IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2017-08-31
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00:43:32 <Wolf01> $friend says that running openttd.exe -n ip, it freeze at newgrf scanning
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07:34:55 <gentz> It says my username/password combo is unknown
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08:02:04 <risajef> My opensfx does not work
08:02:40 <risajef> I't just doesn't play the sounds
08:02:47 <risajef> Music works, but not sounds
08:03:08 <risajef> I installed it via the ingame downloader, and afterwards manually, both does not work
08:03:17 <gentz> Can you try running "openttd -v"
08:03:29 <gentz> See if you have a sdl sound driver
08:04:15 <risajef> List of sounds sets: OpenSFX
08:04:28 <risajef> List of sound drivers: sdl: SDL Sound Driver
08:05:09 <gentz> try running "openttd -v sdl"
08:06:53 <risajef> Still no sound. Still music.
08:07:21 <gentz> This is a stupid question but have you checked you selected OpenSFX
08:07:32 <gentz> under Game Options -> base sound set
08:07:40 <risajef> Yes I have. Not a stupid question. :D
08:08:01 <andythenorth> check your music volume slider in-game
08:08:35 <andythenorth> doesn’t sound like it, but worth mentioning
08:12:52 <risajef> It does not work. Another thing I just realized I can't controll the volume by the musicbox. It is always the same volume. But I can start and stop the music.
08:13:22 <gentz> Can ya try running "openttd -d driver=9 -d misc=9"
08:13:45 <gentz> check if its finding the opensfx files
08:14:16 <gentz> and that its probing the sound driver
08:14:17 <risajef> dbg: [misc] Found dir in tar: opensfx-0.2.3/ dbg: [misc] Found file in tar: opensfx-0.2.3/opensfx.obs (9356 bytes, 1024 offset) dbg: [misc] Found file in tar: opensfx-0.2.3/opensfx.cat (13128144 bytes, 11264 offset)
08:14:54 <gentz> also that its loading the sound effects
08:18:48 <risajef> What should there be? I only find: dbg: [misc] Loading sound effects... three times
08:19:11 <risajef> But never something like: Succsessfully loaded sound effects
08:19:52 <gentz> I have no clue what else to do
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08:20:12 <gentz> your gonna have to find someone more knowledgeable
08:20:40 <risajef> Nevermind. Thanks a lot for your time. I make a post on the forum.
08:41:12 <risajef> Another ingame question: How can I increas the percentage of transported things? Is there a wiki page about that? I can't find it. I have on some factories only 30% and the train is never full. Do I need more trainstations?
08:45:49 <risajef> An ingame question: How can I increas the percentage of transported things? Is there a wiki page about that? I can't find it. I have on some factories only 30% and the train is never full. Do I need more trainstations?
08:47:22 <DorpsGek> Commit by adf88 :: r27904 trunk/src/vehicle.cpp (2017-08-31 08:47:17 +0200 )
08:47:23 <DorpsGek> -Fix [FS#6593]: When last vehicle is removed from shared orders group, hide the "Stop sharing" button in vehile orders window
08:48:58 <DorpsGek> Commit by adf88 :: r27905 /trunk/src (smallmap_gui.cpp smallmap_gui.h) (2017-08-31 08:48:55 +0200 )
08:48:59 <DorpsGek> -Fix [FS#6585]: Keep the "link" between industry chain and smallmap windows whenever possible
08:51:01 <andythenorth> ho, such commits adf88 :)
08:51:04 <DorpsGek> Commit by adf88 :: r27906 trunk/src/pathfinder/npf/npf.cpp (2017-08-31 08:51:01 +0200 )
08:51:05 <DorpsGek> -Cleanup: Remove some NPF code with no effect and mark possible bug about never used NPF_FLAG_IGNORE_RESERVED flag
08:51:08 <andythenorth> going to get to double figures soon?
08:54:24 <DorpsGek> Commit by adf88 :: r27907 trunk/src/newgrf.cpp (2017-08-31 08:54:22 +0200 )
08:54:25 <DorpsGek> -Fix: AirportSpec::rotation was memleaking
08:55:41 <DorpsGek> Commit by adf88 :: r27908 /trunk/src (4 files in 2 dirs) (2017-08-31 08:55:38 +0200 )
08:55:42 <DorpsGek> -Codechange: Mark airport tile tables and FTAs "const" to be sure that they are really constant
08:57:07 <Eddi|zuHause> risajef: to increase transported % you need to increase your station rating, usually by making sure there is always a train waiting (e.g. with "full load")
08:57:56 <andythenorth> adf88: want me to close the relevant FS tasks? o_O
08:59:05 <andythenorth> great :) 390 FS left now
08:59:14 <Eddi|zuHause> adf88: andy is now our resident fstaskcloser :p
08:59:28 <adf88> all seems OK, i must leave now so
08:59:30 <Eddi|zuHause> he has found his calling :p
08:59:40 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: it’s worryingly close to my day job
08:59:57 <andythenorth> in the absence of employing enough developers, I try to get software built by moving tickets around
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10:01:24 <andythenorth> “we don’t prevent griefers"
10:01:40 <andythenorth> but you seemed to be interested in fixing it so eh, asking first
10:24:05 <gentz> Um so I can't log into flyspray
10:24:15 <gentz> I made an account 3 hours ago or so
10:24:25 <gentz> I can log into the wiki and translator tho
10:24:32 <gentz> Does anyone know whats up?
10:25:07 <V453000> BRIX kind of sleeping for the last 2 days, on Tue I got shitfaced and on Wed I was trying to survive :D
10:25:27 <V453000> and today I will probably work until dead so no brixorz eithar
10:25:40 <V453000> hopefully moar on weekend =D
10:26:34 <andythenorth> I can’t help, but ask again later, or post in forums :P
10:28:58 <peter1138> high cpu usage is not "griefing"
10:32:04 <V453000> depends how many thousand trains you have :P
10:32:30 <blocage> peter1138, hich cpu usage to compute the Answer to the Ultimate Question of Life, The Universe, and Everything is not a bug
10:33:15 <blocage> so it's depend what is the root of the CPU usage
10:33:41 <andythenorth> ship pathfinding is inefficient
10:34:18 <peter1138> i fixed the immediate issue on that task
10:34:24 <peter1138> there are further issues of course
10:34:30 <andythenorth> $someone should commit it
10:34:34 <andythenorth> shall I test it?
10:34:54 <andythenorth> oh I’d have to set up servers and crap
10:36:03 <gentz> Umm, so I made a new acount with an old email
10:36:12 <andythenorth> oh it DOSes my single player client on ffwd
10:36:18 * andythenorth will test the patch
10:36:27 <gentz> so can I like change the email on the account?
