IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2017-09-20
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08:49:59 <twb> Hi, it's me again, the prison guy.
08:50:34 <twb> I unpacked the DOOM basemusic (from bananas) into /usr, and now when a new user starts openttd, they get doom by default instead of openmsx
08:50:46 <twb> What governs which gfx/sfx/msx is the default?
08:56:48 <V453000> I need to give that a try someday
08:57:45 <twb> I also noticed that doom was listed on banana's web UI but not on the in-game content manager
08:59:16 <V453000> does it have any version requirements?
08:59:30 <twb> I didn't look very hard so I might have just screwed things up
08:59:41 <twb> I mean: I might have looked wrong, and it *is* there, I'm just stupid
08:59:54 <twb> When I delete DOOM music, the default music is Scott Joplin
09:00:08 <V453000> well if you delete it of course there is some default
09:00:19 <V453000> however that is defined, no clue
09:00:21 <twb> is it just sorting alphabetically?
09:01:47 <V453000> damn now I need to obtain also the old ttd music
09:02:21 <V453000> the doom music is awesome if you have a map where is a shitload of trains, fits to the insanity
09:02:38 <V453000> in the startup screen it's a bit megamayhem XD need to change startup screen I guess
09:05:20 <twb> root@alef:~# ln -s openmsx /usr/share/games/openttd/baseset/OpenMSX
09:05:37 <twb> So it is probably just using the first one, sorted alphabetically in C locale
09:05:38 <V453000> wow didn't take long to pirate original music :D cba searching on my disks
09:05:51 <V453000> openmsx is trash I don't even download it
09:06:35 <twb> Maybe but I don't want to change the default to doom or joplin in case it triggers a riot
09:08:17 <V453000> well the default is noMusic
09:08:26 <andythenorth> V453000 trains are ass
09:08:39 <V453000> trains wreck all shit
09:08:48 <andythenorth> my nice engine scheme falls apart when speeds get high
09:08:58 <andythenorth> always problems when high
09:09:29 <andythenorth> think problem is reality
09:10:36 <V453000> why would there be a problem just because of speedS?
09:11:31 <andythenorth> nah, two fast engines, one electric, one diesel
09:11:34 <twb> Hey my dad said last week that if you use continuous welded rail, you don't need to ever re-weld using thermite because it's a single piece of track
09:11:55 <andythenorth> V453000: reality has electric engine 155mph, diesel engine 125mph
09:11:57 <twb> And I'm like "that's bullshit, if the track cracks dude to subsidence or something, you still have to reweld it"
09:12:04 <twb> I don't suppose you guys know
09:12:38 <twb> Ha- wikipedia says I'm right
09:12:54 <twb> »Thermite welding is used to repair or splice together existing CWR segments.«
09:13:14 <__ln__> but was his point that it won't crack at the point where it was welded earlier (any more likely than at any other point)
09:13:22 <andythenorth> V453000: also wtf
09:13:24 <__ln__> many points in that sentence
09:13:47 <V453000> I don't get the problem andythenorth
09:13:50 <twb> __ln__: yeah I grant that breaks are less common because fewer stress points &c
09:14:16 <andythenorth> is BS problem V453000, I just remembered that me and Dan invented the 155mph engine
09:14:19 <andythenorth> is not even realisms :P
09:14:42 <andythenorth> such non-problem
09:15:03 <andythenorth> schema must rule
09:15:57 <andythenorth> electric vs. non electric is challenge
09:16:02 <andythenorth> should be about equsl
09:16:12 <V453000> electric vs. non electric is just a change of one flag
09:16:19 <andythenorth> reason to build electric: Because Like The Sparks Animation
09:16:21 <twb> you mean electric vs. diesel-electric?
