IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2017-10-22
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00:01:28 <Samu> i'm experimenting weird stuff
00:06:08 <Samu> I try too much and achieve too little :(
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00:39:30 <Samu> can you recude the cost of refiting the default cargo ships just a tiny little bit?
00:40:07 <Samu> I'm short of £100 to create 4 cargo ships with £150k loan
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02:06:32 <Samu> i cheated a little bit with the refit cost of ship
02:08:05 <Samu> instead of costing £571, i made it cost £285
02:08:36 <Samu> a subtle change, allowed me to build 4 coal ships within £150k loan
02:12:19 <Samu> there's other subtle changes in the road costs, the three first used halved road costs using BaseCosts Mod
02:13:16 <Samu> the other used a direct change within the price table, there's a difference of £1 per road piece between the two methods
02:14:04 <Samu> oh well, be back tomorrow, cyas
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05:08:21 <Flygon> Very random thought - It'd be kinda neat to be able to set specific towns to ALWAYS be "Fund New Buildings"ed when the previous cycle runs out automatically.
05:08:27 <Flygon> Kinda like.. uh, Age of Empires II's farms?
05:08:37 <Flygon> Where you can buy them in advance and they get renewed automatically.
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10:06:43 <Eddi|zuHause> Flygon: that was not in original AoE II
10:07:20 <Flygon> Yeah. I remember... heheheheheheheh.
10:07:27 <Flygon> I didn't have the expansion for so many years.
10:07:54 <Eddi|zuHause> Flygon: the problem here is that after fund new buildings, the people will demand the same thing for exclusive rights
10:17:29 <Flygon> I understand the issue. :(
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15:06:35 <V453000> I'm going to try to not use After Effects in my next project. :D
15:06:43 <V453000> shit can get rather annoying
15:10:32 <andythenorth> what would I do?
15:11:19 <V453000> probably ponder it for a month and then do something revolutionary
15:11:48 <andythenorth> more like, try all the options
15:11:52 <andythenorth> make 10, delete 9
15:12:05 <andythenorth> I would do blue, because we know water is blue
15:12:09 <andythenorth> even though it rarely is
15:12:20 <andythenorth> kids draw water from taps as blue
15:13:29 <V453000> let's see what comes out
15:13:35 <V453000> am almost finished with all the stuff
15:21:17 <Samu> guys, regarding water color in the mini-map, sometimes I wish it wasn't blue
15:21:56 <Samu> because there's dark blue companies and it's hard to tell them apart
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15:25:23 <andythenorth> suggest alternatives? o_O
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16:58:00 <Samu> how do i turn off autorenew for all companies, without having to change this one by one per company?
17:03:05 <Samu> diesel engines are too cheap :( they need a weakness
17:06:16 <Samu> weight multiplier, should suffice
17:09:17 <Alberth> there is no global autorenew control, afaik
17:13:03 <V453000> andythenorth: just using a different index would work :)
17:16:37 <Samu> floss 47 is better than sh 30 and sh 40, :(
17:17:42 <Samu> with weight multiplier x3, floss 47 goes behind sh 40
17:17:57 <Samu> still... ahead of sh 30, i don't quite like it, but oh well
17:19:13 <andythenorth> what is bothering you about it?
17:19:46 <Samu> electric rail cost is making sh 30 route shorter than floss 47 route
17:19:46 <V453000> andythenorth: probably money wise
17:20:07 <Samu> floss 47, even though a weaker machine, still profits more
17:20:11 * andythenorth suspects that if SH 30 was better than Floss 47
17:20:20 <andythenorth> we’d be having same conversation, with names swapped
17:20:47 <V453000> profit really isn't the whole story of the game
17:21:10 <andythenorth> Samu: what variables do you have? Which acceleration, what slopes are you testing on, what curves are in your route, what’s your signal length? How contended are the routes?
17:21:15 <V453000> if you have many trains on your network, SH30 will make them accelerate faster and thus make more profit in total because your network has more capacity
17:21:44 <Samu> im using a big straight line
17:21:59 <V453000> yeah which is inferior to networking
17:22:00 <Samu> so, best case scenario, single line
17:22:03 <andythenorth> cargo support is *expenseive*
17:22:14 <andythenorth> compile time is totally slammed by every cargo
17:22:39 <andythenorth> especially because I run them all through random switches to offer multiple versions per label
17:22:47 <Samu> realistic acceleration, no slopes, i use breakdowns
17:23:02 <V453000> how long do you compile?
17:23:20 <andythenorth> it’s about 1 minute
17:23:31 <V453000> ......................