10:37:13 <blocage> there is off-screen rendering mechanism in ottd ?
10:40:03 <blocage> looking at how list of vehicul are rendered I would say no, but maybe I missed something
10:44:18 <andythenorth> I used to know about video formats
10:44:34 <andythenorth> now I enjoy clicking the ‘export with magic’ button and not knowing :P
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10:48:10 <andythenorth> ugh 87 unconfirmed bugs :P
10:51:59 <gentz> Can someone test this out
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11:03:44 <blocage> peter1138, you mean yes there is a off-screen rendering ?
11:18:39 <peter1138> it's all drawn off screen and then the updated areas are copied to the screen
11:19:10 <peter1138> it's very much old-school style
11:21:53 <LordAro> and technically not supported by sdl2
11:22:26 <Wolf01> andythenorth: but I like FS#6114 :(
11:22:31 <peter1138> it doesn't work well with modern compositing engines either
11:22:37 <peter1138> (linux nor windows)
11:24:15 <peter1138> problem with 6114 is payments
11:25:48 <Wolf01> Problem with everything is that cargo does not carry a destination
11:26:43 <Wolf01> And all that "transfer" is bullshit, virtual payments etc
11:27:54 <andythenorth> 6114 has a patch :P
11:27:58 <andythenorth> should be applied and closed
11:29:18 <Wolf01> Last time I was about to suggest you to make FIRS dock industries to use that behaviour
11:31:13 <blocage> peter1138, oups, I ask to know if I can create an offscreen buffer where I can draw, then blit to the screen buffer
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11:39:25 <Wolf01> IMO, OTTD should work in two modes: point-to-point orders (remove transfer and unload/leave empty which makes no sense at all), cdist (which could be improved more) if you want a complex network
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11:52:21 <V453000> remove transfer and unload/leave empty which makes no sense at all <- ?
11:53:20 <Wolf01> What do you use unload for? Make your route only lose profits?
11:54:09 <V453000> whenever you want to force the train to unload if there is no industry which accepts it?
11:54:23 <V453000> it might not be the "most typical basic network" case but it definitely has many uses
11:54:54 <V453000> we use it even for standard unload stations, you want to make sure the train is unloading even if the industry died
11:55:34 <V453000> or if it stopped accepting shit due to newgrf rules etc
11:55:47 <Wolf01> Ehm, if you "unload" the cargo stays at the station even if the cargo is accepted
11:56:19 <V453000> but unload and leave empty makes sure the train doesn't try to pick it up?
11:56:40 <V453000> I don't see your problem with it, it clearly has uses
11:56:40 <Wolf01> Forum is full of newcomers which "I don't get paid when unloading the cargo at stations which accept it"
11:56:56 <V453000> are they transferring it or what
11:57:25 <Wolf01> No, just set up a point-to-point with load here, unload there
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11:58:42 <V453000> what's the issue, how do they reach that case?
11:58:48 <V453000> if the station accepts it how do they not get paid?
11:59:18 <Wolf01> When you force unload the cargo is moved to the station even if accepted, and you don't get paid
12:00:21 <Wolf01> Sorry, maybe I used the wrong string, I don't ever use it because I find it annoyingly useless
12:00:40 <V453000> if you transfer to the station you don't get paid
12:00:45 <V453000> if you unload it works perfectly fine
12:00:55 <Wolf01> Then the behaviour changed
12:01:17 <V453000> or at least not since like 0.7 or something when I started playing
12:01:59 <V453000> if you transfer, the train which delivered it will get a share on the profit once the final train delivers it ... assuming that it was transferring it to the correct direction I think
12:02:30 <V453000> so if you want to have all of your trains turn profit every year, you just use this and as long as they are "being beneficial", they will do fine
12:03:14 <Wolf01> I think it changed when the order options got split
12:03:35 <Wolf01> I'm not talking about transfer, forget transfer
12:04:26 <Wolf01> Transfer is its own bullsht too
12:11:40 <V453000> unload order always gets paid if the station accepts the cargo afaik
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12:18:51 <Wolf01> I think I last used "unload and leave empty" was on 0.4.3
12:19:20 <planetmaker> that's *a bit* ago ;)
12:19:21 <V453000> does not mean nobody else does
12:19:46 <Wolf01> Eh, never noticed it was "fixed"
12:20:18 <Wolf01> I usually forget about the second dropdown in orders
12:57:43 <_dp_> direct routes are slightly more profitable but transfer/hub ones are much faster to build
12:57:56 <_dp_> also can't do direct on both sides of 2-way route
13:03:10 <_dp_> and I've never heard of unload not pushing cargo to industry, those newcomers are either transfering or station is not accepting
13:03:49 <_dp_> or some other wierd stuff like trains picking cargo on unload station from other industry
13:04:04 <_dp_> I always have unload orders on leave empty to avoid that
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13:46:53 <Wolf01> I only use unload if accepted, that solves all the problems, if trains come back with cargo, then I assigned the wrong station or the industry closed
13:49:49 <andythenorth> but I wish ‘no loading’ was easier to add :P
13:49:54 <andythenorth> otherwise cdist is borked
13:53:08 <andythenorth> nah you have to make it explicit
13:53:32 <Wolf01> Unload if accepted is the default
13:54:18 * andythenorth thought you meant ‘no loading'
13:55:02 <Wolf01> No loading is on the other dropdown
13:55:23 <Wolf01> I use that a lot, but the "unload" dropdown is dead to me
13:59:22 <Alkel_U3> I can imagine using it as sort of "if accepted: unload else: transfer" with industries that do this and have some vehicles to transport that unaccepted extra cargo elswhere
14:00:21 <Wolf01> Which I only use for pax, cargo is point-to-point
14:01:20 <Alkel_U3> cd actually works correctly on destinations with variable accepted cargos? :-)
14:03:34 <Wolf01> I'm going to start a new ottd game, all other games I tried to play made me ragequit because of stupid errors I made
14:04:09 <andythenorth> I have to quit ottd games to fix newgrf things
14:04:12 <andythenorth> then I break my save
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14:20:59 <Alkel_U3> Wolf01: have you tried Rimworld
14:22:23 <Alkel_U3> I hear it's like Dwarf Fortress but darker
14:22:32 <Alkel_U3> also with actual graphics
14:23:01 <Wolf01> It costs more than €free
14:23:23 <Alkel_U3> which is the only reason I haven't played it yet :-)
14:23:33 <Wolf01> Also more than €0.35 which I have in the steam wallet
14:25:03 <andythenorth> V453000: I have bought loads of retro-synth albums
14:25:08 <Wolf01> I just tried endless sky, which seem to be a game I should like... you need to purchase the fuel to make hyperspace jumps, you have no money, you have not enough fuel to reach the next mission objective...
