IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2017-07-27
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16:51:29 <peter1138> is andythenorth_ yet?
16:53:06 <Wolf01> \o/ another bank account opened, I have so many money a single bank can't handle them
16:53:29 <Wolf01> I used the tunnel money bug in real life
16:53:53 <Wolf01> Just kidding, I'm moving from one bank to another :P
16:55:16 <__ln__> you have not just one but two banks in italy?
16:56:11 <Wolf01> My target is to get all of them
16:57:57 <andythenorth_> My banks kept buying each other
16:58:20 <andythenorth_> I started with 7 or so and finished with 3
17:00:03 <andythenorth_> What capacity should freight wagons be?
17:00:17 <andythenorth_> (3 or 4 generations)
17:00:36 <andythenorth_> Wrong answer :)
17:00:50 <andythenorth_> It's about train length
17:00:55 <Wolf01> I think they must change capacity based on the length of the train and type of engine attached
17:01:20 <Wolf01> And air drag if you can get the value right
17:01:45 <andythenorth_> Reduce capacity by 10% for every n+1 wagon?
17:01:58 <Wolf01> Yeah, samu would be happy
17:03:03 <andythenorth_> There is a train in canada with a canoe wagon
17:03:51 <Alberth> bicycles travel with their owners, here
17:06:32 <andythenorth_> freight wagons should match RV capacities? Or be higher?
17:06:38 <andythenorth_> Realism says higher
17:07:08 <andythenorth_> But really it's a visual choice about how long trains should be
17:07:33 <Alberth> and how many RVs you have
17:07:43 <andythenorth_> Anyone got savegames nearby? o_O
17:07:56 <peter1138> i mean bikes on the road :p
17:08:01 <peter1138> holding up all the buses
17:08:07 <peter1138> running red lights etc
17:08:09 * andythenorth_ needs some typical train lengths and capacities
17:08:26 <peter1138> typical things all cyclists do
17:08:33 <andythenorth_> Peter they'd get stuck in the tram tracks, very dangerous
17:08:48 <andythenorth_> Needs roadtypes to prevent that :p
17:10:37 <andythenorth_> would need to add red lights so they could run them
17:11:28 <Alberth> I wonder if it would be fun to have 2-3 engines (of one type-ish, but from not-so-good to very-good) available for a period in the grf, and pick one based on random
17:11:47 <Alberth> that defeats the idea you can wait for the next gen engine which is much better
17:13:10 <Alberth> "pick one" as in "pick one model"
17:13:51 <Alberth> if you play again, you may get a different model
17:18:59 <supermop> Alberth: i've always wanted that
17:19:17 <supermop> also random names, but been told that's not possible
17:19:28 <Wolf01> Make it so longer is the wagon, less it can carry
17:19:59 <Alberth> inverrse proportional to the length :p
17:20:37 <Alberth> random stats are almost the same but not entirely, ie you'd always get the same engine, but it may or may not be useless
17:20:59 <Alberth> if you get a different model, the engine can also have a different shape / size
17:21:34 <Alberth> supermop: make several models, and enable one of them should work, I think
17:22:39 <supermop> composite sprites for engine cab and body, so it always looks different?
17:23:05 <peter1138> does NRT include a spec for traffic lights/ :p
17:23:25 <supermop> welcome to add one peter1138
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17:25:30 <andythenorth_> I've considered randomised stats many times
17:25:49 <andythenorth_> But eh I think it would just annoy me :)
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17:26:31 <andythenorth_> Peter1138 NRT doesn't _exclude_ traffic lights
17:26:36 <Wolf01> Then you might get a perfect stats, but you missed a grf, you get angry and never play again
17:26:41 <andythenorth_> Want to add them?
17:27:10 <andythenorth_> What would they do?
17:27:17 <peter1138> i still have touched anything in the big patch queues despite saying i would :(
17:27:21 <peter1138> andythenorth_, be annoying
17:27:56 <andythenorth_> seems 95% pointless ;)
17:28:21 <peter1138> but it's needed for cyclists to run
17:28:30 <Wolf01> I think you can already do it with newobjects
17:28:49 <peter1138> do we have vr support yet?
17:28:54 <peter1138> maybe i should get a rift and add it
17:28:59 <andythenorth_> Might look nice in night mode too
17:29:11 <andythenorth_> I had a go on VR
17:29:18 <andythenorth_> Surprisingly good
17:29:40 <andythenorth_> Not OR, apparently it has lag that makes you sick
17:29:52 <Wolf01> Yeah, I played minecraft with the oculus, but I'm more oriented towards the hololens
17:30:13 <peter1138> lag only if your pc is not 5 seconds old
17:30:38 <andythenorth_> I had a go on the thing where you put a phone in a headset
17:31:47 <andythenorth_> What capacity is a bike then?
17:33:45 <Wolf01> Depends from the country, I won't load more than 10kg (+me) on my bike, but in India or other places where they use bikes for almost everything you can load even 500kg
17:40:12 <andythenorth_> And what about trains? 200t?