17:23:35 <V453000> YETI compiles for hours
17:24:28 <andythenorth> I make way too many mistakes for that :P
17:28:40 <V453000> + some colours and a bit more variety
17:31:52 <Samu> i'm also using a special openttd which makes industry production to never change
17:32:11 <Samu> always a 120/135 coal production
17:34:29 <Samu> sh 125 is a really neat engine, it beats T.I.M. under a £150k loan, but i suppose that's okay, i should try bigger loans
17:35:02 <supermop> lego climate, mecano climate, brio climate
17:35:51 <andythenorth> isn’t SH 125 ultimate?
17:35:54 <Samu> oh, i need to test the 1975/1985 trucks, see how they fare against the trains of that time
17:35:56 <andythenorth> especially with coal :P
17:49:18 <Eddi|zuHause> SH215 was terrible
17:50:17 <Eddi|zuHause> it you lose 1 wagon, and you have this mail capacity which destroys all your full load orders
17:54:20 <_dp_> sh125 is the best starting loco, beats everything else including mono and maglev
17:54:29 <_dp_> that mail thing is a bit stupid though indeed
17:56:20 <_dp_> and in a long run it looses to faster vehicles ofc
17:56:47 <Alberth> all engines but the fastest one do :)
17:57:12 <Gustavo6046> My pathfinder is mostly working :D
17:57:37 <_dp_> i certainly missed something here xD
17:57:57 <Eddi|zuHause> _dp_: SH125 never was available at "starting" in any games i played :p
17:58:38 <_dp_> Gustavo6046, is this for AI?
17:59:22 <_dp_> Eddi|zuHause, you certainly didn't play much on citymania :p
17:59:42 <_dp_> for earlier eges it's pretty much the same stuff with fastest being the best
18:14:51 <Gustavo6046> drive-thru stations needs different functions
18:15:50 <andythenorth> compile takes 50% less time if I drop cargo support
18:16:50 <andythenorth> try and make it faster?
18:17:05 <andythenorth> or add a compile flag to drop cargos optionally when developing?
18:20:36 <Gustavo6046> what did I do wrong ;_;
18:23:11 <V453000> realism claims iz copper
18:23:28 <V453000> brix tree = brown trunky part at the bottom, top is oxidized
18:30:24 <andythenorth> make compile faster then :(
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18:43:48 <Samu> intresting... dual track in 1985 with £150k only makes chaney jubilee shine
18:44:24 <Samu> i really got to raise loan to £200k
18:44:43 <Samu> time to re-test everything :( boring
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18:57:58 <andythenorth> I’ve never used recolour sprites
18:58:06 <andythenorth> is a 1CC<->2CC swap easy?
19:00:05 <supermop> let me know what you find because i could use tha
19:00:46 <andythenorth> would cut about 45% of compile
19:01:07 <andythenorth> encoding sprites appears to be slow
19:01:11 <supermop> would save me a bunch of pngs
19:05:52 <andythenorth> hth does it work?
19:06:04 <andythenorth> can I just remap 1CC to 2CC?
19:06:17 <andythenorth> or do I have to remap for all possible 2CC colour values?
19:06:22 <supermop> idk the specs page wasnt that clear to me
19:06:39 <supermop> i think some remaps are already built in for cc?
19:07:24 <andythenorth> I’d probably have to read nml source
19:07:35 <andythenorth> how much work will I do to save 20s per compile?
19:16:01 <frosch123> andythenorth: remapping 2cc is dead easy
19:17:02 <andythenorth> I should probably do that then
19:17:08 <andythenorth> I need to swap 2cc and 1cc
19:17:10 <frosch123> the colormap callback just returns a pair of colors to use, which can use any variables, including the actual ccs, or using random values or fixed values, ...
19:18:52 <frosch123> colour_mapping : return base_sprite_2cc + 16 * company_color1 + company_color2; <- swaps the cc
19:21:09 <supermop> older tram pulling a tram trailer
19:21:21 <supermop> should they both have same livery style?
19:21:52 <supermop> or use SELF in switch because maybe they hook an old tram up to a new trailer?
19:22:51 <andythenorth> ok so I just swap current random switches to 2CC realsprites
19:22:59 <andythenorth> and replace them with the recolour cb
19:24:49 <supermop> I was wondering why sprites for this one tram are iffy, then I realized that I never finished writing the switches
19:36:36 <andythenorth> my code is growing “ridiculous micro-optimisation” comments :P
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19:49:59 <Gustavo6046> Any possible conditions for AIRoad::BuildDriveThroughRoadStation to return ERR_UNKNOWN?
