IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2017-10-18
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00:07:55 <supermop_> andythenorth: i can see the light at the end of the tunnel with my broken trams
00:08:04 <supermop_> so now i need to break buses again
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01:56:07 <Gustavo6046> Any way to speed up maglev uphills?
01:57:07 <supermop> realistic acceleration on?
02:36:50 <Gustavo6046> a NewGRF? then no
02:36:57 <supermop> no it is a game setting
02:37:22 <supermop> with original acceleration even powerful trains struggle on hills
02:37:58 <supermop> with realistic acceleration, if a train already has a high speed and hits a small hill, it will not slow down much
02:38:55 <supermop> and also, with realistic acceleration on, you might notice that trains with several locomotives can at least take advantage of that extra power
02:39:53 <supermop> go to settings menu, -> vehicles -> physics
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08:58:09 <V453000> andythenorth I think I have an ultimate plan for 32bpp wagons
08:58:28 <V453000> wagons come in multiple generations, that bit is obvious
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08:58:58 <V453000> and they share loading stages, say, 0-10 ... point is, using sprite layering I can use bottom-wagon-part, cargo, top-wagon-part
08:59:17 <V453000> so for example 1st generation has loading stages 1-3, second 1-5, third 1-6, last 1-10
08:59:40 <V453000> and the bottom-wagon-part and top-wagon-part changes with each generation, just respects the dimensions of the other wagons
08:59:45 <V453000> since all are 8/8, should work
08:59:58 <andythenorth> so wtf do they look like?
09:00:01 <andythenorth> and how many types?
09:00:05 <andythenorth> just one ultimate type?
09:00:12 <andythenorth> or original base set types?
09:00:25 <V453000> well it's going to be 1 wagon id, but the graphics will randomize
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09:00:41 <V453000> and cargo/wagon colours will adjust by colour masks
09:00:51 <andythenorth> wagons are the most neglected thing in newgrf
09:00:55 <V453000> so it's just 1 sprite per variation, and 1 cargo sprite per variation
09:00:59 <andythenorth> literally nobody has done better than base set yet
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09:01:28 <V453000> some nuts wagons are pretty good, but not consistent enough
09:01:54 <V453000> with this I am mainly trying to get the most variety with the least amount of sprites and the least amount of work :P
09:04:23 <V453000> the biggest issue will be see-through tankers :)
09:04:56 <V453000> but I think it wil work, will just need careful photoshitting ... but if it's "just a few" sprites instead of thousands, it's already much more convenient to work with
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10:30:04 <andythenorth> van-driving time
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11:05:55 <crem> When people Western European countries have fever, where do they usually measure a body temperature? In exUSSR countries everyone measures under an arm, but it seems that in other countries the most popular is to measure in mouth.
11:07:35 <Wolf01> Ear, forehead, or armpit, depends on which instrument you have here
11:07:38 <milda> im swedish, and we measure mouth first, arm later.
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15:26:54 <supermop_> most households have oral thermometer. growing up we also had a forehead thermometer so we used that
15:34:00 <supermop_> typically don't need to make someone get undressed just to check their fever
15:35:03 <supermop_> also person with thermometer sticking out of their mouth is visual trope / gag for illness
15:48:15 <crem> I once bought in-ear thermometer in US. Turned out it recalculated temperature to what it would be in mouth!
15:48:35 <crem> That's weird, as I never measured it in mouth.
15:49:29 <supermop_> the ear ones are kind of expensive
15:49:39 <supermop_> usually they are pretty fast though
15:51:15 <supermop_> most lay people here only know roughly healthy temperature for most people by mouth, and then maybe what their personal norm difference from that is
15:51:46 <supermop_> if it is a consumer facing product it is easier to give them a familiar reference
15:51:54 <crem> it somehow broke for me and now shows lower temperature than it should, by ~2 Kelvin.
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16:17:35 <supermop_> hmm i think i figured out why frosch's code doesn't progress beyond the 2nd livery
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16:26:08 <supermop_> there is no way for the A to B switches to every point to the B to C switches
16:43:01 <Wolf01> Translate please: hochflur / niederflur... the only thing I understood is that's a corridor or a pavement, and visually doesn't change anything :|
16:49:17 <Gustavo6046> How does OpenTTD compute slopes?
