IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2017-10-15
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00:40:41 <Eddi|zuHause> Wolf01: clearly keyboards will be replaced by minority-report-like gestures
00:40:54 <Eddi|zuHause> those are obviously way superior
00:41:14 <Wolf01> Yeah, Elon already show it IRL
00:42:05 <Wolf01> But I don't think we'll see it in homes, maybe in some companies
01:16:25 <supermop_> I think I am missing something for this random livery stuff
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01:24:45 <Greyfur_> Supermop_ You are doing random livery road vehicles?
01:25:00 <supermop_> not entirely random
01:25:10 <Greyfur_> That is something I have been recently doing for Karosa ýéé buses myself...
01:25:35 <supermop_> the idea is that a tram might be in service for 40-50 years
01:25:59 <supermop_> and maybe even though it is old, sometimes it gets a 'new' livery
01:26:33 <supermop_> and it should only get the new livery if it is in the depot for service
01:26:34 <Greyfur_> Ok, so does the livery change base on current year?
01:26:51 <supermop_> but not all trams get repainted right away
01:27:06 <supermop_> so it has maybe only a 25% of getting the new paint
01:27:33 <supermop_> and it never will get an 'old' livery to replace a new one
01:27:50 <Greyfur_> I understand, so based on current year a % chance it will be repainted
01:28:09 <supermop_> so the problem is, if every tram always immediately gets the new one, easy just have a current year switch
01:28:53 <supermop_> and if it is just a probability what livery to get, easy, just use random_bits
01:29:25 <supermop_> but to prevent new tram getting old livery, but also allow some old trams to keep old livery
01:29:37 <supermop_> you need some big code with random triggers
01:30:08 <supermop_> because otherwise trams have no storage to 'remember' their current livery
01:30:23 <supermop_> I don't know if it works yet
01:30:51 <Greyfur_> If you know what the old livery was and in which years it has been produced... I think you could do a build_year switch, which would then point towards the current year switch, which would then point towards random_switch
01:31:36 <supermop_> yes but lets say a tram is built 1970, with 1970 paint
01:32:23 <supermop_> it goes to depot in 1980, and switch says 'from 1979 to 1982, 25% chance of getting 1980 paint'
01:32:35 <supermop_> so tram gets lucky and gets new paint
01:32:55 <supermop_> now in 1981, maybe it goes to depot again, rolls dice again
01:33:15 <supermop_> but there is still 75% chance to get the 1970 paint,
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01:33:39 <supermop_> so now newly repainted tram gets painted back to the old
01:34:11 <Greyfur> yes, I see your point
01:34:18 <supermop_> so you need a way 'ratchet' the liveries
01:34:50 <supermop_> so 1970 ->1980 can happen, but 1980 -> 1970 cannot
01:35:13 <supermop_> I might give up and get rid of the random
01:35:29 <supermop_> because maybe most players do not send tram to depot often
01:35:53 <Greyfur> For custom texts, there is something like return CB_RESULT_NO_TEXT;
01:36:11 <Greyfur> Is there a way to get out of a wswitch without a change?
01:36:33 <supermop_> we couldn't figure one out
01:37:23 <supermop_> the tram doesn't really go 'into' the switch knowing it's current state, so there isn't a way to leave the switch with same state as it entered
01:38:03 <supermop_> the best way seems to be to just randomly trigger whether it goes to the switch at all
01:38:42 <supermop_> but I have never used random trigger before, so I don't know if I am doing it right
01:38:54 <Greyfur> but that already asks for an option to do no change at all
01:39:50 <Greyfur> I do have random triggers based on % chance
01:40:02 <supermop_> here is code frosch proposed for me
01:40:42 <Greyfur> I am picking realistic liveries based on the production year
01:41:16 <Greyfur> but you cannot base anything on productrion month, so I have to do it randomly within that year
01:43:13 <supermop_> you can use date of last service maybe?
