IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2017-08-05
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00:00:12 <andythenorth> or (I think suggested already)
00:00:37 <andythenorth> a single grf controls the tiles, and there’s a mapping of roadtypes:tramtypes
00:00:59 <andythenorth> e.g, if it’s ELRD, then any tram bits are ELRL
00:01:33 <Wolf01> (x) move the catenary to it's own bit into the tile (your first idea), add a tool to place catenary, newgrfs define catenary aspect (no separation between tramway and road ones|3 definitions: tram alone, road alone, road+tram|road = road+tram, tram alone)
00:02:04 <andythenorth> eh, they’re all a bit complex eh?
00:02:26 <Wolf01> There's no simple solution or we would already have done that
00:04:56 <Wolf01> With road+tram means the author need to define all the possible combinations he want to make possible, it's combinatory, you'll get a soccer field of catenary sprites
00:08:13 <andythenorth> the answer needs to come from player perspective
00:08:27 <andythenorth> I can’t be having stuck trams, as player :)
00:09:06 <andythenorth> the problem is that what looks like catenary in a sensible grf might be something else in a hax grf
00:09:22 <andythenorth> or rather, we can’t rely on multiple grfs to co-operate at all
00:10:11 <Wolf01> With groundtypes already you can only have only one grf's types on a tile
00:10:24 <Wolf01> Maybe even only one NRT grf at all
00:10:54 <andythenorth> when adding roadtype/tramtype bits
00:11:29 <andythenorth> stick the current roadtype/tramtype in a var, and let the author return what type it should be changed to
00:11:44 <andythenorth> so e.g. if adding ELRD to a tile with ROAD and RAIL
00:11:59 <andythenorth> the cb returns ELRL
00:12:13 <andythenorth> assume authors do the right thing
00:12:49 <andythenorth> with a cb, everything falls to author
00:13:01 <andythenorth> they can check crazy stuff like date, terrain type, town zone, all kinds of crap
00:13:21 <andythenorth> but a good grf will just make sure that trams work on trolleybus road and vice versa
00:13:29 <andythenorth> and it’s all on the author to make it sane
00:14:19 <andythenorth> I think this also fixes town roads
00:14:43 <andythenorth> assuming that adding ELRL causes an upgrade to ELRD for the town-owned ROAD
00:15:26 <andythenorth> if the author doesn’t want automatic conversion like that, it’s up to them
00:15:35 <andythenorth> and they are responsible for confused players :P
00:16:19 <andythenorth> also cbs are easy to spec and implement :P
00:16:44 <andythenorth> I think this does maybe imply only one grf per tile
00:17:26 <andythenorth> authors can trivially be responsible for the upgrade graph when they control the inputs
00:17:39 <andythenorth> but not if the inputs (lables) are unknown and arbitrary (other grfs)
00:18:17 <andythenorth> I don’t know how ‘only one grf per tile’ would be explainable in gameplay
00:18:44 <andythenorth> seems like players would constantly see error message
00:19:11 <Wolf01> With 3 NRT grfs we already got a crash
00:19:27 <Wolf01> I'm for a single, well done NRT grf for each game
00:19:37 <andythenorth> that is appealing
00:19:46 <andythenorth> but goes against the prevailing trend for grfs
00:19:48 <Wolf01> Like a single, well done industry grf, railtype grf
00:20:28 <Wolf01> Eh, maybe you want american trams and european trucks
00:20:38 <andythenorth> I think it’s worth trying to keep the idea of multiple NRT grfs
00:20:52 <andythenorth> if authors stuck to a limited set of labels....
00:20:55 <Wolf01> Or a grf only provide pax trams and you want heavy equipments too
00:20:58 <andythenorth> it would be fine
00:21:11 <andythenorth> if we mostly had ROAD, ELRD, RAIL, ELRL
00:21:47 <Wolf01> We mostly have ROAD, ELRL :P
00:21:53 <andythenorth> and not ‘35mph trams with metre gauge, 120 pound rail and 600v DC electrification returning to ground’
00:23:10 * andythenorth wonders about forcing every type to specificy whether building it causes ELRD / ELRL upgrade
00:23:54 <andythenorth> and forcing every grf to specify whether it provides ELRD/ELRL
00:24:36 <andythenorth> ‘label if unpowered tile'
00:24:40 <andythenorth> ‘label if powered tile'
00:24:56 <andythenorth> dual labels for every type?
