IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2017-09-24
⏴ go to previous day
00:00:00 <TrueBrain> well, it linked after install the TargetingPack for 4.0 ..
00:00:47 <TrueBrain> but now settings_gen.exe failed to execute ... lol
00:03:13 <TrueBrain> this Docker for Windows is such an unstable mess and collection of brokenness ...
00:05:11 *** tokai|noir has joined #openttd
00:05:11 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai|noir
00:07:33 <TrueBrain> copy/pasting inside a Docker only gives a partial paste result :D
00:26:26 <TrueBrain> lol; settings_gen.exe is not allowed to rename a file .. but copy+delete does work :D
00:35:12 <TrueBrain> lol; I had to copy the folder in order for it to work .. it only fails on a mounted folder ... owh well, OpenTTD compiles under Windows with MSVC2017 in Docker :D
00:38:39 <TrueBrain> it fails on something LordAro did :D
00:38:58 <TrueBrain> adding a VS2017 flag, but not adding the project to switch a flag to make that not error :D
00:41:54 *** mindlesstux has joined #openttd
00:42:58 <TrueBrain> (fallthrough, the project needs to be told it needs c++11 :D)
00:43:07 <TrueBrain> but there are no VS2017 project files
00:43:16 <TrueBrain> so I guess it was a local thingy :D
00:43:53 <TrueBrain> euh, even c++latest
00:44:59 <TrueBrain> weird, as fallthrough is part of c++11 .. but it needs c++latest on VS2017 :D
00:46:06 <TrueBrain> how do I tell this via msbuild .. hmmmmmmm
00:51:49 <TrueBrain> well, why would they document how to do that ....
00:54:49 <TrueBrain> ah, LanguageStandard
00:57:53 <TrueBrain> seems I really need project files to get this working :D
01:02:21 <TrueBrain> had to downgrade till before that patch to get something less error-ish :D
01:02:39 <TrueBrain> welcome to the undocumented world of Microsoft!! *facepalm*
01:07:36 <TrueBrain> yippie, it now really is only missing openttd-useful :D :D
01:08:10 <TrueBrain> *does a happy dance*
01:17:09 *** techmagus has joined #openttd
01:22:55 *** orudge` has joined #openttd
01:22:55 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o orudge`
01:45:14 *** orudge` has joined #openttd
01:45:14 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o orudge`
03:26:21 *** Flygon_ has joined #openttd
04:23:48 *** orudge` has joined #openttd
04:23:49 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o orudge`
04:29:33 *** Flygon__ has joined #openttd
06:41:13 *** chomwitt has joined #openttd
07:42:10 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd
07:48:23 *** Alberth has joined #openttd
07:48:23 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Alberth
08:28:35 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd
08:34:42 *** Progman has joined #openttd
08:54:10 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai
08:56:13 <andythenorth> ‘short buy menu’, ‘multiple generations’, ‘vehicles never expire: on’
09:00:56 *** mindlesstux has joined #openttd
09:01:24 <Eddi|zuHause> you should design for vehicles expiring...
09:01:32 <Eddi|zuHause> even if you don't use it
09:02:18 <Eddi|zuHause> also, you can manually hide vehicles
09:08:18 *** gelignite has joined #openttd
09:25:40 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: +1
09:25:53 <andythenorth> can’t remember why I always have vehicle expiry off
09:26:06 <andythenorth> might be an artefact of newgrf development
09:26:15 <andythenorth> or maybe there was a plane in a pikka set I needed
09:26:57 <andythenorth> is a ‘toggleexpiry’ a possible console command?
09:27:02 <andythenorth> it would also run reset engines
09:31:30 <Eddi|zuHause> you can "set <whatever>", and then resetengines
09:31:44 <Eddi|zuHause> also, people might want to set expiry without resetting
09:31:57 <Eddi|zuHause> especially when you set it to on
09:33:01 <Eddi|zuHause> e.g. you play from 1950 to 2000, but then you want to keep all the 2000 vehicles around forever, and switch no-expire on
09:33:14 <Eddi|zuHause> if you then ran "resetengines", you would get the 1950 engines back
09:33:20 <andythenorth> possibly I should also stop setting ‘VEHICLE_NEVER_EXPIRES’ for all vehicles :P
09:33:24 <Eddi|zuHause> which you probably don't want
09:48:22 <andythenorth> if there are ‘short’ and ‘long’ wagons
09:48:41 <andythenorth> is the length relative to date? Or fixed in perpetuity?