09:16:40 <twb> or like coal-fired steam shit like in northern china
09:16:57 <andythenorth> all of the above twb :)
09:17:25 <andythenorth> V453000: ok thanks, such many insights
09:17:28 <andythenorth> and it’s not even 9am yet
09:19:23 <V453000> if you can figure out a nice and sensible way how to make them differ, sure thing
09:19:29 <V453000> one can have more power while other can have more T.E.
09:19:35 <V453000> one can be faster or something
09:19:58 <V453000> or you can just have them be an upgrade to diesels in each of the classes
09:20:00 <andythenorth> and also eye candy
09:20:10 <andythenorth> should I do maglev?
09:20:14 <V453000> depends if you treat them as a train class or a generation
09:20:22 <V453000> I think maglev is awesome, monorail just as much
09:20:40 <andythenorth> I need some unrealism speeds after 2020 or so
09:20:42 <V453000> if as a class then give them specific behaviours : )
09:20:49 * andythenorth never plays past 1990 or so
09:21:06 <V453000> I find making a set last 1950-2050 is like the minimum for full functionality
09:21:13 <V453000> even vanilla does that
09:21:21 <V453000> so nuts has 1900 - 2100
09:21:29 <andythenorth> fast trains, you just have to build a perfect network
09:21:34 <andythenorth> no fucked up andythenorth junctions
09:21:52 <V453000> depends on their power and TE :P
09:22:06 <V453000> trains with giant TE simply don't give fucks
09:22:16 <andythenorth> super-fast acceleration
09:23:33 <andythenorth> so…dedicated railtype for super-fast train?
09:23:34 <twb> oh like how much shit they can pull
09:24:10 <V453000> more like how fast they accelerate at low speed, when translated to what it actually does
09:25:06 <V453000> in my priimitive explanation I always say that T.E. matters in low speeds and power makes trains reach top speed faster
09:25:22 <V453000> it's not perfectly accurate but from observation seems to be sufficient of an explanation for myself
09:26:05 <V453000> like in an actual prison people play openttd?
09:26:12 <V453000> fuck I am murdering people right now
09:27:17 <V453000> I'm not sure if it's the best way how to re-socialize but trainz man
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09:29:25 <twb> TBH I was surprised how popular it is
09:30:45 <V453000> I'd expect GTA to be most popular in prison XD
09:31:23 <__ln__> won't you get sued and put into prison for calling things "something-registered-trademark clone"?
09:31:46 <V453000> __ln__: they are already in prison, can't put them anywhere :P
09:31:49 <twb> Dunno, legal people said it was OK
09:31:57 <twb> If we get a C&D we can easily change it
09:32:12 <twb> It was just a lost clearer than all the wacky names that the underlying packages have
09:32:38 <__ln__> i can see that perspective, yes
09:33:11 <twb> I forget that you guys probably have a bunch of windows users still — most places I hang out are like 60/40 linux/macos, with like 2 token windows users
09:33:39 <V453000> is free to play FOSS?
09:34:25 <twb> V453000: it needs to meet either the Free Software Definition (from FSF) or the Debian Free Software Guidelines / Open Source Definition
09:35:28 <twb> The technical reason why they do games on the computer instead of a separate console, is that prison staff can impose automatic curfews, and remove computer privileges, without having to physically go into the cell with a violent inmate
09:36:00 <twb> If that means they can only get 90s-era games instead of like COD and GTA, they're like "meh whatever"
09:39:03 <V453000> wait so they actually have a computer in the cell?
09:39:31 <twb> how else would they study or talk to their lawyers and family
09:40:01 <V453000> why am I not in prison
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10:10:00 <andythenorth> so basically V453000, you’re saying I should do a full generation of trains in 2020?
10:10:07 <andythenorth> and not just novelty BS?