01:43:38 <supermop_> it is set to the day of construction when you first build it
01:44:08 <supermop_> ofc it will reset everytime it goes to depot
01:44:43 <supermop_> but you could use a vehicle age switch to skip that one
01:45:09 <supermop_> so if vehicle is >1 day old, it no longer looks at date of last service
01:53:43 <Greyfur> That is a good idea. I will try it
02:03:57 <Flygon> <supermop_> so now newly repainted tram gets painted back to the old
02:04:08 <Flygon> Not like it hasn't happened before IRL - But it's not exactly all that likely.
02:04:35 <Flygon> (I'm still bermused that 90s V/Line was so ghetto that they ran some locomotives with 60s/70s VR livery still...)
02:05:16 <Flygon> (Granted, it's come in a full circle with some locomotives going VR Blue/Yellow > V/Line Orange > V/Line Red-Blue > VR Blue/Yellow)
02:05:38 <Flygon> sim-al2: V/Line just had... no money.
02:06:11 <supermop_> well if its a vinyl wrap, conceivably it will peel off to reveal the old livery
02:09:48 <sim-al2> isn't the new livery purple and yellow?
02:10:03 <sim-al2> or that red and yellow version for that matter
02:10:19 <supermop_> sim-al2: the purple is just on DMUs I believe
02:10:26 <Flygon> It's Purple and Yellow now on V/Line.
02:10:32 <Flygon> Nah, they did an N-class in it.
02:10:33 <sim-al2> (kinda weird to be changing the livery every few years)
02:10:42 <Flygon> It's now called "The Violet Crumble" Livery.
02:11:02 <supermop_> Flygon: have they put ptv triangles on the locomotives now?
02:12:10 <supermop_> although I can see a categorical distinction between the loco hauled and dmu services... why not red triangles?
02:12:40 <sim-al2> I do like the blue and yellow on the suburban electrics
02:13:11 <Flygon> I still reckon the Green/Yellow livery was the best on suburbans. D:
02:13:34 <supermop_> trams: green emus: blue dmus: purple stock: red buses:orange
02:14:19 <supermop_> mandate taxis get a yellow triangle livery and you have a regionally cohesive scheme for each 'type' of transit
02:15:11 <Flygon> inb4 all cars have to be Silver.
02:15:44 <supermop_> silver taxis are a bit silly
02:16:07 <Flygon> Yeah. I... don't understand them.
02:16:12 <Flygon> Why aren't all Taxis yellow?
02:16:41 <supermop_> taxis should be readily identifiable even to those who aren't good at recognizing cars or with poor vision
02:17:17 <supermop_> doesn't need to be yellow, but yellow is good because its highly visible and not very common among private cars
02:18:01 <sim-al2> London of course has distinct vehicles
02:18:22 <supermop_> uk accesibilty laws actually now mandate train doors be colored in a contrasting identifiable manner
02:19:02 <sim-al2> silly to have the doors blend in until they open
02:19:04 <supermop_> you'd think a door would be obvious, but many people might not notice it right away, even if they have good vision
02:19:33 <sim-al2> plug doors tend to be less noticeable
02:22:36 <sim-al2> regardless of laws I've noticed that many commuter and regional trains already have their doors painted in a similar way
02:23:43 <sim-al2> at least with sliding doors the pocket tends to create more contrast
02:24:24 <supermop_> side of a train car doesn't leave many easy options for branding colors, contrasting doors is an easy way to get your color scheme in and make it more functional
02:27:02 <Flygon> But I also hate electronically opened sunken doors.
02:27:16 <Flygon> And close like shit too.
02:27:33 <sim-al2> might need to steal some Japanese doors then
02:27:34 <Flygon> Comeng doors are nice - They close reasonably quickly, and they're shit quick to open.
02:27:51 <Flygon> Nah, it's some kinda regulation thing.
02:28:03 <Flygon> The Government is terrified someone could lose a limb if the electronic doors closed too quickly.
02:28:30 * Flygon points to that singular Shinkansen death that's actually caused by a fault in the Shinkansen
02:28:41 <sim-al2> well people do tend to try and rush in as the doors close
02:28:51 <Flygon> (Of course, this being Japan, they've probably now programmed their doors to not accidentally decapitate passengers...)
