IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2017-07-28
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09:05:05 <Ox7C5> Hi, I recently downloaded Openttd to run on a Linux server. I downloaded the 1.7.1 archive but when I run it, the server says it's 1.6.1, any ideas on what could be wrong?
09:15:12 <Alberth> are you sure you have the same executable?
09:16:00 <Eddi|zuHause> are you sure you're running what you downloaded?
09:16:20 <Alberth> (if you start it by typing openttd )
09:16:53 <Eddi|zuHause> you might have installed an older version from a system repo
09:18:19 <Ox7C5> I basicly had 2 fresh systems, 1 Win and 1 Linux. I went to download the latest files from openttd.org and extracted from there. No older versions to confuse me. The readme on Linux also says 1.7.1
09:20:51 <Alberth> how do you start the program?
09:21:24 <Ox7C5> Additionally, if I start the game as though I would play it on the Linux box, it starts a 1.7.1 window, but as soon as I start it with -D, it starts a 1.6.1
09:22:10 <Ox7C5> Usually just cd into the folder and write openttd
09:22:38 <Alberth> what does "which openttd" say ?
09:23:19 <Ox7C5> It just outputs /usr/games/openttd
09:23:31 <Alberth> what does "pwd" say ?
09:24:17 <Ox7C5> /home/username/Downloads/openttd
09:24:49 <Alberth> is /usr/games/openttd and /home/username/Downloads/openttd/openttd the same executable?
09:25:06 <Alberth> try writing "./openttd"
09:25:21 <Alberth> ie "run the openttd program in this directory"
09:26:00 <Alberth> otherwise it uses the PATH variable for finding a program, which typically does NOT include the current directory "."
09:26:22 <Ox7C5> Huh, so that seems to have fixed the issue. It now loaded a 1.7.1 server
09:26:34 <Ox7C5> So I've messed up somewhere
09:26:52 <Alberth> being in a directory has no meaning in starting a binary
09:27:08 <Alberth> it's a safety measure
09:27:46 <Alberth> you have a 1.6.1 install in /usr/games, most likely from your package manager
09:28:15 <Ox7C5> That might be it. Thanks for the help, I should be able to fix it now
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09:42:28 <Ox7C5> Yep, everything is now working as intended and I am having fun :D
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11:48:15 <peter1138> fun? that sounds wrong
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11:49:14 <__ln__> we don't tolerate fun around here
12:06:24 <Alkel_U3> fun comes from Dwarf Fortress
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15:01:47 <crem> In youtube videos explaining something, people usually record voiceover, and then draw all animation, etc. Right?
15:14:23 <Flygon> They record first, commentate, then edit.
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16:50:38 <andythenorth_> 4/8 is really very short for engines
16:55:53 <andythenorth_> Time to do maths
16:56:48 <crem> As far as I remember the math, 4/8 can be reduced to 2/4.
16:58:24 <DorpsGek> andythenorth_: 0.1875
16:58:39 <andythenorth_> Probably 0.2 in game
16:58:57 <DorpsGek> andythenorth_: 0.375
17:06:08 <supermop> set length based on random callback
17:06:16 <supermop> hmm what happened at home i wonder
17:07:20 <supermop> andy would know all those calcs if he were an architect who had to work in feet & inches in CAD
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17:16:21 <andythenorth_> Unless I do pure 8/8, integer length trains are a problem :p
17:18:07 <supermop> trains need a little extra platform length, otherwise your drivers union is going to complain about having to always brake to stop with no leeway
17:19:50 <andythenorth_> It's very untidy
17:23:20 <andythenorth_> How do I make integer length from 5/8 or 6/8?
17:23:32 <andythenorth_> 5/8 must be the worst choice
17:25:07 <andythenorth_> 1 engine, 7 wagons
17:25:58 <andythenorth_> Also TL 6 hits an integer
17:27:11 <Alberth> 5/8 -> 40/8, ie 5 tiles
17:27:46 <andythenorth_> I keep making that mistake
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17:29:28 <andythenorth_> 6/8 + (5 * 4/8) + 6/8
17:29:56 <andythenorth_> 6/8 engine, 6/8 caboose
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17:33:17 <andythenorth_> I need to draw some stuff I guess, as tests
17:33:35 <andythenorth_> RH has lots of 4/8 tram engines & wagons
17:33:43 <andythenorth_> But trams look small
17:34:10 <andythenorth_> afk currently, no pixels :p
17:40:13 <supermop> i haven't touched tram pixels in like 3 weeks
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17:56:15 <andythenorth_> Hmm 4/8 works for super chibi engines :p
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18:45:24 <andythenorth_> Or even shorter, alliwing that chibi compresses length
18:46:59 <andythenorth_> There's a 4/8 train in original ttd
18:48:32 <Alkel_U3> the arctic one? It still occupies 8/8 length, much to my dismay when I tried to couple them together, I think
18:49:33 <Alkel_U3> that was back when I just discovered ttdpatch and learned how to use the electric locos in the arcticset
18:51:09 <Alkel_U3> yeah, just checked, the length is the same in openttd (which makes sense)
18:51:51 <andythenorth_> Gap at the front?
