IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2017-09-04
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10:42:58 <Alkel_U3> I like this particular monday so far
10:43:56 <andythenorth> mine contains more <br /> than I want
10:44:07 <andythenorth> and it’s nobody else’s job to fix them
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11:03:14 <V453000> I'm getting wrecked by blender again :D
11:03:59 <andythenorth> stop moonlighting on this F thing
11:04:04 <andythenorth> just because it pays you :P
11:04:22 <andythenorth> Yetis feel neglected
11:06:01 <andythenorth> we need a back-to-work bot
11:06:14 <andythenorth> for certain hours of day :P
11:06:48 <crem> If I ever recommended Prison Architect, I've reconsidered it and revoking my recommendation.
11:07:03 <andythenorth> unless I make the websites to sell more stuff, I won’t be able to employ anyone else to make the websites :P
11:07:12 <V453000> stronk recommendation statement right there
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11:10:17 <peter1138> Not Recommended: 私は工場で働き、ここにはモンスターがないことを伝えます。
11:13:37 <peter1138> i usually look at reviews
11:13:48 <peter1138> then ignore them, buy the game, install it, then never play it.
11:13:57 <peter1138> stupid humble bundles
11:15:26 <Wolf01> I follow also indiegala which used to gift games 2 times a week, now my library is full of those 0.99-1.99€ games which I'll never play
11:16:15 <peter1138> i think i had a couple of free games years ago but nothing since
11:17:46 <V453000> I usually ignore new games and just reinstall old games again :D
11:20:52 <__ln__> also, congratulations sweden for your 50 years + 1 day of right-hand side traffic
11:21:01 <__ln__> though i don't see any swedes around here
11:31:13 <Wolf01> Meh, I can't have friends in township... they use android/ios
11:31:51 <andythenorth> I have township on the mac
11:31:57 <andythenorth> kids play it, not me
11:32:01 <andythenorth> it’s cute, but eh
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12:11:47 <peter1138> it's 11:11. why am i starving?
12:12:02 <andythenorth> because you haven’t had manchego yet
12:12:28 <Wolf01> Lol -> [12:12:12] <Wolf01> It's 12:12 here
12:13:24 <andythenorth> time just don’t stop
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12:31:06 <andythenorth> Wolf01: shall we try and fix NRT merge? o_O
12:33:45 <andythenorth> there’s one lang conflict
12:33:59 * andythenorth can’t read dutch
12:34:07 * andythenorth is scared of the other two :P
12:39:59 <Wolf01> "HEAD is now at bad0212" <- it's BAD! XD
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12:41:18 <Wolf01> Mmmh, it's still saying that it can't merge because uncommitted changes... no changes, already reset --hard and still the error
12:42:40 <__ln__> try: echo '* binary' > .gitattributes ; git checkout .
12:46:03 <__ln__> that's it, problem solved if all went well
12:46:49 <Wolf01> binary' is not a valid attribute name: .gitattributes:1
12:49:12 <Wolf01> Removed the ' and worked (I executed the commands one by onw)
12:49:45 <__ln__> err, no you don't want to remove the quotes, as we want a literal * in the file, not a list of files.
12:50:28 <Wolf01> I created the .gitattributes by hand
12:51:46 <__ln__> its contents should be "* binary" without the quotes
12:52:02 <Wolf01> That's what I wrote in it
12:52:21 <Wolf01> echo 'stuff' > file writes 'stuff' into the file
12:54:45 <Wolf01> I can't understand the conflict diff... if only it tells me where it conflicts and not all the changes
12:59:00 <Wolf01> Oh found it, the file map didn't show the right colour for conflicts
13:00:35 <Wolf01> Stupid conflict... it's because it diffs between half of the top line and half of the bottom line, and the bottom line changed
13:01:20 <LordAro> there's usually a way you can tell it to not care so much
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13:07:25 <nekomaster> I'm having a weird issue with my Belgian Train Set project :/
13:07:33 <nekomaster> Nothing appears unless NuTracks is loaded
13:08:46 <nekomaster> I only have 4 wagons right now but the MU Wagons dont appear even though they're set for "RAIL"
13:09:12 <nekomaster> and I set MTRO type in the Railtypes.pnml to default to ELRL if no 3rd rail or metro track is available
13:14:19 <nekomaster> I never had this issue with my NARS Add-on set when I started making it with 2cc Trains code
13:14:34 <andythenorth> got an engine for the wagons?
13:17:37 <Wolf01> I think $friend will come soon to ask for a solution for the grf scanning problem
13:17:55 <nekomaster> GRF scanning problem?
13:18:24 <Wolf01> Yes, the scan ottd does at the start
13:18:34 <nekomaster> Yeah, and t heres an issue?
13:19:47 <nekomaster> I duno if I've had that issue before
13:20:14 <nekomaster> On slower computers though it does seem to hang for me if it can't find a bunch of GRF's already setup in a Preset
13:22:01 <Wolf01> andythenorth: it was the easiest conflict merge I ever found...
13:22:25 <Wolf01> With tortoiseSVN it should have merged automatically
13:24:53 <V453000> automating 1 minute task for the last 1.5 hour
13:29:34 <Wolf01> Mmmh, something is broken in saveload
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13:36:07 <Wolf01> Oh, that doesn't matter, even forcing the subtype it still throws the error
13:37:17 <Wolf01> A nice division by 0 when trying to create an electric spark effect
13:37:59 <Wolf01> I thought it was because the vehicle was of the wrong type
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13:44:27 <nekomaster> Ok, so not only do the MU/Metro Wagons not appear without NuTracks, but my first steam engine doesnt appear at all (even though the compiler had no issues)
13:46:16 <nekomaster> I have no idea why nothing works
13:51:00 <Wolf01> I can't understand why a vehicle has 0 max speed
13:52:36 <andythenorth> effect vehicles?
13:54:39 <Wolf01> I think the roadsubtype compatibility is set wrong on load
13:55:40 <eekee> is there a way to have snow-capped mountains with temperate grass? 'smooth snow transition' grf claims to set arctic grass to temperate if you set a parameter, but it's unclear and setting the first parameter to '1' doesn't do it
13:56:12 <Wolf01> It puts temperate grass on arctic
13:56:16 <andythenorth> there is a grf for Alpine climate
13:56:26 <andythenorth> but it doesn’t work with lots of things
13:56:38 <nekomaster> OpenGFX landscape also has an alpine setting
13:56:44 <andythenorth> quite fun though, farms close in winter in Alpine
13:57:36 <nekomaster> you can also set the Snowline for winter and summer in OpenGFX
13:57:49 <nekomaster> I tend to have it set to the lowest it will go for Winter to simulate a Canadian winter
13:58:03 <nekomaster> during the Summer though only really tall stuff has snow
13:58:11 <nekomaster> Like the Rocky Mountains
13:58:59 <nekomaster> Also I'm still having an issue with my Steam engine not appearing at all
14:03:43 <eekee> i'm more tired than i thought -- i'm trying to debug my life, things are wierd at the mo, lol
14:05:40 <nekomaster> I have the Steam engine set for RAIL and Rail is defined in the railtypetable.pnml, but its not appearing ingame
14:05:58 <nekomaster> its suppose to appear in 1835 and its 2001 in game
14:06:54 <eekee> when is it supposed to disappear?