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18:58:57 <andythenorth_> 400t trains? o_O
19:00:09 <Wolf01> Why not drop real unit measuring systems and go full fictional?
19:00:33 <Wolf01> "this wagon loads a lot of stuff"
19:01:14 <andythenorth_> random per vehicle?
19:01:46 <andythenorth_> Lots of casual games use 'random' for progression
19:02:09 <andythenorth_> Except I think often it's not random at all :p
19:02:41 <andythenorth_> The actual question is "what's a nice train length"
19:03:48 <Wolf01> Suggest disabling bigger stations, and play with 5 tiles max
19:03:48 <andythenorth_> 20t at 5/8 makes for trains that are relatively long
19:04:26 <Wolf01> And make everything 8/8
19:04:58 <andythenorth_> I'm using 4/8 and 8/8
19:05:31 <andythenorth_> 75t at 10/8 makes for relatively short trains
19:06:06 <andythenorth_> a train should leave an industry every month or so?
19:06:23 <andythenorth_> And inustries produce around 180t
19:06:28 <Wolf01> Too much info, I just want to play
19:06:41 <andythenorth_> And optimum train length is 5 or 6
19:07:35 <andythenorth_> That suggests 20t at 8/8
19:07:57 <andythenorth_> V453000 advices
19:08:41 <andythenorth_> 40t works nicely for trucks
19:08:41 <Wolf01> I usually make 7 tiles stations, with trains slightly shorter than 6 tiles (I like to see some unused track, with trains stopping in the middle of the platform)
19:09:53 <andythenorth_> With FIRS I want about 8 or 9 tiles for a gung-ho industry
19:10:29 <andythenorth_> That suggests 40t pretty nicely
19:11:55 <andythenorth_> Or 45t or 48t or 50t
19:13:08 <andythenorth_> Hmm 2 kinds of wagons? Fast 40t, slow 60t?
19:13:15 <andythenorth_> Boring distinction?
19:15:35 <andythenorth_> wat is correct amount?
19:16:04 <V453000> I consider 5 tiles to be kind of average standard yeah
19:16:13 <V453000> but 3 is preferred often by expert players
19:16:39 <andythenorth_> single piece flow
19:16:40 <V453000> idk, I think 60t capacity is boring with small mines but if you have other alternatives I guess it's not that bad
19:17:15 <V453000> btw I think I finally found the true visual identity of BRIX
19:17:28 <V453000> soo need to release 0.0.2 ASAP so I can rework it all again
19:17:55 <V453000> I was migrating it from max to blender and it's quite a bit of work for complex objects like rails or bridges
19:18:02 <andythenorth_> One day V, we will both stop figuring out 'ultimate x'
19:18:05 <V453000> so might as well do some redesigning
19:18:10 <andythenorth_> But we might be dead
19:18:19 <V453000> yeah that's about when I think
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19:19:19 <andythenorth_> so early generations are easy
19:20:47 <andythenorth_> Gen 4: more capacity, or faster?
19:21:05 <andythenorth_> RH gen 4 is faster
19:21:55 <V453000> honestly I don't have enough knowledge about RH to tell you that, I don't think it is only about general rule of thumb but about the design of the set
19:22:00 <V453000> also I sent you ay message :P
19:22:55 <V453000> phone doesn't do PM? :D
19:23:26 <V453000> meh then ... [19:19] <V453000> concept be this https://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/8506/tiling-test.png ... with textures, many details and stuff, but in general it's going to be bricks of stuff fit in "land sockets" [19:20] <V453000> it has many reasons I realized, like needing grid, slope visibility, visual interest, and general problems with OpenTTD rails/stuff and tiling problems
19:25:34 <V453000> more like true toys :)
19:39:27 * andythenorth_ has horrible idea
19:39:38 <andythenorth_> Refits that trade capacity for speed
19:41:59 <Alberth> nuts does that with train length :)
19:42:20 <Alberth> short fast trains or long slow trains
19:45:57 <andythenorth_> Maybe it works in nuts
19:46:07 <andythenorth_> But it's mathematically daft
19:46:24 <andythenorth_> Net throughput per tile will be roughly same
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19:48:52 <andythenorth_> 60t wagons demand "high axle load" railtype? o_O
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19:50:16 * andythenorth_ considers all options :p
19:56:32 <Alberth> didn't the same andy say recently that a single type was enough ? :)
20:00:04 <andythenorth_> Strictly I've already done axle load
20:00:21 <andythenorth_> I just called it 'normal' and 'narrow gauge'
20:02:12 <andythenorth_> Hmm by time gen 4 comes, 'faster' is preferable
20:02:26 <andythenorth_> No need to mess with train lengths
20:02:46 <Alberth> Did you actually try the Villages is Villages script? It seems to match your "provide cargo to towns" idea
20:03:01 <andythenorth_> I played a game with it
20:03:26 <andythenorth_> Can't remember my opinion, except it wasn't bad
20:03:32 <Alberth> faster is always preferable, but depending on train load and freight multiplier that translates to different things :)
20:07:45 <Wolf01> * andythenorth_ has horrible idea <- I had the horrible idea to resurrect my brickland too
20:12:57 <andythenorth_> In 1 year's time I will declare 4/8 and 8/8 a ridiculous constraint, right?
