IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2017-07-04
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09:00:22 <V453000> just a quick little test from weekend, felt like sharing :)
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11:07:38 <Alkel_U3> what, the good ones were already taken
11:08:09 <Wolf01> Some money just flew away... car day (insurance, fuel, test) :|
11:18:32 <Wolf01> So, is there some Alkel for F?
11:19:44 <Alkel_U3> Not before there is some Breakfast for A
11:19:59 <Alkel_U3> (I pretty much just got up)
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11:26:25 <V453000> just a small and dirty test from weekend :)
11:28:14 <andythenorth> dunno why you bother
11:28:54 * andythenorth has 3 tubs of slugs in the garden
11:29:00 <andythenorth> beer attracts slugs
11:29:10 <andythenorth> all slugs must die
11:30:27 <V453000> I feel like making some slugs lately
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11:30:50 <andythenorth> not sure about FIRS docs, bit shit
11:31:00 <andythenorth> pixels are awesome obviously
11:31:06 <andythenorth> but the docs… :P
11:31:19 <V453000> if they aren't awesome then they need more pixels?
11:31:23 <andythenorth> file:///Users/andy2/Documents/OTTD_graphics/FIRS/firs/docs/html/economies.html#temperate_basic
11:31:29 <andythenorth> that’s not the internet
11:31:35 <andythenorth> unless I fucked up my firewall :P
11:32:00 <andythenorth> doing proper responsive design, instead of shit responsive design
11:32:22 <andythenorth> I dropped the picture of the industry in the header :(
11:32:27 <andythenorth> compare news.bbc.co.uk
11:32:30 <V453000> what do you mean resnponsive?
11:32:45 <andythenorth> make the window smaller, you’ll see
11:32:59 <andythenorth> grid changes at breakpoints
11:33:20 <V453000> no picture in header is gay
11:33:36 <V453000> Get started = wall of text
11:33:43 <andythenorth> get started is awful
11:33:48 <V453000> need to attract the customers to make big $$$$
11:33:50 <andythenorth> I got bored and fixed economies instead
11:34:00 <andythenorth> maybe I need some new art
11:34:12 <andythenorth> not just the industry images on the grid
11:34:38 <V453000> industry images on the grid are consistent with what the thing is :)
11:35:00 <V453000> random fillers are useless
11:35:09 <V453000> you have so many of them after all
11:35:50 <andythenorth> could put two or three side by side
11:35:59 <V453000> /me should stfu since his nuts wiki is a fucking mess too
11:36:00 <andythenorth> or I could annotate
11:36:11 <andythenorth> “Deliver coal here"
11:36:30 <andythenorth> or like a blue print
11:36:34 <andythenorth> blue prints are always good
11:36:38 <andythenorth> or the concept art?
11:37:14 <andythenorth> and even from this year, recent ones too
11:37:21 <andythenorth> concept art -> finished picture?
11:37:30 <andythenorth> bit internal to me, not really what you play
11:37:42 <V453000> could be nice to use on some page :)
11:38:01 <andythenorth> some big screenshot maybe?
11:38:08 <V453000> bug: changelog page is too long
11:40:09 <andythenorth> shows value for money
11:40:19 <V453000> changelog is very nice for people who just want to see what up
11:40:25 <V453000> I should have made that too
11:40:31 <V453000> but well, fuck it now :D
11:43:33 <andythenorth> V453000 what is user need to see pictures in header?
11:43:48 <andythenorth> but just gets in way of words, no?
11:44:09 <Wolf01> Mmmh, the biter's nation is attacking
11:45:26 <V453000> with that idea you could say every picture gets in the way of words, no? :P
11:45:39 <andythenorth> sometimes the words get in the way of the pictures
11:46:12 <andythenorth> refresh and shit
11:46:27 <V453000> idk I feel like people nowadays are so lazy to read that you need to constantly catch their attention with pictures at like each paragraph before they get attention from they facebookwitterstagramwhateverelse
11:46:48 <andythenorth> docs should notify you a lot
11:46:55 <andythenorth> why doesn’t openttd have notifications?
11:46:59 <V453000> idk does it need all 3 of them? :D 1 would be enough
11:47:02 <andythenorth> preferably on all my devices
11:47:07 <andythenorth> 1 looks shit layout
11:47:21 <andythenorth> “your train has arrived”
11:47:25 <andythenorth> we need that stuff
11:47:27 <V453000> put slug factory there then
11:47:27 <andythenorth> and a daily event
11:48:11 <andythenorth> unique header per page?
