IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2017-10-06
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00:18:51 <Wolf01> Everything but change idea tomorrow
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16:24:11 <peter1138> Never seen that link before!
16:24:36 <crem1> Will be in early access for two years?... Huh, I'd hope it won't be the same story as with prison architect.
16:34:11 <crem1> Hopefully it will only get better like factorio.
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17:16:59 <Wolf01> Mmmh, I need to reverse the logic of my app
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17:18:26 <Wolf01> I wanted to show in the home the N most recent feeds for each site, where N is a value the user can chose, but to do so I need to load every subscription, order by date, take N
17:19:06 <Alberth> likely, or you keep track of the last N entries
17:19:36 <Wolf01> I have the cache to load the same stuff from file, but not the new stuff :P
17:19:42 <Alberth> but you don't need to load the file anyway to display the newest?
17:19:49 <Wolf01> And that means the kickstart of the app is really slow
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17:21:26 <Alberth> some form of incremental loading/display might be useful?
17:21:27 <Wolf01> After it loads from the web the new stuff then it's really fast, because now there is the cache, and it updates every 30 minutes (I need to make it a setting)
17:23:08 <Wolf01> Yes, I was thinking to not focus on strict order by date, since it loads the feeds for every subscription as a task, I can append the items while it loads, too bad I can't start directly with the cache because I don't know how many feeds I might get
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17:24:40 <Alberth> could work, as long as you keep the displayed items ordered on date, I think
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17:28:10 <Wolf01> Yes, but only for each subscription, or I'll need to reorder the same collection at every addition, and it's not a simple collection.orderby() thing because it returns a copy of the collection, I could try with insertat(), but it might be a computational waste, since I will need to find the exact point (binary tree?)
17:33:50 <Alberth> searching is as fast as binary tree
17:34:37 <Alberth> slightly faster if you count cpu cache locality (if that applies in your case)
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17:44:24 <Alberth> hmm, no in-order traversal for free
17:46:50 <Alberth> perhaps the relation was the other way around, ie a sorted array is a heap, but not every heap is a sorted array
17:50:21 <Alberth> ha, I can read some class and function names, and that's it :)
17:50:33 <Alberth> but yeah, seems like the right solution
17:50:57 <Alberth> not like you have a zillion entries anyway
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17:51:39 <Alberth> so anything will basically work :)
17:51:55 <Wolf01> No, maybe 20-30, so I don't think it blocks the execution for too much
17:52:13 <Wolf01> And if I do it async it doesn't even block it
17:54:08 <Wolf01> Now I have one of the most common problems of the developers: think about the right name of the variables and what to write on the label text...
17:55:37 <Alberth> would be really nice if I has that sort of problems as the most difficult ones :)
17:56:12 <Alberth> or even common ones :)
17:56:50 <Wolf01> I have to make the control group for the timer value... "Set the auto refresh of feeds delay to"/n [combobox] "minutes" could be easy to understand?
17:57:31 <Wolf01> Or minutes into the combobox item, it seem microsoft does this
17:58:02 <Alberth> minutes already implies waiting :)
17:58:44 <Alberth> Update feeds every XX minutes
18:02:48 <Wolf01> Meh, I have to make the combobox a Frankenstein's monster to allow to translate the " minutes" string for items
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18:12:32 <Wolf01> (I don't know why he uses TextBlock instead of ComboBoxItem)
18:15:38 <Alberth> examples are hardly ever complete
18:16:04 <Alberth> reference manuals are more appropriate for that kind of questions
18:16:04 <Wolf01> Nah, you can fit even checkboxes in comboboxes
18:16:40 <Wolf01> Usually people do a lot of strange things because want to add icons and stuff
18:19:51 <Alberth> yeah, although it doesn't sound like a good idea, imho
18:20:21 <Alberth> but many people are scared shit of plain text
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18:26:30 <frosch123> looks like V has no issues with earbuds
18:31:31 <Alberth> that example makes sense
18:32:38 <Alberth> hmm, somewhat lacking money
18:33:03 <Wolf01> Building foundations on water is expensive
18:40:44 <Alberth> and they built the power plant in the middle of farm fields as well
18:43:30 <Eddi|zuHause> Alberth: maybe it was the place with the fewest NIMBYs
18:46:27 <Wolf01> I tried 3 times to create an array of integers to pass as a function argument and all 3 times gave error... it was right the first time... :|
18:49:17 <Alberth> fold a class around it?
18:49:57 <Wolf01> Just new int[] { 1, 2, ...}
18:50:17 <Wolf01> But it was underlined in red, maybe I'm too fast for the intellisense
18:50:48 <Alberth> Eddi: it was narrow enough for that :)
18:53:19 <Alberth> can you have unreachable code in C# ?
18:53:51 <Wolf01> Yes just put something after a return
18:55:08 <Alberth> nice, it's a fatal error in Java
18:55:21 <frosch123> does it have "goto"?
18:55:21 <Alberth> which is just plain stupid
18:55:42 <Wolf01> I need a way to sync the resources between languages without the translator tool (which now requires a free azure services subscriptions, which requires a credit card) :(
18:56:10 <Alberth> hmm, max speed of coal train 47km/h :p
18:56:13 <Eddi|zuHause> Alberth: so if i add a return for debugging purposes, i have to comment out all the code?