09:48:50 <andythenorth> i.e. short is 4/8 -> 6/8
09:48:57 <andythenorth> and long is 6/8 -> 8/8
09:49:18 <andythenorth> or are there short, medium, long?
09:50:42 <Eddi|zuHause> maybe freight is always 4/8 and 6/8 and passengers always 6/8 and 8/8
10:06:21 <andythenorth> pax is always 6/8 and 8/8
10:06:25 <andythenorth> seems to work well
10:06:34 <andythenorth> freight at 4/8 and 8/8 works well
10:06:43 <andythenorth> but at some point, long freight wagons are wanted by realism
10:10:51 <Eddi|zuHause> well, there's nothing really stopping you from switching up the lengths in a new generation
10:11:55 <andythenorth> it’s mostly a question about buy menu names
10:12:11 <andythenorth> “Box Car” and “Box Car”, but visually one is obviously longer than the other
10:12:21 <andythenorth> or “Long Box Car” and “Short Box Car”
10:12:55 <Eddi|zuHause> leave out the long/short
10:17:32 <Alberth> new improved shiny box car :p
10:18:20 <Alberth> if people are too stupid to read the stats, the name won't matter either :)
10:24:42 *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd
10:37:06 *** FLHerne has joined #openttd
10:37:20 *** orudge` has joined #openttd
10:37:20 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o orudge`
12:00:33 *** Stimrol has joined #openttd
12:10:36 *** orudge` has joined #openttd
12:10:36 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o orudge`
12:50:24 <TrueBrain> why are we so inconsistent in Windows stuff .... the project files are x64 or Win32, but openttd-useful is win64 and win32
12:50:37 <TrueBrain> how can I script stuff efficiently if people keep doing this? :D
12:54:43 <__ln__> remove people from the equation
12:56:51 <TrueBrain> Trump is already taking care of that
12:56:56 <TrueBrain> (easy troll is easy :P)
12:59:25 <Rubidium> TrueBrain: that's the Windows way... after all, system32 is 64 bits and syswow64 is 32 bits
12:59:49 <TrueBrain> we did not made it better by also not following one way :)
13:00:15 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd
13:00:19 <TrueBrain> YOU SHOULD BE SORRY :P
13:00:55 <TrueBrain> hmm .. for some reason cl.exe is out hiding again now
13:01:15 <andythenorth> TrueBrain: SORRY
13:03:03 <TrueBrain> I love how PowerShell sometimes mimics Linux .. but not just
13:03:18 <TrueBrain> but the f can be filter or force, so you have to specify which you mean
13:03:34 *** orudge` has joined #openttd
13:03:34 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o orudge`
13:05:25 <Eddi|zuHause> i love how microsoft recently turned into the "extend" phase of .net... like they made this nice new cross-compatible standard, that is missing a lot from the old standard. and then they went "oh we have this shiny new compatibility library that contains all the missing stuff, but it'll be windows-only"
13:06:14 <TrueBrain> this andy, always derailing the conversation :P
13:07:58 <TrueBrain> so many bugs in the Docker for Windows mount system ..
13:08:10 <TrueBrain> svnversion works in subdirectories of the mount .. but not in the root of the mount ..
13:08:53 <TrueBrain> so how am I going to tell MSBuild about this shiny include directory I have in store for him ...
13:13:43 <TrueBrain> every answer comes down to: by modifying the project files
13:13:46 <TrueBrain> I mean, come onnnnnn
13:20:22 <TrueBrain> so you can set INCLUDE in the env
13:20:29 <TrueBrain> you have to set useenv=true too
13:20:38 <TrueBrain> but then it can no longer find cl.exe
13:20:51 <TrueBrain> as it is not in the PATH of the ENV .. and all of a sudden it becomes stupid, and doesn't resolve it himself ...
13:21:00 <TrueBrain> I hate undocumented unclear shit
13:21:42 <TrueBrain> it normally overwrites the env .. UseEnv prevents it ...
13:21:47 <TrueBrain> why doesn't it ADD to them?! :(
13:23:14 <TrueBrain> guess it is easier to find the include path of VS, and drop the files in there
13:23:19 <TrueBrain> which is a nasty workaround ...