11:48:22 <andythenorth> like, a monocolour crop of a cargoflow for economies
11:48:30 <andythenorth> and concept art -> pixels for changelog
11:48:37 <V453000> I'd just use a different industry for each page
11:48:46 <andythenorth> javascript innit
11:48:48 <V453000> kind of like I use thumbnails for my shit
11:49:10 <V453000> random is fine if you want to keep text important
11:49:23 <V453000> otherwise each image immediately becomes "related" to the category/header
11:49:32 <V453000> not like it matters much probably
11:49:43 <V453000> bigger problem is not having slug farms
11:51:21 <andythenorth> how do you know not secret slug farm?
11:51:36 <V453000> /me immediately starts playing OpenTTD
11:54:24 <Alkel_U3> Wolf01: ready to launch
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11:55:39 <Alkel_U3> so where do I connect again?
11:56:38 <Wolf01> It might take a bit with my poor 320kpbs up
11:56:46 <Alkel_U3> oh, right, xDSL uplink :(
11:57:02 <Alkel_U3> want me to host it on my VPS for you?
11:57:35 <Alkel_U3> or has the connectivity cleared up since last time? :-)
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11:58:18 <Alkel_U3> I just hope the horriblelags from last time will not be there
12:24:56 <Deactivated> I ain't see wolfolo's game wolf01
12:25:30 <Deactivated> having probs with getting to master svr I guess?
12:25:54 <Wolf01> Some people already connected, but with more than 1 client I lag too much
12:26:24 <Deactivated> so as a result of the lag data to the svr just breaks?
12:26:36 <Deactivated> *data to the master svr
12:27:35 <Wolf01> Aren't you trying to connect to factorio with ottd, are you?
12:28:21 <Deactivated> alright so I guess I'm out
12:29:01 <Deactivated> oh god pls dun...
12:29:04 <Deactivated> break my connection
12:29:35 <Deactivated> no welcome svr LOAD
12:29:57 <Deactivated> wheew 18 seconds connection lost when I joined
12:31:05 <Deactivated> toyland... ok I take that
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12:43:07 <Wolf01> Alkel_U3: I'm updating my ubuntu and then get something for lunch, I should come back in a bunch of minutes
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13:06:24 <Alkel_U3> Wolf01: I can't make it visible and don't know why. It's just reachable on alkel.info
13:12:50 <Wolf01> Mmmh, how do I extract a xz archive? gzip doesn't seem to like it
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13:33:27 <debdog> the archive might be broken
13:42:32 <Wolf01> Uhm, maybe I did somethinf wrong with the symlink, ls shows every file, the autocomplete instead finds only folders
13:45:38 <debdog> autocompletion of which command?
13:47:12 <debdog> well, behaviour might change per command
13:48:39 <Wolf01> Tar doesn't seem to see files
13:49:53 <debdog> it should only see files which end with proper archive file extensions
13:50:32 <debdog> (or tar's autocompletion definition is broken)
13:51:03 <Alkel_U3> so, are you dealing with xz or tar.xz file?
13:51:28 <Wolf01> I usually download tar.gz
13:52:11 <Wolf01> (is the factorio headless, btw)
13:53:11 <Alkel_U3> did you try giving tar -J argument? (for xz archive)
13:53:16 <debdog> hmm, works nicely here
13:53:48 <__ln__> Wolf01: if you say z to tar, it means you claim it is indeed a gzip archive.
13:54:19 <Alkel_U3> "tar -xJf file.tar.xz" should do it
13:55:12 <__ln__> also try without z or J
13:55:24 <Alkel_U3> also, it's usually best to leave that part (z, J, etc) out completely, tar usually finds out what kind of compression it's dealing with on its own
13:55:55 <Wolf01> Ok, I always used it because I was told so :P
13:56:13 <__ln__> don't trust what people tell you on the internet
13:57:49 <Wolf01> No, he dislikes the pixelated graphics and 32bpp does not please him
13:57:57 <__ln__> so, there's the problem
13:59:48 <peter1138> tar used to require those options, at some point it gained detection
14:00:21 <Alkel_U3> Wolf01: server crash
14:01:18 <Wolf01> And now which is the password for the new user I just made? XD
14:02:39 <__ln__> peter1138: and of course, we're only talking about gnu tar here.