14:25:09 <andythenorth> getting me through a website rebuild :P
14:27:50 <Alkel_U3> I tried that game recently, seems fun
14:29:26 <V453000> andythenorth: will you resell them? :P
14:32:26 <andythenorth> such uplifting chords very
14:35:07 <andythenorth> peter1138: isn’t oil-rig sharing a feature? o_O
14:35:54 <peter1138> if it's a feature, then it's not a known-bug, surely
14:36:06 <andythenorth> can’t argue with that
14:37:57 <andythenorth> oh we have a ‘problems’ forum?
14:38:02 <andythenorth> are there > 9000?
14:42:27 <andythenorth> loads of things to reply to in problems forum eh? :)
14:53:07 <andythenorth> bored of that now :P
14:53:30 <Wolf01> Mmmh, refit to available cargo needs a kickstart or the station won't get any cargo
14:54:18 <andythenorth> you have to refit first vehicle
14:54:26 * andythenorth can’t think of a solution to that
14:54:36 <andythenorth> cycling all the refits might be…unwanted?
14:54:56 <andythenorth> ‘refit available cargo’ is mostly a bad feature
14:55:04 <andythenorth> it really should be removed IMHO
14:55:43 <andythenorth> iirc I was one of the ones who asked for it, it got added around YACD time, and made sense with YACD
14:56:14 <Wolf01> Other solution will be "station starts getting cargo when placed" like the old TTDX
14:57:33 <andythenorth> that’s….irritating
14:57:41 <andythenorth> it causes a lot of failed ratings, no?
14:57:58 <andythenorth> fine on a 64x64 map, otherwise…shit
15:10:49 <Wolf01> I enabled cdist for cargo too on this game, and with that autorefit thing I set up a really nice service
15:13:57 <Wolf01> Meh, nearest oil field on the other side of the 2048 map
15:17:12 <_dp_> andythenorth, in citymania client you can assign modifier keys for orders including "no loading". So it like just ctrl+click when you add order.
15:17:51 <_dp_> there probably is patch for it somewhere in FS even, or on forums
15:18:20 <_dp_> it's a bit too magical for trunk though probably
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15:53:01 <V453000> hmm how do I install PIL / Pillow on windows please? :d google doesn't seem to help much
15:54:27 <ST2> 1st you need a bed - blankets not mandatory - choose 1 side and throw (just messing around, because I have no idea :)
15:55:53 <V453000> was super easy because I installed python properly this time
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16:08:43 <andythenorth> how about a dice-roll FS bot?
16:08:49 <andythenorth> once a day, it closes a task
16:08:58 <andythenorth> some tasks are just not fated to happen
16:17:14 <andythenorth> Wolf01: you could write a crash-log parser?
16:17:19 <andythenorth> maybe in PHP even?
16:17:39 <Wolf01> Eh, I could with the specs
16:18:48 <andythenorth> feed it crashlogs, extract metadata from the key/value pairs
16:18:59 <andythenorth> incremement counts, and store refs to each crashlog
16:19:30 <andythenorth> Version, NewGRF ver, Bits, etc
16:19:43 <andythenorth> Blitter: etc from Configuration
16:20:16 <andythenorth> store them in a simple DB, then have html to filter / cross reference
16:20:20 <andythenorth> maybe a way to chart them
16:21:21 <andythenorth> eh, seems Apple, MS, etc have their own
16:22:29 <andythenorth> we could scrape crash logs from FS
16:22:47 <Wolf01> It would be nice if FS allowed plugins
16:23:00 <crem> Why not google spreadsheets + lots of scripts!
16:24:23 <andythenorth> crem: where to start with ‘why not that’ :P
16:24:34 <andythenorth> I could make you a google sheet of reasons :)
16:25:41 <crem> Where do those crash report come from? Is there some automated process to send them?
16:26:12 <Wolf01> That would be filled with andy's crash logs
16:26:47 <andythenorth> they’re user-submitted manually
16:27:01 <andythenorth> Wolf01: if they were automated, mine would not be sent
16:27:13 <andythenorth> the ‘changed newgrfs’ flag would prevent it
16:29:48 <Wolf01> BTW, which DB or noDB do you like?
16:30:36 <crem> depends, but for RDBMS it's postgres nowadays.
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16:39:21 <andythenorth> Wolf01: postgres or…sqlite?
16:39:48 <Wolf01> Postgres is ok for me, I have to install all the others
16:48:07 <Wolf01> Ok, I could focus on the parser, I'm too much tempted to do the DB part with Doctrine
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17:28:04 <frosch123> Wolf01: another canal mail
17:29:59 <Wolf01> Lol, I was so used with frameworks that I forgot how to do basic stuff
17:40:37 <frosch123> either i forgot how to build ai/gs documentation, or it is broken
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18:05:34 <frosch123> looks like debian defaults to mawk instead of gawk
18:07:19 <DorpsGek> andythenorth: 32.3333333333
18:07:31 <DorpsGek> andythenorth: 12.9333333333
18:07:43 <DorpsGek> andythenorth: 3.46666666667
18:08:28 <andythenorth> 19 months to zero FS, if we close 1 per day :P
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18:36:53 <andythenorth> need a bigger hammer
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19:00:18 <V453000> my ass is full of regex
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19:10:04 <Wolf01> Mmmh, I don't know if I want to take regex from the ass of somebody :P
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19:22:55 <Wolf01> andythenorth: did you see the official announce of the "new" lego set which costs a kidney and an eye?
19:23:06 <andythenorth> is it Star Wars?
19:23:38 <andythenorth> so not interested :)
19:23:43 <andythenorth> I like star wars but eh
19:24:26 <andythenorth> so let’s close some FS
19:24:53 <andythenorth> 18 tickets ‘with patch'
19:25:07 <andythenorth> it’s nice having ‘patch’ ticket type and ‘with patch’
19:25:23 <andythenorth> all bug trackers suffer from taxonomy diffusion :)
19:25:49 <Wolf01> Patch is useless, patch for what, fix, feature?
19:26:04 <frosch123> someone said "refactoring"
19:26:11 <frosch123> but that has become pretty rare
19:26:29 <Wolf01> Rename it to "codechange"
19:26:31 <andythenorth> there are 64 ‘patch'
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19:40:29 <LordAro> is it me, or are there no other languages other than /en ?