14:07:13 <nekomaster> 40 years after 1835, but I have "Vehicles never expire" on
14:07:30 <eekee> did you try the 'resetengines' command?
14:07:46 <nekomaster> yeah, I set the game to 1840 and nothing still
14:08:07 <eekee> is the rail type case sensitive?
14:08:31 <nekomaster> RAIL refers to the original default RAIL
14:09:17 <nekomaster> This is something I imagine I'm going to need help from a NML Coder that knows how to code a trainset
14:09:33 <nekomaster> this never happened to me before like with my NARS Add-on Set 2cc
14:12:34 <andythenorth> nekomaster: got a railtype table in the grf?
14:12:40 * andythenorth just guessing stuff
14:12:46 <nekomaster> it came with the 2cc Trains code
14:17:30 <nekomaster> maybe someone can look at my code and see whats screwing up my Special wagons and my only Steam Engine
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14:41:04 <Wolf01> Mmmh, why does VEH_ROAD has gcache.cache_max_speed in one point and gcache_cached_max_track_speed in another point?
14:41:57 <Wolf01> Both are instances of RoadVehicle
14:42:57 <peter1138> one is the vehicle's max speed and the other is tile-based max speed?
14:43:25 <Wolf01> Could be, then the problem is in the tile and not in the vehicle
14:43:47 <Wolf01> But both show the right max speed
14:44:19 <Wolf01> And I get 0 when I need it as divisor
14:52:17 <Wolf01> Ahahah I disconnected an articulated tram
14:53:22 <Wolf01> Ok, I could guess what it happened, the second part of the tram has max speed of 0 but tried to create an electric spark effect
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14:54:06 <Wolf01> Because setting the cached max speed didn't crash on effect but the rear part started to run faster than the front part
14:54:26 <Wolf01> So the front part recalculated the real max speed, the back part didn't
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14:56:08 <_maddy> is it possible to change newgrf settings while game is already running?
14:56:28 <_maddy> tell me the unreliable way
14:57:14 <andythenorth> if you do that, you don’t get any support ;)
14:57:23 <andythenorth> also it *does* crash a lot
14:57:32 <Wolf01> Also, why if I disable "full detail" it still trying to create the spark effect?
14:57:37 <andythenorth> forums posters will say “I do it all the time and it’s fine"
14:57:47 <andythenorth> but I do it all the time, and I crash the game a lot
14:57:59 <andythenorth> Wolf01: full detail is just fences + animated blitter
14:58:19 <andythenorth> ah, no they’re two separate things
14:58:35 <Wolf01> I disabled all and still get that stuff
14:58:51 <andythenorth> full detail is just fences no?
14:58:58 <andythenorth> and full animation is animated blitter
14:59:02 <andythenorth> docs will know :P
14:59:32 <Wolf01> I'll move all the separate things to Extended transparency toolbar
15:00:21 <andythenorth> full detail is daft
15:00:34 <andythenorth> full animation is very useful, at least while the blitter is still shafted
15:00:57 <_maddy> andythenorth: thanks, it seems to work, and didn't crash.. just needed to change one setting, I would have had to restart anyway otherwise
15:01:17 <andythenorth> Wolf01: the blitter might get fixed :P
15:02:25 <V453000> I dare repeat the most glaring issue: gui switch between 8bpp and 32bpp
15:02:31 <Wolf01> Now... why the rear part doesn't get the right values is a mistery
15:03:09 * andythenorth considers starting a Patch Pack
15:34:01 <LordAro> andythenorth: AndyThePatch
15:35:01 <V453000> that's going to be horrible
15:44:47 <eekee> i've gone off 32bpp for ottd
15:45:48 <peter1138> we should remove it
15:46:05 <andythenorth> you won’t though :)
15:46:14 <eekee> btw, can a grf add road types? i'm thinking of rough tracks suitable for tractors or, say, cattle droves, but not busses
15:46:24 <eekee> extra zoom is vital to me :D
15:47:20 <andythenorth> peter1138: I can’t convince anybody to do 1-in, 1-out on features :P
15:47:46 <V453000> if you remove x4 and 32bpp after I have been working on it for 4 years, there will be blood XD
15:48:08 <V453000> and it might also save my sanity
15:48:53 <eekee> i kinda know the feeling. i've had to drop 90% of my coding ambitions for the sake of my sanity
15:50:30 <V453000> I cut down a lot and progress slower than I would like, but progress. And that's what's counts eventually :)
15:51:12 <peter1138> i should revisit terrain generation
15:51:23 <peter1138> make variety work properly f.e.
15:54:44 <eekee> nothing to do except sit & watch the sailing ships go by while i wait for the money to build up. i accidentally picked just the right starting conditions for a game in my very tired state lol
16:05:30 <V453000> that would be incredible peter1138
16:10:16 <andythenorth> why is Steam client so bad
16:11:31 <peter1138> they're too busy working on HL3 to fix it
16:15:46 <peter1138> like i'm too busy playing minecraft to fix ottd
16:20:08 <eekee> i've been thinking for weeks, i could start looking at ottd's code, but i'm too busy playing it :)
16:22:25 <peter1138> you'll stop enjoying it
16:24:00 <andythenorth> why does Steam want to register with assistive devices control?
16:30:48 <peter1138> andythenorth, maybe big picture mode
16:31:02 <andythenorth> it started crashing
16:31:15 <andythenorth> I don’t want to play Euro Truck Simulator enough to figure that out :P
16:36:46 <andythenorth> actually that’s what I was trying
16:36:53 <andythenorth> ETS 1 is a bit fuzzy
16:44:53 <crem> If only you could drive a truck in openttd...
16:45:05 <peter1138> 50 second intro... what is this
16:47:18 <V453000> omg not this retard again
16:50:40 <Alkel_U3> I hope that was addressing A. V. Nerd and not me :P
16:52:23 <eekee> erf... how do you keep a town sweet without any road vehicles? just pick up any cargo within its area?
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16:54:04 <Alkel_U3> iirc you need 5 active stations of any kind for maximum positive effect on the city
16:54:25 <Cadadadry> wishing to try and play cooperation, who's in ?
