IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2017-08-06
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02:20:41 *** Guest1264 is now known as ToBeFree
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11:22:34 <Wolf01> Another update to space engineers... almost 3 every week... too bad I didn't learn how to play it and wreck everything each time
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11:39:40 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... deciding whether to use metro overhaul mod... seems a bit dicey from the descriptions/comments
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13:47:01 <andythenorth> the theory of making trains all same length
13:47:04 <andythenorth> is only good in theory
13:49:35 <andythenorth> it makes it hard to create difference between generations
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14:14:57 <Wolf01> Make different liveries
14:15:32 <Wolf01> Did you ship the depot patch?
14:36:49 <andythenorth> there’s a lot of that
14:41:23 <andythenorth> ach I really just need to use 10/8
14:41:28 <andythenorth> or change this engine
15:00:24 <andythenorth> crashed ottd, again :P
15:02:25 <LordAro> andythenorth: you should file a bug report
15:03:22 <andythenorth> with all the others in FS? o_O
15:03:37 <andythenorth> “Invalid report: newgrfs changed”
15:03:52 <andythenorth> I don’t know why changing the grfid of a running newgrf causes ottd to crash :(
15:04:29 <LordAro> imo, ottd shouldn't ever be able to crash
15:04:46 <LordAro> might get to say "your game is now unusable, gj"
15:09:07 <andythenorth> it does give me an assert message :)
15:09:11 <andythenorth> except when it locks hard
15:10:25 <Flygon> It's not a crash until the CPU locks up and gives you an illegal instruction warning.
15:10:27 <LordAro> see what it does when NDEBUG is defined :p
15:10:43 <Flygon> Somehow. On a 2017-era CPU.
15:10:59 <LordAro> they do happen from time to time, aiui
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15:59:51 <andythenorth> 4/8 is very short for an engine
16:03:57 <Alberth> useful for re-arranging wagons at a station :)
16:04:20 <Alberth> also, depends on its power :)
16:04:40 <Alberth> or rather, TE, I guess
16:04:45 <andythenorth> it’s unrealistically powerful and can go 85mph :P
16:06:36 <andythenorth> I would rather it was 6/8 long, but I can’t figure out a scheme where that works
16:09:45 <andythenorth> with a 6/8 caboose and 4/8 wagons it would work
16:10:47 <andythenorth> 8/8 wagons not so much
16:11:09 <andythenorth> but 8/8 wagons don’t make an integer length with 4/8 wagon either :P
16:11:14 <andythenorth> so what’s lost? o_O
16:30:02 <Alberth> as I said before, I don't mind different length vehicles :)
16:30:41 <Alberth> consistency is a way to avoid having to consider something
16:31:08 <Alberth> which works great in my experience with stuff you really don't want to think about
16:31:34 <Alberth> creating consistency does need a very good mind, it's very easy to mess up :)
16:32:25 <Alberth> ie, a code style is just for avoiding thinking about code layout and/or useless discussions about it
16:33:04 <Alberth> it also means you can worry about other things instead :p
16:36:50 <andythenorth> because IH is ‘slightly realistic’
16:37:00 <andythenorth> it creates a new game called ‘search google for weird prototypes'
16:37:27 <andythenorth> on balance it might be better to not always have integer lengths :P
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16:59:58 <Alberth> just make a set of cabeese to get to a full tile :p
17:00:34 <andythenorth> that was actually my serious plan :P
17:01:05 <Alberth> make all dual-heads, with the matching caboose, and you're done?
17:01:11 <andythenorth> frosch suggested that :P
17:01:27 <andythenorth> something weird about it
17:01:31 <andythenorth> oh, double-heading
17:01:43 <andythenorth> it breaks for multiple engines on one train
17:03:54 <andythenorth> I might have to do some 10/8 engines too :P
17:04:08 <andythenorth> forcing the big engines to 8/8 or 12/8 is weird
17:04:19 <andythenorth> makes visual progression hard across generations
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17:05:18 <andythenorth> how many restaurant cars on a pax train? o_O
17:10:30 <andythenorth> 10/8 engine, 8/8 coaches, 6/8 observation car :P
17:17:40 <Alberth> what would it observe?