19:41:33 <LordAro> afaict, only 3 strings are translatable anyway
19:41:49 <LordAro> ("Download OpenTTD", "Learn how to play", "Visit our community")
19:43:09 <andythenorth> and likely to cause bug reports in future
19:43:12 <LordAro> andythenorth: 6534 seems fine as a newgrf feature request, imo
19:43:40 <andythenorth> maybe it needs retitled
19:43:50 <LordAro> andythenorth: yeah, reject 6478
19:43:52 <andythenorth> ‘Airports: add ‘airport is closed’ var
19:44:09 <LordAro> andythenorth: i can't see it ever being added to the base set
19:44:19 <LordAro> but i can see ogfx+airports doing it
19:45:43 <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r27909 trunk/src/lang/spanish_MX.txt (2017-08-31 19:45:38 +0200 )
19:45:45 <DorpsGek> spanish (mexican): 4 changes by Absay
19:49:54 <planetmaker> I commented, andythenorth ;)
19:51:51 <andythenorth> aren’t there other ways to accomplish that?
19:53:50 <adf88> BTPro servers do something like this
19:54:20 <adf88> but making company bancrupt
19:54:32 <adf88> not sure how they do this
19:55:28 <andythenorth> I’ve only played on servers that autopause when everyone goes to spectator
19:55:31 <andythenorth> so problem seems to be solved
19:55:37 <andythenorth> planetmaker: ^ how does coop do it?
19:57:15 <Eddi|zuHause> wrt closed airports: maybe the plane symbol in the station sign could reflect that? (mind you, i've never used this feature)
19:57:32 <andythenorth> it’s a good feature
19:57:42 <andythenorth> one of those minor additions that adds a lot
19:57:53 <andythenorth> but the airport display should just be solved in newgrf
19:58:00 <andythenorth> be a good patch for LordAro eh? o_O
19:58:07 <andythenorth> oh, but I’d have to make a test grf for it :(
19:58:16 * andythenorth goes off that idea
19:58:27 <DorpsGek> andythenorth: out of chalk
19:59:38 <planetmaker> andythenorth, coop pauses server when there's less than two clients.
20:00:01 <planetmaker> thus if there's only spectators, nothing moves
20:00:59 <andythenorth> is that a game setting?
20:01:00 <planetmaker> andythenorth, but there's no mechanism to move people out of the company automatically
20:01:09 <planetmaker> yes, autopause is a game setting
20:01:45 <planetmaker> what coop also does - and that's the soap (admin client) thing: move people w/o nickname set to spectator
20:01:48 <andythenorth> so where does that leave 6411?
20:01:54 <andythenorth> the game shouldn’t be growing more settings
20:02:09 <planetmaker> thus... can be closed, solvable via admin client in principle :)
20:02:24 <adf88> this "autoclean" mechanism
20:02:27 <planetmaker> you can monitor actions and move people to spectator, if they don't cause actions
20:02:42 <planetmaker> just I don't know any which supports that :)
20:02:52 <adf88> seems to be a good substitute
20:03:20 <planetmaker> autoclean cleans a company which is not played for some time
20:03:24 <adf88> but what actually "player activity" meany?
20:03:27 <planetmaker> longest is two years or so
20:03:42 <planetmaker> adf88: autoclean works on a company w/o a connected client
20:03:46 <adf88> so no player or no actions?
20:04:05 <planetmaker> 'no activity' is vague... and not well defined. an admin client can however monitor whether s/o does things.
20:04:31 <planetmaker> so... whether a player changes something, thus 'no activity' could to some degree be defined, I guess
20:04:37 <planetmaker> not sure I would want that, though :)
20:04:48 <planetmaker> in coop we just ask people to not idle when in the company :)
20:05:02 <Eddi|zuHause> "no activity" may be tricky to detect, as there are purely client-side activities (like scrolling) that cannot be detected by the server
20:05:12 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause, exactly
20:05:16 <adf88> as I mentioned before, BTPro servers do this
20:05:26 <planetmaker> I would have been kicked every time I play :)
20:05:35 <adf88> they probably have custom scripts hooked to the admin port
20:05:45 <planetmaker> they probably have a custom server :)
20:06:14 <planetmaker> but I think it can be done via admin client also on default servers
20:06:29 <adf88> as "executing commands"
20:06:37 <adf88> not executing commands - not active
20:06:47 <andythenorth> but he’s not here
20:07:33 <Eddi|zuHause> it's not that bad
20:08:18 <andythenorth> lots of things aren’t
20:08:30 <andythenorth> it would be an intereresting gameplay quirk for a few games
20:08:36 <andythenorth> then the novelty would wear off fast
20:08:45 <andythenorth> snail would add a newgrf setting to disable it
20:09:10 <Eddi|zuHause> it could use some more refinement, like stations that have refuelling equipment, but at those stations the stop takes longer.
20:09:11 <andythenorth> and meanwhile $someone has to spec it, write it, have a newgrf test case, update nml, and wiki
20:09:25 <Eddi|zuHause> but that quickly gets out of hand :p
20:09:32 <andythenorth> then we have to consider performance, and vehicles that might go so far they overflow the count
20:09:50 <andythenorth> and trains with 512 engines in, and every single vehicle is counting distance
20:10:08 <Eddi|zuHause> surely this is only calculated for the front engine
20:10:20 <andythenorth> dunno, write a spec, put it on the ticket? o_O
20:10:31 <andythenorth> I’ll happily leave it open if there’s interesrt
20:10:41 <andythenorth> otherwise it’s just kibble
20:11:16 <Eddi|zuHause> surely, this is like 10loc
20:12:15 <Eddi|zuHause> need to add member to train struct, code to increment in movement controller, code to reset in stations/depots and export to newgrf
20:12:59 <andythenorth> stations OR depots XOR stations XOR depots?
20:13:12 <andythenorth> can it be reset by waypoints?
20:13:22 <andythenorth> maybe if the waypoint has a special flag?
20:13:37 <andythenorth> the last one I am just being a jackass
20:13:37 <Eddi|zuHause> no, use station with "no loading and no unloading"
20:13:43 <andythenorth> the others were serious q.s
20:14:09 <Eddi|zuHause> your OR/XOR question is not well-defined
20:14:17 <andythenorth> my logic is poor
20:14:29 <andythenorth> your last commit looks around 2013 or so Eddi :)
20:14:37 <andythenorth> time to dust off the keyboard? o_O
20:14:59 <adf88> andythenorth: I'll be taking care of my FS tickets in near feature, you don't have to focus on them
20:15:12 <andythenorth> adf88: thanks, I’ll exclude them from my query
20:15:27 <andythenorth> it’s quite…crude
20:24:34 <andythenorth> I use 2x UI zoom on HDPI screen
20:24:41 <andythenorth> I don’t want to look at crappy bevels
20:24:48 <andythenorth> 1989 can have them back
20:26:02 <Alkel_U3> so, will there be rework openttd gui to Material Dsign? :-)
20:26:19 <andythenorth> that would be….work
20:26:38 <andythenorth> ok, I’ve been polite about a lot of FS requests
20:26:54 <andythenorth> (the first bullet, not the second)
20:27:04 <andythenorth> wtf is the point of buying a station?