16:55:07 <eekee> Alkel_U3: interesting, ty
16:56:36 <Cadadadry> Are you guys always playing solo, or not playing any more ?
16:57:09 <Alkel_U3> eekee: that's off the top of my had, mind you. Last time I used information like that was when I played on Luukland servers and that is a few years ago and I don't guarantee it to be correct :-)
16:57:36 <peter1138> i liked playing casual coop
16:58:01 <Alkel_U3> yeah, but solo is less time restricted :-)
16:58:16 <eekee> Alkel_U3: ok :D i just want to build something to pick up my rating after i destroy all the trees lol. i built 2 1x1 train stations
16:58:31 <Cadadadry> sure, but rewarding less pleasure too AFAIK
16:58:40 <peter1138> build something before your destroy them ;p
16:59:23 <Alkel_U3> eekee: I hope you have a newgrf stations with wooden platforms so you can reuse those poor trees :P
16:59:48 <eekee> i have actually, but the towns don't care lol
17:00:12 <eekee> peter1138: that's what i do. usually build bus or tram
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17:04:43 <Cadadadry> Where can I find a list of newgrf compatible with each other ?
17:05:17 <Cadadadry> or a list of unusual not compatible newgrf's ?
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17:05:46 <andythenorth> Cadadadry: there’s no list like that
17:05:52 <andythenorth> there is a nice list in Wiki
17:07:19 <andythenorth> broadly, compatibility only arises for
17:07:28 <andythenorth> (1) old grfs that do things in outdated ways
17:07:36 <andythenorth> (2) industry grfs
17:08:04 <andythenorth> most vehicle sets compatibility is zero problem
17:08:24 <andythenorth> although you might need to match up railtypes grfs with train grfs
17:08:28 <Alberth> except for artistic clashes :p
17:08:38 <andythenorth> look at all my terrible fonts :)
17:08:54 <andythenorth> newgrf is pretty similar to fonts
17:09:57 <eekee> firs will tell you if a grf clashes with it
17:11:54 <Cadadadry> I've been DLing a lot of newgrf's a few days ago, selected all starting with "UK" and played a game that way... But I'm wondering what I can choose next to add...?
17:12:13 <andythenorth> so many choices :)
17:12:50 <Alberth> start with a few, so you can better understand what each grf does
17:13:29 <V453000> download 65 of them and file a bug report
17:13:37 <eekee> firs is firs industry replacement set. gives quite a different feel to the game
17:13:44 <V453000> specifically mention andythenorth and everything being his fault
17:13:45 <Cadadadry> just added tramways and buffers last night... Waiting for the year (?) to see tramways getting available...
17:14:11 <eekee> Cadadadry: did you add a tram grf too?
17:14:32 <Cadadadry> I guess so, I can check if you want
17:15:05 <Cadadadry> btw I always start game in 1830 :D
17:15:08 <crem> Btw is there a pigeon newgrf for mail transport?
17:15:36 <eekee> hehe crem! i think one could be made
17:15:40 <Cadadadry> I know one pigeon named "e_"
17:16:12 <crem> Maybe if you treat them as airplanes which need airport...
17:17:20 <Alberth> default airports exist from 1960 :)
17:19:14 <eekee> i mostly like egrvts, but its biggest passenger trams get too small and too slow-loading late in the game. i've taken to loading an old 2cc tram set and 'long vehicles v4 (2008)'
17:22:16 <_dp_> eekee, Alkel_U3, 5 stations limit is for town growth, for authority rating it's the more the merrier
17:22:34 <_dp_> on btpro people sometimes do like 20+ stations to get rating to 1000 rly fast
17:23:32 <_dp_> eekee, just keep in mind they have to be active stations (1 load/unload in 50 days), inactive ones hurt rating
17:24:11 <_dp_> small towns sometimes don't provide enough passengers to sustain 20 active stations
17:24:13 <eekee> _dp_: yeah, i saw inactive ones hurt rating
17:24:50 <Alkel_U3> _dp_: interesting, I didn't know that was different
17:24:56 <eekee> 'the more the merrier' explains why i can't seem to do wrong by big towns
17:26:32 <Alkel_U3> "sure you can reshape the city center's hill into a crater so long as you keep those 100+ tram stops" :-)
17:27:17 <_dp_> Alkel_U3, and you don't even need those stops if you want to reshape it into a forest :p
17:27:45 <Alkel_U3> _dp_: forest is not usually the goal in TT :P
17:27:57 <eekee> Alkel_U3: ahahhaha yeah
17:28:16 <eekee> oh yeah coz planting trees helps
17:28:42 <_dp_> Alkel_U3, I'm starting to doubt that looking at authorities behavior in openttd
17:28:45 <Alkel_U3> I bet if people could they'd just put concrete slabs on every tile possible :D
17:29:24 <Alkel_U3> yeah, but that's only a tool to allow more destruction
17:34:31 <peter1138> TLS in Linux kernel 4.13. What could go wrong?
17:43:52 <eekee> already i've had linux and freebsd start acting up after visiting web pages with microsoft adverts -- not joking
17:44:19 <andythenorth> get some tinfoil :)
17:45:55 <andythenorth> it’s a nice trolling attempt :)
17:48:00 <eekee> you're the one who's trolling. i tried believing all this sort of talk was just paranoia, but there's just way too much evidence for all the major corporations in computing just being incredibly nasty by normal standards.
17:48:23 <andythenorth> ok let’s take the claim seriously
17:48:32 <andythenorth> 1. do you have Flash player enabled?
17:51:33 <eekee> on freebsd, no, but given the rotten quality of web standards and sloppy attitude toward security considerations ("progress" trumps security every time), whether or not flash is installed is hardly relevant any more
17:52:04 <andythenorth> do you work in the industry?
17:52:24 <eekee> associated with some who do, and who take quality seriously, for a long time
17:52:25 <andythenorth> coding something like the network stack, browsers, or web software?
17:54:41 <_dp_> andythenorth, are you trying to say there is no way to hack a browser or what? :p
17:55:08 <andythenorth> I’m trying to connect ‘microsoft adverts’ with ‘linux and freebsd start acting up’
17:55:18 <andythenorth> there are so many potential vectors
17:55:28 <andythenorth> but are many of them plausible?