17:24:57 <andythenorth> back of the train :)
17:25:03 <andythenorth> observes pixels :P
17:27:35 <andythenorth> wondering if I can provide a payment bonus if it’s in the train
17:50:41 <Eddi|zuHause> ... i think i fell into a "trying to mod this game"-metagame bottomless pit that ultimately will destroy the game for me
17:52:51 <Eddi|zuHause> no, cities skylines
17:54:32 <andythenorth> “the finest city builder in over a decade.”
17:54:36 * andythenorth doesn’t play games :)
17:54:56 <Eddi|zuHause> it's certainly less crashy than sim city 4
17:55:17 <Eddi|zuHause> and there was no sim city 5
17:56:52 <Eddi|zuHause> where does steam put workshop content?
18:09:02 <Wolf01> Usually in steamapps\workshop
18:09:34 <Wolf01> You need to get the app id to find what you want
18:33:23 * andythenorth researches trains :P
18:35:26 <andythenorth> railway post office coach
18:38:00 <Eddi|zuHause> should i restart the game with vanilla?
18:42:22 <andythenorth> should I keep the combine coach?
18:42:42 <andythenorth> (carries pax and mail simultaneously - fake articulated)
18:52:40 <Alberth> combine was a fun idea, but there are too many passengers :)
18:53:01 <Alberth> ie ratio mail / passengers is way off )
19:00:43 <andythenorth> if I make it actually articulated
19:00:52 <andythenorth> (which is actually realism)
19:01:13 <andythenorth> a 6/8 small engine can go with a 10/8 combine coach for a nice 1 tile train
19:01:29 <andythenorth> and no hidden vehicle stuff needed
19:01:40 <andythenorth> what ratio would be better?
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19:17:39 <andythenorth> payment bonus for mail if a post-office coach is in the train? o_O
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19:47:19 <Alberth> not sure about the ratio, but run aan passenger service between two big towns :)
19:47:54 <Alberth> maybe the passenger / mail ratio is different for small houses vs eg sky scrapers?
19:48:13 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... i moved my water pumps from above the dam to below the dam (because they apparently drive down the effectiveness of the dam), but that flooded some houses next to the dam
19:48:13 <Alberth> I usually serve small towns
19:49:34 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: so post office coach is effectively a dining car for mail?
19:50:31 <Eddi|zuHause> dam output went from 400 to 600kW
19:54:03 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: could be :P
19:54:17 <andythenorth> but I think it would need mail capacity, whereas dining car…wouldn’t
19:54:35 <andythenorth> and if it has capacity AND payment bonus, you’d always use it
19:59:21 <Alberth> payment bonus has no impact on income whatsoever :p You get more than you can spend anyway
19:59:46 <andythenorth> restaurant car seems neat for some reason
20:01:08 <andythenorth> this depot lines patch is really useful :D
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20:08:57 <V453000> that's a nice idea but assumes that the graphics have the right sizes XD
20:09:54 <Eddi|zuHause> maybe i should have looked up what the space elevator does before building it?
20:10:46 <FLHerne> Eddi|zuHause: Something like the dome arcologies in SC2k?
20:11:14 <Eddi|zuHause> FLHerne: it basically spews out hundreds of tourists that need to be transported somewhere
20:11:49 <FLHerne> It actually has real transport logistics?
20:12:10 <FLHerne> I remember SC2k simulating traffic very badly
20:12:18 <Eddi|zuHause> FLHerne: i did build arcologies in sc2k but i have no clue what they actually did, besides hold 10k-ish people
20:12:37 <FLHerne> After a while, they blasted into space and set fire to things
20:12:48 <FLHerne> (only the futuristic dome ones)
20:12:54 <Eddi|zuHause> FLHerne: well, cities skylines is basically a spinoff of cities in motion, so it does have transport stuff builtin :p
20:13:20 <Eddi|zuHause> i have not actually played cities in motion, though
20:13:47 <Eddi|zuHause> FLHerne: uhm, i've never seen that happen
20:16:44 <FLHerne> I used to build big lines of them just too see it happen, it was fairly cool
20:18:28 <FLHerne> Possibly things are more fun when you're 10
20:24:18 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: sc2k is not a game that has aged well
20:26:15 <frosch123> i played sc1 and then tried sc2k where i always failed
20:26:38 <V453000> STARCRAFT 2000 ?!?!?!?!?!??!?!?!? GG
20:26:43 <frosch123> some years ago someone told me that you can just build everything and fund at 5% and everyone will be happy
20:26:50 <Eddi|zuHause> i failed sc1 much more than 2k
20:27:01 <frosch123> i tried and sc2k turned out easy as f
20:27:23 <frosch123> maybe i would have been better at sc2k if i did not know sc1 :p
20:27:28 <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, don't put taxes to 20% :p
20:27:52 <Eddi|zuHause> and don't ever change the road funding setting
20:28:00 <frosch123> V453000: sc:r has more pixels, but still no slugs
20:28:07 <frosch123> or do reavers count as slugs?