20:32:37 <frosch123> infrasharing with fees
20:33:06 <frosch123> no idea whether the current version of infrasharing includes fees
20:33:29 <andythenorth> I’ve scrapped it
20:33:42 <andythenorth> linked it to infra sharing thread
20:33:57 <andythenorth> who uses timetables?
20:34:06 <andythenorth> I don’t except for station waiting
20:34:12 <andythenorth> ^ what is that asking for?
20:34:32 <andythenorth> in a timetable I see “Travel (not timetabled)"
20:41:33 <_dp_> something about timetables, who cares :p
20:47:08 <andythenorth> afaict, Rubidium has said 'no'
20:50:38 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: i think the request is valid
20:50:46 <Eddi|zuHause> i just don't see a way to implement it
20:51:43 <andythenorth> Not a Current Goal
20:52:09 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't think messing with the crossing/signal startup code is the right approach
20:52:34 <Eddi|zuHause> maybe it needs a new "leave depot after <time> feature
20:52:35 <_dp_> oh, so exiting depot is a signal code?
20:52:58 <_dp_> now I get why it's so hard to fix
20:53:40 <andythenorth> maybe we need to get more comfortable about saying no to excess complexity :)
20:53:50 <Eddi|zuHause> _dp_: it's the same code at work. the movement code loops through all vehicles, and whoever is the first to move wins
20:54:17 <Rubidium> it's dead easy to fix... just sort all vehicles by their lateness every cycle
20:54:30 <andythenorth> Rubidium arrived :)
20:56:06 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: but do fresh vehicles with a new startdate even have a lateness?
20:56:41 <Rubidium> I guess it's not that hard to add such a thing (negative lateness)
20:56:56 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: i think the lateness is set on arrival at the first station
21:05:59 <_dp_> there is probably some way to do it with unix magic too :)
21:07:29 <_dp_> that bug makes sense though, why don't it just print timestamp instead of requiring stupid workarounds
21:07:30 <andythenorth> is the dedicated server always logged through a unix pipe? o_O
21:08:10 * _dp_ never checked ttd server log for anything but crashes
21:08:44 <LordAro> the website's concept of "WEBTRANSLATOR" isn't eints, is it?
21:09:00 <LordAro> there seems to be no trace of it in the website code
21:09:30 <_dp_> have 5Gb of logs though, so it's never too late to check them xD
21:09:31 <frosch123> which was never publically released
21:09:58 * LordAro strips it out for now
21:11:00 <andythenorth> that’s just “no"
21:11:27 <frosch123> hmm, if root login via ssh is forbidden, how to i scp a file from /root ?
21:11:37 <andythenorth> why do we even have plane speed? :(
21:13:21 * frosch123 enabled root login :p
21:13:50 <_dp_> 5843 is a nice setting to have but probably somewhere in a very very hidden place
21:14:16 <_dp_> andythenorth, coz planes op
21:14:22 <frosch123> LordAro: i only know how to run docker as root
21:16:19 <andythenorth> crippling the plane speed in newgrf would be unacceptable I guess :P
21:16:43 <_dp_> probably most useful case for 5843 is to get them balanced between different newgrfs that were never meant to work together
21:17:00 <_dp_> or just do some crazy stuff xD
21:17:10 <andythenorth> just re-compile the newgrfs :P
21:17:18 <andythenorth> or write a better one
21:17:26 <andythenorth> all newgrfs are crap anyway
21:17:50 <_dp_> andythenorth, yeah, one and only try megagrf
21:18:01 <_dp_> andythenorth, or, no, wait, one for each server :p
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21:24:16 <andythenorth> I should build my web-based newgrf maker :P
21:25:18 <_dp_> hm... allow to embed newgrfs in savegame... that might be an easy way to overcome configuration-in-newgrf problem
21:25:22 <Rubidium> andythenorth: not because planetmaker provides a work around, but because it's a duplicate of FS#2339
21:25:46 <Rubidium> andythenorth: that's about about FS#5903
21:25:49 <andythenorth> so it’s implemented?
21:25:51 <_dp_> they'll have to be more capable of modifying stuff in other grfs to be really useful though
21:27:04 <_dp_> haha, it really is (timestamps)
21:28:22 <_dp_> logger: [2017-07-30 06:09:35] dbg: [net] Closed client connection 2
21:31:03 <Eddi|zuHause> <frosch123> hmm, if root login via ssh is forbidden, how to i scp a file from /root ? <- can't you normal-login and su?
21:32:33 <Eddi|zuHause> not sure how you'd scp from within an ssh session, though
21:33:26 <Eddi|zuHause> it feels like that should be possible
21:37:40 <_dp_> hmm, something's wrong, if I just start vanilla ttd server I get no timestamps %)
21:38:22 <peter1138> cp file from /root to ~, then sftp from ~
21:40:33 <_dp_> andythenorth, don't they appear one by one?
21:40:50 <Alkel_U3> something like "ssh sshhost 'sudo cat /root/file' > localfile" should work, assuming paswordless sudo.
21:41:58 <andythenorth> _dp_: now I have to fricking test it in the game eh :P
21:42:05 <Alkel_U3> it probably has a nicer solution, though :-)
21:43:42 <Alkel_U3> andythenorth: you would 'solve' this by holding down spacebar but than you might also lose other kind of messages
21:44:05 <Alkel_U3> s/messages/news and notifications/
21:44:28 <andythenorth> eh, they self-close in my test
21:44:46 <andythenorth> cba to understand what this is
21:45:48 <andythenorth> can anyone add a screenshot to the task explaining it?