17:55:43 <eekee> one of my friends is a kernel dev, another worked his way up through sysadmin jobs (including web shops) to administer some of the top supercomputers in the world,
17:56:00 <eekee> another works in telecom but 15-20 years ago he was the bad guy and he says he knew nothing at the time; just downloaded stuff and got into linux kernels everywhere lol
17:56:20 <eekee> sounds like he was an amateur but i didn't want to ask too much
17:56:57 <_dp_> andythenorth, well, techically it is possible to write an virus that infects via ads and does bad stuff to system
17:57:13 <_dp_> andythenorth, how plausible is it that's a different question
17:57:15 <andythenorth> well, usually malware, not virus
17:57:53 <andythenorth> if these microsoft ads included ‘download a binary and put in your sudo password'
17:57:58 <andythenorth> then I can believe it
17:59:44 <eekee> it was primarily the graphics of my linux & freebsd machines which was affected; it got very slow for no clear reason. doesn't the web now include pretty-much direct access to load shader programs?
18:00:33 <andythenorth> DoS your machine?
18:00:34 <eekee> microsoft's motive here would be just to make competing 'desktop' systems look bad
18:01:19 <_dp_> hm, and now my machine got slow too...
18:01:24 <andythenorth> Firefox will sit and spin my fans all day long
18:01:40 <andythenorth> just from being logged into Twitter in a single window
18:01:59 <eekee> i mean because they're stupid
18:02:04 <andythenorth> in fact, OpenTTD Coop devzone will drain my battery if I leave it in a tab
18:02:58 <eekee> they tried to push loads of stuff into the browser after slowing down their servers with loads of ruby nonsense
18:03:43 * andythenorth is glad to have a nice armchair
18:03:46 <andythenorth> for this expertise
18:04:00 <_dp_> didn't twitter go back to server-side rendering already?
18:04:16 <eekee> maybe, it did seem to get faster a few months ago
18:04:22 <_dp_> that's probably not how is it called but whatever :p
18:04:36 <eekee> maybe more than a few months, i got fed up with keeping up
18:04:38 <andythenorth> _dp_: I think their single-page app fell down in a pile of client performance problems
18:04:39 <_dp_> nah, it was more like few years ago
18:04:42 <andythenorth> but I’m only guessing
18:04:53 <andythenorth> they probably made a video or something
18:05:23 <_dp_> yeah I remember seeing a post about it
18:05:28 <eekee> i know they implemented avatars as web fonts. ?.?
18:07:10 <eekee> computing's one big stinking pile of underhandedness and "what could go wrong", as far as i'm concerned. openttd lol is about the sanest software i interact with any more
18:07:59 <eekee> i even went over to the dark side; got win10 put on my pc lol
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18:08:59 <eekee> oh there's plan 9 too, that's from another planet, but i don't use it much any more
18:09:25 * _dp_ rly hope openttd isn't the sanest software on my pc :p
18:13:11 <eekee> it's a game, and a free one at that, but i think it's had a lot more sense and understanding put into it than... certainly any free tablet game
18:13:22 <andythenorth> I’ve read the code
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18:17:03 <eekee> i'm still impressed by multiple viewports; it seems nobody even bothers implementing anything half as smart as that any more. also adjusting something in one window and seeing it change in others; that's like, come & gone.
18:17:45 <eekee> not that there's much call for these on small tablet screens
18:18:59 <_dp_> idk multiple viewports seem pretty useless to me
18:19:07 <_dp_> except mb for watching multiple companies
18:19:25 <_dp_> but that's not even in vanilla
18:21:03 <eekee> oh i mean the vehicle windows & everything. the other day i was placing signs in the newspaper popups; all the views just work the same!
18:23:06 <eekee> i was also using industry windows for oil rigs to add ships as needed while working on something else. kinda got a bit hectic though.
18:29:49 <Alberth> it also fails every now and then, getting newspapers about "First train arrives Foo station", and seeing a train driving on regular tracks
18:30:21 <Wolf01> <eekee> btw, can a grf add road types? i'm thinking of rough tracks suitable for tractors or, say, cattle droves, but not busses <- sorry for the delay: yes, a grf could add road types, but we must remove shiops and canals
18:31:00 <eekee> ohhhh! what's the link?
18:31:41 <Alberth> /me wonders what NoShips will bring
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18:56:38 <andythenorth> I’ve already made NoShips
19:12:10 <eekee> are there plans/hopes/dreams for new ship code?
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19:23:16 <Wolf01> eekee: yes, to remove ships
19:27:34 <Wolf01> It's refactoring, purge things which don't work
19:28:01 <eekee> what doesn't work about ships?
19:28:33 <eekee> i'm confused. XD i've successfully used ships in my last 5 games
19:29:42 <Wolf01> But they don't work, 10000000 ships on one tile, no collisions, shitty performance with pathfinding
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19:31:02 <Wolf01> Just ask andythenorth and he will tell you better why ships don't work
19:31:39 <eekee> no collisions is a bit sad, but so are 45deg bends :)
19:31:57 <eekee> i'll ask him about it sooner or later
19:33:46 <peter1138> it was andythenorth looking at ship path reservation, no?
19:33:55 <peter1138> can't remember now :S
19:34:14 <peter1138> he was barking up the wrong tree though ;D
19:34:40 <_dp_> careful, don't accidentally summon him :p
19:35:17 <Wolf01> The only bad part about it is that he wanted to continue straight on his own idea, even after discussing it here
19:36:31 <Wolf01> Like the wagon running cost based on length of the train and type of engine to try to fix the constant cost of the base game...
19:37:00 <Wolf01> And once you set up a train, you have another different constant
19:37:58 <Wolf01> Also pointless, as you can do it right now with a grf
19:39:34 <Wolf01> I would like to have an empty vanilla game and implement everything as newgrf: vehicles, infrastructures, algorythms
19:40:11 <peter1138> newgrf terrain generation?
19:40:25 <eekee> that could be very cool
19:40:26 <andythenorth> is it that much slower? :P
19:40:28 <Wolf01> If you are able to put terragenesis on a grf, why not?
19:40:37 <andythenorth> it’s just some tile loop bollocks, no?
19:40:41 <eekee> lunar terrain generator grf :D
19:40:48 <Wolf01> But you should be able to set different terragenesis rules with a grf
19:41:54 <Wolf01> As far as I've read the code, you can already define (they are hardcoded) the cut off for desert and arctic mountains
19:41:56 <eekee> now imagining a grf handling ship collisions XD
19:42:13 <Wolf01> Just move them to a grf, voilà: different desert, different mountains
19:42:14 <peter1138> when i last went through the tgp code i found the perlin method was a bit shitty
19:42:18 <peter1138> but i don't remember the details :(
19:42:45 <Wolf01> IIRC it made stripes around all the map and other artifacts
19:42:56 <andythenorth> it does some pointless stuff IIRC
19:43:15 <peter1138> it's non standard but IS much faster than regular perlin
19:43:23 <Wolf01> TGP terragenesis perlin noise
19:43:52 <peter1138> 4096x4096 takes minutes to generate with unoptimised perlin
19:44:32 <andythenorth> why is 4096x4096?