18:56:37 <Alberth> nah, "if (true) return;" works
18:56:54 <Alberth> ie "if" is an exception
18:57:15 <Wolf01> In java yes, here the intellisense just tells you are stupid
18:57:39 <Alberth> reasoning is that you may have debug code if (DEBUG) { ... }
18:57:49 <Alberth> with DEBUG defined at the top of the file
18:58:21 <Alberth> so in all, it's a silly useless attempt to control program code
18:58:32 <Wolf01> With the constant it just greyes out the part of the code which won't be executed
18:58:46 <glx> it's stupid to have unreachable code, but it's more stupid to consider it a fatal error
18:59:19 <Eddi|zuHause> warning is a sane level
18:59:29 <glx> a warning or a notice during the compilation is enough yes
19:00:33 <Alberth> it gives an extra challenge if you generate Java code :p
19:01:20 <Alberth> so indeed, I generate "if (true) return" statements, and "while(...) { if (false) break; ... }"
19:01:27 <Eddi|zuHause> Alberth: but the solution there is the same as above debug thing
19:01:50 <Alberth> modulo the 64K limit crap
19:02:21 <Alberth> everything 64K limits
19:02:28 <Alberth> 64K byte code in a method
19:02:54 <Eddi|zuHause> what happened to 32bit?
19:02:58 <Alberth> invented in the 90s and still applied
19:03:48 <Eddi|zuHause> the time when .com files were max 64k
19:03:48 <Alberth> compiler isn't even smart enough to handle it
19:04:29 <Alberth> probably they are afraid some system from the 90s is still running java
19:04:31 <frosch123> haha, if you didn't mention code generation earlier, i would have wondered how you got to those limits :)
19:04:59 <Eddi|zuHause> ... until some dos versions where even command.com wasn't actually a .com file anymore, but an .exe file which just was renamed .com
19:05:17 <Alberth> sure manual code is quite alright, even unreachable code never happens there, other than by accident
19:05:29 <Alberth> but it's clearly designed for that one usecase
19:05:54 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: like that one nml or grfcodec bug at 64k sprites that i found?
19:05:56 <glx> JVM runs on a lot of silly systems
19:06:48 <Alberth> I have no problem with that, but my code isn't intended for such systems, as it doesn't have the processing power anyway
19:07:27 <Eddi|zuHause> glx: quite worrying if you think about how many java programs your average car runs nowadays...
19:09:40 <Wolf01> I would be more worried to have a PHP powered car
19:13:43 <glx> now you have to plug the car to enable the AUX port on the radio
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19:34:37 <V453000> iz photoshop, iz solution
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21:12:24 <loeky> (-: thanks but needed openttdcoop
21:13:23 <Wolf01> Mmmh, andythenothere... :(
21:14:17 <V453000> :D :D gray landscape makes ISR stations basically invisible
21:14:29 <V453000> it's almost exactly the same
21:15:46 <V453000> too much work to change
21:16:17 <Wolf01> I've got a bonus fidget spinner from samsung today, because I attended at an explanation of the new galaxy note 8 features
21:19:11 <Wolf01> I was like "what this thing could be? It's heavy, a samsung magnet?"... opened the box: fidget spinner
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21:20:21 <Wolf01> Figured out what to do with the intermodal containers?
21:20:54 <andythenorth> legacy from Squid is that intermodal is express-only
21:24:09 <andythenorth> squid is dead anyway
21:24:15 <andythenorth> and Hog doesn’t have intermodal yet
21:24:24 <andythenorth> good time to reset
21:25:14 <Wolf01> Nope, they were 3 hoppers in the same flat wagon
21:27:15 <Wolf01> But they were open on top
21:30:18 <Wolf01> Yes, something like a short version of the rocktainer
21:31:27 <andythenorth> V453000: is NUTS 2 surely :P
21:31:32 <andythenorth> all realism, all the time
21:31:36 <Wolf01> Or the woodtainer, I don't really remember if they had slanted edges
21:33:23 <andythenorth> all except bulk?
21:37:55 <Wolf01> In shipping, break bulk cargo or general cargo are goods that must be loaded individually, and not in intermodal containers nor in bulk as with oil or grain. <- I think it speaks for itself
21:43:44 <Wolf01> For example you could keep steel and log wagons, but introduce also intermodal ones for steel products, and sawdust for logs (still listed as logs if you don't have a second product from the sawmill), just to make some variation on trains
21:46:02 <V453000> andythenorth: how do I open a photo on a macbook and be able to use some kind of arrows for next/previous?
21:46:16 <V453000> it keeps opening it in some previewer and it seems to be just that one
21:46:28 <V453000> or iz some application which works easy and with this?
21:47:13 <andythenorth> try hitting space
21:47:31 <andythenorth> gets you Quick Look, which would be awesome, but is always wrong size
21:57:05 <V453000> andythenorth: space seems to do the job
22:05:47 <andythenorth> what about refrigerated containers? :P
22:06:58 <Wolf01> And a container for containers?
22:07:02 <frosch123> you should have fish livestock containers
22:07:21 <frosch123> possibly with glass walls
22:07:38 <andythenorth> containers could be a whole grf :P
22:07:56 <frosch123> hmm, i wonder whether i ever transported fish with nuts
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22:29:06 <supermop> industry: container terminal
22:29:33 <supermop> cargo+empty container = full container
22:51:40 <Wolf01> Make a grf for containers and call it Docker
22:52:06 <Wolf01> So we can say we support Docker in OTTD running in a Docker container
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