21:45:59 <_dp_> andythenorth, I got it, there is show_date_in_logs setting
21:46:07 <andythenorth> otherwise…closing 5757
21:46:10 <andythenorth> don’t understand it
21:46:25 <andythenorth> _dp_: I’ll add comment to ticket thanks :)
21:47:32 <_dp_> andythenorth, probably he wants to delete all queued messages so they never even show
21:47:39 <andythenorth> makes no sense to me
21:47:46 <_dp_> andythenorth, also there might be some message settings in play too
21:51:09 <_dp_> andythenorth, 5710 aggreed, ugly and useless on minimap
21:51:20 <_dp_> andythenorth, but somewhat useful as zoning
21:51:22 <andythenorth> valid in game somehow
21:51:28 <andythenorth> visual overlay :P
21:51:40 <andythenorth> we lack nice tile-based overlays :)
21:51:44 <andythenorth> they would be…neat
21:51:53 <_dp_> missing them so much too
21:51:56 <andythenorth> cargo acceptance
21:51:58 <andythenorth> cargo production
21:52:14 <andythenorth> health of local economy, using NoEconomy byte on tile :P
21:52:21 <_dp_> andythenorth, anything from zoning patch and much more :p
21:52:35 <_dp_> zoning is basically overlays, just done in a bad way
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21:53:22 <_dp_> I even have overlay for industries where they can be placed
21:53:32 <_dp_> quite useful on ecs for example
21:53:57 <frosch123> _dp_: if it does, then for company 1 :p
21:54:23 <frosch123> (wrt. scenario editor town rating)
21:55:34 * andythenorth aiming for 350 FS before bed
21:56:25 <andythenorth> frosch123: peter1138 said this can’t be closed just by putting it in known_bugs :x :P
21:56:36 <andythenorth> I think it can be closed as 'feature'
21:56:53 <peter1138> feel free to ignore me
21:57:11 <andythenorth> it’s nice to have contrasting opinions eh
21:57:26 <frosch123> we use known_bugs to document limitations
21:57:42 <frosch123> it fits well with the other issues listed there
21:57:56 <andythenorth> and don’t use the oil rig station if you don’t want to share
21:58:03 <andythenorth> or raise land and build a dock
21:58:18 <_dp_> sharing via neutral station is ok for "feature" but it kind of breaks cargodist if I understand that bug correctly
21:58:35 <andythenorth> life is not a tidy maths problem
22:03:53 <_dp_> > as well as the desperation of needing a better aircraft, and anxiously awaiting the announcements to see whether one becomes available.
22:05:03 <andythenorth> can’t see how it can be done tbh
22:05:18 <andythenorth> unless newgrfs are only added after the game settings are configured and the map is generated
22:05:23 <Eddi|zuHause> _dp_: cargodist is fine with shared stations. just payment is terrible, also, cargodist will try to route EVERYTHING through that one link
22:05:39 <andythenorth> adding newgrf after map gen is…total bollocks
22:05:55 <andythenorth> static info provided by newgrf about each item: maybe
22:06:35 <_dp_> Eddi|zuHause, as it looks to me your sentence contradicts itself :p
22:06:45 <_dp_> Eddi|zuHause, how's it fine if it routes everything there
22:07:42 <Eddi|zuHause> _dp_: not everything everything, just a lot of stuff, because it's the only link connecting two large networks
22:08:02 <Eddi|zuHause> probably with poor connectivity
22:09:03 <Eddi|zuHause> if you connect two large networks, basically immediately half the cargo that used to be routed internally will now try to go through that link (and back)
22:09:07 <andythenorth> frosch123: you commented here w.r.t grtopia - was the intent that authors provide static info per item? Or run each newgrf in a sandbox and extract info automatically? Or something else? https://bugs.openttd.org/task/5689
22:09:42 <andythenorth> _dp_: just use point-to-point only with cdist :)
22:10:05 <frosch123> andythenorth: run grf in sandbox, check what items it adds, including intro dates for vehicles
22:10:10 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: grftopia was meant to provide a sandbox for newgrf-initialization while the title game is still running
22:10:55 <andythenorth> I’ll leave it open
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22:11:09 <andythenorth> I think it would be nice, but generate a lot of bug reports from newgrf authors
22:11:15 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: then it would be easy to check whether there are vehicles available at the selected start date. and stuff...
22:11:29 <_dp_> I've no idea how newgrfs works but having to run it just to see what vehicle it provides sounds terribly wrong :/
22:11:50 <andythenorth> it would have to wait for the full combination of grfs to be determined
22:11:56 <andythenorth> then generate a manifest?
22:13:07 <Eddi|zuHause> _dp_: how else would you determine it? what is actually provided may depend on game settings, grf parameters, other grfs loaded, ...
22:13:27 <andythenorth> and we might let GS loose on the grfs in future :P
22:13:53 <_dp_> Eddi|zuHause, just show what's in current grf and not worry about game stuff?
22:13:55 <Eddi|zuHause> _dp_: like a train grf may omit wagons if they carry no cargo (i.e. no industry set provides this cargo)
22:14:01 <_dp_> Eddi|zuHause, it's grf viewer, not game configuration viewer
22:14:02 <frosch123> andythenorth: see, we are moving towards new compile farm, then we can move towards c++11, then we can move towards thread_local, then we can run newgrf in threads :p
22:14:18 <andythenorth> _dp_: grfs depend on grfs
22:14:47 <Eddi|zuHause> _dp_: how about easter egg vehicles that the grf author wants to hide from that list?
22:15:18 <andythenorth> what about needing railtypes for the vehicles
22:15:25 <andythenorth> and needing vehicles for the railtypes to appear
22:16:59 <Eddi|zuHause> _dp_: and again, a train wagon viewer would be incomplete if it didn't show which cargos the train wagon could load. but you can't know the cargos it could load if you didn't specify an industry set
22:17:14 <_dp_> Eddi|zuHause, that sounds like a very weird case. isn't vehicle list easily accessible in game anyway (just cheat to future)?
22:17:41 <Eddi|zuHause> _dp_: no, some vehicles are never available.
22:17:58 <Eddi|zuHause> _dp_: other vehicles change shape/look/stats depending on which engine they are attached to
22:18:12 <andythenorth> some of this is due to some very poor choices
22:18:25 <andythenorth> great choices at the time :P
22:19:46 <Eddi|zuHause> _dp_: and some vehicle stats may depend on parameters. you can't determine them if you don't properly load the grf
22:19:53 <_dp_> Eddi|zuHause, you seem to be overthinking it, just show something, doesn't have to solve all the ambiguities
22:20:11 <Eddi|zuHause> _dp_: because someone invented action6/7/9/D
22:20:52 <_dp_> Eddi|zuHause, yeye and some stuff is stored in savegame and there is no guarantee that it's not modified after newgrf init :p
22:20:53 <andythenorth> authors will report that we have introduced a flawed feature
22:20:53 <Eddi|zuHause> _dp_: you seem to be underthinking it. what you propose is probably very useless
22:21:19 <_dp_> Eddi|zuHause, possibly, at least I definitely have no use for it xD
22:21:29 <_dp_> if I want list of vehicles I know where to find it
22:21:53 <andythenorth> I have a list of 29 FS requests from george, which he has, completely politely, described as ‘required'
22:22:19 <andythenorth> many of these relate to dynamic vehicle behaviour depending on consist, age, game date, cargo refit etc
22:23:05 <andythenorth> any newgrf viewer is going to spawn a bunch more feature requests or bug reports from (guessing here, not slandering anyone) george, michael, snail et al
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22:23:21 <Eddi|zuHause> _dp_: if you went through the grf, and showed a sprite for every action 3 (which sprite? purchase window? you can't really determine that without "loading" the grf), you immediately get requests to show articulated vehicles properly
22:23:27 <peter1138> do they still try to make stuff compatible with ttdpatch?