02:28:56 <sim-al2> so you do need to make sure it's not unsafe
02:29:08 <Flygon> True. But... paranoia is paranoia.
02:29:13 <Flygon> Even if it's perfectly solvable.
02:29:35 <Flygon> (A door can close quickly while not actually exerting much force, for example. The Comengs are already a good example of this)
02:29:41 <sim-al2> also on a really crowded train people and their stuff might be in the path of a door
02:30:37 <Flygon> Made me check what IRC server I was on for a second there, hahaha.
02:30:57 <Flygon> (For some reason, Australian furry fandom has a disproportionately large Gunzel population >_>)
02:31:42 <sim-al2> hmm the new V/line livery is also appearing on the carriages
02:31:56 <sim-al2> not sure if I like it
02:33:00 <supermop_> center cars of emus, dmus and trams do not have the triangles ends
02:33:24 <supermop_> I get that stock isn't fixed in formation, but
02:33:50 <sim-al2> they could just pull an Amtrak and not care
02:34:21 <supermop_> I mean, it could just be purple stripe at top and yellow at bottom
02:35:29 <sim-al2> I assume that whoever designed it really wanted the geometric patterns at the ends
02:35:45 <Flygon> I don't like the livery on the carriages...
02:35:53 <Flygon> It... the grey section just looks too flat.
02:35:57 <Flygon> Also it's a graffiti magnet.
02:36:12 <Flygon> Now, if it was a carriage like the Comengs? With that stainless steel look?...
02:36:24 <supermop_> isn't it stainless?
02:36:53 <Flygon> The grey is Vynil, iirc.
02:37:17 <supermop_> cut and peel off if it gets tagged
02:37:27 <Flygon> Not quite the 'silver' you expect from raw metal.
02:37:54 <Flygon> I'm not saying it can't look good... but the current shade of grey just doesn't look quite right.
02:38:10 <Flygon> Especially recalling that Victoria's cloudy as hell 9 months of the year.
02:40:32 <sim-al2> of course consider how it might look when it gets dirty
02:41:26 <sim-al2> I think it might be the same shade as the previous paint scheme
02:41:45 <sim-al2> but you can see how dirt and soot changes the look
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04:04:46 <ST2> sim-al2, do you see Jinassi here?
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05:45:35 <Flygon> I forgot - Is there a parameter for ensuring industries stay within x amount of tiles within a town?
05:49:13 <Flygon> It's kinda annoying playing a scenario and you have all these industries in the middle of nowhere. <_>
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09:27:07 <Flygon> You made me double check what network I was on about 7 hours ago. :P
09:27:33 <Flygon> Demographic overlap of Australian furries and Gunzels is disturbingly close. :V
09:29:39 <Greyfur> I was working on some newgrfs 2004-2007 and recently returned to that... so I wanted to have a look here
09:33:02 <andythenorth> V453000: how terribly awful is it if you can’t use TL5 for high-speed passengers?
09:33:06 <Supercheese> most newgrfs are now oldgrfs
09:33:09 <andythenorth> is that like the worst thing ever?
09:33:16 <andythenorth> all kittens massacred?
09:34:12 <Greyfur> Supercheese: I know, right? Also, many were created and never got updated with newer features...
09:34:25 <V453000> sounds dumb andy, why would you not be able to?
09:34:37 <andythenorth> trains that build in 2-tile blocks
09:34:48 <andythenorth> mostly for building convenience
09:34:53 <V453000> what did you work on Greyfur ?
09:36:03 <andythenorth> no wagons for this class, all engines
09:36:10 <andythenorth> and depot builds new engines on a new line
09:36:18 <andythenorth> then you have to drag them to make the train :x
09:36:35 <Greyfur> I worked on CS_tram_Set and George's LongVehs - I did only graphics back then
09:36:42 <V453000> no high speed people wagins?