00:25:31 <Wolf01> This should open possibilities like "you can't upgrade RAIL to ELRL, xxRD can't have catenary"
00:25:40 <andythenorth> I like the dual labels idea
00:26:09 <andythenorth> it supports also the idea of types that don’t care about powered
00:26:24 <andythenorth> e.g. MUDR or something for mud roads
00:26:30 <andythenorth> could stay as MUDR either way
00:26:50 <andythenorth> so I add ELRL to mud, flipping the powered bit for the tile
00:26:59 <andythenorth> and it stays as MUDR also
00:27:20 <andythenorth> I add ELRL to ROAD, flipping the powered bit for the tile
00:27:25 <andythenorth> and now we have ELRD
00:27:43 <andythenorth> but the type that already existed defines it’s own label
00:27:51 <andythenorth> so arbitrary grfs can combine safely
00:28:07 <Wolf01> You know that in 3 hours I only made a test suite for a single class with 2 assertions? ^_^
00:28:20 <andythenorth> does the test actually work?
00:28:28 <andythenorth> many tests don’t, in my limited experience
00:28:40 <andythenorth> I try breaking the app to test the tests
00:29:03 <Wolf01> I should exercise on test driven development, and I usually make only simple tests as I'm lazy
00:30:10 <andythenorth> if I downgrade ELRL to RAIL, does that unflip the powered bit for the tile?
00:30:15 <Wolf01> BTW, back on topic, you are elaborating this <Wolf01> (x) move the catenary to it's own bit into the tile (your first idea), add a tool to place catenary, newgrfs define catenary aspect (no separation between tramway and road ones|3 definitions: tram alone, road alone, road+tram|road = road+tram, tram alone)
00:30:16 <andythenorth> breaking the ELRD?
00:30:42 <andythenorth> I am forcing the idea that every type has to accomodate a catenary bit
00:31:09 <andythenorth> but it would be built implicitly, no need for an extra tool (and extra UI and crap)
00:31:16 <andythenorth> dual labels for every type
00:31:33 <andythenorth> I guess it’s OR and NAND
00:31:45 <andythenorth> either type can flip the bit on
00:31:58 <andythenorth> both types have to downgrade to flip the bit off
00:32:12 <Wolf01> You should have 3 possibilities: has catenary bit but no catenary (eg. MUDR) | has catenary bit and provides catenary (ROAD, ELRD) | doesn't allow catenary
00:33:09 <andythenorth> ‘incompatible with types that flip the powered bit on’
00:33:40 <Wolf01> <andythenorth> both types have to downgrade to flip the bit off <- Agreed
00:33:57 <andythenorth> frosch will explain to me tomorrow why this is stupid :D
00:34:01 <Wolf01> But how do you tell the player?
00:34:07 <andythenorth> player will figure it out
00:34:16 <andythenorth> also it doesn’t usually matter
00:34:25 <andythenorth> ROAD vehicles can route on ELRD
00:34:36 <Wolf01> You downgrade ELRL to RAIL but ELRD stays, you'll drive the player mad
00:34:51 <andythenorth> it’s better than breaking routes
00:35:15 <andythenorth> I can see the purpose of a separate catenary tool
00:35:34 <Wolf01> But it's the same as now "I added ELRL to ROAD, nor I removed ELRL but the catenary is still there"
00:35:50 <andythenorth> I think that’s acceptable
00:36:09 <andythenorth> confusing, but acceptable
00:36:25 <Wolf01> Just a bit more automatic
00:36:27 <andythenorth> except backwards :)
00:36:49 <andythenorth> it would try too hard to not have broken routes, opposite of current situation
00:37:04 <andythenorth> a catenary tool would assume unified catenary?
