16:30 <Eddi|zuHause> V453000: just imagine you're MB, and you released a popular set 12 years ago, and made some halfbaked inflexible cargo addon 5 years ago
22:16:48 <frosch123> andythenorth: SOAP ?
22:23:22 <andythenorth> frosch123: SOAP tempting
22:23:29 <andythenorth> might be quite...aggressive at cleaning
22:24:34 <andythenorth> there is soda ash already, which makes me think lye is better
22:26:51 <glx> I think vehicles should just be designed to carry a kind of cargo but not an explicit cargo
22:27:12 <frosch123> if soda ash is SASH, then sody lye should be SLYE
22:27:48 <frosch123> glx: V drew sprites for 100 cargos or so
22:28:35 <glx> even cargo not imagined by andy yet ?
22:28:37 <andythenorth> glx: interesting idea, you should circulate a newsletter ;)
22:28:42 <andythenorth> or maybe a forum post
22:29:17 <frosch123> [22:28] <glx> even cargo not imagined by andy yet ? <- V453000: up for the challenge? :p
22:29:36 <frosch123> predict what andy adds next
22:33:52 <andythenorth> interesting idea
22:33:57 <andythenorth> I hadn't considered that
22:35:16 <andythenorth> also, label for Chlorine?
22:36:46 <frosch123> andythenorth: whey would go into the chemical economy
22:37:02 <Eddi|zuHause> vowels are just decoration anyway
22:37:16 <andythenorth> frosch123 is it not better in the Cheese economy? :o
22:37:53 <frosch123> it's a side-product of cheese, and input to chemicals
22:37:55 <Eddi|zuHause> it's the greeks who started this vowel business, everyone else was happy with just writing down the consonants
22:44:01 <Samu> there is a bug with AddCargoDelivery, wish someone else than me could fix it
22:47:33 <andythenorth> ok I am running out of room for cargos now in this steel-punk economy :)
22:47:54 <andythenorth> historically, it has been harder to add cargos to FIRS than remove them :D
22:48:31 <andythenorth> does the game actually work if there's no goods?
22:52:14 *** Guest7947 is now known as Prof_Frink
22:52:45 *** Prof_Frink is now known as Guest7949
22:55:15 <Samu> busybee tells me to send wood to Rinfingpool Bridge Sawmill
22:55:36 <Samu> but it's Getborough Market Sawmill that is taking it
22:55:48 <Samu> and yet it still counts towards the goal
22:55:59 <Samu> the bug is not on busibee
22:56:03 <ST2> getting a solution, that's another story :S
22:56:19 <Samu> the trunk, openttd itself
22:56:21 <andythenorth> electrical machines cargo, or goods?
22:56:28 <ST2> never explored to there ^^
22:57:23 <Samu> the monitoring function is not mimicing the behaviour of cargo delivery
22:58:22 <frosch123> andythenorth: the game may work better without goods :p
22:58:41 <frosch123> you can replace goods with vehicles
22:59:06 <andythenorth> also I can't fit in the full salt -> chlorine + ethylene -> pvc compounds + copper -> wires -> electrical machines chain :P
22:59:49 <Samu> looks like im gonna fix it myself
22:59:56 <Samu> lel, while i'm at it, why not
23:00:02 * andythenorth wonders how houses break if there's no goods
23:01:24 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: there's no reason why the game wouldn't work without goods, but you probably should add TE_GOODS to some cargo, because citybuilder scripts will probably require one
23:02:04 <Samu> that bug you reported st2, seems to be about industry index
23:02:20 <andythenorth> probably I should just try it
23:02:29 <Samu> the iron ore probably existed, then closed, and a new industry popups taking the index that used to belong to the iron ore
23:02:36 <ST2> most can be be adjusted - no TE_GOODS won't matter on CB's - since all cargo types can be used for it, no need for TownEffect
23:03:18 <Eddi|zuHause> ST2: i was using "citybuilder" as a generic term here, not for any specific script which may happen to be called citybuilder
23:03:43 <ST2> ok, then, I recall my words then ^^
23:04:10 <Samu> it seems yet again related to cargomonitoring logs once again
23:04:30 <Samu> i must investigate how industry indexes are generated
23:05:12 <Eddi|zuHause> so, i played through one game of civ6 in this (long) weekend, in 30 hours
23:05:23 <andythenorth> hmm chlorine plant -> hydrochloric acid -> steel finishing
23:05:52 <ST2> Eddi|zuHause: I guess that both of us need to split on what a CityBuilder and a TownBuilder, since OpenTTD have different behaviours for both ^^
23:07:49 <Eddi|zuHause> this would be the right time to start a new one, but i'm out of weekend
23:07:56 * andythenorth can't really fit a chlorine chain in this economy eh :P
23:08:09 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: make a chlorine economy? :p
23:08:23 <andythenorth> I tested a chemicals economy, but meh
23:08:32 <andythenorth> lots of cargos in tank wagons
23:08:45 <Eddi|zuHause> what's wrong with that?