13:23:24 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: how did you solve that for CF?
13:27:34 <Rubidium> probably a global setting in an antique version of MSVC
13:28:48 <TrueBrain> I cannot believe I am stuck on something this trivial :D
13:32:40 <andythenorth> all the way to FF
13:43:15 <TrueBrain> I love how everyone keeps telling me I have to open something in the interface .. this is a Docker running a headless windows ... ffs :P
13:53:56 *** Tharbakim has joined #openttd
13:53:58 <Eddi|zuHause> TrueBrain: have you tried clicking on "Start"?
13:56:46 * andythenorth has 99 wagons to draw :|
13:57:02 <andythenorth> multiple generations suck :P
14:02:22 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: if you're done, can you start with the 1000-ish missing vehicles from CETS? :p
14:03:25 <Alberth> or do something in the 1000 building set :p
14:09:31 <TrueBrain> even the develop console doesn't want to work :P Lol
14:16:53 <TrueBrain> finally I managed to inject my own include path ...
14:21:12 <LordAro> TrueBrain: oh hey, did i screw up my VS version detection? i (obviously) didn't test it myself, but was assured that the version of VS i set would have it
14:21:34 *** frosch123 has joined #openttd
14:22:16 <LordAro> and why are both of the projects i work with active today
14:22:20 <TrueBrain> LordAro: it turns out it has it, but not out of the box :)
14:22:25 <LordAro> i've only got so much time!
14:22:33 <TrueBrain> fallthrough is part of the stdc++latest, for what-ever-reason
14:22:33 <LordAro> TrueBrain: ah, of course
14:22:37 <TrueBrain> the default is stdc++14
14:22:41 <TrueBrain> so the project needs to be switched
14:22:47 <TrueBrain> but there are no project files to switch :D
14:22:55 <TrueBrain> not sure if you can detect that tbh, from code
14:22:57 <LordAro> i guess that's technically more correct than gcc/clang
14:23:10 <TrueBrain> specs say it should be part of stdc++11
14:23:14 <TrueBrain> but ... VS2017 is weird
14:23:20 *** gelignite has joined #openttd
14:23:29 <TrueBrain> down to 6 warnings and 5 errors
14:23:41 <TrueBrain> genworld_gui.cpp does bitshifts VS2017 doesnt agree with (or warn for)
14:23:51 <TrueBrain> and sse4 files are giving errors
14:24:27 <TrueBrain> LordAro: owh, lol .. yesterday a page suggested C++11 .. but I might have been blind
14:24:32 <TrueBrain> then it is even more obvious :D
14:24:57 <TrueBrain> so we either need a project file with stdc++latest flipped on, or we need a patch to fix stdc++14 :)
14:25:04 <TrueBrain> so many options! :D
14:25:17 <TrueBrain> _mm_cvtsi64_si128, identifier not found
14:25:29 <TrueBrain> might have been fixed btw, I had to downgrade a few versions :)
14:25:34 <TrueBrain> but I am getting somewhere!
14:40:01 *** orudge` has joined #openttd
14:40:02 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o orudge`
14:47:02 <TrueBrain> yesssss, it finally compiles automated .. give or take a few errors I still need to resolve :D
14:47:34 <TrueBrain> viewport_sprite_sorter_sse4: negative subscript
15:01:50 <TrueBrain> the wind is blowing?
15:02:44 <ChoHag> How can I deal with the problem of there being more passengers waiting in a town's stations than there are people living in the town?
15:02:59 <ChoHag> Apart from just shipping them around more efficiently, obviously.
15:07:02 <frosch123> LordAro: which msvc version supports static_assert?
15:09:11 <LordAro> frosch123: without looking, probably 2013ish?
15:10:10 <frosch123> which _MSC_VER is that? :p
15:19:39 <frosch123> what douchebag wrote the sse code?
15:20:08 <frosch123> #undef and #define the same thing differently in various headerfiles, seriously?