09:37:17 <andythenorth> you don’t get a boss train at all lengths unless power scales with length
09:37:54 <Greyfur> Now I am working on my own bus set, both graphics and learning to code in nml
09:37:57 <andythenorth> and the only point of this train is to satisfy player need for boss train that destroys all other trains
09:38:20 <V453000> idintgettheproblem andy
09:38:50 <Supercheese> Build only Nyan Trains ---> Probblem Solvved
09:39:09 <andythenorth> boss train needs ~1000hp per 8/8 unit
09:39:25 <andythenorth> means all units have to be engines
09:39:37 <V453000> that depends on speed and weight
09:40:07 <V453000> you can have the engine have powered wagons
09:40:07 <andythenorth> 1000hp is example only but yeah
09:40:18 <andythenorth> powered wagons are no-no-no
09:40:30 <V453000> sunset in us set works this way
09:40:31 <andythenorth> is a TTDPatch thing, should not be used
09:41:03 <V453000> well then you can just get a callback which adds vehicle power based on length
09:41:09 <V453000> no powered qagon spec
09:41:21 <andythenorth> needs buy menu text no?
09:41:24 <V453000> sorry am on tablet, typing is ass
09:41:38 <andythenorth> I am on Apple device, it auto-corrects already-correct words
09:41:41 <V453000> well yeah, 'powered wagons'
09:42:14 <V453000> but I used powrered wagons in nuts, its fine
09:42:39 <andythenorth> TL5 is super-important thing?
09:42:45 <V453000> and why not use it, it's not like we are going to remove that compatibility?
09:42:47 <andythenorth> when I played coop it was some fetish
09:43:19 <V453000> I think 5 is kind of the default length
09:43:38 <V453000> but you can say that about many lengths
09:44:01 <V453000> more importantly I believe you should be able to configure any length you want
09:44:13 <V453000> in integers of tiles or halftiles
09:44:46 <andythenorth> is general principle yes
09:44:57 <andythenorth> these high-speed trains are kind of extra bollocks
09:45:01 <V453000> but why 2 tile blocks in the first place?
09:45:09 <andythenorth> just easier to build
09:45:21 <andythenorth> one click, not click-click-drag blah
09:45:42 <V453000> just make it 16/8 then?
09:45:50 <V453000> building whole tiles makes sense
09:46:15 <V453000> assuming engine isn't 8/8 ... I am expecting 16/8 dualhead eh
09:46:36 <andythenorth> is just engine-is-pax-coach
09:47:14 <andythenorth> 8/8 engine, lots of hp, 40 pax
09:47:20 <andythenorth> and as many as you want
09:47:31 <andythenorth> but click-drag, click-drag, click-drag is BS
09:48:03 <andythenorth> also who needs a 1-tile 200mph train?
09:48:18 <andythenorth> dunno, maybe I can just scrap high-speed :D
09:50:28 <V453000> I think you arenjust overcomplicating it for yourself
09:50:49 <Greyfur> Is there a way to create refit menu text out of two sources? Like language file directly + pulled from a variable or another switch?
09:50:59 <V453000> even if you just have a 300kmh pax engine with 20000 hp of power, ot is already fine
09:51:27 <andythenorth> at that point, it’s a one-engine newgrf again
09:51:42 <andythenorth> which apparently Nobody Wants :P
09:51:55 <V453000> if you think it will not good when it is too weak and people use double engine, just make graphics for engine-inside train, I do that in nuts too
09:52:09 <V453000> well if it can only carry passengers then it's fine
09:52:17 <andythenorth> it’s more that it fucks with the progression
09:52:36 <andythenorth> to get 1860-2020 there has to be a consistent progression of engines and wagons
09:52:46 <andythenorth> I tried sudden big stats bumps, and it’s just weird
09:52:57 <andythenorth> like you have a design for your network, and classes of train
09:53:05 <andythenorth> everything is messed up
09:53:23 <V453000> well you just make everything better but keep class logic
09:53:33 <andythenorth> that doesn’t get to 200mph :P
09:53:39 <andythenorth> needs a new type of train in late game
09:54:03 <andythenorth> like some kind of new technology :P
09:54:25 <andythenorth> I am defeated too currently
09:54:36 <andythenorth> I took the lesson from NUTS, schema must rule
09:54:41 <V453000> just make it modern, give high numbers, run