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10:24:34 <V453000> well what does a generation mean for you
10:24:52 <V453000> for me generation is just "same kind of engine, but better in every way", with new graphics ofc
10:33:56 <V453000> there are probably more ways to do it, I just come from the approach in nuts which is trying to keep it simple
10:34:26 <V453000> 1 class, generations in the class for time progression
10:34:46 <V453000> sure you can have hybrid trains which kind of belong to multiple classes but it will just become harder to make clear distinctions
10:35:08 <V453000> doesn't mean it's wrong, especially if the train has valid uses in some cases in the game
10:37:15 <andythenorth> classes are best
10:37:42 <andythenorth> can I be arsed to do classes in 2020 though :P
10:37:57 <andythenorth> or is 1990 end of Iron Horse progression? :P
10:38:11 <V453000> well they are just easier to develop and easier to understand for the player, someone might be more interested in not having them written anywhere and having them not so obvious so that they can discover themselves but...
10:38:29 <V453000> I believe true end should be at least 2050 to not be worse than vanilla :P
10:38:48 <V453000> the frequency at which trains come out by the end of the game doesn't need to be too high though
10:38:58 <V453000> just some 2 generations in 2000+ can easily be enough
10:39:15 <andythenorth> if I go to 2020 on 30 year generations
10:39:21 <andythenorth> then 2050 is reached
10:39:41 <andythenorth> when does monorail come in default game?
10:39:44 <V453000> in PART I plan to have generations every 20 years at the moment
10:39:54 <V453000> monorail train is called X2001 :P
10:40:18 <andythenorth> probably high-speed rail then
10:40:39 <andythenorth> compatible with ELRL + power-changing BS?
10:40:44 <andythenorth> or just own thing, no compatible?
10:41:16 <andythenorth> like HSPD can go on ELRL, but loses power
10:41:30 <andythenorth> and ELRL can go on HSPD, but blocks the route because it’s slow
10:42:01 <V453000> well I really like to use monorail and maglev because you already have that in the base graphics and it gives more variety to the set, but it has one big drawback that you need to address - autoreplacing between track types ... you can just recommend univrail / purr I guess
10:42:19 <twb> I just spent 20 minutes trying to work out why openttd was saying "file not writable"
10:42:22 <V453000> it's not a horrible concept but if you don't have a big reason for it, I would guess it's just confusing
10:42:28 <twb> $PWD was / rather than $HOME
10:42:38 <andythenorth> are waypoints ass? I never use them
10:42:48 <andythenorth> not sure how else to keep slow trains off the MOAR tracks
10:43:01 <V453000> having vehicles adjust their max speed property based on railtype also allows for some high level mayhem that only 0.01% of people will ever use :P
10:43:02 <twb> Hrm that's not the problem
10:43:14 <twb> Guess I'll have to strace
10:43:22 <V453000> but generally you should try to have all trains same speed
10:44:59 <andythenorth> auto-replacing :P
10:46:13 <V453000> Pikka's way of doing it in UKRS isn't stupid, making the maglev engines totally obscure lengths so that it makes no sense to autoreplace them, or you have to really prepare for it from earlier
10:46:31 <V453000> but I don't like that solution because it means "ok now you built that network, now abandon it and build an extra reinforcing line"
10:46:47 <V453000> while I think it's much more interesting to motivate you to fix your old shit and build on it
10:46:48 <andythenorth> that is why I didn’t bother with this in Horse 1
10:47:01 <andythenorth> also, types compatibility is ass
10:47:09 <andythenorth> if HSPD can go on ELRL, ELRL can go on HSPD
10:47:15 <andythenorth> because fuckwittedness
10:47:33 <andythenorth> frosch wants to fix that stupidity
10:47:34 <V453000> more sense to use monorail and/or maglev :P
10:49:44 <andythenorth> I am more interested in drawing cute trains with cargos + random
10:49:51 <andythenorth> than sorting out railtypes bollocks :P
10:50:08 <V453000> well sure you can draw whole cute generation for a railtype :P
10:50:13 <V453000> no messing and sorting out
10:51:19 <andythenorth> high speed is planes, no? :P
10:52:43 <V453000> some players on our servers don't even consider trains under 300km/h proper :P
10:52:49 <V453000> it's just fun to see them go fast
10:52:57 <V453000> also gives you the feeling of modern age
10:53:10 <V453000> if the game is in 160-200kmh forever it's just stale and the same
10:53:47 <V453000> my cap is around 500km/h, more is just dumb, 400km/h is fast as fuck, 300km/h is fast, 265km/h is slug-fast which is awesome
10:57:35 <andythenorth> 300km/h is also super-realism
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12:11:33 <andythenorth> so probably not railtypes then
12:11:38 <andythenorth> just fast trains
12:19:41 <peter1138> Just make it go 65535km/h
12:20:05 <andythenorth> how far does it move per tick?