16:55:26 <supermop_> i think he means for acceleration
16:59:50 <Gustavo6046> how do you represent slope data from a multidimensional array (I call them areas) of integer heights.
17:00:09 <Gustavo6046> since OpenTTD slopes are all 45°
17:00:45 <Alberth> they are all 0, +1, or -1 different from their surrounding points
17:01:28 <Alberth> you may want to look at how a heightmap is transformed
17:01:38 <Alberth> heightmap iamge, that is
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17:27:47 <Gustavo6046> Alberth, what I want is to do a sci-fi Java... clone is not the right word... inspired work
17:28:27 <Gustavo6046> But I'm stumped on how the slopes should be generated; in my game, slopes are a quarter of inclination, so 45° = 50m difference = 4 internally.
17:28:42 <Gustavo6046> But they are stored in an array of points; each tile is four points.
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18:16:22 <supermop_> andythenorth: destinations for coffee sounds fine as a consequence of express distribution category to me
18:21:31 <supermop_> tbh i sometimes just make everything have distribution on
18:25:35 <Alberth> Gustavo6046: simplest is select random rectangle, and pull all points up or pull all points down by one. I a neighbour point becomes too far away ( < -1 or > 1) drag it up/down too, until all non-dragged neighbours are eitgher in the -1..1 range, or you run out of surface in the game area
18:26:01 <Gustavo6046> but nevermind anyway
18:26:14 <Gustavo6046> I've got a different strategy
18:26:30 <Gustavo6046> my game will use slopes at any angle, with points at any height
18:27:21 <Alberth> that would work, if you draw tiles eg in a GPU, but not when you have fixed sprites, like OpenTTD
18:28:33 <Alberth> with current hardware your approach is very feasible, you see lots of games doing that
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18:58:18 <supermop_> frosch123: maybe this works better:
18:59:50 <frosch123> line 169 probably should say 1985
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19:00:45 <frosch123> it's getting kind of long :p
19:01:47 <frosch123> anyway, does this still compile?
19:02:23 <frosch123> it seems to use 10 random bits when there are only 8
19:04:30 <supermop_> haven't compiled it since i changed the 'default' of 'testdown_e4_x' to point to 'maybe_e4_x+1', but before that change it compiled fine
19:05:43 <supermop_> the problem was that nothing in the livery B upgrade switch pointed to the livery c swtiches, so a tram could never upgrade farther than A -> B
19:06:02 <supermop_> but it did work very nicely in going from a to b
19:08:25 <supermop_> going to try compiling now
19:11:38 <frosch123> btw. i was wondering whether you should just upgrade one vehicle per month
19:12:38 <frosch123> you can check the train number via newgrf, and could then select the livery by "date + number*30" or something
19:14:10 <supermop_> date_of_last_service returns a yyyy,mm,dd. is there an easy way to get just the yyy from that?
19:14:34 <frosch123> and offset by 2 years of leap days
19:14:54 <frosch123> (date_of_last_service / 365 - 2)
19:15:06 <frosch123> should be good-enough (tm)
19:15:55 <supermop_> because i was thinking of a non-random way, where you just get the year of last service
19:15:56 <frosch123> well, maybe 500 leap days is closer to 1 year
19:16:29 <supermop_> and make livery based on what range the year of last service falls into
19:17:12 <frosch123> you can create a lot of seeminly-random data from variable
19:18:33 <frosch123> "date + (age_in_days mod 32)*30" and similar
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19:19:39 <frosch123> err, i mean "date + ((date-age_in_days) mod 32)*30"
19:20:21 <frosch123> or even easier, use the random bits to compute a upgrade year
19:20:36 <frosch123> "date + (random_bits mod 32)*30"
19:21:18 <frosch123> hmm, the more i think about it, the random_switch thingie was kind of stupid :p
19:22:47 <supermop_> well it compiled fine
19:23:05 <supermop_> let's see how it works
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19:26:26 <supermop_> actually maybe i will get lunch first
19:29:28 <supermop_> not sure if emoji works in irc so just imagine it
19:29:42 <frosch123> emoji only have heads, so does that mean headbanging emoji?