15:31:36 <Wolf01> Mmmh, how could I sync data between multiple devices without a server? And I also need to delete that data after all the devices synced, not just after the first one
15:32:51 <Wolf01> It's already in the cloud
15:35:34 <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r27916 /trunk/src (stdafx.h viewport_sprite_sorter.h) (2017-09-24 15:35:27 +0200 )
15:35:35 <DorpsGek> -Codechange: Enable usage of static_assert for MSVC
15:36:22 <Eddi|zuHause> then i don't understand the question
15:37:42 <Wolf01> I can't put the whole database in the cloud because there is a 100kb limit, each device could edit the entries and add new ones
15:38:24 <ChoHag> You know there's no _actual_ difference between "cloud", "device" and "server", right?
15:38:26 <Wolf01> I thought to put the edited/added entries on the clod and the other devices would get them
15:38:52 <Wolf01> ChoHag: please don't give me lessons about IT
15:39:10 <ChoHag> Hey I'm not the one that can't run rsync.
15:40:14 <Wolf01> I'm trying to solve a problem, and I don't need to lose myself into dialectical exercises
15:42:43 <ChoHag> Wow you're clearly too clever for the likes of me.
15:43:08 <ChoHag> Long words and *everything*...
15:43:32 <ChoHag> Do you now like being belittled? Then don't be arrogant.
15:43:49 <ChoHag> (See I know fancy smart-sounding words too!)
15:43:54 <Wolf01> I don't want to get picky, and I could be really picky
15:44:32 <ChoHag> The word you're looking for is "pedantic".
15:45:20 <ChoHag> Oh noes! Am I being /ignored?
15:46:07 <ChoHag> I *need* people who can't shift bits around on a network to listen to my sarcastic blatherings!
15:46:52 *** Flygon_ has joined #openttd
16:03:05 <Eddi|zuHause> Wolf01: so you don't have enough space in the server, and want to keep the updates around as short as possible?
16:03:16 <Eddi|zuHause> Wolf01: do you know how many clients there are?
16:04:29 <Wolf01> Yes, there's a policy of 100kb per application, I could submit even 10MB of data but it won't be synced until it drops under 100kb, so I need to keep it as small as possible
16:04:46 <Wolf01> No, I don't know how many devices there are
16:05:36 <Wolf01> And the sync happens automatically, I just need to write something in the local storage
16:06:34 <Eddi|zuHause> but it needs to be in the local storage long enough that the other devices notice the update?
16:07:07 <Eddi|zuHause> what happens if devices get temporarily disconnected?
16:07:12 <Eddi|zuHause> or new devices appear?
16:07:29 <Wolf01> That's the point, I don't even know if the other devices are connected
16:08:33 <Wolf01> The new devices only get the new elements, but I'm thinking about doing a full sync via file
16:08:44 <supermop_home> bus route A takes 60 days, and B takes 90
16:09:07 <supermop_home> wonder if I should have them each on 15 day interval, separated by 5
16:09:11 <Eddi|zuHause> maybe you should do something like git versioning?
16:09:14 <supermop_home> or 30 days separated by 15
16:09:24 <Eddi|zuHause> each change gets a hash that builds upon a previous hash
16:10:03 <supermop_home> the 30 days would make it easier to scale to 10 days separated by 5
16:10:03 <Wolf01> A sort of incremental sync?
16:10:35 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: how many generations in CETS? :P
16:10:50 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: design goal was one every 10 years
16:10:58 <supermop_home> also route A is already yellow in cargo flow graph, where as B is dark green
16:11:01 <andythenorth> and how many classes of wagon?
16:11:51 <Wolf01> The problem is to avoid the build up of incremental changes, I already noticed that with about 15 changes I fill up the 100kb
16:12:13 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: about 3-4 passenger classes and some freight classes
16:13:23 <Eddi|zuHause> Wolf01: you should keep the last X changes around in 50kb (roll out the newest change by deleting the oldest)
16:13:40 <Wolf01> Maybe I could do a timeout thing, the changes older than "ver - 10" will be automatically deleted, and the devices which find a mismatch with their "ver" ask for a full sync via file instead
16:13:51 <Eddi|zuHause> Wolf01: and keep the other 50kb available for special requests if a device "missed" some changes
16:14:34 <Wolf01> Yes, I think I'll try this way
16:16:00 <Eddi|zuHause> so the request would work like: device A notices it is too far behind the latest sync, and puts its current hash there
16:16:41 <Eddi|zuHause> device B reads the hash, compiles X updates from this hash towards the "future" and puts them in the remaining 50kb
16:17:09 <Eddi|zuHause> device A reads these special updates, and replaces its "request-hash" with the now newest
16:17:14 <Eddi|zuHause> repeat until up-to-date
16:18:08 <Eddi|zuHause> if device C also notices it's not up-to-date it must wait until this process is finished
16:19:32 * andythenorth has about 20 wagon classes right now
16:19:46 <andythenorth> with FIRS cargos, it’s not implausible to have more
16:21:43 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: the passenger classes are commuter, normal, accelerated and express
16:22:33 <andythenorth> any mail classes?