12:20:06 <peter1138> Use callbacks to actually limit it to a proper speed.
12:20:21 <peter1138> That'll confuse no-one.
12:20:33 * andythenorth now trying a silly fast train
12:21:59 <andythenorth> 9000 is too large
12:24:46 <andythenorth> nml won’t accept it
12:24:51 <andythenorth> action 0 property too large
12:25:02 <andythenorth> won’t accept any value > 200
12:34:40 <V453000> do you give it units?
12:34:53 <V453000> also I know that callbacks can give more values
12:35:09 <V453000> but not sure if it relates to speed
12:36:33 <andythenorth> seems I ran into this before
12:36:40 <andythenorth> my code sets a warning if the speed is too high
12:54:25 <V453000> try disabling the REALISTIC_SPEEDS flag
14:04:25 <Wolf01> I should do an app for this
14:05:13 <Wolf01> Mmmh maybe with autohotkey
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14:35:16 <Wolf01> But uses its own render
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17:31:31 <Wolf01> Also pub and out for dinner, BBL
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19:01:40 <Eddi|zuHause> i have an unusually long usb cable
19:02:23 <frosch123> diameter is more important than length
19:05:21 <andythenorth> so how fast should trains go?
19:05:40 <frosch123> should there be a limit?
19:08:37 <frosch123> anyway, for cargo gameplay behaviour, the increase of speed*capacity should match the increase of industry output
19:08:57 <frosch123> or you need to sell trains after upgrading
19:09:36 <frosch123> (and yes, that is not easy to answer for firs :p)
19:11:40 <andythenorth> we need that ‘go to depot and sell’ thing
19:11:46 <andythenorth> also consist management :P
19:12:17 <frosch123> i went the lazy route and use overflow depots
19:13:06 <andythenorth> I use an order though, not the force-depot track layout
19:14:01 <frosch123> is use the force-depot directly in front of the station
19:14:12 <frosch123> all trains go the the depot and wait there until a platform is free
19:14:19 <frosch123> laziest setup of all :)
19:14:40 <frosch123> using the complete vertical storage space of depots
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19:21:59 <V453000> it's like saying automating in factorio is lazy
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19:23:52 <frosch123> isn't that what the achievements communicate?
19:24:20 <frosch123> also, i want a cogwheel shaped wheelchair
19:24:27 <frosch123> no, not wheelchair, the other thing
19:24:51 <frosch123> cogwheel shaped rocking chair :)
19:29:51 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: also add a "clone this train if it's full" order
19:30:09 <andythenorth> might as well add UI scripting eh :)
19:30:22 <Eddi|zuHause> 1: goto A, 2: clone train, 3: goto B, 4: sell train
19:31:06 <frosch123> good point, that also solves the train replacement
19:31:19 <frosch123> you only have to adjust a single train
19:31:29 <frosch123> and the older ones will phase out on their own
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20:33:50 <andythenorth> supermop_home: name some trains :P
20:34:02 * andythenorth is lacking inspiration for Brit roster for 1990 onwards
20:34:08 <andythenorth> 1) I never play this late
20:34:23 <andythenorth> 2) it exactly co-incides with my teenage train obsession
20:34:28 <andythenorth> so I know too much realism
20:47:13 <frosch123> hoi, any new planets?