18:52:10 <Alkel_U3> yeah, when you put two of them together it looks like it's being towed on a long rope
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19:03:22 <andythenorth_> What is the point of small trains?
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19:04:21 <andythenorth_> genuine question, need to make desigb choices
19:05:22 <Alkel_U3> well, they look good early on and on low-duty feeders
19:06:56 <Alkel_U3> appart from that, it's usually not really that inconvenient to just build an extra tile on the platform
19:08:25 <andythenorth_> they only make sense to me if they're unrealistically fast
19:08:35 <andythenorth_> Otherwise use bus or tram
19:09:10 <andythenorth_> I always build some in my games... but only because I like using the vehicles
19:09:58 <Alkel_U3> I use a lot of trucks and cargo trams in my games but sometimes it's just... nicer to build :-)
19:10:38 <Alkel_U3> but I can't count many instances where it actually was the more profitable thing to do
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19:20:02 <andythenorth_> what length should a viable small train be? 1 tile? 2?
19:20:16 <andythenorth_> for example, pax & mail
19:21:19 <frosch123> stations shorter than 3 tiles look weird
19:22:14 <andythenorth_> at 1 tile, use a bus, tram
19:22:56 <frosch123> short trains have a higher frequency
19:23:05 <andythenorth_> If I make the shortest engines 8/8 things get interesting
19:23:08 <frosch123> which makes them better suitable for low cargo amounts
19:23:30 <andythenorth_> means no small switcher/shunter engines
19:23:45 <frosch123> were those ever more than eyecandy?
19:24:04 <andythenorth_> in theory they're viable in IH
19:24:46 <andythenorth_> but they could be 8/8 without it looking bad
19:25:09 <andythenorth_> I can do a bigger engine chibi, which will still look nice
19:25:26 <frosch123> i remember the first time playing with ukrs
19:25:50 <frosch123> it were all steam engines, and then the first diesel appeared called "shunter"
19:26:17 <andythenorth_> it's not much of an upgrade :)
19:26:19 <frosch123> i did not know the word, and started autoreplace
19:26:30 <frosch123> only to discover that vehciles were suddenly stuck at 15 km/h
19:26:40 <andythenorth_> surprised pikka didn't call it Gronk
19:27:33 <frosch123> i don't know about their purpose to date :)
19:27:53 <andythenorth_> In game, zero purpose :)
19:28:41 <supermop> i've used them as a pig in a yard
19:28:58 <andythenorth_> if I make all engines 8/8 for 'normal' there's a better contrast with narrow gauge
19:29:07 <andythenorth_> Well 8/8 or 12/8
19:29:40 <supermop> even as pigs, they aren't that practical
19:30:35 <supermop> IH little bear makes a decent pig. IH NG ends up being too long
19:31:13 <supermop> though i use little bear for 3 and 4 TL trains all the time
19:31:50 <andythenorth_> that's what it's for :)
19:32:24 <andythenorth_> IH originates 50% in my attempt to get pikka to add something like little bear to ukrs 2
19:32:42 <andythenorth_> His response was pineapple and even fewer trains :)
19:36:11 <supermop> little bear is useful for like 90% of the trains i run for 90% of the timeframe i play
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19:44:07 <supermop> i wish i had the room to build an N-scale tramway
19:44:41 <supermop> i assume model trams just have regular train flanged wheels
19:45:04 <supermop> so idk if they would really work with grooved track and tram points
19:45:42 <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r27892 trunk/src/lang/finnish.txt (2017-07-28 19:45:36 +0200 )
19:45:44 <DorpsGek> finnish: 41 changes by USephiroth
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19:54:18 <andythenorth_> Such many train lengths :p
20:01:11 <andythenorth_> If I scaled a standard uk coach at 8/8
20:01:30 <andythenorth_> Many wagons would be 3/8 at realistic scale
20:09:02 <Alkel_U3> but the autoreplace hell...
20:10:18 <Alkel_U3> it was enough that pineapple has this freight double loco (2*'8/8') and for continued performance needs to be replaced by two newer single engines
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20:40:18 <supermop> 3/8 looks more british
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20:45:56 <Alkel_U3> has there ever been a game which implements loading gauges?