16:22:54 <Eddi|zuHause> they come with mail cars which can also load valuables and express
16:23:28 <Eddi|zuHause> and for other cargos there are box, open, flat, liquid and some specialized (e.g. livestock)
16:23:48 <Eddi|zuHause> i probably forgot some
16:24:26 <Wolf01> I think I understood the logic, but it seem to work better with a SOAP/REST infrastructure, I should try it with the local storage, as I don't want to write many requests back and forth, I can't control what happen inside it and I don't think there's a way to pause it (without exceeding the quota)
16:26:51 *** orudge` has joined #openttd
16:26:51 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o orudge`
16:47:12 * andythenorth wonders whether to do one wagon class per FIRS cargo type
16:47:15 <andythenorth> that would be 64
16:49:41 <frosch123> anti nuts :p no refittability by order
16:54:29 <Wolf01> Mmmh, you bake a cake in the oven, but what do you do if the cake is a cold one? Still bake?
16:54:50 <supermop_home> you want the cake to be cold?
16:55:17 <supermop_home> let it cool down after it comes out of the oven
16:55:21 <Wolf01> A cake which goes in the fridge and not in the oven, like a cream cake
16:55:38 <supermop_home> the cake part still gets baked
16:55:54 <supermop_home> then when it cools off, you add the other parts
16:55:58 <Wolf01> Ok, but how do you call the process of making that kind of cake?
16:55:59 <supermop_home> then put it in fridge
16:56:12 <supermop_home> I would still say baking in english
16:56:26 <supermop_home> but pastry chefs may have more specific jargon
16:57:01 <supermop_home> could say 'prepare'
17:00:27 <Wolf01> Yes, it's the same in italian, I think I just choose the wrong example for my exercise, difficult to find the right words to explain the procedure
17:00:33 *** Stimrol has joined #openttd
17:08:29 <frosch123> how fitting, the only cake of that type i know is called "cold dog" :p
17:14:06 <Eddi|zuHause> i never understood what dogs have to do with it
17:14:36 <frosch123> i guess they are equally cold and sticky
17:14:54 <Eddi|zuHause> anyway, the only reason why that is "only" a cold preparation is because you get the cookies pre-baked
17:15:56 <Eddi|zuHause> you can also get pre-baked cake bases, and just fit them with fruits and stuff
17:16:02 <frosch123> hmm, cake without prebaked stuff
17:16:18 <Wolf01> You don't have ice cream cakes in Germany?
17:16:44 <frosch123> there are fried things with ice inside
17:16:59 <frosch123> well, not easy to make :p
17:17:16 <Eddi|zuHause> i think i have seen ice-cakes
17:17:20 <Wolf01> I mean something like the Viennetta
17:17:27 <Eddi|zuHause> but you wouldn't associate that with "baking"
17:18:01 <Wolf01> Eh, neither do I, but you still say "I'm going to bake a cake"
17:18:09 <frosch123> i would never consider vienetta a cake :p
17:18:17 <frosch123> it's just ice with chocolate
17:18:48 <Eddi|zuHause> ice-cakes aren't technically cakes in this sense
17:19:14 <Eddi|zuHause> so you wouldn't call preparing an ice cake "baking"
17:19:19 <Wolf01> We also have a fruit juice / yogurt type of cake where even the biscuit part is not baked, you just put everything in the fridge and wait
17:20:02 <Eddi|zuHause> that's funny because "biscuit" literally means "twice baked"
17:21:53 <Eddi|zuHause> anyway, in german you also have sort of a distinction between "Kuchen" (something that is prepared and then baked) and "Torte" (something that is baked and then prepared)
17:24:49 <Eddi|zuHause> like you would make "Erdbeertorte" by baking the base, then putting the strawberries on (and some gelatine stuff). while you make "Apfelkuchen" by preparing the base, putting the apples and some covering on top, and then bake the whole thing
17:25:52 <Eddi|zuHause> (those are two "entry level" cakes you could do without studying the craft for ages :p)