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20:50:20 <planetmaker> I was actually busy to erode planets :D
20:50:57 <supermop> i spent liek 8+ hours trying to erode a map in the SE this past weekend
20:54:53 <frosch123> is that a mm scale on the right?
20:55:46 <andythenorth> supermop you have a question from me…at home :P
20:56:16 <supermop> i don't know if that computer is on?
20:56:23 <supermop> supermop_home: oh maybe it is
20:56:53 <supermop> well this one was asleep so i didn't see it
21:00:19 <frosch123> did you fly 542 times with that plane?
21:02:36 <supermop> andythenorth: similar, 90s is not enough locomotives, and all of them i've actually seen
21:03:31 <planetmaker> 31 parabols per flight. So that was awarded after 17 flights
21:03:46 <planetmaker> but that's the sum over the last 17 years or so
21:03:57 <supermop> how many more until you get a free flight?
21:04:11 <planetmaker> they were all free ... I was paid ;)
21:04:31 <frosch123> 31 sounds like they avoided 42
21:04:49 <planetmaker> reasoning is: 30 parabols. Plus a 0th for getting used-to
21:05:15 <Alberth> 17 flights is more mysterious :p
21:05:39 <supermop> also why not give the award for 500
21:05:42 <frosch123> ah, you throw up on the first one, and then you can get out the technical stuff which should stay clean :)
21:05:45 <Alberth> I mean, it's not a natural number to give anything
21:05:58 <planetmaker> it's now 18 flights ;)
21:06:16 <planetmaker> but depends on amount of team members of how many flights per campaign there are per person
21:06:33 <supermop> so if you are flying on a parabolic trajectory, how many miles do you earn?
21:07:02 <Alberth> I hope you're not starting to wonder why a commercial airplane never seems to be starting the 'normal' parabole flight pattern :p
21:07:10 <planetmaker> hm... 2 miles up, 2 miles down. And 1 minute flight at ~600 mph.
21:07:13 <V453000> I feel like I don't understand a word but I feel the urge to congratulate pm! :D
21:07:14 <supermop> the length of the parabola, or the straight line distance projected on earth?
21:07:33 <supermop> V453000: zero gravity
21:08:21 <frosch123> V453000: tl;dr; pm gets paid for testing fun parks
21:09:12 <V453000> so you fly an airplane up and down to get zero gravity state? :D like rollercoaster? :D
21:09:45 <frosch123> like a rollercoaster with a 2miles downhill
21:09:59 <V453000> the flight chart of altitude suggests that XD
21:10:05 <Alberth> rollercoaster doesn't quite reach zero gravity
21:10:07 <V453000> that's utterly awesome
21:10:14 <V453000> yeah blabla Alberth :P
21:10:22 <Alberth> those chair lifts that fall down do, though
21:10:26 <planetmaker> V453000, yeah, exactly taht
21:10:38 <V453000> may I ask what kind of research is it for? :P
21:10:44 <planetmaker> only if you easily get motion-sickness. Otherwise it's great fun :)
21:10:58 <V453000> I think I am quite resistant to that
21:11:19 <planetmaker> V453000, I'm not joking with my nickname :) Planet making or formation is what I'm getting paid for ;)
21:11:47 <V453000> oh so are you simulating space environment by that?
21:12:09 <planetmaker> yeah, the start of planet formation happens in the absence of big gravity :)
21:19:56 <V453000> so you are the pilot or one of the scientists on board? or both? XD
21:22:40 <planetmaker> I'm just one of the science guys floating several times through the images
21:22:40 <V453000> in english "flying airplanes" is a confusing term :P
21:22:50 <V453000> hm I didn't notice you
21:24:37 * andythenorth tries to spot PM
21:25:35 <andythenorth> I thought I saw him in a seat
21:26:54 <V453000> he's definitely investigating the hell out of that mysterious box in 4:42 right :)
21:26:55 <Rubidium> andythenorth: you mean at 1:31?