19:30:21 <supermop_> yeah this takes me from like 180 lines to 11
19:30:42 <supermop_> so ill need to find some other thing to make stupidly complex to compensate
20:02:03 <supermop_> a guy i interviewed with just texted to ask if it would be ok to send me a job offer
20:02:14 <supermop_> why not just email the offer
20:02:36 <frosch123> maybe your boss reads all your mail
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20:05:51 <Gustavo6046> Is having 55M from 1950 to 2150 normal?
20:06:46 <Gustavo6046> I meant from 2030 to 2150
20:08:24 <frosch123> income growth exponentially
20:08:40 <frosch123> no matter how fast you build, you cannot win the "spend everything" battle
20:09:46 <frosch123> though actualy... you can enable build-while-paused :)
20:10:18 <supermop_> frosch123: i find that is the only way to run out of money
20:10:32 <frosch123> anyway, various people set all costs to "low". high prices are no challenge in the long run, but only slow down the early game
20:10:53 <frosch123> so, "high prices" = "boring"
20:11:33 <frosch123> which is completely different to new players thinking "high prices" = "challenging" :p
20:11:45 <supermop_> what we need is extortionate train costs
20:12:01 <supermop_> so the manufacturer sets your price based on how much money you have
20:12:10 <supermop_> or a non-stupid inflation
20:12:47 <frosch123> what, an american with communist ideas? :p
20:13:10 <supermop_> frosch123: you must no know many young americans
20:13:38 <supermop_> also; it's purely capitalist on the part of the train manufacturer
20:13:43 <frosch123> my sister-in-law is american
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21:45:10 <supermop_> maybe i should let flatbeds carry scrap
21:45:23 <supermop_> and recolor tram bodies to be rusted out as cargo
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21:45:57 <supermop_> although dumping a whole tram into the arc furnace is a bit silly
21:46:07 <andythenorth> seems reasonable to me
21:46:43 <supermop_> i think this grf is almost a grf
21:46:53 <supermop_> need to add the purchase sprites
21:47:25 <supermop_> maybe adjust some costs and capacities
21:47:32 <supermop_> but seems generally playable
22:00:00 <andythenorth> Horse is…fucked :)
22:00:27 <andythenorth> every move I make to fix it causes a new problem
22:00:32 <andythenorth> it’s like some horrible puzzle game
22:00:34 * V453000 has procrastinated with OpenRCT2 for the last 2 evenings
22:01:56 <V453000> now I'm kind of triggered and want to do it again
22:04:04 <V453000> but almost finished with brix tracks
22:06:14 <V453000> last rail touches, fix roads, ship shit
22:06:22 <V453000> I could do endless amount of more stuff but eh
22:06:38 <V453000> clearly losing focus in the last few weeks
22:06:49 <V453000> procrastinating with RCT and thinking about new train set
22:06:50 <andythenorth> sometimes the only solution is to go over the top
22:06:53 <andythenorth> and then stop :P
22:07:35 <V453000> BRIX is kind of stable from my local using and I can always improve it if I really want
22:07:47 <V453000> and the progress from 0.0.1 is undescribable
22:14:30 <supermop_> hmm can remember how to resize a bunch of photos at once as a batch
22:16:19 <V453000> doesn't irfan view support it?
22:16:47 <andythenorth> automate / actions palette
22:17:17 <V453000> though I never really ventured in that direction I must admit
22:17:25 <V453000> idk why I never did actually
22:17:26 <andythenorth> it’s kind of shit
22:17:32 <andythenorth> it’s so nearly great
22:17:38 <V453000> I mostly heard it's awesomey
22:18:02 <andythenorth> how about after effects?