00:37:41 <Wolf01> A catenary tool would assume that the grf knows and tell the game how to upgrade a label
00:37:45 <andythenorth> I don’t hate it, I just think it’s more complexity
00:38:12 <Wolf01> I mean, you have RAIL, use catenary tool over it and you'll get ELRL, fine, thanks, simple
00:38:39 <andythenorth> but without unifying catenary, we’re back at where we started :)
00:38:47 <Wolf01> You have XYRL, you use catenary over it... which other label becomes?
00:39:12 <andythenorth> we’re stuck with player unable to detect why vehicles aren’t routing
00:39:21 <andythenorth> and only a few 8bpp pixels to show it
00:39:21 <Wolf01> Or, you unify the catenary...
00:39:41 <Wolf01> Which means you can't use the catenary to fake subways
00:39:52 <Wolf01> Which is a BAD use case anyway
00:39:56 <andythenorth> so many kittens died :P
00:40:04 <andythenorth> fuck all these proposed catenary hacks, seriously
00:40:13 <andythenorth> ‘but NRT must allow boatloads of shit’
00:40:19 <andythenorth> is making it not get shipped
00:42:31 <andythenorth> catenary is not a good way to do ropeways, ski-lifts, subways, or eye candy
00:43:09 <andythenorth> then we should have a new transport type for it
00:43:09 <Wolf01> No, it's not, but until we'll provide authors a good way, they will hack things into it the wrong way
00:43:14 <andythenorth> and subways are always stupid
00:43:37 <andythenorth> spec doesn’t need to be written around the hax
00:43:47 <andythenorth> then they’re not hax, they’re spec :P
00:44:25 * andythenorth votes unified catenary tool and unified appearance
00:44:49 <andythenorth> if it was drawn via a switch chain, author could swap sprites depending on types on the tile
00:45:04 <andythenorth> so actually multiple types could be drawn, just have to be combined in one sprite
00:46:03 <Wolf01> Up to 14*14 combinations
00:46:56 <Wolf01> Maybe even 15x15 if you override ROAD and RAIL
00:46:59 <andythenorth> have fun drawing that :)
00:47:06 <andythenorth> the work might put them off eh?
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02:22:40 <supermop> well flight is delayed 3.5 hours
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10:44:30 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... so... a bunch of weird things just happened...
10:44:49 <Eddi|zuHause> 1) C:S crashed, taking my system with it
10:45:17 <Eddi|zuHause> 2) on reboot i randomly decided i'd try to revive my attempt at installing win10, and it actually booted
10:45:43 <Eddi|zuHause> 3) after some minutes of booting, win10 decided "i can't be configured for this hardware", and refused to run
10:46:54 * debdog 'd consider win10 not running good fortune
10:48:08 <Eddi|zuHause> sure, but it didn't actually leave room for figuring out WHY
10:49:30 <debdog> hardware --> prolly missing driver. why not tell which one.... what do you expect from MS?!
10:50:08 <Eddi|zuHause> this computer is not exactly new...
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11:08:32 <Wolf01> Eddi, did you update it to creator update or you installed the last version directly? Because with CU they dropped support for some hardware and processors
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11:13:01 <Eddi|zuHause> i downloaded some install disk a few months ago
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11:31:48 <andythenorth> Wolf01: 3 options, need writing up better
11:32:36 <andythenorth> A) leave it as is, but authors can check the labels on the tile when catenary is drawn, and show different sprites depending on tram/ rail / both being powered
11:33:38 <andythenorth> B) author dermines how the existing roadtype / tramtype is upgraded when tramtype / roadtype is added or changed on the tile
11:34:36 <andythenorth> C) catenary tool, either unified (my preference) or separate (realism), or somehow newgrf determined (possible)
11:36:48 <Wolf01> I vote for B, but C is tempting
11:37:19 <andythenorth> I vote for B, but they need writing up better
11:37:26 <andythenorth> and see what frosch thinks
11:43:23 <andythenorth> in all cases, I prefer two principles
11:43:32 <Wolf01> Mmmh, I did it again, I need to import an existing git repository on github...