19:55:41 <supermop> hmm why does my first parcel tram not show up
20:03:02 <supermop> oops: apparently diesel box trucks cannot refit to mail, but trolley box trucks can
20:04:06 <supermop> nothing in there seems different than following tram to me, which does show up
20:08:11 <supermop> though aparrently i am not using my capacity switch
20:08:33 <frosch123> you are not setting climate
20:09:18 <supermop> must have pasted over that line when pasting in the cargo clasees
20:11:56 <andythenorth> supermop: you need templating :D
20:16:25 <andythenorth> frosch123: company_color1 is unrecognised identifier
20:16:35 * andythenorth trying to figure out which constant it should be from docs
20:17:07 <frosch123> uk english for some reason
20:17:14 <andythenorth> it’s like reverse-css :P
20:17:25 <andythenorth> normally I have that problem inverted
20:17:57 <andythenorth> ok that’s a winner
20:18:01 <andythenorth> just need to randomise it
20:19:26 <V453000> I used to quite consistently use uk english
20:19:31 <V453000> now it's a fucking mess
20:19:40 <V453000> every place uses color or colour differently
20:21:58 <Eddi|zuHause> there should be one standard to unify all the standards
20:22:21 <andythenorth> you could start the commitee
20:22:34 <andythenorth> first we’d need to agree what language the commitee should keep notes
20:23:10 <frosch123> i suggest to use "colur", so there is no loser
20:24:44 <Eddi|zuHause> oh man that was a long time ago
20:25:17 <andythenorth> when vowels were scarce
20:25:39 <frosch123> doesn't old hebrew skip all vowels?
20:26:01 <Eddi|zuHause> they got that from the phoenecians
20:26:30 <Eddi|zuHause> who started all this alphabet business
20:26:39 <Eddi|zuHause> it's the greeks who screwed that up
20:26:59 <Eddi|zuHause> because their language practically only consisted of vowels
20:28:53 <Eddi|zuHause> skipping vowels is more like the default state of writing
20:29:50 <Eddi|zuHause> from sumerian cuneiform and egyptian hieroglyphs to modern arabic
20:29:58 <andythenorth> Horse compile is now ridiculously faster :P
20:30:10 <andythenorth> thanks frosch123
20:32:10 <frosch123> just don't add 12 more generations :)
20:32:47 <andythenorth> I have to add more rosters :P
20:32:52 <andythenorth> or split them to separate grfs
20:33:08 <andythenorth> seriously considering reusing wagons across all, and doing a lot of cb36 :P
20:33:21 <frosch123> rosters sound like they would only alter engines, not wagons
20:33:32 <andythenorth> for some cases yes
20:33:47 <andythenorth> sprites are no longer realistic UK wagons
20:42:12 <Samu> i got some interesting results with a 200k loan, starting with 1985 vehicles
21:06:52 <andythenorth> supermop: ok CC swap sorted :)
21:07:54 <andythenorth> the ${} is templating language, you’d have to swap that
21:09:15 <andythenorth> it uses FORWARD_SELF(0) so that units in articulated consists all have the same recolour
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21:36:03 <V453000> 2 more photoshop tasks
21:38:00 <andythenorth> compile was > 60 seconds
21:38:35 <V453000> I wouldn't care about that :D
21:43:10 <V453000> I guess I am defeated on the 'make water blue' front
21:43:15 <andythenorth> dark blue is classy eh
21:43:41 <V453000> I think it's fitting, it's not like you can have any vehicles on water anyway
21:43:58 <andythenorth> you will have to redraw wetrail
21:44:02 <V453000> so don't need to highlight water
21:44:14 <V453000> wetrail is brighter cause it has vehicles
21:44:18 <andythenorth> what colour shores will you do?
21:44:29 <V453000> currently planning no shores
21:44:48 <andythenorth> should do what needs done now
21:44:50 <andythenorth> other things later
21:45:22 <andythenorth> how do I stop make printing the commands?
21:45:22 <V453000> you caught me red handed starting to think about what to do
21:45:27 <andythenorth> but not the output from the commands?
21:45:31 <V453000> idk I don't use make :P
21:45:39 <andythenorth> @ isn’t doing what I want :P
21:46:18 <frosch123> or ".SILENT:" in the Makefile
21:49:32 <andythenorth> maybe I was using @ wrong
21:58:56 <andythenorth> frosch123: seems that number of spritesheets kills nml performance much more than number of realsprites or switches
21:59:12 * andythenorth has no science, just a lot of timed runs
22:53:12 <andythenorth> slopey things are horrible to draw :P
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