19:44:39 <eekee> is 1024x1024 more reasonable? that's the largest size at which i find save time reasonable anyway
19:44:40 <andythenorth> 2048x2048 would have been enough
19:44:48 <andythenorth> but we had to go to 11 eh
19:45:05 <Wolf01> BTW, I would like to give it a try, I don't think that grf is the right way, but some other scripting or even just yaml/json to set values could be the way
19:45:09 <eekee> there's some unexpected straightness & Vs in my current map, but it's non-terrible
19:45:47 <eekee> so long as i can download it from bananas, i don't care what format it's in ;)
19:46:01 <_dp_> gs can mapgen a bit, but not terragen afaik
19:46:14 <Wolf01> You can already download a lot of stuff from bananas
19:46:39 <Wolf01> Yeah, pointless to extend grf for something different than graphics
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19:49:53 <_dp_> hmmm, can gs write files? if so it could generate png with heightmap and start new game with it xD
19:50:50 <Wolf01> Nah, NotHardcodedSettings
19:51:02 <peter1138> changing the settings doesn't really add much
19:53:37 * peter1138 accidentally fires up minecraft instead
19:54:11 <Wolf01> For example, take tgp.cpp, the HeightMapSineTransform(height_t h_min, height_t h_max)
19:55:01 <Wolf01> There is the fheight variable which could be changed to have different effect on TGP
19:55:15 <peter1138> annoying problem with landscape generation is the lack of cliffs
19:55:42 <peter1138> big height differentials are always smoothed out
19:55:44 <eekee> haha! i haven't thought about that since '05, i think
19:59:16 <eekee> i can't imagine playing ottd without ships. i'm fine without canals, and i do at times replace ships with trains, but...
19:59:42 <Wolf01> A problem with big height differences is that terrain in the game is smooth, you can't have discontinuous points, a 64 levels tall mountain fills a 256^2 map
20:00:00 <peter1138> basically the same issue
20:00:33 <eekee> oh yes! i was just thinking about the mountain height issue as i started a game today, but didn't think of cliffs
20:01:43 <Wolf01> With more slopes (0.5x, 1x, 2x and even vertical ones) you could fix that problem, but then you wouldn't be able to see what you are building on the back of a mountain and you will need map rotation
20:02:11 <Wolf01> And I wouldn't speak for the changes needed to handle different levels
20:02:54 <eekee> what happened to that other game? "the game openttd devs wanted to make" or something
20:02:58 <_dp_> even current mountains are pain in the ass to build on, adding anything more steeper is basically locking off parts of the map
20:03:12 <Wolf01> Yeah, you can use transparency, cut the terrain over some height
20:03:23 <Wolf01> But then you can just go play locomotion
20:03:47 <_dp_> like, how are you even going to do bridges with 2 tile height difference on the ends?
20:04:03 <Wolf01> Fully flexible terrain, station on bridges, bridges over bridges, different curve radius
20:04:09 <eekee> i don't think bridges are relevant
20:04:39 <eekee> you can already put a bridge end on a slope with 2 tile height difference
20:05:03 <eekee> now i have to start the game again XD
20:05:11 <Wolf01> Ok, there's the double foundation, but only on certain tiles
20:06:55 <Wolf01> I've had a talk with eddi for a fully flexible layered layout which could allow building bridges like on locomotion and place signals and stations on them, that would be really cool... too bad is almost impossible to tell what are you building from a single pov
20:09:56 <_dp_> eekee, no, I meant difference of bridge ends, that's just 0 on your picture
20:10:11 <eekee> _dp_: right, yeah, i wouldn't expect that to change
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20:11:24 <Wolf01> Electric sparks make game crash on division by 0 when loading a savegame
20:12:17 <Wolf01> Seem that articulated parts lose the cached_max_track_speed value when reloading
20:14:27 <eekee> haha i just had a mad idea re. ships. (saying it now because i'll have to go for a bit soon.) how about making WETrails (as in NUTS) buildable on water?
20:14:58 <eekee> they could go on land & water
20:15:33 <V453000> plus points for considering NUTS
20:15:41 <eekee> mm... imo if you're going to remove ships, this should be mainline code
20:16:01 <V453000> nobody's going to remove shits
20:16:02 <Wolf01> I would hardcode a check to disable wetrails from NUTS, NRT is the way to go
20:16:03 <eekee> V453000: i use it all the time now :)
20:16:53 <V453000> I am so looking forward to my next grf
20:16:59 <V453000> but need to stabilize this shit first :D
20:17:24 <Wolf01> Wait for NRT, I think you can do countless things by abusing it
20:17:35 <V453000> NRT is just road vehicles, no?
20:17:53 <eekee> NRT + roads on water would be better in some ways
20:18:10 <V453000> well I can't compose a RV out of segments (engine + wagons)
20:18:17 <Wolf01> But you can do same shit as wetrails and pipes without the hassle of signals
20:18:30 <eekee> yeah lack of signals esp.
20:18:54 <Wolf01> Also, bidirectional on same tile
20:18:58 <eekee> otoh signals are sometimes great
20:19:14 <eekee> been using road tunnels -- <3 hovertrucks btw :)
20:19:50 <Wolf01> I'm waiting for NRT to make a Venice like city and use boats instead of buses
20:20:30 <V453000> signals are always great, they are the core of why trains are so awesome and timeless to play with
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20:51:57 <V453000> I'm starting to hate the amount of trees there is :D
20:53:31 <eekee> on the map or in the code?
20:55:11 <andythenorth> V453000: there are a lot of variants
20:57:15 <andythenorth> iz not much forums
20:57:27 <eekee> the original trees are amongst my favourite features of the game
20:57:32 <andythenorth> V453000: BRIX as base set is going to real mess with FIRS :)
20:57:38 <andythenorth> I reuse base set trees a lot
20:57:38 <V453000> well I wreck them eekee
20:57:51 <V453000> I know andy, very aware
20:58:05 <V453000> I will check out how it works with firs and I will re-order the IDs accordingly
20:58:16 <V453000> might even let you choose which ones you want where :P
20:58:28 *** minisylf is now known as Sylf
20:58:48 <V453000> need to finish thing first
21:00:01 * andythenorth needs to stop html-ing
21:04:55 <V453000> arctic and incomplete temperate
21:06:42 <peter1138> i like the tree with the red/white circle ;p
21:06:48 <eekee> i can imagine some of them dancing
21:07:17 <eekee> i like the one which looks like it's hugging its own branches
21:07:33 <V453000> all of them are hugtrees :)
21:07:52 <V453000> I used 3ds max before but now converted a few years back
21:08:23 <andythenorth> gobsmacking amount of trees
21:08:29 <V453000> when I realize it's been 2 and a half years since I have been using blender, I can't understand how is BRIX in max still ._.