17:26:27 <frosch123> i baked various things, but never those :p
17:31:38 <Wolf01> Ok, to avoid problems I call the methods "TestCakeA" and "TestCakeB" :D
17:34:25 <Eddi|zuHause> reminds me of Outpost, where the materials were called "Metal1", "Mineral2" or so, instead of real materials
17:36:27 <frosch123> outpost 1 was hilariously unfinished
17:37:06 <Eddi|zuHause> was very frustrating when the manual talked about game features that were nowhere to be found
17:37:28 <Wolf01> It's more like the movies scripts where the script authors don't know the weird things and often use "technobabble" or something like it
17:38:06 <Eddi|zuHause> "sir, the tech is overteching"
17:38:49 <Wolf01> Yeah, for example: "A specialised form of technobabble known as treknobabble (and listed in scripts simply as '[TECH]') was devised for the various long-running Star Trek television programs and movies, which relied upon quasi-scientific solutions to dramatic problems"
17:38:57 <Eddi|zuHause> the difference between those and outpost was, that outpost didn't go through the finishing steps
17:39:26 <Wolf01> andythenorth should do a set with "cargo 1, cargo 2, raw material 5"
17:39:36 <Eddi|zuHause> where the real science would be put in
17:53:53 <andythenorth> Wolf01: 'fridge cake’
17:54:00 <andythenorth> official UK term :P
17:55:02 * andythenorth thinks the 64 wagon classes idea fails
17:55:14 <andythenorth> only so many ways to arrange pixels in a 4/8 length
18:00:35 <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r27917 /trunk/projects (14 files) (2017-09-24 18:00:29 +0200 )
18:00:36 <DorpsGek> -Add: MSVC 2017 project file generator. Most noticeable, std:c++latest is enabled.
18:02:01 <frosch123> ^^ if anyone can test that :p
18:04:37 <frosch123> hmm, oh, so it is actually 141, not 150?
18:04:53 <frosch123> why do they have 3 different version numbers ...
18:05:10 <Wolf01> Because now it only changes the sdk
18:06:18 <Wolf01> It's missing the solution anyway
18:09:53 <frosch123> oh, actually not all files are subject to generation
18:19:34 <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r27918 /trunk/projects (33 files) (2017-09-24 18:19:29 +0200 )
18:19:35 <DorpsGek> -Fix (r27917): Next attempt for MSVC 2017
18:22:43 <Wolf01> Compiles and runs fine
18:24:21 <Wolf01> Dunno, maybe, I have a i7 5820k, it should support that set
18:25:09 <frosch123> well, then tb has to figure out what's wrong with the farm
18:28:17 <Wolf01> I was thinking if it would be possible to change the ///< doxygen comments to something else, I know that for doxygen they have a specific meaning, but VS is bitching about invalid xml (because it thinks the < opens a tag there, as /// is used for xml documentation)
18:28:44 <frosch123> those are the two options
18:29:48 <Wolf01> //!< should work, I'll see "ENUM_VALUE !< description" but always better than "you can't have a space there"
18:30:49 <Wolf01> Maybe I'll make a branch on my github fork for that
18:32:50 <Eddi|zuHause> so it's pretty much like i expected... there are 5 "winners" and only one "loser"
18:36:23 <frosch123> well, for a start: the difference to last time do not sum up to zero
18:51:59 <Wolf01> Mmmh The Dig on steam but the classic version, no hd remake like Grim Fandango :(
19:09:09 <andythenorth> 5/8 would be a stupid length choice for wagons eh
19:12:52 <andythenorth> works nice for 1 tile train yes
19:20:10 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: must be voter fraud :p
19:26:09 <andythenorth> 2 kinds of hopper wagon?
19:26:20 <andythenorth> how much variety is too much?
19:27:41 <Eddi|zuHause> none. there should be exactly 1 vehicle in the set that does everything!!!
19:28:27 <andythenorth> not convinced :P
19:29:05 <Eddi|zuHause> what's the difference between the two? (on pixel level)
19:30:17 <Eddi|zuHause> just use them for 2 generations?
