IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2017-10-01
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03:34:08 <nicfer> I'm looking at a newgrf nml file, and I see over 55k lines of code
03:34:43 <nicfer> Are those really written manually, or is there some helper tool ?
03:36:51 <ST2> you have the help of 10 litle magicians... called fingers xD
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08:44:05 * andythenorth puzzled about fruit + veg vehicles
08:44:07 <andythenorth> what colour to use
08:44:23 <andythenorth> seems I ran into this puzzle with ships too
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08:58:22 <Alberth> but sounds good to me, nice bright colourful wagons
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09:12:07 <andythenorth> using colour is tricky, because of CC
09:12:11 <andythenorth> and using shape is hard too
09:12:32 <andythenorth> I’ve tried drawing vents of different kinds, but it looks like a prison wagon
09:15:12 <Alberth> colour worked for fridges
09:15:24 <Alberth> thin red line for the CC colour
09:16:03 <Alberth> maybe add a non-cc colour near or around it, eg a black line above it or so?
09:16:22 <Alberth> also, I ran out of coffee, perhaps I should make more
09:16:57 <Alberth> they even painted the roof :p
09:17:30 <Alberth> it's almost splitting the wagon in 3 pieces
09:17:35 <andythenorth> coffee is an easy question
09:18:07 <Alberth> can't you make the line more diagonal?
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09:22:58 <Alberth> maybe extend to the edge of the wagons
09:23:29 <Alberth> below or above the red line is another option
09:23:42 <Alberth> indeed, coffee answer is "yes" :p
09:34:48 <andythenorth> various fruit cars and livestock cars
09:39:38 <Alberth> roof isn't affected, which looks better imho
09:40:36 <Alberth> can't you have two or more wagons, and use a non-conflicting colour version depending on CC colour?
09:41:03 <Alberth> eg yellow bananas wagon, except for the yellow comapny who uses a red wagon
09:41:29 <Alberth> assuming recolouring is mostly automagic
09:43:26 <andythenorth> - drop fruit vehicles (wagons, trams, trucks, ships)
09:43:38 <andythenorth> - find a new shape that works for wagons, trams, trucks, ships
09:44:09 <Alberth> solving the problem universal, eh?
09:45:12 <Alberth> fwiw, I like the most bottom one at the template, for not being so vertical
09:46:52 <Alberth> but perhaps just a style matter for one or so generation
09:47:18 <Alberth> more variation implies colour, I think
09:47:33 <Alberth> which implies you can't have everything CC
09:48:31 <Alberth> if you solve that, you can add more variation by shape of the colours
09:48:48 <Alberth> perhaps for different wagoin types or transport modes
09:49:05 <andythenorth> currently favouring the one with 2CC and brown doors
09:50:34 <Alberth> nice one, mostly due to non-conflicting green and brown :)
09:51:05 <Alberth> any particular reason why a wagon must be completely CC?
09:51:18 <Alberth> or mostly CC, probably
09:52:25 <Alberth> ships and trucks are perhaps another matter
09:52:33 <Alberth> no engine to colour CC :)
09:52:52 <Alberth> hmm, so trains are the special case?
09:53:58 <andythenorth> more and more I just return to the base set :)
09:54:17 <Alberth> in that case, you're done already :p
09:54:26 <andythenorth> without intending it, Horse has recreated more and more of the base set decisions, but scaled to FIRS etc
09:54:39 <andythenorth> the rubber truck in base set is quite ‘farm-like’
09:54:43 <andythenorth> or the grain truck
09:54:58 <andythenorth> so either brown, or silver-grey for fruit vehicles I think
09:55:00 <Alberth> English modeled, in 1990 :)
09:56:18 <andythenorth> I use dark red for rubber though, it looks better imho
09:56:21 <Alberth> tbh CC-ing the truck/ship/aircraft is a bit weird
09:56:49 <Alberth> not every company in RL paints its vehicles in one colour
09:58:53 <Alberth> as a wild idea, maybe extend default set instead?
09:59:37 <andythenorth> I’ll end up like V453000 ;)
10:00:20 <Alberth> I don't see you making BRIX :)
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12:32:52 <__ln__> do you think people in catalonia are expecting the spanish inquisition?