21:08:42 <V453000> what you see isn't even half andy
21:09:27 <andythenorth> why is airports range?
21:10:53 <V453000> range is only in av8 right?
21:11:20 <andythenorth> I couldn’t find it
21:11:42 <andythenorth> tried a couple of versions of 8, and av9
21:11:51 <V453000> did you try parameters?
21:12:09 <andythenorth> probably got wrong grf
21:12:20 <V453000> I'm not sure if it's glaringly obvious at the first sight
21:12:23 <andythenorth> I have multiple versions
21:12:31 <V453000> I don't even remember if it was in the purchase menu
21:12:41 <andythenorth> it’s bollocks feature
21:12:45 <DorpsGek> andythenorth: out of chalk
21:14:29 <V453000> the progression point is true
21:14:43 <V453000> but visualising it is kind of hard and it just gets annoying
21:15:34 <V453000> just increasing passenger decay rate would probably fix early aircraft being viable for super long ranges
21:15:54 <V453000> also, it will inevitably be stupidly different on 256x512 to 1024x104 or more
21:17:40 <andythenorth> ok found range in AV8 2.x
21:17:41 <V453000> I wonder how much did Pikka manage to replace with his grf
21:17:46 <V453000> landscape rail water etc
21:17:48 <andythenorth> I can see Milsa’s point from FS
21:18:08 <andythenorth> but eh, make orders even more complex just to support one grf?
21:23:51 <andythenorth> V453000: pikka nearly got to $5k eh
21:24:01 <andythenorth> that’s more than I expected
21:24:06 <V453000> I don't remember the amount
21:24:29 <andythenorth> was looking how much he got done, to answer your Q above :P
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21:27:28 <V453000> I'm kind of really forcing myself with the trees atm
21:27:31 <V453000> can't give many hints :D
21:27:42 <andythenorth> newgrf trees spec?
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21:29:03 <andythenorth> maybe I play games
21:31:04 <Wolf01> I have a 2s ping, 0.4MBps/10Kbps connection today, I can't even open sites during a human lifetime
21:31:28 <V453000> Wolf01: doesn't that help productivity? :P
21:31:44 <Wolf01> Not if you need sites to produce
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21:32:42 <peter1138> i'm streaming to twitch at ~3.5mbps
21:33:16 <V453000> what do you stream, minecraft?
21:34:10 <Wolf01> Eh, tomorrow I could be able to read it
21:34:21 <frosch123> possibly intro and gui mockup is interesting
21:34:22 <andythenorth> Wolf01: I’ll print it and post it airmail
21:34:24 <frosch123> rest is boilerplate
21:34:38 <Wolf01> 40 seconds to load a text page
21:34:54 <Wolf01> frosch123: could we fix NRT meanwhile?
21:35:34 <frosch123> something new broke?
21:35:41 <andythenorth> frosch123: I’m skimming but…reminds me of ‘vehicles can drive on station tiles’ from eons ago
21:35:56 <andythenorth> mart3p had it proposed for ISR somewhere
21:35:57 <Wolf01> Read log since you joined today
21:36:42 <peter1138> V453000, any old shit
21:36:54 <frosch123> andythenorth: one of the av8 versions has a setting to enable/disable range
21:37:02 <andythenorth> I found one enabled
21:37:51 <V453000> is openttd old shit? :P
21:38:35 <Wolf01> frosch123: I tried to merge master in ratt branch and fix conflicts (just 3 conflicts easy to fix) and noticed that eltrams don't seem to work after loading a savegame made with the same version
21:39:18 <peter1138> i suspect it's too shit to work with game capture :p
21:40:26 <V453000> nice, made 3 trees today
21:41:31 <andythenorth> frosch123: consolidating to just one global toolbar button = winning
21:44:06 <Wolf01> I find difficult to read the catenary complementing section, but the rest make sense
21:44:17 <andythenorth> catenary boggles brain
21:45:47 <frosch123> not bridges boggle my brain
21:46:24 <andythenorth> bridges on bridges
21:46:30 <andythenorth> stations on bridges over stations
21:47:36 <frosch123> anyway, i suspect that the road construction toolbar fails to provide space for two dropdowns
21:47:39 <Wolf01> Will groundtypes allow overstructures like walking bridges over the road?
21:47:44 <frosch123> or names must be short :)
21:48:01 <frosch123> Wolf01: yes, via sidewalks stuff
21:48:03 <andythenorth> I can work on that a bit
21:48:26 <andythenorth> so BGT unpicks the combinatorial explosion by exposing controls for combining
21:48:29 <Wolf01> Make dropdowns inline with other buttons?
21:48:39 <frosch123> it should support most what the existing road furniture grfs do, but it restricts stuff to single-tile szie
21:48:50 <Wolf01> Open 2 toolbars like the terraforming tool?
21:48:58 <andythenorth> nobody can pick from 256 choices, but they can pick 1 out of 4, 1 out of 4 again etc
21:49:42 <Wolf01> <frosch123> it should support most what the existing road furniture grfs do, but it restricts stuff to single-tile szie <- Grf authors will find a way to abuse that
21:49:56 <Wolf01> But we aren't here to prevent abuses
21:50:15 <andythenorth> just remember, nothing stops you installing comic sans
21:50:17 <andythenorth> or even using it
21:50:31 <andythenorth> standing rule for all content systems
21:50:46 <Wolf01> $friend uses comic sans on phone, and every time he sends me a screenshots he makes my eyes bleed
21:52:25 <Wolf01> Ok, after Reading that
21:52:53 <Wolf01> Trash current NRT? Edit it?
21:52:58 <andythenorth> frosch123: wondering if this circumvents ever needing newgrf roadstops
21:53:25 <frosch123> newgrf roadstops would be multi-tile if over-arching roof and stuff
21:53:33 <Wolf01> What could be salvaged from NRT?
21:53:46 <andythenorth> multi-tile sounds a bit 2025 to me
21:53:48 <frosch123> Wolf01: it shares a lot with nrt
21:53:51 <andythenorth> unless peter1138 does them
21:54:09 <frosch123> like vehicle and pathfinder stuff
21:54:54 <andythenorth> does depot come from ground or road/tram type?
21:55:27 <andythenorth> makes more sense
21:55:29 <frosch123> but depot, stations, bridges are unclear
21:55:47 <Wolf01> Could we do them later?
21:55:49 <frosch123> groundtype affects the groundsprite in all cases
21:56:11 <andythenorth> so unified tram/RV depots?
21:56:16 <frosch123> for bridges and tunnls it makes sense to have different ground tiles on each end
21:56:19 <andythenorth> it’s just another tile?