14:06:18 <Wolf01> Yeah, installing 188MB of python stuff
14:07:02 <Wolf01> (also useful if I'll need to put my dirty hands on nml one day or another)
14:08:24 <__ln__> your dirty paws, you mean
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18:46:40 <Eddi|zuHause> debdog: damn, too late
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19:41:42 <Alkel_U3> Wolf01: yeah, I should probably go outside or do stuff, too :P
20:05:20 <Wolf01> Do you see things moving on belts too? It was a strange thing to see on the dining table XD
20:06:50 <Alkel_U3> no but that will come when I'll be trying to fall asleep
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20:26:08 <Wolf01> Who let the frogs out? :D
20:45:15 <andythenorth> I should carousel? o_O
20:45:19 <andythenorth> carousels are evil
20:45:19 <frosch123> and they are always five, instead of filling the whole width
20:45:44 <andythenorth> also they are true random
20:45:47 <andythenorth> i.e. they can repeat
20:46:12 <frosch123> yep, most-rigth and most-left are equal currenlty :p
20:46:12 <andythenorth> boom, double repeat
20:46:35 <frosch123> did you save the seed?
20:47:20 <andythenorth> I should write another javascript
20:47:29 <andythenorth> if all 5 match, you get a popup offering a prize
20:50:53 * andythenorth can then do the other pages
20:51:23 <frosch123> the zoom stuff always fails the first time after browser restart or something
20:51:28 <frosch123> does it use cookies to work?
20:51:35 <andythenorth> dunno if it’s cookies, didn’t check
20:51:38 <frosch123> i clear them on restart
20:51:40 <andythenorth> :o EU Cookie Law!
20:51:47 * andythenorth has no cookie statement
20:52:56 <andythenorth> graphviz docs basically say “no layout control, get over it”
20:53:26 <andythenorth> I have adjusted the industry chains in a couple of economies to make the graphviz layout nicer
20:53:33 <andythenorth> but too much of that seems unwise
20:53:33 <frosch123> you have some layout control iirc, but what is bad about the picture?
20:54:15 <frosch123> too many parallel lines?
20:54:20 <Eddi|zuHause> it's too wide for the amount of nodes in there, the long stretched lines are difficult to follow
20:54:58 <frosch123> well, provide a better hand-drawn one
20:55:14 <frosch123> otherwise i doubt there is a better manual solution
20:55:21 <frosch123> and thus no better automatic solution
20:56:10 <andythenorth> shame there’s no aspect ratio weighting
20:56:16 <andythenorth> or maybe there is
20:56:46 <andythenorth> that graph could scale to 70% wider, and 30% taller, with more acute angles
20:57:45 <frosch123> there is a "ratio" property for that
20:57:52 <frosch123> for the manual layout there is a "rank" property
20:58:14 <frosch123> never used them, so no idea what the result is
20:59:40 <frosch123> e.g. you could put basic oxygen furnance, stell, stell finishing plant into a subgraph, and assign rank "same"
20:59:47 <frosch123> ther should draw them vertically
21:01:06 <frosch123> you could also try to draw top-bottom with rankdir
21:01:17 <frosch123> but maybe that is weird
21:02:01 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: while i generally dislike these (too common) edge-cases of graphviz where it just doesn't look right, i learned that trying to fight graphviz to make it look better is mostly futile
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21:10:57 <nekomaster> So I ran into a coding error again that I can't figure out
21:11:15 <nekomaster> Line 58 : Unexpected token ")"
21:12:59 <nekomaster> I grabbed this code from the 2cc Trains DSB S Tog II code (graphics + item code)
21:17:00 <Eddi|zuHause> at first glance i would suspect some macro expansion going wrong
21:18:05 <nekomaster> I dont even know what that is
21:18:08 <Eddi|zuHause> also, there is no ) on line 58
21:18:18 <nekomaster> but the compiler keeps complaining about it
21:18:54 <nekomaster> nmlc ERROR: "src/EMU/EMU_PRR_MP54.pnml", line 58: Syntax error, unexpected token ")"
21:19:34 <Eddi|zuHause> try to look at the corresponding .nml output file
21:20:18 <Eddi|zuHause> (warning, may be huge)
21:22:21 <nekomaster> I think I might know what it is maybe
21:23:12 <nekomaster> seems like its looking for an ID range and I forgot to change that all
21:24:16 <nekomaster> Weird thing is that bit of code doesnt seem to match with the ID range I actually set for EMU's
21:24:17 <nekomaster> #define ID_RANGE_EMU 0x32C8..0x36AF
21:25:23 <Eddi|zuHause> you're using ID_RANGE_UNIT_WAGONS
21:25:56 <nekomaster> and those have a different range in my VehicleID then the 2cc trains does
21:27:05 <Eddi|zuHause> also, going back to what i originally said, a "#define" defines a "macro", and a "macro expansion" is replacing the macro name with its content