12:33:23 <Alberth> looks not unlikely, if it's not there already
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13:05:06 <Wolf01> <__ln__> do you think people in catalonia are expecting the spanish inquisition? <- nobody expect the spanish inquisition
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13:52:23 <frosch123> the pink train would fit into horse
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15:20:04 * andythenorth designing colour combinations
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19:45:45 <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r27923 trunk/src/lang/polish.txt (2017-10-01 19:45:39 +0200 )
19:45:47 <DorpsGek> polish: 15 changes by McZapkie
20:01:39 <V453000> most of my work is very often based on After Effects and making a robust system there
20:01:59 <V453000> every single of my graphics replacement sets so far has ended because After Effects scene grew too large and messy
20:02:03 <V453000> BRIX won't be any different :D
20:02:30 <V453000> the amount of hacks I need to do in order to be able to output what I need right now is so high that for next version I will have to rework the whole system :D
20:02:47 <V453000> to be fair, this current system is adopted from first versions of RAWR sooo
20:04:08 <V453000> but in general I am trying to make a system which is trying to do way too much for relatively little reason, just becomes messy inevitably
20:07:02 * V453000 has learned his lesson
20:08:27 <Alberth> yep, that's how software works, if you throw a problem at it which it doesn't understand, trying to contain the disaster generally fails, as it's leaky, it doesn't catch all cases correctly
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20:09:03 <Alberth> so indeed, the proper solution is to reconsider how to deal with all cases from the ground up
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20:34:25 <V453000> Alberth: yeah, well making this kind of workflows in most cases has to expect that things will expand and will need massive extensions and flexibility, but this size of stuff is just nuts
20:34:46 <V453000> also, the problem was that I was doing things from the beginning and then I realized I want to do hacks and special effects to terrain
20:35:09 <V453000> and once I started changing the terrain in one place, it has to happen in all others, and somewhere like in tunnels which are already complex as all hell, this means death :D
20:35:20 <V453000> I'm just going to photoshop it which will probably even look the best, but yeah
20:35:31 <V453000> there are other issues in line :D
20:40:13 <Alberth> trouble is you can't be flexible in any direction
20:40:39 <Alberth> ie some directions must be stable, or there is nothing to build on
20:41:32 <Alberth> the difficult part is usually deciding when you want to go too far, and need to reconsider how to do things
20:42:02 <V453000> well sure, there is always a limit but generally you can have more flexible setups
20:46:36 <Alberth> definitely, there is no upper limit on the complexity you can make in software :)
20:47:30 <V453000> I love them andythenorth
20:47:41 <V453000> the bottom wagons are amazing
20:47:45 <V453000> no fancy shit but they look awesome
20:47:57 <V453000> just a normal box wagon with vertical lines, but it looks seriously good
20:48:16 <Wolf01> A bit too perfect, time to start making 3562 versions with graffitti and rust
20:52:56 <andythenorth> automate that :P
20:53:12 <andythenorth> randomly shift colour of pixels
20:53:56 <andythenorth> Erorr: no cargo visible
20:53:57 <Wolf01> Nono, it should have "readable" writings and have nice figures
20:54:29 <andythenorth> got to fix livestock cars next
21:01:49 <andythenorth> such efficiency on sprites
21:04:47 <andythenorth> ‘Fruit & Veg Car’ or ‘Fruit & Vegetables Car'
21:05:06 <Alberth> no abbreviations, imho
21:05:09 * andythenorth pictures a 7 year old saying ‘veggg’ with a hard g
21:05:18 <andythenorth> V453000: white one is fridge
21:06:22 <andythenorth> I will put that in as easter egg
21:06:42 <andythenorth> all wagons are eggs
21:06:44 <andythenorth> hauled by slug engine
21:06:49 <V453000> nuts & brix release date, ggggg
21:07:09 <V453000> freeze whole game for 3 seconds
21:07:13 <V453000> unfreeze when it's 2nd april
21:07:21 <andythenorth> set speed to 0 on April 1
21:07:32 <andythenorth> cb 36 don’t work that way :P
21:08:15 <andythenorth> Fruit & Vegetables Car is long eh
21:08:21 * andythenorth wonders if german wins or loses that one
21:08:37 <andythenorth> usually German translation comes out super long, but occasionally it has a ready-made word
21:08:42 <V453000> you could just call it fruit car just like vanilla does
21:08:57 <andythenorth> it confused me tbh
21:09:06 <andythenorth> I have had them in-game for a while
21:09:09 <V453000> yeah because you are defining a confusing frvg cargo :D
21:09:14 <V453000> can't just have FRUT because nonono
21:09:51 <andythenorth> changed it some time
21:10:12 <andythenorth> also refits coffee, cassava, etc
21:10:22 <V453000> yeah I remember there was some mess around it
21:10:39 <andythenorth> is slug a cargo?
21:11:00 <andythenorth> ship in train with BOOM
21:11:16 <V453000> boom is explosives in FIRS3?
21:11:31 <V453000> JAVA is coffee, now boom is explosives
21:11:35 <andythenorth> sakes is one letter too long
21:11:38 <andythenorth> not a cargo label
21:11:40 <V453000> more labels which don't sound like the actual name pls :D
21:11:53 <V453000> rename all labels to FUCK
21:11:58 <V453000> is universal enough word
21:12:04 <andythenorth> plenty of 4 letter words available
21:12:17 <andythenorth> I can think of 5 easy
21:12:50 <andythenorth> not cargos though
21:12:56 <andythenorth> also my kids play game :P
21:13:01 <V453000> anything can be a cargo
21:13:04 <andythenorth> BUTT is probably allowed
21:13:11 <andythenorth> they’re not supposed to say it, but they do
21:13:16 <V453000> well my daughter can already say shit and use it in correct times, sooo
21:13:36 <V453000> whenever something isn't going the way she wants it, there it goes
21:13:49 <andythenorth> or perfect English?