09:55:34 <V453000> in fact powered wagons get ultra powerful real fast and massively motivate megalong trains
09:56:35 <andythenorth> means 75mph, 90mph, 110mph, 170mph, 200mph progression
09:56:40 <V453000> + with powered wagons it means there is only one correct way to build the engine, with non powered wagons you need to consider if you want more engines or not... usually trading capacity for power
09:56:56 <V453000> I don't see anything wrong
09:57:14 <andythenorth> weird huge jump, then small jump
09:58:01 <V453000> well then why not 110 150 200? :D
09:58:20 <andythenorth> not faster enough? dunno
09:58:32 <V453000> the exact values can be changed at any point
09:58:47 <V453000> I was changing and rebalancing nuts for many versions, see the changelog
09:58:56 <andythenorth> dunno, I was -1 to schemas, I thought they were constricting
09:59:05 <V453000> I had some system and tried to make it work
09:59:08 <andythenorth> but every design problem in IH so far is solved by enforcing more clear schema
09:59:47 <V453000> 110 to 150 is big improvement, 150 to 200 as well
10:00:41 <andythenorth> means I also have to reset wagon progression :P
10:00:48 <andythenorth> which means I have to reset other engines :P
10:00:57 <andythenorth> high speed is just stupid
10:04:01 <V453000> it uses some wagons, pproblem iz?
10:07:35 <andythenorth> wagon speeds are matched to engines
10:07:53 <andythenorth> increasing pax wagon speed would mean increasing mail wagon speed
10:08:06 <andythenorth> increasing mail wagon speed means increasing food wagon speed
10:08:17 <andythenorth> increasing food wagon speed means increasing all other wagon speeds
10:08:27 <andythenorth> increasing all other wagon speeds means increasing all freight engine speeds :P
10:09:06 <andythenorth> then high-speed pax speed needs increased more
10:09:14 <andythenorth> iz non-winnable :P
10:10:01 <V453000> wagon speeds are generally bad inmmany levels, this is one of them
10:10:44 <andythenorth> without them, the only possible conclusion is single wagon type
10:10:54 <andythenorth> and point of horse is ‘lots of wagons'
10:10:55 <V453000> I go make leaves gtfo off lawn, back in the evening, good luck :P
10:11:05 * andythenorth has that task too
10:11:10 <V453000> lots of wagons are still nice
10:11:36 <V453000> not having giant refit menu and seein variety of wagons in purchse menu is great
10:11:48 * andythenorth not convinced that 1 player request for 200mph pax train justifies wrecking whole set
10:11:49 <Greyfur> well, in reality some freight trains go 80 where passengers travel at 160 kmh
10:11:54 <andythenorth> also would have to wreck Hog and Sam
10:12:18 <V453000> for example if you play nuts first time and use the universal wagon, you have no idea how it looks for various cargoes until you try to refit it
10:12:29 <andythenorth> only 2 viable approaches imho
10:12:48 <andythenorth> anything else bollocks
10:12:53 <V453000> it's not just 1 player andy, having some late game modern stuff is nice
10:13:05 <andythenorth> draw nice maglev track :P
10:13:59 <V453000> but needs universal engine or track to autoreplace
10:14:08 <andythenorth> always a new problem :)
10:14:19 <andythenorth> this is why I don’t have dedicated high speed type :(
10:14:29 <andythenorth> everything is awesome
10:14:47 <andythenorth> ok build high-speed in 16/8 units
10:16:11 <Greyfur> Is there a way to create refit menu text out of two sources? Like language file directly + pulled from a variable or another switch?
10:16:37 <andythenorth> you can substring
10:16:46 <andythenorth> to combine strings
10:18:08 <andythenorth> you can chain switches for handling variations
10:19:35 <Greyfur> I know I can chain them, just found out if I do a text switch, I cannot have every refit menu part go to the same switch as it then doesn't allow refit at all.
10:21:23 <Greyfur> and I would like to keep the type subversion in the name of each refit, so I can base it on year, so my idea was to name refits as Blue, Red, Yellow and behind the color put a text switch based on year of build
10:22:19 <andythenorth> that should work
10:22:31 <Greyfur> Do you have any example on the substring syntax?