20:46:19 <Alkel_U3> well, builders, not simulators
20:55:18 <supermop> you'd need some means of having a choice as to how far apart tracks are etc, and give player the ability to build rail that trains cannot actually traverse
20:55:30 <supermop> probably no commercial market for it
20:56:53 <supermop> would be interesting, but it really just becomes a civil engineering game at that point, and from the civil engineers in my family i can assume that the last thing they want to do after modelling complext infrastructure all day, is to model complex infrastructure for fun
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22:16:00 <supermop> I guess i'll chop up ogfx trams and use those
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22:18:02 <V453000> people voluntarily reusing ogfx for grfs ._.
22:18:36 <supermop> this grf started out as an attempt to improve ogfx+rvs
22:23:24 <V453000> in today's news: brix is still being a fucking pain
22:23:38 <V453000> we will observe this delicate topic further
22:31:18 <Eddi|zuHause> maybe improve brix by incorporating opengfx then? :p
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22:33:07 <andythenorth_> Except sometimes 6/8
22:33:24 <V453000> yeah that wouldn't help much Eddi ;)
22:33:30 <andythenorth_> And don't use those vehicles if you're obsessed by integer lengths :p
22:33:42 <andythenorth_> And what eddi said
22:34:45 * andythenorth_ puzzled by numeratora and denominators :p
22:35:02 <Eddi|zuHause> fun fact, the number 666 (in the current meaning) is much older than the notation in "arabic" numerals
22:35:02 <andythenorth_> How many 1/16 is 8/8??
22:35:43 <Eddi|zuHause> a full tile is a length of 16 steps
22:35:55 <andythenorth_> Apoarently the pricing of the Apple 1 at 666.66 was nothing to do with number of the beast
22:36:13 <andythenorth_> It's a woz thiing for repeating digira
22:36:37 <Eddi|zuHause> in german we call this "Schnapszahl"
22:36:58 <andythenorth_> 33% markup on $500
22:36:58 <Eddi|zuHause> (typically 3 of the same digit)
22:37:19 <Eddi|zuHause> it's basically an old drinking game :p
22:37:22 <andythenorth_> Seems very ttd ish
22:38:04 <andythenorth_> Balancing often hangs on specific ratios eh
22:38:53 <V453000> also andy wins, no wooden shit
22:38:59 <andythenorth_> Also 666 was apparently hebrew code for 'nero' and nothing to do with actual satan
22:40:00 <andythenorth_> V I knew if I left you to it, you'd argue yourself out of it
22:40:23 <andythenorth_> Wood alone isn't pleasing in game
22:40:31 <andythenorth_> Would be uncanny valley
22:40:50 <andythenorth_> I'd work backwards from the trains you showed
22:41:09 <andythenorth_> They are best train sprites ever
22:41:26 <V453000> that makes too much sense
22:41:35 <V453000> now I am rushing towards 0.0.2 of BRIX
22:41:44 <andythenorth_> Swe could literally make an ios/android casual train game with them for $$$€€€¥¥££
22:41:45 <V453000> just applying photoshop postproduction I did before and adding noise
22:42:01 <V453000> doing them trains could be nice
22:42:08 <andythenorth_> Trains are winning
22:42:31 <andythenorth_> Call it 'train collector' :p
22:42:45 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth_: well, but probably not actual nero, but a mythically exaggerated version of nero as the impersonation of all evil that happened to early christianity
22:43:38 <Eddi|zuHause> like every supposedly "evil" person now is "hitler"
22:45:16 <V453000> just random noise but it makes a huge difference
22:45:29 <V453000> want to publish this before I dive into doing it properly, if ever I do that even
22:45:51 <V453000> most of the trees will change they are too inconsistent but eh, eventually
22:48:05 <Eddi|zuHause> grass is a tiny bit too noisy i think
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22:54:58 <andythenorth_> v anything but ogfx :p
22:55:30 <andythenorth_> ogfx is an achievement, I couldn't have replaced the whole baseset
22:55:54 <V453000> honestly the more time I spend on BRIX the more I don't understand how could zephyris have made zbase in 300hrs
22:55:58 <andythenorth_> But it's not even close to TTD sprites
22:56:18 <V453000> ogfx I can imagine drawing it all
22:56:34 <andythenorth_> and most new players never realise what the original was, or how perfect
22:56:40 <V453000> but yeah when I realise what flaws it has, ... :)
22:57:05 <V453000> the world is going to shit undoubtedly
22:57:10 <V453000> this is one of the major signs
23:09:05 <supermop> if I can just bring myself to draw 6 'faces' of trams i'll be set
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23:35:15 <Eddi|zuHause> "faces" as in directions of view, or as in thomas the tank engine?
23:40:32 <V453000> I'm hoping for the other
23:44:50 <supermop> if it was 3d id have already done it
23:45:13 <supermop> faces as in the plastic/fiberglass cab end
23:45:50 <supermop> I can just iterate a generic window segment for the bodies
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