11:43:49 <andythenorth> (1) newgrf author is responsible for doing right thing resp. ease for players
11:44:14 <andythenorth> (2) hax are hax, the spec shouldn’t be distorted by them
11:44:52 <andythenorth> i.e. catenary is in the spec for showing catenary, not for ropeways, flowerbeds, overhead trams, subways and other crap
11:51:25 <Wolf01> I want to make Venice like cities
11:53:30 <Wolf01> Disable inclined roads
11:57:47 <FLHerne> Would that need a mechanism for cities to choose a roadtype?
11:58:47 <FLHerne> And give houses/roads a buildable-on-water flag?
11:59:41 <Wolf01> Wetroads will be actual roads, but not compatible with ROAD like is HAUL
12:00:06 <Wolf01> And don't allow tramways to be built over it
12:02:11 <Wolf01> But this is all about flags
12:02:23 <Wolf01> We'll mark roadtypes as town buildable
12:02:49 <Wolf01> Towns will be able to pick one of them and keep it for the entire game
12:02:58 <Wolf01> Or until you replace the seed tile
12:03:08 <Wolf01> Then you change the town roadtype
12:04:06 <FLHerne> Venice-like cities in the middle of a desert would look slightly odd
12:04:39 <Wolf01> Also on top of a mountain
12:06:31 <Wolf01> If you want realism or remove oddities, then is your care to chose the right stuff for your scenario
12:07:57 <FLHerne> Not really seeing how one could do that, without just manually building a scenario
12:08:29 <Eddi|zuHause> in other news: why is there no one-way road with bus lanes?
12:08:35 <FLHerne> I guess 'Venice' is too niche to care much
12:09:15 <Wolf01> <Eddi|zuHause> in other news: why is there no one-way road with bus lanes? <- because I didn't fiddle with that code yet
12:09:25 <FLHerne> But if roadtypes had a "build (only) on water" flag, then a city choosing that roadtype would have to place its centre tile on the sea somewhere
12:09:37 <FLHerne> (or a river, and be a bit stuffed)
12:09:40 <Eddi|zuHause> Wolf01: probably wrong game :p
12:10:59 <Wolf01> FLHerne: we won't change mechanics to allow building on water directly, we are just working on roads
12:11:07 <andythenorth> making all the pax engines 12/8 long needs some thought
12:11:14 <andythenorth> otherwise they’ll all look same-same
12:11:55 <Wolf01> Make a diesel Centennial 16/8
12:12:21 <andythenorth> I am heading mostly into fake engines
12:12:27 <andythenorth> but with a grain of truth :P
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12:39:16 <andythenorth> why can’t road restrict vehicles by type?
12:39:22 <andythenorth> e.g. buses vs. trucks? o_O
12:39:42 <Wolf01> Because there is no such separation, they are just cargo
12:39:52 <Wolf01> You can load pax on a bulldozer
12:46:28 <Flygon> They probably do it in India.
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13:09:50 <Eddi|zuHause> man, i can't run tram over my dam
13:12:09 <Wolf01> Ha! Test spotted a bad copy-paste
13:15:26 <Alberth> I sometimes wonder if it's not better to never copy/paste :p
13:17:38 <Wolf01> With autocomplete you can almost write code like "A..[TAB][TAB][Down][TAB]", but sometimes you need something a bit more complex which autocomplete already suggest wrong :P
13:19:01 * andythenorth copy-pastes everything :P
13:21:40 <andythenorth> it’s fantastic that adding a 0.3 long wagon to a 2.8 long train results in a 3.0 train length
13:22:28 <Wolf01> Like samu and his 0.1 + 0.1 + 0.1 = 0 :P
13:23:29 <andythenorth> can’t help thinking there’s something screwy with the presentation of vehicle lengths :P
13:23:41 <andythenorth> not as useful to the player as it purpots to be
13:24:39 <Rubidium> it's in 1/8ths, so... if you want rounding to be gone you need 3 decimal places
13:25:16 <Rubidium> and arguably rounding up is better than rounding down or to the nearest in this case because you definitely don't want your train to be slightly too long
13:34:59 <andythenorth> 3dp seems overkill eh?