21:56:23 <frosch123> but that leaves the bridge surface unefined
21:57:00 <andythenorth> ok UI bothers me
21:57:00 <frosch123> anyway, for a first version i would skip: depot, stations, bridges, tunnels, custom catenary
21:57:19 <frosch123> most important imho is to test the ui
21:57:35 <andythenorth> “in which andythenorth has to learn OpenTTD UI code” :|
21:57:51 * Wolf01 could do some working mockups
21:59:25 <frosch123> i wonder what the higher toolbar will cause :) but it would give a foundation to also make the transparency toolbar bigger :p
21:59:26 <andythenorth> does the ground selection clear after choosing one?
21:59:42 <frosch123> the selection window?
21:59:51 <frosch123> you can open and close it as you like
21:59:57 <frosch123> keep it open or nor
22:00:00 <andythenorth> looks like it risks same problem as station window on my screen :)
22:00:18 <frosch123> it does not need to be open for building and converting
22:00:32 <frosch123> but you can keep it open if you want to convert multiple tiles to different types
22:01:16 <frosch123> it's also listed for bgt
22:01:25 <frosch123> and i consider just implementing it for railtypes in trunk
22:02:18 <Wolf01> Could my "check compatibility" branch be useful?
22:02:37 <andythenorth> ok I read this all again to be sure I’ve understood
22:03:04 <frosch123> Wolf01: i do not see the relation with the forum thread
22:03:24 <frosch123> nrt talks about a simple two-sourceline va2 variable
22:03:50 <frosch123> there are some upgrade-rail inconsistencies, for which there is a fs task
22:03:58 <frosch123> no idea why that thread was dug up
22:10:54 <andythenorth> frosch123: so every road and tram type has catenary on/off variant?
22:11:04 <andythenorth> is that a 2 label system, or a bit or what?
22:11:18 <andythenorth> I don’t actually care about implementation, but helps me understand
22:12:28 <frosch123> every roadtype either has "same type with/without catenary" or "cannot coexist with tramtype of different catenary choice"
22:12:47 <frosch123> the two roadtypes are separate and link each other via their label
22:14:10 <frosch123> so either you have pairs like ROAD/ELRD, or you have "ELHAUL cannot coexist with RAIL, but only with ELRL"
22:15:36 * andythenorth trying to understand upgrade vs. convert
22:16:19 <frosch123> upgrading happens automatic
22:16:27 <frosch123> upgrading should not break stuff
22:16:40 <frosch123> convert is manual and can break stuff
22:16:41 <andythenorth> because it’s all compatible
22:16:54 <andythenorth> [upgrading all compatible]
22:17:21 <Wolf01> Yes sorry, I linked the whole topic and not the post
22:17:43 <andythenorth> so can I upgrade by overbuilding?
22:17:51 <andythenorth> and convert tool is for converting?
22:18:06 <frosch123> yes, imho overbuilding should upgrade
22:18:25 <frosch123> apparently this does not happen consistently for rail currently
22:20:38 <milek7_> hm, patch for more than 15 companies have any changes to be merged?
22:20:45 <milek7_> (maybe with extended tile array to avoid weird bitpacking)
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22:21:19 <andythenorth> BGT nml patch needed eh
22:21:51 <frosch123> milek7_: in theory yes, but on my list not before 2027
22:22:45 <frosch123> andythenorth: i think i addressed everything but "independent movement for road and tram"
22:23:01 <frosch123> which i consider the more meh the longer i think about it :)
22:23:07 <andythenorth> I couldn’t care less about it
22:23:23 <V453000> damn playing openttd feels good
22:23:24 <andythenorth> suspension railway is total PITA
22:23:34 <andythenorth> I tried it, it clips tunnels, bridges, rail catenary
22:31:55 <andythenorth> basically, a bit boring
22:32:22 <frosch123> noone said the BGT will turn out good, but imho NRT has some big problems
22:32:44 <andythenorth> isn’t the main problem that it’s a bit dull?
22:32:47 <andythenorth> and catenary is a mess
22:33:01 <frosch123> i like the supermob stuff
22:33:23 <andythenorth> FWIW supermop said we should ignore the Docklands grf
22:33:36 <andythenorth> and that all the cobble types etc will use speed limits
22:33:57 <frosch123> sure, but noone dealt with tram types
22:34:07 <Wolf01> We should listen also to supermod (<- just to rotate that p around some more)
22:34:22 <andythenorth> nah supermoq showed the way
22:34:30 <ic111> Question / request for brainstorming: Which values does the window engine take into account when determining the minimum allowed size of a window, i.e. the size I cannot go below during a resize?
22:35:02 <Wolf01> Then you say he will agree to whatever we will come up to?
22:35:13 <ic111> I removed all calls that set width in UpdateWidgetSize --> I could make my timetable window about 15 % smaller, which is not very much
22:35:45 <ic111> I set all SetMinimalSize calls in the window desc to quite low x values ---> Changed nothing
22:36:07 <ic111> What else does it take into account?
22:36:48 <andythenorth> FLAG_NO_LEVEL_CROSSING: moved to groundtype ? o_O
22:37:09 <frosch123> ic111: widget.cpp contains defaults for all widgets
22:37:22 <ic111> does default mean minimum size?
22:37:58 <frosch123> all widgets have minimum size and fill/resize behaviour
22:38:06 <frosch123> "default" size only exists in window context
22:38:44 <ic111> And do the SetMinimalSize occurrences in the window desc override them? I would assume yes, but...?
22:39:15 <frosch123> i think the order is 1. widget.cpp default, 2. setminimalsize in tree 3. updatewidegetsize
22:39:31 <andythenorth> frosch123: I guess dropdowns with names for road / tram because you need to see currently selected?
22:40:07 * andythenorth thinking out loud
22:40:08 <frosch123> andythenorth: you need to see the selected one, and the assumption is there are only a hand full of them, and they have names instead of previews
22:40:25 <frosch123> while the groundtype selection opens a big window with previews
22:40:38 <andythenorth> I wondered about a menu instead for road/tram selection
22:40:55 <ic111> Ok, so probably if the window engine calculates an unwanted big minimum size, I want to add additional SetMinimalSize calls to the tree, is this the strategy one uses in that situation?
22:41:28 <frosch123> well, did you figure out which widget causes the big size?
22:41:41 <frosch123> or are you trying to minimise the borders?
22:41:53 <frosch123> ic111: also, there is not just minimalsize, but also padding
22:42:38 <ic111> No, so far I didn´t figure it out.