22:18:11 <andythenorth> import the folder as image sequence to a timeline
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22:18:20 <andythenorth> then resize that timeline on another timeline
22:18:26 <andythenorth> then re-export as image sequence
22:18:34 <andythenorth> AE solves everything
22:18:52 <supermop_> dont have that on work computer
22:18:55 <V453000> After Effects is about the worst program for scaling pictures
22:19:04 <V453000> you can't choose the algorithm and the one it uses is about the worst I ever saw
22:19:22 <V453000> in fact it's one of the last things I am doing with BRIX
22:19:23 <andythenorth> don’t you set the timeline codec?
22:19:29 <andythenorth> it’s been years since I used it :P
22:19:35 <andythenorth> is the timeline codec-independent?
22:19:46 <V453000> exporting parts befor scaling, scaling in python, and then reimporting
22:19:56 <V453000> I don't think the timeline is codec dependent
22:20:08 * andythenorth used to use it for anamorphic 16:9, where the pixels aren’t square
22:20:15 <andythenorth> and other weird broadcast shit
22:20:17 <V453000> and I don't think there is any way to influence the timeline by some way except purchasing expensive 3rd party downscaling software
22:20:27 <V453000> that's some weird shit :)
22:20:35 <andythenorth> making pixels work on analogue CRT was special
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22:20:54 <andythenorth> have to clamp white, because there’s a max intensity
22:21:00 <V453000> well, yeah ... AE is great in many ways but scaling is just holy shit bad
22:21:03 <andythenorth> and CRT pixels bleed
22:21:10 <andythenorth> also some red flickers
22:21:11 <V453000> if you discover something that breaks my illusion there, please tell me :D
22:21:22 * andythenorth doesn’t even have AE any more
22:21:36 <andythenorth> which per-day, costs me more than the mac it’s running on
22:21:43 <andythenorth> best not to think about that
22:22:21 <V453000> :DDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD
22:22:48 <V453000> well I'm paying the full cloud for 60e
22:23:03 <V453000> which yeah, is same as my pc price in 5 years
22:23:06 <V453000> time to reconsider :D
22:23:18 <andythenorth> my maths is off, photoshop is £0.66 / day
22:23:27 <andythenorth> the mac is £2 / day
22:23:42 <andythenorth> but if I had creative cloud, £1.63 / day
22:24:03 <V453000> hm so I pay 60, that makes 720e per year, say 3500 for 5 years
22:24:12 <andythenorth> if I was working freelance, £300 / day billable
22:24:16 <V453000> my computer had cost about 4000e
22:24:26 <V453000> and I thought the computer was expensive
22:24:27 <andythenorth> computer hardware is cheap
22:24:39 * andythenorth sells SaaS for a reason :P
22:24:49 <V453000> yeah, subsription pricing has it's reasons
22:25:36 <V453000> well, shit can I do, it's an important part of my worlflow :)
22:25:41 <andythenorth> I once had argument about buying computers for new employees
22:25:52 <andythenorth> someone else thought we shouldn’t be spending money on expensive computers
22:26:11 <andythenorth> but did think we needed the staff
22:26:18 <andythenorth> computer: £2 / day
22:26:23 <andythenorth> staff: £200 / day
22:28:55 <andythenorth> problem: adding wagons because they’re fun to draw
22:28:58 <andythenorth> no gameplay reason
22:29:24 <V453000> well roads are fixed :> was surprisingly easy
22:29:24 <andythenorth> problem: not adding wagons, because can’t figure out what to draw :P
22:29:37 <Eddi|zuHause> "In a belgian village all the clocks run wrong, because they temporarily switched the power grid to 51Hz during construction work"
22:32:22 <V453000> well maybe don't add them then andythenorth
22:32:27 <V453000> you can always add in future versions
22:32:36 <V453000> it's not like nuts had all the vehicles from 0.0.1
22:33:17 <V453000> you might even discover you don't need them later
22:45:38 <andythenorth> I have been deleting them
22:45:49 <andythenorth> possibly winning strategy
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23:41:34 <supermop_> do i need a switch for purchase sprite, or can i just do "purchase: spriteset_x" in graphics section
23:45:40 <Eddi|zuHause> can have a spriteset directly
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