13:35:59 <andythenorth> we don’t have a fractions font? o_O
13:59:30 <Alberth> make it in 1/8s, eg "3 1/8"
14:00:05 <Alberth> or rather /16, since 16/8 is one tile, iirc :)
14:00:19 <andythenorth> that was my thought too :)
14:00:27 <andythenorth> but if we don’t have a fraction font…?
14:01:00 <Alberth> never saw it in the sprite font, as I remember
14:02:36 <Alberth> alternatively, express it in base 16 :p
14:03:17 <andythenorth> 3 4/16 would be ok
14:03:32 <andythenorth> rounding to decimals looks like a bug :P
14:04:26 <Alberth> lengths aren't specified in nm either in the real world :p
14:05:03 <Alberth> or rather number of wavelengths of light, iirc :p
14:07:24 <andythenorth> so I’ve patched Iron Horse to 4/8 and 8/8 lengths
14:07:33 <andythenorth> it’s not as good as I hoped :(
14:09:35 <Alberth> if newer engines don't get longer, it should be alright
14:10:23 <andythenorth> there’s no pleasing sense of order when building trains
14:10:27 <andythenorth> because the numbers don’t add up
14:10:52 <andythenorth> possibly the only solution is to use 8/8 vehicles exclusively
14:14:36 <Alberth> just make the platforms 1 tile longer than your train :)
14:15:30 <andythenorth> that’s begging the question :P
14:15:44 <andythenorth> you can’t end-run around my meta-game with solutions like that :|
14:17:57 <Rubidium> then we can just use ints
14:18:24 <andythenorth> we could redefine the length units :P
14:20:18 <Alberth> just say "fits", or "too long" :)
14:22:10 <Wolf01> I think you are creating a problem from nothing
14:22:16 <Eddi|zuHause> i think what andy actually needs is a "don't show fractions in depot" setting
14:22:58 <Eddi|zuHause> (all fractions round up)
14:30:03 <andythenorth> adding ‘0.3’ to ‘1.8’ and getting ‘2.0’ feels like you made a mistake
14:30:44 <andythenorth> we could just put gridlines on the depot view :P
14:32:16 <Wolf01> Maybe put number on each grid line instead
14:32:29 <andythenorth> I have vertical gridlines in my text editor, at 4 spaces
14:32:37 <andythenorth> I seem to be the only person who does that, but eh
14:33:10 <Alberth> I have seen editor that do that
14:42:52 <andythenorth> not sure how the gridlines could be shown
14:43:12 <andythenorth> if they use 2 pixels (light, dark), they’ll look like dividers, as per road/ship depots
14:50:06 <Wolf01> No light-dark, they should look like a ruler
14:52:20 <andythenorth> needs a mockup :)
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14:57:18 <andythenorth> chibi 4/8 wagons look good
15:34:00 <Wolf01> for (int w = r.left + this->header_width; w <= r.right; w += TRAININFO_DEFAULT_VEHICLE_WIDTH * 2) {
15:34:00 <Wolf01> GfxDrawLine(w - this->hscroll->GetPosition(), r.top, w - this->hscroll->GetPosition(), r.bottom, 0);
15:34:14 <Wolf01> andythenorth, depot_gui.cpp:348
15:49:25 <Wolf01> It's just a mock, misses tile numbers and I don't really know if the TRAININFO_DEFAULT_VEHICLE_WIDTH * 2 step is right
15:50:40 <Wolf01> Also I should have used the scroll position in the for too
16:06:16 <andythenorth> works much more directly than watching a number
16:06:22 <andythenorth> much more tactile and visual
16:06:29 <andythenorth> the black line is ugly mind :)
16:07:30 <Wolf01> Yeah, it seem to be more intuitive, maybe with a lighter color and sublines to show half tiles, also the tile number near the main lines
16:08:41 <andythenorth> does it need to be togglable?
16:09:13 <Wolf01> A small widget in some corner would be cool
16:09:28 <andythenorth> any option to draw dashed lines?