21:27:40 * andythenorth has only seen one picture of most ottd people
21:27:59 <V453000> andythenorth: saddest part is that I saw him at least twice in person XD
21:28:31 <planetmaker> 1:29, 1:51, 2:10, 2:22, 2:25, 4:41, 4:51
21:29:07 <planetmaker> so... what's new here?
21:29:25 <V453000> andythenorth is wrecking hs newgrfs every day, nothing new
21:29:33 <V453000> I'm finishing BRIX and planning next train set
21:30:05 <planetmaker> no cats? Or slugs set free accidentially and on rampage?
21:30:17 <andythenorth> drama such forums V453000
21:30:21 <andythenorth> but really low grade
21:30:22 <V453000> can't confirm no slugs
21:34:12 <Wolf01> I have 3 hours before sleepflix, what could I do?
21:34:45 <andythenorth> Wolf01: 5km on exercise bike
21:35:02 <andythenorth> it’s a great video
21:35:44 <V453000> andythenorth: it won't get an video-of-the-evening award but it's still awesome
21:35:50 <ic111> (happily, after about 4 days, my internet provider brought back service...)
21:37:07 <Wolf01> Wow, great video indeed
21:37:45 <V453000> and I'm sitting here making dumb ass trees for a 90s game :P
21:42:02 <supermop> ok so why does the first little rover have to go up on deck to drop off it's cargo
21:42:12 <supermop> looks like something from Dune
21:42:35 <supermop> or what i imagined dune looking like when i read it
21:42:53 <ic111> Ah, so a rewrite of the map generator GUI?
21:42:54 <supermop> i never played the game or saw any of the films
21:43:05 <Wolf01> I played with dune before reading the books, so I had few things left to immagination
21:43:13 <ic111> I extended that one in my rivers patch
21:43:52 <ic111> The rainfall river generator patch contains an additional option to choose the river generator, and a setting dialog to configure the generator settings
21:44:02 <Wolf01> ic111: yes, but I didn't use the classic "put everything on one window and remove what it's not really needed and move it to settings"
21:44:39 <ic111> Yes, you group the settings in something like tabs
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21:44:51 <Wolf01> Actually they are tabs
21:45:27 <ic111> Yes, they are (had the appearance of browser tabs in mind when I wrote "something like")
21:46:18 <ic111> I just start thinking - where would I place my river settings in that concept?
21:47:24 <Wolf01> I'd say on gameplay, as rivers alter the gameplay, not the map creation
21:48:10 <ic111> Hm, my first thought was "map, as rivers are part of the map"
21:48:22 <ic111> But you are right, everything in that dialog is related to the map
21:48:25 <andythenorth> planetmaker: don’t you to use tricks to build the seaplane airport?
21:48:41 <andythenorth> with canal or so?
21:49:01 <Wolf01> "Map" should be "general", you have the most common changed settings for generation
21:49:15 <ic111> What I meant is especially: I have one additional dropdown for choosing the generator - but then a couple of generator settings that are currently in a separate dialog
21:49:51 <ic111> So, either one would need a button under "Gameplay" to access that dialog, or an additional tab - which might interfere with overall design of that window...
21:50:16 <ic111> Especially, as my dialog is wider than one column of widgets
21:51:05 <Wolf01> The window I made is really small compared to the old one
21:51:22 <Wolf01> So I think there's some margin of expansion
21:54:46 <Wolf01> Yes, could have a tab on its own or a button on the gameplay tab
21:55:55 <ic111> Anyway, probably the timetable patch consumes enough of my time at the moment ;-)
21:56:54 <Wolf01> Oh, mine was just a demo to show you that you can change the old approach to create UIs, they don't need to be a static rectangle filled with widgets ;)
21:56:59 <Wolf01> The SELECTION widget is really powerful, it only needs to be handled carefully
21:58:28 <ic111> Though I learned quite a lot about the limits of the OpenTTD GUI engine when I designed that river configuration window
21:58:37 <ic111> (maybe also about my limits to understand it...)