23:09:02 <andythenorth> limited cargo graphics
23:09:14 <andythenorth> I could revisit it
23:09:23 <andythenorth> probably just needs a twist
23:10:10 <Eddi|zuHause> a farming-focused economy probably could deal with lots of chemicals
23:10:41 <Samu> there can only be 65535 industries in the world, sounds small for a 4kx4k map
23:11:21 <andythenorth> that's the problem ass backwards samu :)
23:11:31 <andythenorth> 4kx4k map is stupid :)
23:12:01 <frosch123> andythenorth: do you produce chloring from salt?
23:12:12 <Samu> index from 0 to 65534, while 65535 is used for INVALID_INDUSTRY
23:13:30 <andythenorth> frosch123: I've pushed, waiting for bundles to update docs
23:16:04 <zerm> i seriously need to get better at making junctions
23:20:10 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai
23:21:27 <Samu> INSTANTIATE_POOL_METHODS(Industry)
23:21:36 <Samu> i have no idea how this works
23:21:53 <Samu> but this is the thing that attributes indexes to industries
23:22:25 <andythenorth> chlorine chain stops dead :)
23:22:29 <andythenorth> probably won't work
23:22:46 <andythenorth> aim was pvc -> wire, maybe vehicle parts
23:23:59 <andythenorth> and I wanted to get Pipe back in :P
23:25:53 <Samu> i don't think i can fix this myself, seems complicated enough for me
23:26:45 <Samu> it requires creating a temporary log, recording the amount is delivered, and to which industry
23:27:01 <Samu> so that the other function read from it
23:27:43 *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd
23:28:25 <Samu> i need DeliverGoodsToIndustry to communicate with AddCargoDelivery
23:28:39 <Samu> they're both called by DeliverGoods
23:28:50 <frosch123> you only add the chemical plant for the liquids terminal?
23:29:10 <Samu> wait, let me post a link to the code
23:30:38 <Eddi|zuHause> chlorine->cleaning materials->supermarket?
23:30:54 <frosch123> you could add wood and paper
23:31:03 <Eddi|zuHause> (has nothing to do with steel, though)
23:31:12 <andythenorth> I think paper is kind of arctic
23:31:16 <frosch123> paper can be used instead of plastic in the metal workshop
23:31:16 <andythenorth> maybe chlorine doesn't fit
23:31:38 <Samu> line 1107 is DeliverGoodsToIndustry
23:32:03 <Samu> then later on, in the same function, at line 1130, it reports the data to the monitor
23:32:06 <andythenorth> unless I cut out zinc, copper
23:32:16 <frosch123> wood can also be processed into engsup, and it can go to assembly plant
23:33:42 <frosch123> i think adding wood/paper is a nicer option than adding oil
23:33:44 <andythenorth> you're pushing the 1910 trucks :)
23:33:54 <andythenorth> oil is always boring :P
23:34:33 <andythenorth> I'd need ethylene or acetylene to go with chlorine
23:34:51 <andythenorth> at least 2 more cargos, I have 1 slot left :P
23:34:57 <Samu> and line 1115, jesus i'm so drunk
23:35:40 <andythenorth> ok tomorrow is a new idea ;)
23:35:59 <andythenorth> frosch123: wood + coal tar from coke plant = ensp :P
23:36:10 <andythenorth> but already both outputs are used
23:36:33 <andythenorth> constraints are good, but sometimes the 2 outputs limit at industries is a tough constraint
23:36:36 <frosch123> i thought of wood for mines
23:36:45 <frosch123> to build tunnel support
23:36:54 <andythenorth> yeah, that's in extreme
23:37:04 <andythenorth> wood + chemicals = pit props
23:37:26 <andythenorth> coke plant would provide exact chemicals :P
23:37:35 <andythenorth> but I need the sulphur for tyres
23:38:01 <andythenorth> maybe that's adjustable
23:39:19 <Samu> hmm, there's a static SmallIndustryList _cargo_delivery_destinations;
23:39:38 <Samu> it keeps track of industries receiving cargos
23:39:49 <Samu> how to make use of this information for the monitor?
23:53:14 *** Guest7949 is now known as Prof_Frink
23:53:45 *** Prof_Frink is now known as Guest7953
continue to next day ⏵