16:09:34 <andythenorth> will probably suck but eh :P
16:09:47 <andythenorth> dashed lines are usually worse
16:09:48 <Wolf01> There is line width and dashed
16:10:10 <andythenorth> colour 7, dashed
16:12:05 <andythenorth> how did you dash it? I’ll adjust my local patch
16:12:45 <Wolf01> On GfxDrawLine() add ", 1, 1" as last arguments
16:13:57 <andythenorth> think 9 might be better than 7
16:13:58 <Wolf01> If you want to make dashed more spaced chenge the last value
16:17:34 <andythenorth> 9, 2, 2 is really ugly, don’t bother trying that
16:17:41 * andythenorth tests all the variations :P
16:19:19 <andythenorth> I think it has to be 9, 1, 2
16:19:29 <andythenorth> I prefer 9, 2, 1 but most people will find it weird
16:19:50 <andythenorth> also the line shouldn’t be 2px wide if it’s showing a precision limit
16:20:10 <Wolf01> We could space by 1px the wagons
16:20:22 <Wolf01> So it doesn't need to be 2px
16:21:03 * andythenorth tries without dashes
16:21:41 * andythenorth experiments with tick marks
16:25:43 <andythenorth> there’s no perfect answer here :)
16:25:48 <andythenorth> can we ship it? o_O
16:26:04 <Wolf01> Make it configurable in the game settings
16:27:54 <Wolf01> Fix the scrolling, add a show/hide button, add tile numbers
16:28:04 <andythenorth> lose the current count
16:28:18 <Wolf01> Space the wagons by 1px
16:28:51 <andythenorth> where to show the numbers?
16:30:10 <andythenorth> stop aircraft hangar crashing :P
16:30:17 <andythenorth> might be unrelated
16:31:43 <andythenorth> hmm reproducible :P
16:32:07 <andythenorth> ship depots also :)
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16:35:43 <Wolf01> There's no horizontal scrollbar
16:36:03 <Wolf01> Just put an if somewhere and initialize a variable to 0
16:40:37 <andythenorth> would be nice to have a new feature :)
16:46:24 <Wolf01> This feature should be used only in train depots
16:46:56 <Wolf01> So, where I put it, it's not the right place
16:48:11 <Eddi|zuHause> man, i want an overground subway :/
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16:53:50 <Eddi|zuHause> i had a nice route planned, but it crossed the river, and it always said "slope too steep"
16:54:02 <Eddi|zuHause> i'd much rather go overground and bridge the river :/
17:04:54 <andythenorth> Wolf01: length counter?
17:23:00 <andythenorth> got a patch for it? o_O
17:24:03 <andythenorth> has anyone written a grf to test it?
17:24:54 <Wolf01> I set manually the flag for ELRD and works, for RAIL/ELRL it already isn't considered for houses
17:25:29 <andythenorth> no tram houses :)
17:34:56 <Wolf01> Depends on the orientation
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17:47:26 <andythenorth> ^ would mess with industries imho
18:07:07 <andythenorth> for reasons, andythenorth has no commit rights ;)
18:07:50 <Wolf01> Ok, I was too confident that a panel on top of the depot vehicle matrix could have helped to display lines and numbers
18:12:38 <Wolf01> Padding too doesn't do what I thought
18:12:59 <andythenorth> hmm there are shitloads of actual patches on FS
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18:36:22 <Wolf01> Not many ideas on how to do it better
19:04:13 <andythenorth> I’ll apply the patch
19:08:14 <andythenorth> Wolf01: it might need support for UI zoom? o_O
19:08:56 <andythenorth> oh the TL needs changing :)
19:09:13 <andythenorth> gah, how does anyone use 1x UI :P
19:12:40 <andythenorth> Wolf01: we need a different constant than TRAININFO_DEFAULT_VEHICLE_WIDTH
19:12:58 <andythenorth> I think TRAININFO_DEFAULT_VEHICLE_WIDTH might be 28px, which isn’t the one we want ;)
19:13:41 <Alberth> easy, don't touch zoom :p
19:19:14 <andythenorth> hmm the current length counter must know the TL constant
19:22:40 <andythenorth> what is TILE_SIZE
19:30:16 <andythenorth> fixed length, UI zoom support also
19:30:23 <andythenorth> now just need to fix the number positions :)
19:33:10 <andythenorth> ach, it needs a gutter
19:33:16 <andythenorth> not just stuck in a row :)
19:33:27 <andythenorth> htf do we do that?