20:29:08 <FLHerne> Eh, the way SC2k's balanced has some upsides
20:29:28 <frosch123> V453000: isn't a reaver more like a caterpillar?
20:29:42 <FLHerne> You can balance it and sandbox your perfect city with no stress
20:30:03 <FLHerne> Or deliberately unbalance it, and play around with crisis management
20:30:36 <FLHerne> (perhaps I wouldn't agree now, it's been years since I last played)
20:37:14 <andythenorth> frosch123: do you get notifications about FS changes?
20:37:41 <frosch123> those where i added a comment in 2009
20:37:51 * andythenorth went on a spree :P
20:38:26 <Eddi|zuHause> FLHerne: well the cities skylines monuments are a bit silly in that they reqiure you to mismanage in particular ways, like have high crime rate, or negative money, or lots of abandoned buildings
20:38:29 <andythenorth> I know FS is ultimately a silly game, but it would be nice if it was < 500
20:38:40 <andythenorth> and if 400 of those were people asking for subways, that’s probably fine :P
20:39:25 <frosch123> most recents tasks have fixed by adf attached
20:39:39 <frosch123> i just don't know how to pressure him into committing them himself :p
20:46:42 <andythenorth> I was surprised how many there were
20:46:46 <andythenorth> quite a lot of patches in FS
20:47:08 <frosch123> bug fixes or features?
20:47:23 <andythenorth> possible fixes, small features
20:47:35 <frosch123> i fail to keep up with the fixes
20:47:47 <frosch123> the features are usually meh
20:48:32 <frosch123> like not even using indenting
20:49:17 <frosch123> there more interesting features you will find in juanjo pp etc
20:49:37 <andythenorth> I could go through FS again and find them :P
20:49:58 <frosch123> juanjo stuff you find via forums, or via github meanwhile
20:49:59 <andythenorth> other than applying them myself, I have no way to help review them though :P
20:50:16 <andythenorth> maybe it should be pull requests on github
20:51:45 <frosch123> more spam from more platforms? :p
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20:56:47 * andythenorth hasn’t tested it though
20:57:00 <Eddi|zuHause> tram-avenues need some way to get passenger underpasses :/
21:04:01 <V453000> hand painting might be nice but fuck, is it a lot of work.
21:04:58 <andythenorth> take the same approach to OS X that apple takes: old versions are dead
21:08:56 <frosch123> i thought we only support the old ones :p
21:09:59 <andythenorth> I am on 10.12 Sierra :P
21:10:10 <andythenorth> and it builds clean out of the box (after getting deps)
21:10:11 <Eddi|zuHause> depends on what you call "support", i guess?
21:10:24 <andythenorth> Mavericks is 10.9
21:11:53 <andythenorth> what I’m unsure of is whether all the patches Michi wanted tested were committed
21:16:21 <V453000> btw andythenorth I think I will just finish the painting nutjob and after I will do the trains
21:16:31 <V453000> fuck any other ideas for now
21:16:34 <andythenorth> when will you do the ships? o_O
21:16:40 <V453000> by the painting it gets to kind of stable state
21:16:56 <V453000> don't plan ships soon but maybe
21:19:22 <V453000> can just take some trains and scale them up
21:19:37 <V453000> that actually sounds awfully close to what I might do XD
21:22:14 <V453000> maybe that's the RIGHT way to do ships
21:45:34 <andythenorth> if it was easily triggered, it would be reported a lot more eh?
21:53:27 <andythenorth> FS bugs is not a rewarding game :P
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