21:27:58 <Eddi|zuHause> and it turns out i was right
21:28:38 <nekomaster> well at least I know now how to fix this ;P
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21:52:55 <nekomaster> Now I have a new issue >_>
21:53:58 <nekomaster> I would like my EMU cars to have No Pantograph/Lowered Pantograph sprites for unpowered wagons and Pantograph (Up) Sprites for the Powered MU wagons
21:54:18 <nekomaster> But I dunno how to get the code to only show the pantograph wagons when I add a Powered MU Wagon
21:54:28 <nekomaster> "MU Car (Powered)"
22:07:49 <andythenorth> frosch123: if there are tuning parameters, I could set them explicitly per economy
22:08:06 <andythenorth> but leaving the rest of the graph automatic
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22:51:13 <andythenorth> I just killed some more
22:51:13 <andythenorth> drowning in beer
22:58:12 <nekomaster> I'd like it so that Powered MU cars show up as sprites with Pantographs (or with the Pantograph in the up postition)
22:58:35 <nekomaster> And unpowered cars have no pantograph (or have the pantograph down)
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23:02:49 <Eddi|zuHause> nekomaster: in the livery_override sections, change the "default" callback
23:03:34 <nekomaster> This is what I have for the default section
23:03:34 <nekomaster> default: switch_EMU_PRR_MP54_cargo_selection;
23:03:43 <nekomaster> that applies to both powered and unpowered wagons
23:04:16 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, you need to duplicate that switch, so one chain ends in no-pantograph sprites, and the other chain in with-pantograph sprites
23:04:51 <nekomaster> How would I do that? I'm not well versed enough in NML to start taking swings at doing stuff myself
23:04:59 <nekomaster> I'm mostly just trying to understand the code I reuse
23:06:43 <Eddi|zuHause> you copy-paste that switch, and call one "..._with_pantograph", then you do that again for all switches that switch references
23:06:49 <Eddi|zuHause> until you end up at a spriteset
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23:10:08 <Eddi|zuHause> (there's a way to avoid copy-paste by using STORE_TEMP, but really, that's probably beyond your level of programming)
23:10:32 <nekomaster> Honestly I barely even know how to go about doing anything
23:10:50 <frosch123> hmm, kate became usable again in the past 2 years
23:10:51 <nekomaster> Its a wonder how I've even made a set as big as NARS Add-on, then again makign locomotives is pretty easy
23:11:42 <frosch123> it's now better than in kde3, while it was still way worse like 3 years ago
23:11:53 <frosch123> i didn't dream it would ever recover
23:12:19 <Eddi|zuHause> i use kate on windows... i'm terrible
23:12:58 <Eddi|zuHause> probably some acronym containing the word "editor"
23:12:58 <nekomaster> I dunno what that is
23:13:08 <nekomaster> I just use Notepadd++
23:13:27 <nekomaster> Yay my code didn't explode
23:14:00 <nekomaster> And it sort of works :P
23:14:11 <nekomaster> Just have to switch the default sprites around :P
23:16:27 <nekomaster> There, now my MP54 and future EMU trains will have a pantograph car for the powered MU Cars
23:18:46 <nekomaster> I suppose if I want different graphics for the Front and Rear head engines of a MU train, I would just do the same thing for the default graphics and what nto for the head engine
23:19:20 <nekomaster> I dont like the look of a Passenger MU refit to Mail and still looks like its refit for passenger
23:19:46 *** cosmobird__ is now known as cosmobird
23:32:35 <nekomaster> Ok so I'm trying to get the code for changing the head engine graphics based on cargo selection
23:32:59 <nekomaster> I think I have it mostly set up I just dont know how to get it to default to the Passenger graphics and then change to a Mail Engine for other cargos
23:33:07 <nekomaster> Either that or I have garbage
23:33:52 <nekomaster> (ALso I'm using the passenger engine graphics for now until I'm sure I can do this all, which then I'll refer the code to the proper position for the mail engine graphics)
23:34:54 <Eddi|zuHause> you already have a cargo switch, what's the problem?
23:35:30 <nekomaster> nmlc ERROR: "src/EMU/EMU_PRR_MP54.pnml", line 120: Unrecognized identifier 'switch_EMU_PRR_MP54_pass_front' encountered
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23:37:57 <nekomaster> Basically i dunno how to get the Head Engine graphics to actually use the cargo selection switches I made
23:38:00 <nekomaster> for the Head engines
23:38:05 <nekomaster> the MU wagons are fine now
continue to next day ⏵