19:33:42 <andythenorth> Alberth: can you remember anything about GUI? :|
19:34:38 <Wolf01> I wanted to add a 8px panel on top to show the numbers, which scrolled horizontally but not vertically... too much work :P
19:34:59 <Wolf01> Drawing on top is easier XD
19:36:43 <andythenorth> obscured by trains if you have enough of them in depot
19:43:07 * andythenorth staring at widget drawing :P
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20:00:42 <Alberth> andythenorth: click on it to use it? :p
20:01:01 <andythenorth> what about when the bit you need to click on doesn’t exist yet? o_O
20:02:17 <Alberth> OnPaint just draws the entire gui
20:02:39 <Alberth> faking all scrolling by painting stuff at the right spot
20:04:54 <Alberth> I think standard widgets are drawn later, but not sure
20:05:02 <andythenorth> the numbers at the bottom could use a small row of their own
20:05:12 <andythenorth> they need to scroll with the train rows though
20:05:43 <Alberth> looks a bit confusing wrt other depots
20:06:38 <Alberth> insert a background widget at the right spot, then in OnPaint draw numbers on it using the scrollbar offset
20:06:43 <andythenorth> there is nowhere else in the main game that uses dashed lines either :P
20:07:11 <Alberth> use clipping to ensure you stay inside the borders of the widget
20:08:36 <andythenorth> do the vertical dividers look too much like the column dividers in other depot types?
20:08:37 <Alberth> draw only the top half at each row, and an additional row indicating the width and the number?
20:08:51 <Alberth> do the vertical dividers look too much like the column dividers in other depot types? <-- imho yes
20:09:08 <Alberth> it's easy to confuse them as separate boxes
20:09:25 <andythenorth> what’s the downside of the confusion?
20:10:15 <Alberth> is confusion itself not confusing enough?
20:10:44 <Alberth> people may think ships or RVs are linked, eg
20:10:47 <andythenorth> “draw only the top half” <- top half of what? o_O
20:11:00 <andythenorth> there should be a solution to be found here somewhere
20:11:00 <Alberth> of the vertical line, in each row
20:11:26 <andythenorth> couldn’t figure out how to do that :)
20:11:43 <Alberth> draw lots of small vertical lines :p
20:14:12 <Alberth> a short mark in each row is nice, I think
20:14:21 <Alberth> useful if the window is high
20:16:23 <Alberth> yeah, the code likely computes height of a row, for placing train piccies
20:16:52 <Alberth> and vertical numbers, and "stopped" icons :p
20:17:27 <Alberth> so don't draw from top to bottom, but do it for each row, and draw 1/2 or 1/4 of the row height
20:18:23 <Wolf01> <Alberth> looks a bit confusing wrt other depots <- train depot is the only gui which isn't a matrix and allow moving vehicles, and drawing lines is confusing? :D
20:19:11 <Alberth> if you're showing boxes that are not boxes, yes I think so
20:19:24 <Wolf01> It's a scale, not a box :P
20:20:13 <Alberth> add a background panel between the rows widget and the scrollbar
20:20:18 <Wolf01> We decided for dashed line and light color exactly to not seem like a box
20:20:49 <andythenorth> also because I couldn’t figure out how to draw tick marks in the rows :)
20:20:52 <andythenorth> maybe I should learn
20:21:30 <Wolf01> DrawString(right, left, y, STR_TICK_MARK)?