22:23:32 <andythenorth> somewhere peter1138 put a proposal for a static image per vehicle
22:23:42 <andythenorth> peter1138: no I think most gave that up
22:24:12 <peter1138> cos with the amount of engine slots in ottd a lot of dynamic stuff isn't necessary
22:24:28 <y2000rtc> Hi there, question. Do you know if someone will release next version of OpenTTD?
22:24:38 <peter1138> engine grouping maybe :p
22:24:53 <Eddi|zuHause> someone might release a next version
22:25:00 <Eddi|zuHause> but we never know until someone does
22:26:15 <andythenorth> y2000rtc what version do you have currently?
22:26:15 <_dp_> it might even be in April :p
22:26:55 <andythenorth> ok you’re all up to date :)
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22:28:17 <andythenorth> there are changes since 1.7.1
22:28:25 <andythenorth> they usually get released April 1 or so
22:29:10 <y2000rtc> I want to start with adjusting of grf files for graphics of rails and trains (engines, vagons). But how to start with that? Is here anyone who still remember his start with grf? :D I would like to understand which tools to use for that, how,... Any ideas, links? I don't want to wadte your time. Only need to have direction.
22:30:16 <_dp_> I remember it being pretty straightforward
22:32:08 <Alkel_U3> oh wait, did you say adjusting? That would be the wrong link, then
22:33:00 <y2000rtc> I already used this portal and I have to say that is not so easy for to understand. I will check right now if any news were grow up. Short quedtion. I would like to change only rail#, I would like to use rails with different speed (exist) but with the same graphics (slowest one - old school of TTD) Any ideas how to do it?
22:33:30 <andythenorth> you need a railtypes grf
22:33:45 <andythenorth> there is an example one in the nml examples somewhere :P
22:34:21 <planetmaker> swedischrails basically is an example
22:34:38 <planetmaker> it was the prototype for both, nml and railtypes :)
22:40:50 <Eddi|zuHause> don't close that
22:41:45 <andythenorth> trying to understand what it is
22:41:48 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: basically, every vehicle has a user (as in grf-author) defined bitfield, but you can only acces an ORed version of that over all vehicles in the train, not an individual vehicle
22:41:58 <andythenorth> where are the docs for this?
22:42:11 <andythenorth> I remember reading about user bits a long time ago, but they’re not useful
22:42:14 <andythenorth> now I can’t find the docs
22:43:50 <andythenorth> accessed via var 42
22:43:54 <andythenorth> what’s the purpose?
22:43:59 <Eddi|zuHause> that's probably it
22:44:21 <andythenorth> what possible use is it? :)
22:44:44 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: say you have dining cars, with this you can check whether the train has one dining car in it
22:45:05 <Eddi|zuHause> every dining car would set bit X in this property
22:45:09 <andythenorth> without having to query every vehicle in consist?
22:45:24 <Eddi|zuHause> and if var 42 has bit X set, you have a dining car in the train
22:45:39 <andythenorth> remind me of that when I code dining cars
22:46:02 <andythenorth> I was going to just use var 60, like a simple person
22:47:04 <andythenorth> so the benefit there is the OR
22:47:15 <andythenorth> why throw that all away with FS 5460?
22:47:19 <Eddi|zuHause> you could do that, but you have to hard-code each vehicle-ID of a dining car
22:47:30 <Eddi|zuHause> if you wanted dining cars in different generations and stuff
22:47:33 <andythenorth> the compile does it
22:47:40 <andythenorth> people should get a better compiler tbh
22:47:47 <andythenorth> instead of distorting the game
22:48:04 <andythenorth> anyway, why does snail want to throw away the useful part, and check it per vehicle?
22:48:05 <Eddi|zuHause> still, this would involve looping over the train multiple times
22:49:13 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: i don't remember what snail wanted this for (we probably discussed it), but say you wanted to check whether the last wagon is a caboose...
22:49:22 <andythenorth> check the ID of the last vehicle
22:49:38 <andythenorth> stop adding metadata, just use data
22:49:55 <Eddi|zuHause> i vaguely remember something about heating systems, but that might have been george
22:49:58 <y2000rtc> Thanks to all, I'm going to go study your links. :D See you
22:50:00 <andythenorth> I’ll ask snail directly, instead of guessing :)
22:51:10 <andythenorth> snail has mail :P
22:51:51 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: again like with the previous example, that may be lots of IDs
22:52:00 <frosch123> andythenorth: when i told you about newgrf functors the other day, i was refering to that task
22:52:18 <Eddi|zuHause> instead of one easily defined bit
22:52:57 <andythenorth> yup, I’ve mailed snail
22:53:11 <andythenorth> the armchair spec for OpenTTD is glorious eh
22:53:25 <andythenorth> think of the beautiful things we’ll be able to build
22:58:22 <milek7> huh? openttd spec is nice
22:59:21 <Eddi|zuHause> milek7: i think with "armchair specs" he means stuff that is suggested but not implemented
22:59:39 <andythenorth> all it takes is finding people who want to code it
22:59:45 <andythenorth> funny that I got all my ponies
22:59:48 <andythenorth> but others don’t
22:59:52 <andythenorth> why is that then? :P
23:01:00 <Eddi|zuHause> you're more annoying than them :p
23:01:58 <andythenorth> I think you wanted ‘relentless’ :P
23:02:52 <frosch123> andythenorth: i wouldn't agree to all random newgrf vars which are requested
23:03:07 <frosch123> 80% of industry and house vars are completely useless
23:03:31 <frosch123> newgrf features should solve more than one ad-hoc problem
23:05:58 <andythenorth> frosch123: feel free to close some :)
23:06:29 <frosch123> that's my point... there is no yes/no to those requests
23:06:43 <frosch123> the correct answer is "different"
23:07:07 <frosch123> collect all vehicle related requests, and make a shared solution
23:07:08 <andythenorth> I try to group related requests and rewrite, iff I can see a pattern
23:07:17 <frosch123> each suggestion on its own is crap
23:08:03 <andythenorth> the more actual crap I close, the more patterns are visible in what’s left
23:08:05 <frosch123> that's why i hate requests like "i need a flag here", because it does not tell you the real intention
23:08:13 <andythenorth> there’s a lot of ‘speak your brains’ in FS, or was :P
23:08:35 <frosch123> it's the product of already abusing 3 other weird vars and trying to squeeze in some even more weird one
23:08:59 <andythenorth> I would file most of them under ‘design your set better'
23:09:26 <andythenorth> that’s what I ran into earlier this year with FIRS?