21:14:15 <V453000> it's not literally translated as shit, you would translate it as "to ass" literally but yeah, we use it when something is going wrong
21:14:24 <andythenorth> we have invented a whole language for swearing-without-swearing
21:14:29 <andythenorth> which I now use at work too :P
21:14:53 <V453000> I think czech is very diverse in terms of defining a sub-optimal situation
21:15:13 * andythenorth back to sprites also
21:15:17 <andythenorth> how to draw tank cars?
21:15:24 <andythenorth> I hate drawing tanker vehicles
21:15:42 <V453000> V shaped cylinder incoming?
21:15:47 <V453000> for some extra difficulty
21:16:09 <andythenorth> I am using Pikka’s :P
21:16:36 <andythenorth> original sprite is ok, but cheats shading
21:16:42 <andythenorth> probably best strategy
21:16:50 <andythenorth> lying about lighting direction makes better sprites imho
21:17:08 <V453000> you mean mirrors the rotations?
21:17:35 <andythenorth> nah, stuff light higlight at both ends of – view
21:18:01 <andythenorth> look at original tank car
21:18:25 <andythenorth> also Turner Turbo, MSJ 250
21:18:48 <andythenorth> all the truck cabs are lit wrong, but it looks better
21:19:32 <V453000> basically any double headed train :P
21:20:01 <V453000> when I see the original vehicles, my energy to try and make brix vehicles is quickly reducing :D
21:20:07 <V453000> they're just too good
21:20:26 <andythenorth> ogfx…not so much
21:21:12 <V453000> btw in regards to "mirroring 4 sprites and ignoring shading"
21:21:37 <V453000> 4/4, cube is cube, you just shade it once, clone it, always looks that way :D
21:22:13 <V453000> also iz chips heaps :)
21:23:20 <andythenorth> such cube winning
21:23:32 <V453000> also the transparency was really fun to draw in pixel pushing
21:23:36 <andythenorth> starfield background
21:23:47 <andythenorth> towns are space stations
21:23:54 <V453000> andythenorth: there is a reason why brix water is black :P
21:24:00 <V453000> was meant to make ships as spaceships
21:24:03 <andythenorth> use water cycle for animated starts
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21:30:26 <Wolf01> <andythenorth> space openttd? <- you won't believe me if I say I was thinking about it this morning
21:31:32 <frosch123> we don't believe you, you were thinking about lego instead
21:32:20 <Wolf01> Also that, but I think it was something I've seen there which made me think to apply space to OTTD
21:33:33 <andythenorth> space lego train?
21:35:45 <andythenorth> which you seem to use for ~everything in Europe
21:36:36 <Alberth> didn't you have mining supplies too?
21:36:59 <andythenorth> mining supplies considered and rejected iirc
21:37:44 <Alberth> does that fit on a train?
21:37:58 <Alberth> yeti itself already needs a wagon
21:39:17 <andythenorth> hmm stake wagons
21:39:43 <andythenorth> is the name apparently
21:40:14 <V453000> brix vehicles will never exist
21:40:49 <Alberth> stake wagons are typically for wood, afaik
21:41:04 <Alberth> I'd expect them in norway ans sweden
21:42:07 <andythenorth> I have a wood car
21:42:20 <andythenorth> in European countries they seem to be used for lots of things
21:42:41 <Alberth> lots of industry in germany
21:43:07 <Alberth> hmm, container transport too, I guess
21:43:28 <Alberth> for all countries not at sea
21:43:40 <Alberth> ie german industry :)
21:43:50 <andythenorth> not sure it adds to gameplay
21:43:57 <andythenorth> already got open wagon, flat wagon, wood wagon
21:44:12 <V453000> flatbeds are the shit
21:44:26 <V453000> ... need to draw many sprites for individual cargoes... :P
21:44:34 <V453000> unless you do hacks with "covered cargo" and similar shit
21:44:55 <andythenorth> and if tarpaulin, then it recolours
21:45:08 <Alberth> containers would be nice if you get lots of different ones, imho
21:45:21 <V453000> but in general flatbeds have the biggest visual effect of loaded cargo, because empty they are super empty, hoppers already have the general outline structure with a hole -> structure with heap
21:45:36 <V453000> yeah randomized flatbed cargoes = ultimate win
21:46:02 <andythenorth> but maybe even more wagon types with visible cargo? o_O
21:46:46 <Alberth> pick random wagon type that matches with the cargo :p
21:47:14 <andythenorth> too easily done :P
21:47:20 <andythenorth> that would be a free-for-all
21:47:23 <andythenorth> especially in Steeltown
21:48:07 <andythenorth> dedicated wagon type for every cargo IRL
21:48:15 <andythenorth> no refits needed ever
21:48:40 <Alberth> RL doesn't care about good looks :)
21:58:38 <V453000> =D 33 GB of RAM used when rendering track spritesheet
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