10:22:36 <andythenorth> you end up somewhere returning one string per variant
10:23:32 <andythenorth> uses ‘STR_EXTRA_PRIMARY’
10:23:53 <andythenorth> not sure I actually understand that example :P
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10:25:40 <andythenorth> string(STR_NAME_aberdare, string(STR_NAME_SUFFIX_STEAM))
10:26:00 <andythenorth> in that case ‘STR_NAME_aberdare’ is not translated, and ‘STR_NAME_SUFFIX_STEAM’ is
10:27:16 <andythenorth> nml concatenates these strings at compile time afaik, if you want to insert stuff from variables during gameplay, it needs a different approach :)
10:29:50 <andythenorth> the english.lng file for the aberdare then has “STR_NAME_aberdare. :2-6-0 Aberdare {STRING}”
10:31:22 <Flygon> (I'm guessing my answer to the question of "Can industries be set to only spawn within x amount of tiles of a town" is a 'No'. Tried to check around myself, but everything turned out negative)
10:31:35 <andythenorth> FLHerne: yes, that’s relatively easy
10:31:48 <andythenorth> there is a built-in magic flag, but it has problems
10:31:57 <andythenorth> and it can be done with location check callbacks
10:34:04 <andythenorth> Flygon: you want code, or just a yes/no answer? o_O
10:37:56 <Flygon> Rather not bother the devs about it if nobody else has wanted it. :P
10:39:25 <andythenorth> depending on the industry, it needs to check for houses rather than town sign
10:39:34 <andythenorth> otherwise can’t build near very large cities
10:39:36 <Eddi|zuHause> Flygon: i think ECS used "within X tiles there must be at least Y population"
10:40:26 <Flygon> Yeah. Was thinking with default or FIRS, for example.
10:40:44 <Flygon> Just kinda annoying to, say.
10:40:48 <Flygon> Start the Iceland scenario.
10:40:53 <Eddi|zuHause> default bank uses "town must be >1200 population" and "must replace a house"
10:40:59 <Flygon> And there's factories in, uhm... patently unfair locations. :D
10:41:04 <Greyfur> Thank you andy, I will study a little on the strings. :)
10:41:07 <Flygon> Er, not unfair, but... terrible.
10:41:41 <Eddi|zuHause> or maybe it was 2000
10:42:23 <andythenorth> there are two flags
10:43:14 <andythenorth> but they are not appropriate for, e.g. factories
10:43:28 <andythenorth> Flygon: possibly a GS could also handle that
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10:44:14 <Flygon> I forgot how flexible scripts are.
10:45:44 <Flygon> But, yeah. Was thinking of something along the lines of "Gotta be within 96 tiles of ANY house to make industry". :P
10:46:19 <Eddi|zuHause> Flygon: that's what the nearby tile loop does
10:46:44 <Eddi|zuHause> Flygon: though performance may suffer if you make the radius that high
10:47:00 <Flygon> Well, was mostly using it as an example.
10:51:08 <Eddi|zuHause> Flygon: anyway, that makes the answer to your question: "yes"
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10:52:07 <stefino> Leanden? are you here? :D
10:52:25 <Flygon> Just need to write a script.
10:53:22 <Eddi|zuHause> Flygon: doesn't need a script
10:53:43 <Flygon> Wait. Where in the options was it again?
10:53:46 <Eddi|zuHause> Flygon: nearby tile loop on industry creation is available in newgrf
10:54:54 <Eddi|zuHause> though you could use a script, if the scenario is your focus
10:55:13 <Flygon> Okay. Doesn't seem to be a feature in OpenGFX+.
10:55:19 <Flygon> So I have to reply on the NewGRF supporting it?
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14:21:24 <Wolf01> I need to make a 3-axis joystick with lego... 2 of them
14:26:30 <andythenorth> I’ve broken the ‘one obvious choice’ rule in IH :|
14:28:51 <andythenorth> previous generations are ‘Scooby’ and ‘Plastic Postbox’
14:29:27 <andythenorth> ‘Pushing the Envelope’?