20:21:37 <Alberth> W: don't use gray colours that look like box separator :p
20:21:57 <Alberth> nah, just a short vertical line will work
20:22:52 <Wolf01> Currently is 7,1,1 but I would go for 9,1,3
20:23:22 <Alberth> I don't think there is any reason to have them over the entire row, tbh
20:23:48 <Alberth> which then also solves the problem that it can be interpreted as a box
20:23:55 <Wolf01> Yeah, I thought to draw them for each line only for the bottom half
20:24:21 <Alberth> top-half seems to have more open space, at least in the screenshot of andy
20:24:35 <Wolf01> Top half is always covered
20:24:43 * andythenorth patches them in photoshop
20:25:00 <andythenorth> having top AND bottom is very ugly
20:25:15 <andythenorth> logically they should be at bottom, like on a graph/chart axis
20:26:40 <Wolf01> Move the function call into the row drawing function and look if it's better
20:26:46 <andythenorth> and about 25% of height
20:28:03 <Alberth> player only wants to see if train fits on a tile, at the top, you may have a gap due to the wagon shape, you never have a gap at the bottom
20:28:36 <Alberth> but make a function, and it's easy to try both cases
20:30:28 <andythenorth> ach where does it draw the rows :P
20:33:10 <andythenorth> the rows are already drawn when DrawVehicleInDepot() is called
20:40:17 <Eddi|zuHause> uhm... my spaghetti train junction looks a bit like a rollercoaster
20:42:26 <Alberth> could be part of the widget background indeed
20:42:49 <Wolf01> <andythenorth> ach where does it draw the rows :P <- 3 lines below?
20:42:51 <Alberth> but you still need to compute where to draw the train
20:44:07 <Alberth> good point, you get a cb for drawing a widget
20:48:26 <andythenorth> do we need all the tick marks?
20:48:38 <andythenorth> or just to show how far to next integer length?
21:00:38 <Wolf01> Alberth: widget height is resize_y?
21:01:31 <Wolf01> andythenorth: I'm working on show only the scale up to the next integer
21:06:44 <Alberth> no idea, I haven't looked at that code in years
21:07:05 <Alberth> but it might be the unit of vertical resize, so yeah
21:07:54 <Alberth> no doubt code draws each row from some base y position that get incremented
21:09:51 <andythenorth> I guess if you’re just a bit over the previous integer, you want to see how many wagons to remove also
21:33:43 * andythenorth has closed a bunch of FS tickets :P
21:33:49 <andythenorth> slightly cathartic
21:33:59 <andythenorth> “won’t implement"
21:36:16 <andythenorth> there are 792 open though, and a lot I can’t just close ruthlessly :D
21:42:22 <andythenorth> there are certainly duplicates
21:42:28 <andythenorth> it’s tempting to try and find them all :P
21:55:58 <Alberth> vehicle orders need much more detail
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21:58:44 * andythenorth tries to link the duplicates
21:59:53 <andythenorth> FS needs a ‘frequently requested but not implementing’ status :P
22:00:49 <Wolf01> I added some weird states to mine :P
22:00:58 <Eddi|zuHause> that's just a special kind of "duplicate"?
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22:08:15 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: kind of :P
22:08:39 <andythenorth> the theory is (afaict) that we keep open feature requests, even if they can’t / won’t ever be done
22:08:56 <andythenorth> but now FS is overwhelming, and most of it is crap :)
22:09:18 <andythenorth> I keep finding little lost patches in the dungheap
22:09:27 <andythenorth> that may or may not be useful, I can’t tell :)
22:10:25 <Alberth> most people don't search closed tickets
22:10:33 <Alberth> if they search at all
22:14:06 <andythenorth> I reckon logs would show they probably don’t :)
22:16:13 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: i think what you need is categories, not statuses, then
22:16:41 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: i.e. patch/bug/feature request/unreasonable request
22:16:50 <andythenorth> Unmeetable Request
22:17:00 <andythenorth> also all the crash logs :P
22:17:09 <andythenorth> because $someone is diligently reading them, right?
22:19:55 <andythenorth> well I’ve closed about 40 or so tickets :P
22:32:59 <andythenorth> ‘clone n’ comes up a few times
22:33:04 <andythenorth> is it really a big deal?
22:33:23 <andythenorth> I would find it worse to have to enter a number in a box
22:34:22 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: that's like a weaker "template" thing?
22:35:00 <andythenorth> people have actually patched it multiple times
22:41:40 <DorpsGek> andythenorth: 0.0544794188862
22:41:47 <andythenorth> 5% fewer issues :P
22:47:29 <andythenorth> Wolf01: who won, you, or the depot GUI? :D
continue to next day ⏵