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22:05:20 <V453000> hmm, ALL 4 climates are wrong in my "tree sprite ID table" :D
22:07:19 <andythenorth> need advice / ideas
22:07:27 <andythenorth> ?? need deciding
22:07:32 <andythenorth> or don’t continue to 2020
22:08:28 <andythenorth> realism says 125mph, then 186mph, but only special train on special railtype
22:08:48 <andythenorth> or 90, 140, 186 or so
22:08:53 <V453000> no need for special railtype
22:08:59 <andythenorth> railtype bollocks boggles my brain
22:09:10 <V453000> mono and mglv is cute
22:09:21 <andythenorth> did anyone make a decent mglv grf?
22:09:24 <V453000> but if you don't like it then it's not just pure benefit, has some downside
22:09:29 <V453000> andythenorth: nuts? :P
22:09:35 <V453000> other than that not really
22:09:38 <andythenorth> ok fine, add NUTs with Horse
22:10:46 <andythenorth> up to 1990 horse is ‘engine’ and ‘pax cars’ and ‘mail cars'
22:11:05 <andythenorth> switch to some unit thing?
22:11:22 <V453000> you can always have it look like an unit :)
22:11:43 <andythenorth> problem is, I don’t really care :)
22:11:52 <V453000> well in that case it's clear XD
22:11:55 <andythenorth> was useful having a DanMacK
22:11:58 <andythenorth> to do some caring
22:11:59 <V453000> I really like passenger trains looking like units
22:12:04 <andythenorth> outsource caring, I just code and draw
22:12:06 <V453000> all passenger class trains in nuts do that
22:12:10 <V453000> shitload of switches for graphics
22:12:19 <andythenorth> do you use two-headed train thing?
22:12:46 <andythenorth> cabooses are two-headed
22:14:29 <V453000> generally for passenger trains yeah
22:14:36 <V453000> not really much for freight
22:14:39 <andythenorth> could mess with dates, add whole new class of trains, two-headed
22:14:40 <V453000> except mono, mglv and slugs
22:14:53 <andythenorth> introduce 1980 or so, mess up nice order
22:15:09 <V453000> I really like double headed trains, makes trains reverse nicely in dead end stations :OP
22:18:12 <frosch123> andythenorth: you can have early engines which are really fast, but too weak to reach topspeed with more than 2 wagons
22:19:02 <V453000> I would imagine the express freight to do that yeah
22:19:42 <andythenorth> what is most eye candy things
22:20:01 * andythenorth could just do 1860-1960 :P
22:20:07 <andythenorth> still 100 years, right?
22:20:21 <frosch123> generally, the train front
22:20:51 <frosch123> tgv and ice look very similar, shinkansen looks really different
22:22:14 <andythenorth> Wolf01: is to keep contact in poor weather
22:22:33 <andythenorth> also that station is notorious for people taking pictures with part of station name obscured by train
22:23:16 <supermop> frosch123: tgv and the first ice have locomotives
22:23:26 <supermop> shinkansen was emu from the start
22:24:21 <Wolf01> I always thought the pantographs were linked so you raise the right one based on the direction you need to go
22:24:25 <frosch123> supermop: shinkansen is extremely long in the front
22:24:41 <supermop> that's new since 97/00 ish
22:24:55 <supermop> before they were more bullnosed
22:25:11 <supermop> to reduce shock in tunnels
22:25:44 <FLHerne> Wolf01: Woodhead was 1500V DC
22:26:08 <FLHerne> Wolf01: So considerably higher-current than the 25kV things you get now
22:26:33 <FLHerne> If you just had one pantograph, you'd probably be melting the wire over the contact point
22:26:50 <FLHerne> Er, no, that makes no sense
22:27:01 <frosch123> and possibly some actual shinkansen set
22:28:11 <supermop> frosch123: that's a JR maglev
22:28:23 <V453000> nuts doesn't really use that shape I think
22:28:30 <V453000> something similarly fucked up, probably yes