22:43:01 <frosch123> andythenorth: since you need to select both groundtype and road/tramtype, i settled for listing the last n used in the menu, instead of all 2048
22:43:18 <ic111> By throwing away calls in UpdateWidgetSize, I now have a window that ends about at the right end of the canal icon in the top line
22:43:37 <ic111> I decreased all explicit SetMinimalSize calls to quite low values
22:44:03 <frosch123> well, isn't the white text the important part?
22:44:05 <ic111> ... but maybe there is some widget I don´t explicitely assign a MinimalSize, probably I just have to do a closer look...
22:44:09 <andythenorth> does type dropdown need to list all speed limit, axle weight crap?
22:44:25 <frosch123> andythenorth: speed limit is part of groundtype :p
22:44:52 <andythenorth> wondering if we can just have a picture, not word
22:44:58 <ic111> NoNo, the white text clearly isn´t the problem
22:45:02 <andythenorth> make toolbar even deeper, use tile for ground types
22:45:11 <frosch123> axle weight would still be in the dropdown, but did anyone use that? or did only eddi talk bout it?
22:45:31 <andythenorth> and then a menu for selecting road / tram, which draws them over selected ground type
22:45:31 <ic111> (1) because I am not aware that I still consider it, (2) Because in the running OpenTTD instance I just use for testing, it is much smaller
22:46:03 <ic111> ... ok, so I´ll do some more code inspection now, thank you for now...
22:46:33 <frosch123> ic111: maybe you also have some EQUALSIZE containers?
22:47:52 <frosch123> or widgetselections?
22:48:19 * andythenorth makes ugly mockup
22:48:38 <frosch123> andythenorth: i wonder whether there is any visual difference in roadtypes :p
22:48:40 <andythenorth> can we limit displayed chars in dropdown?
22:48:55 <frosch123> it should truncate with "..."
22:48:56 <andythenorth> frosch123: enterprising people will do different lines etc
22:49:13 <andythenorth> wondering about vertical stacked dropdowns
22:49:23 <andythenorth> and some kind of preview of the resulting tile
22:49:48 <frosch123> for preview imho just open the ground selection window
22:50:03 <andythenorth> I was trying to use a preview to save space
22:50:07 <frosch123> but toolbar on its own should be minimal, i though you would be interested in that :p
22:50:12 <andythenorth> don’t have to read words
22:50:22 <andythenorth> well, words are great
22:50:28 <andythenorth> but not in the game
22:50:51 <frosch123> skip the cats though
22:50:51 <andythenorth> I think we can make some neat little palette
22:51:01 <andythenorth> just haven’t figured it out yet
22:54:04 <Wolf01> frosch123, andythenorth: speed limits? I would like same roadtype with different speed limit, move to BGT? (I always found stupid the proliferation of same rail track just to set a speed limit)
22:54:43 <andythenorth> how about routing restrictions per BGT? :P
22:54:51 <andythenorth> no trains > 5 tiles
22:54:54 <frosch123> the point is that groundtypes define the surroundings, like protection walls etc. also speedlimit is shared by road and tram
22:55:15 <frosch123> no goods for town growth :)
22:55:16 <Wolf01> andythenorth: weren't you the one who suggested it?
22:55:39 <frosch123> new disaster: town blocks good delivery due to diesel restrictions
22:56:05 <V453000> made 4 trees, removed 1
22:56:10 <V453000> total progress of day = 3
22:56:12 <andythenorth> not in love with it, but different
22:56:23 <Wolf01> Mmmh I think no netflix this evening
22:57:07 <andythenorth> frosch123: everything is wrong in that mockup, except trying to get size
22:57:56 <frosch123> andythenorth: i would like an easy toggle between road and tram
22:58:07 <Wolf01> With that size you need to double the width of the dropdowns too
22:58:49 <andythenorth> frosch123: do both road and tram need to show at same time?
22:59:04 <Wolf01> 2 options: bigger toolbar; child toolbar
22:59:09 <andythenorth> dunno I have more success making UIs in html than talking them out :)
22:59:09 <frosch123> but two radio buttons looked easier than a toggle button
22:59:23 <andythenorth> maybe we need to prototype it in game, not photoshop
22:59:36 <andythenorth> concept is started at least
22:59:40 <_dp_> hmm... apparently some new players have troubles finding mono/maglev so they can't bulid trains after 2000-smth
23:00:10 <andythenorth> it’s never obvious that global toolbar is also menu
23:00:12 <andythenorth> if that’s the cause
23:00:23 <_dp_> andythenorth, it likely is
23:00:54 <frosch123> well, i don't think mono/magl is their biggest problem then
23:01:01 <Wolf01> Show main toolbar buttons with dropdown like actual dropdowns
23:01:12 <andythenorth> who made all the crazy tile grfs?
23:01:29 <andythenorth> we need someone to make BGT test cases
23:01:37 <andythenorth> ‘tile with parked car'
23:01:41 <andythenorth> ‘tile with phone box'
23:01:50 <andythenorth> ‘tile with cat fighting doc'
23:02:06 <andythenorth> ‘tile with seagull eating chicken'
23:02:10 <Wolf01> Just put stuff we already have for the moment
23:02:41 <Wolf01> And yes, I'm a bit worried about the UI
23:04:15 <andythenorth> just don’t make it like the station or object UIs :P
23:04:29 <andythenorth> the object UI missed a memo about padding
23:05:56 * andythenorth could probably fix that, instead of bitching
23:06:30 <andythenorth> frosch123: BGT airport tiles? o_O
23:07:10 <andythenorth> I was trolling, but it might work
23:07:26 <andythenorth> choose ground, add taxiway, runway, or airgate
23:07:33 <frosch123> canals are already stetching it
23:07:49 <andythenorth> it does canals too? :o
23:07:59 <frosch123> i wrote it somewhere
23:08:29 <frosch123> if it works for road, it's definitely also suitable for railtypes (and would solve the compatibility thingie)
23:08:37 <frosch123> but canals is a bit far fetched
23:08:46 <andythenorth> can’t think of a use for it
23:08:53 <andythenorth> except unifying river and canal
23:08:59 <andythenorth> then being able to build river
23:11:44 *** andythenorth has left #openttd
23:20:12 *** y2000rtc has joined #openttd
23:35:47 *** nekomaster has joined #openttd
23:36:27 <nekomaster> So I keep starting over with my Belgian Train Set and everytime I start trying to modify the code everything stops working. Stuff just doesnt appear in game even though their PNML files are included
23:37:19 <nekomaster> I dont know what I'm doing thats causing my problems and I'm ready to just give up as I've spent 4 days just trying to get set up and nothing works
23:59:47 *** Eddi|zuHause2 is now known as Eddi|zuHause
23:59:59 <Eddi|zuHause> nekomaster: too little detail
continue to next day ⏵