14:36:37 <frosch123> "tally" could also work
14:46:40 <supermop_> last night i was wondering,
14:46:50 <supermop_> could you recolor animated colors?
14:47:20 <frosch123> recolornig happens before animating
14:47:49 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, but you can't change the animation sequence, and you can't recolour based on which animation step is currently active
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14:48:28 <supermop_> no no way to recolor flashing red to make 'ditch lights'
14:48:37 <supermop_> or amber hazard flashers
14:49:07 <Eddi|zuHause> no, the cycles are fixed
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14:49:50 <andythenorth> there is a fire cycle that’s adequate for flashing amber
14:49:54 <andythenorth> I used it in HEQS
14:50:02 <andythenorth> could also animate on frame-by-frame
14:50:24 <andythenorth> but sprite count would get ridiculous :P
14:51:45 <andythenorth> Horse sprite count is ridiculous already in fact :(
14:51:50 <andythenorth> 26584 sprites for 186 trains
14:52:09 <andythenorth> compile time is horrible
14:52:53 <andythenorth> ‘Howler’ or ‘Happy Train’? (modern passenger railcar)
14:52:54 <planetmaker> that's 17 different looks per train, if you assume 8 side views per look
14:53:07 <andythenorth> it’s more likely 1 look for most trains
14:53:13 <andythenorth> and then some wagons with a *lot* of cargo support
14:53:41 <planetmaker> 17... ok, is less than the amount of cargoes.... 3 (or 4?) loading stages... yeah, quickly gets out of hand :)
15:03:54 <andythenorth> ‘Pony Express’ :P
15:03:58 <andythenorth> roster is ‘Pony'
15:04:27 <frosch123> "pony express" for pax, mail or livestock?
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15:25:40 <andythenorth> so is the new GS made yet? o_O
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15:31:48 <andythenorth> such GS ideas then?
15:41:00 <Alberth> ideas would work, implementing them is zhe problem
15:42:04 <Alberth> especially with such splendid weather outside
16:04:58 <supermop_> not much livery variation for 3/8 steeple cab
16:06:08 <supermop_> brown with cc stripe? contrasting hoods?
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16:32:09 <andythenorth> black window surrounds
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17:07:33 <frosch123> why is it articulated?
17:07:38 <frosch123> more axles for more weight?
17:10:36 <andythenorth> keeps axle load down
17:11:04 <andythenorth> I would have thought the german wagons with 3-axle bogies would be more effiicient
17:11:32 <andythenorth> distributing axles might help bridge limits though
17:15:56 <supermop_> andythenorth I put single headlamp between cab windows, could have alternate with two on the front
17:17:09 <supermop_> though plenty of room in the stack to randomly composite on lights for these guys
17:32:15 <andythenorth> CC roof vs. grey roof supermop_
17:32:20 <andythenorth> makes a fair difference
17:32:23 <andythenorth> CC looks 'modern'
17:32:33 <andythenorth> also you can guard wheels or not
17:32:36 <supermop_> this is a 1890 loco
17:33:04 <andythenorth> doors, or black voids
17:33:14 <andythenorth> hog does quite a lot with trams
17:33:21 <andythenorth> without 100% redrawing
17:34:52 <andythenorth> now you can advise me on wagons :P
17:35:02 <andythenorth> 8/8 90mph vs. 8/8 100mph
17:35:06 <andythenorth> need to look different
17:35:13 <andythenorth> but not total change
17:35:26 <supermop_> 1 door per side instead of 2?
17:36:05 <andythenorth> L81 and L83 are gen 5 and gen 6 resp.