20:13:18 <andythenorth_> and restore arbitrary lengths?
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20:17:10 <andythenorth_> fixing ~all trams to 16/8 in road hog worked brilliantly
20:17:37 <andythenorth_> But the truck lengths vary a little more, according to what looks good
20:17:58 <Eddi|zuHause> months? you mean weeks?
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20:44:38 <Eddi|zuHause> dear cities skylines, why won't you let me have a tram stop and a bus stop at the same place?
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20:57:01 <NGC3982> Eddi|zuHause: i hate that.
20:57:22 <NGC3982> do we love cities skylines so much just because sim city was so bad?
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20:59:07 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't know, i skipped that
20:59:56 <Alkel_U3> last SC I played was 3000, that one was still pretty ok IMHO
21:00:23 <Eddi|zuHause> played sim city 4 a lot, but it was a bit crashy
21:00:27 <Eddi|zuHause> with no autosave
21:02:57 <Alkel_U3> I'm more appaled by C:S not being able to understand I want the cycling/pedestrian path level, not full of ridges and 800% inclines when building next to houses or other infrastructure
21:03:40 <Alkel_U3> it's missing something like what that last update of Train fever seems to have
21:05:21 <NGC3982> youre on to something cap'n.
21:06:32 <NGC3982> i have about a thousand hours in cs, and i like everything about the dlc so far (at least for what it costs). but im with you, i often get irritated when i cannot micro manage service vehicles, bikes and such.
21:07:32 <NGC3982> they have been very frequent on the subreddit, and they told us that they really liked the road managing mods, even stating that they wanted to contact the creators for compensation if you implemented it.
21:08:22 <NGC3982> but they have yet to do that, and im patiantly waiting for the day i can force <type> into <lane> and <event> when <stuff happends>.
21:08:53 <Alkel_U3> fortunately I have many other games to play in the meantime :-)
21:09:35 <Alkel_U3> heck, I still haven't even finished XCOM
21:09:57 <Alkel_U3> or Dwarf Fortress, but that's a different story
21:10:54 <NGC3982> factorio was too good. :(
21:11:16 <NGC3982> i played it once and experienced everything, and after that there was no need to play anymore.
21:11:55 <Wolf01> <Alkel_U3> it's missing something like what that last update of Train fever seems to have <- road waypoints?
21:15:35 <Alkel_U3> oh wait, I meant transport fever
21:15:59 <Eddi|zuHause> same thing, really
21:16:04 <Wolf01> It's the same, transport fever is an updated train fever
21:17:20 <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, might as well have been a (paid) dlc
21:18:24 <Eddi|zuHause> anyway, i quite like cities skylines, but some things are just a tiny bit annoying... like when road building snaps to a thing you don't want it to snap
21:18:48 <Eddi|zuHause> only mod i use so far is a traffic manager thing where i can forbid left turns and stuff
21:19:15 <Eddi|zuHause> but i think i need one with a bigger train station next
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21:27:44 <Alkel_U3> I quite like how C:S forced me to upgrade RAM to 12 GiB (from 6) - has been usefull since then
21:31:57 <Wolf01> Strange format you have...
21:34:12 <Alkel_U3> are you refering to the amount of RAM not being a power of two or it being written in gibibytes?
21:36:05 <Alkel_U3> oh. Well, I started out at 2*2 and always just swapped the smaller module for a twice as big one
21:38:08 <Alkel_U3> I was thinking about leveling it to 16 but the prices of RAM more than doubled since I last purchased that 8GiB one (that was under 20 EUR)
21:41:15 <Wolf01> Time to purchase a new rig with cheap ram :P
21:44:26 <Eddi|zuHause> i once had a computer with 1GB ram which ran fine, then i upgraded to one with 4GB, and it was immediately too little
21:44:36 <Eddi|zuHause> i upgraded to 12GB later
21:44:53 <Eddi|zuHause> where the 8GB upgrade cost about half as much as the original 4GB
21:45:58 <Eddi|zuHause> hmz... now i'm stuck trying to connect two parallel tracks...
21:50:49 <Eddi|zuHause> wow, that looks terrible
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21:54:20 <andythenorth_> Eddi|zuHause nah, it's definitely months
21:54:34 <andythenorth_> commit rate isn't that high
21:54:53 <andythenorth_> Takes time to discover why latest bright idea sucks :p
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22:00:30 <Eddi|zuHause> didn't we have a "bot" once that kicked people who mistakenly post coop commands here? :p
22:01:42 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... despite all the covfefe, my trains still deadlock
22:02:29 <Eddi|zuHause> and i definitely need a bigger station
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22:33:48 <glx> <Eddi|zuHause> didn't we have a "bot" once that kicked people who mistakenly post coop commands here? :p <-- not a bot, me, but I don't have all commands in the script ;)
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23:08:48 <Eddi|zuHause> glx: yeah, i did put the "" deliberately :p
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