22:28:34 <supermop> n700 sets are somewhat similar, just less extreme
22:29:41 <supermop> i would argue that tgv is quite different from the ice, not just for having a locomotive, but because of the way the 'sides' of the front roll off
22:29:48 <FLHerne> (inb4 someone gets pedantic and insists that 325s are really more like 319s underneath)
22:30:06 <andythenorth> FLHerne: there is the tin rocket thing from 1998 currently, 100mph, pax, express freight
22:30:10 <andythenorth> looks like a sprinter
22:30:17 <andythenorth> not convinced by it
22:30:48 <andythenorth> 100mph is not a speed point
22:31:13 <andythenorth> 1990, 90mph probably
22:31:23 <andythenorth> then 2020: bi-mode??, ??? mph
22:31:29 <frosch123> V453000: hmm, i thought there were more engines which looked like mono-fast-endgame
22:31:40 <frosch123> no idea what i remembered
22:31:48 <V453000> some of the early version might have more wtf shapes actually
22:33:01 <andythenorth> why is it total kitten-killing to have engines carry mail?
22:33:15 <frosch123> andythenorth: make a japanese roaster, the engines look way more interesting
22:33:15 <FLHerne> andythenorth: Because it causes stations to start providing mail
22:33:24 <V453000> if they can't carry passengers, then it makes stations provide mail
22:33:24 <FLHerne> andythenorth: While not providing any real mail capacity
22:33:30 <andythenorth> frosch123: once I have a schema :P
22:33:48 <FLHerne> So then it forces you to build a mail network, which can be annoying if you didn't really want to
22:33:50 <andythenorth> Africa roster is 50% done already, and had more schema, I am ret-conning now
22:33:56 <andythenorth> Japan roster is valid
22:34:02 * FLHerne does anyway usually, so doesn't care
22:34:25 <andythenorth> so, something like HST with mail on engines, no no no
22:34:33 <andythenorth> means fast mail car needed then
22:35:21 <andythenorth> which means fast express freight also
22:35:32 <andythenorth> dunno 180mph food seems daft
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22:36:03 <V453000> 13 tropic trees, 2 cacti, 3 more tropic trees
22:36:45 <andythenorth> just make sure they are integer heights
22:37:07 <supermop> i wrote out a japan roster
22:37:21 <andythenorth> was it real, or made up?
22:37:32 <V453000> I really hate "this country" newgrf at this point
22:38:13 <andythenorth> V453000: you shock me :)
22:39:01 <andythenorth> FLHerne: seems legit
22:42:00 <FLHerne> (hasn't actually happened yet)
22:45:25 <frosch123> V453000: do you prefert 2cc's "every country"? :p
22:55:47 <Wolf01> andythenorth: any advice on the size of the locomotives? In cubes maybe
22:56:51 <Wolf01> I noticed that they get really weird if I need to keep space for pantograph
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23:00:11 <Wolf01> Also I whink I'll switch to voxelshop
23:00:31 <Wolf01> Supports textures and skeletal animation
23:02:58 <Wolf01> Wow, I can import a square palette
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23:06:21 <Wolf01> Ok, nice but too much powerful for what I'm doing
23:08:00 <andythenorth> 8 wide, probably 40 long
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23:44:58 <andythenorth> integer length? o_O
23:46:02 <Wolf01> Articulated (2 parts), I want to do a 1 tile long (or more) in 3 parts
23:46:51 <andythenorth> going to 2050 is daft :P
23:47:06 <andythenorth> just ends up with multiple daft OP, super-fast units
23:51:03 <Wolf01> I think for the 3 part one I'll stick to the crocodile design :/
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23:53:16 <andythenorth> I like those chunky electric trains
23:53:25 * andythenorth wants to do a roster of those
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