17:39:16 <frosch123> slow wagons have separated windows which can be opened
17:39:32 <frosch123> fast wagons have more continous windows which cannot be opened
17:42:32 <andythenorth> for pax cars yes
17:42:41 <andythenorth> generally sleeker
17:42:48 <andythenorth> open wagons and flat wagons are hardest
17:42:52 <andythenorth> flat wagons, I gave up :P
17:44:17 <frosch123> the open wagons could have interior walls
17:45:21 * andythenorth trying some 10/8 articulated wagons
17:49:05 <frosch123> hmm, the cc somewhat hides it
17:49:19 <frosch123> but early wagons could be made of wood, while modern ones are metal
17:51:51 <andythenorth> that might be required
17:52:34 * andythenorth will find a way :P
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17:53:38 <Alberth> like the flat wagons with front/back shield
17:54:04 <Alberth> completely flat is boring :p
17:58:03 <andythenorth> there’s not much to comment on right now
17:58:26 <andythenorth> all intended engines 1860-2020 are now in (except some narrow gauge)
17:58:40 <andythenorth> most wagons are mostly in
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18:46:47 <supermop_> handrails darker or lighter than body painted in same color?
18:51:36 <supermop_> white, yellow, and 2cc are two steps lighter than 'normal'
18:51:43 <supermop_> red is 1 step darker
18:52:10 <supermop_> want them to stand out against cab end
18:52:18 <andythenorth> details are tricky
18:53:54 <supermop_> then no yellow on cab or nose needed
18:57:47 <supermop_> anyway rails get stacked
18:58:10 <supermop_> get a chance for red, white 2cc, or yellow, or none
20:15:39 <andythenorth> time to sell some HO trains
20:15:41 <andythenorth> also some Lego :P
20:16:14 <Wolf01> I want to go to the pub, but I don't want to go out :|
20:16:26 <frosch123> you convert them to pixels to save space?
20:16:42 <andythenorth> frosch123: possibly yes :P
20:20:32 <V453000> is the thing with 13/8 trains that Leanden claims possible?
20:20:41 <V453000> to override length through graphics() thing?
20:20:44 <V453000> yeah that's what I thought
20:21:10 <andythenorth> I should talk to CZ guys :P
20:21:28 <V453000> I'm talking to them almost every day over skype
20:21:41 <andythenorth> they would be better off making stuff for MS Train Simulator
20:22:08 <andythenorth> OTTD is a bad model railroad simulator
20:22:13 <V453000> I'm helping them get oriented, organized and code, but they are basically making the most ultra realistic grf ever made which I will hate the most ever
20:22:19 <V453000> yeah but they don't like the other games
20:22:36 <andythenorth> well they don’t like OpenTTD either, as it is :)
20:22:52 <V453000> and trust me that you only know the tip of the iceberg for megarealism in their dimension :D
20:22:53 * andythenorth is sitting in front of actual model trains
20:22:57 <andythenorth> going round in a circle
20:23:17 <andythenorth> best model trains go in a loop 1m x 2m
20:23:25 <andythenorth> not realistic :P
20:23:26 <V453000> they like openttd as it is, they are just doing all kinds of really fucked up realism complications for themselves
20:23:52 <V453000> for example they have a 18/8 wagon hacked by invisible parts, which by itself is eh ... but they even make 2 tile tunnels to hide the hack, and complain about bridges fucking up :D
20:53:32 <Wolf01> Wow, today they finished the 13 new tracks on the Mestre station, mainly for the yard
20:57:27 <Wolf01> No more parked trains in Venice :)
21:07:12 <andythenorth> IH has lots of trains introduce in 1960 :P
21:07:15 <andythenorth> they all appeared at once
21:27:26 <andythenorth> all these wagons are either great
21:27:32 <andythenorth> or this is the worst idea so far :P
21:30:21 <andythenorth> first impressions are ‘worst idea so far'
22:12:14 <andythenorth> is terrible V453000 :P
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22:25:39 <andythenorth> I should do engine speed limits, not wagon speed limits :x
22:25:56 <supermop_> if a variable gives a whole date, how do I use only the year?
22:26:40 <andythenorth> there is some way to nibble it off
22:28:55 <andythenorth> can’t find it :|
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23:39:15 <supermop_> is 'tramway train' a dumb name?
23:42:42 <supermop_> 'industrial train' just sounds like any train that goes to an industry
23:43:36 <Wolf01> Call it tram? It's a tram
23:47:17 <supermop_> the little locomotive seems odd to call a tram
23:50:32 <Wolf01> Industrial tramways or light rail share a lot with narrow gauge
continue to next day ⏵