19:31:56 <andythenorth> one is coal cargos
19:31:59 <andythenorth> one is quarry cargos
19:32:24 <Eddi|zuHause> that is not really a difference useful to show in the game
19:34:12 <andythenorth> it might only make sense if I pursue the ‘wagons for specific cargos’ route further
19:34:28 <andythenorth> so ‘stone and sand wagon’ rather than 'hopper'
19:34:37 <andythenorth> ‘coal and coke wagon’
19:34:43 <andythenorth> not sure it scales well :P
19:35:08 <Eddi|zuHause> it collides with future unknown industry set compatibility
19:35:34 <andythenorth> it’s also clunky to find the names
19:35:38 <Eddi|zuHause> and autorefit networks
19:35:41 <andythenorth> there is no need for total separation
19:35:58 <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r27919 /trunk/projects (4 files) (2017-09-24 19:35:51 +0200 )
19:35:59 <DorpsGek> -Fix: MSVC 2015 and 2017 project files referenced some MSVC 2010 files
19:38:09 <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r27920 /trunk/projects (4 files) (2017-09-24 19:38:03 +0200 )
19:38:10 <DorpsGek> -Fix: MSVC 2015 and 2017 project files referenced some MSVC 2010 files
19:38:16 * andythenorth wonders if Europe has different wagons for coal / aggregates
19:39:16 <Eddi|zuHause> plenty of different wagons going around europe, surely
19:53:42 *** Wormnest has joined #openttd
19:53:47 <andythenorth> coal is low density
19:54:09 <andythenorth> dump trucks have same, coal haulers have higher sides than stone haulers (for same chassis arrangement)
19:54:45 <andythenorth> not sure how I’d name them in game though
19:56:27 <andythenorth> “Lightweight Hopper Car"
19:56:33 <andythenorth> “Strong Hopper Car” :P
20:29:49 <andythenorth> maybe coal is ubiquitous enough to just have a “Coal Car"
20:29:55 <andythenorth> I already did that for Wood
20:48:39 *** mindlesstux has joined #openttd
21:13:49 <andythenorth> probably needed integer length at the station :P
21:37:18 <Wolf01> So in Germany won the civil world again
22:07:29 *** FLHerne has joined #openttd
22:19:52 <Eddi|zuHause> if by "win" you mean "on the brink of total collapse", then yes
22:21:34 <Wolf01> Bah, I don't think so, you preferred the extreme right wing?
22:24:09 <Eddi|zuHause> but if you look at it a little bit deeper, the parlamentary politics over the past 70 years worked like this: there are two opposing large parties, and one of them picked a small party and formed the government with it. but then there appeared more and more small parties, so that neither of the large parties could form a working government. then the two large parties made a common government, which even further accelerated this erosion
22:24:11 <Eddi|zuHause> of the large parties
22:25:19 <Eddi|zuHause> over the past 20-ish years that erosion was quicker on the left, and in the past 5-ish years it took up speed on the right
22:26:16 <Eddi|zuHause> now we're facing (probably) the first 3-party government on the federal level
22:26:35 *** sim-al2 has joined #openttd
22:26:37 <Eddi|zuHause> or 3.5, if you count the bavarian anomaly called "CSU"
22:26:55 <Wolf01> Here is even worse, we can continue as we are, give the country to the right wing or to the party which doesn't even know how politics work and hurt themselves in confusion (like pokemon), also we have a lot of little parties which are there only to make confusion... and the left wing is no more
22:27:01 <Eddi|zuHause> some of those parties with deep ideological differences
22:36:22 <Eddi|zuHause> Wolf01: just a figure to underline this erosion: the two parties that formed the government got 80% of the votes in 2013, and now they got 55%
22:38:49 <Wolf01> I don't think we saw numbers over 45% on the last 20 years
22:56:39 <supermop_> what the hell kind of resolution is 1670 px wide
23:01:47 <FLHerne> Maybe lose 5px on each side for underscanning or bezels or window borders or [...]
23:02:00 <FLHerne> (did I miss some context?)
23:14:55 <supermop_> project photos we got from a photograPHER
23:37:54 <Eddi|zuHause> Wolf01: well, 2013 had an exceptional number of "others" (<5%), so with 70% of the votes you got 80% of the seats (-ish)
continue to next day ⏵