23:09:48 <andythenorth> [all solved now]
23:12:16 <frosch123> D0xx and DCxx string are all the same, except where they are the direct callback return value
23:12:35 <frosch123> i have no idea whether that task still applies
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23:13:08 <andythenorth> I am not inclined to test it :P
23:13:17 <andythenorth> george thinks it’s a non-issue now
23:13:38 <frosch123> oh, wait, i remember something
23:14:03 <frosch123> there is some other fs task where i attached a hacky fix
23:15:52 <andythenorth> so…I can do simple maths in my head
23:15:55 <andythenorth> or in a calculator
23:16:11 <andythenorth> also…scripts supersede that completely
23:17:21 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: well, industries show %, why shouldn't towns?
23:17:37 <frosch123> i found the diff, but i think it was a case of andy-too-lazy-to-create-fs-task
23:17:38 <andythenorth> because not needed?
23:18:09 <andythenorth> frosch123: is relevant to attach to 4758?
23:18:13 <andythenorth> or I create a new one
23:18:29 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: also why should i calculate in my head if the computer does it way better/faster?
23:18:53 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: got a patch? o_O
23:19:03 <_dp_> 4508 looks like a job for GS
23:19:05 <andythenorth> I am hovering over the ‘reopen’ button Eddi|zuHause :)
23:19:44 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: patch? me? gui stuff? have you learned nothing? :p
23:19:49 <andythenorth> industry % is a legacy of the default industry growth mechanic
23:19:53 *** FLHerne has joined #openttd
23:20:20 <andythenorth> frosch123: I’d have to search logs to find out what our purpose was there :P
23:20:25 <frosch123> andythenorth: eddi is already busy with not doing something in case he discovers something about nekomaster
23:21:20 <frosch123> andythenorth: the diff is from 2016-12-22 :)
23:21:29 <Eddi|zuHause> oh, i already forgot i didn't want to do anything about nekomaster
23:21:30 <andythenorth> 1 for each day of the year
23:21:36 <andythenorth> 2 on christmas, 2 on easter
23:21:37 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm getting old...
23:21:40 <frosch123> i think it was about cargo amounts
23:21:50 <andythenorth> I wanted to show them in industry window cb
23:21:54 <andythenorth> but you found a better way
23:22:02 <andythenorth> and I think it didn’t work anyway
23:22:12 <andythenorth> or I ran out of stack
23:22:15 <andythenorth> something like that
23:22:35 <Eddi|zuHause> "stack" is a serious misnomer there
23:23:12 <andythenorth> bridges I have never made newgrf of
23:23:21 <andythenorth> if I did, it would be a wonderful newgrf
23:23:24 <andythenorth> really something very special
23:23:31 <andythenorth> I’d have the best people work on it
23:26:01 <andythenorth> other routes seem to be preferred
23:29:31 <frosch123> i would like a heightmap preview with some sliders to define a curve for greyscale->height translation
23:29:35 <Eddi|zuHause> what's the problem there, anyway? just run the mapgen and convert it to heightmap?
23:29:56 <frosch123> the preview should also contain highlight in places where the slope is too steep
23:30:12 <frosch123> (more than 1 height difference between tiles)
23:30:36 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: he wants a faster game start
23:30:52 <andythenorth> he/she, non-obvious gender
23:30:58 <frosch123> andythenorth: in other words, it's the thing i always mention when someone talks about redesigning the mapgen gui :p
23:31:08 <Eddi|zuHause> paint the normal heightmap in shades of green, and the error bits in shades of red?
23:31:20 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: "they"
23:31:21 <frosch123> something like that
23:31:40 <frosch123> but it would require loading of heightmaps with something not as bad as _switch_mode
23:32:01 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't know why people make the language about gender-neutral pronouns so complicated
23:32:39 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: heightmaptopia?
23:35:54 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: is it easier in german?
23:36:05 <andythenorth> we get very confused about it in UK english
23:36:21 <frosch123> english has it easier by two magnitudes
23:36:34 <frosch123> at least your job descriptions are neutral
23:38:05 <frosch123> though the admin at work figured out a gender-neutral method by abbreviating words
23:40:08 <frosch123> instead of "dear coworkersladies and coworkermen", he just writes "dear cowo."
23:40:38 <andythenorth> can already change 0D
23:40:44 <andythenorth> why bother with 0E as well?
23:40:50 <frosch123> andythenorth: exactly :) it's a work around for not being able to return 32bits in some other callback"
23:41:20 <frosch123> it's "i do not have enough bits here, let's add some over there instead"
23:41:51 <andythenorth> running costs, broadly, don’t need to change, ever per vehicle instance
23:50:41 <andythenorth> ok christmas is cancelled
23:50:48 <andythenorth> only 364 FS left
23:51:54 <frosch123> V453000: "snail" is actually a slang term for a hot lady
23:52:14 <frosch123> noone dares to use "slug" in that context :p
23:52:19 <V453000> that's not even surprising for germans XD
23:52:26 <Eddi|zuHause> <frosch123> at least your job descriptions are neutral <-- i always find it funny how english is much more gender-neutral than german, but they have the exact same discussions about not being gender-neutral
23:52:55 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: perhaps the germans just gave up :p
23:52:56 <Eddi|zuHause> seems to me like the perfect reason why the language being gender-neutral has no effect on gender equality whatsoever
23:55:59 <andythenorth> so the heightmap preview was non-close? o_O
23:56:49 <frosch123> yep, if i would care about votes, it would be one of the tasks i would vote for :p
23:57:33 <andythenorth> I would sooner fix the map gen, but eh :)
23:57:51 <frosch123> i consider the preview a prerequisite for that
23:59:09 <_dp_> can nicely server as water borders preview as well
23:59:11 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: you forgot that "cow" is also a slang term for a ... lady :p
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