IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2017-05-03
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11:37:55 <__ln__> next they're going to ban robots on earth
11:43:04 <Wolf01> The future will feature robots which paint, make movies and songs (as they aren't work), while poor humans will work they ass off to not get their position stolen from robots
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16:36:59 <Wolf01> Eddi|zuHause, I still can't understand why is not possible to solve the problem with infra sharing you talk about every time, not really the "who get paid" but the possible abuse you are talking about
16:39:55 <Wolf01> I think you mean Load A -> Unload B where you have A -> transfer C -> B and you abuse it by doing A<->C and never deliver to B (or deliver after some trips) or even A->C->D->C->D->C->B where D is really far away
16:51:07 <_dp_> What's even the point of infra sharing? If you coop play in one company, if you compete don't share
16:52:17 <supermop_> _dp_: what if yyou want to share but not necessarily have other players making decisions for your company
16:52:35 <Wolf01> My suggestion is: you already can estimate in some ways what the best payment could be for a cargo (which is price * tiles / time), you could get paid for the leg instead of the entire trip, A->C in the right time should be paid as A->C even with transfer (which is just A->C part of A->B), the train (or rv, airplane, ship) did his job, if the C->B leg fucks up and takes 3 years to deliver the
16:52:35 <Wolf01> cargo then it's its fault and will get paid down to 0 in relation of the cargo payment rates
16:53:57 <_dp_> supermop_, ask them not to?
16:54:00 <Wolf01> _dp_, also in future it might be possible to have players which focus only on RVs or ships, other which focus on aircraft, or even disabling constructions of stations for every player and make them via gamescripts
16:54:08 <_dp_> supermop_, way better than uncontrolled infra sharing
16:56:07 <_dp_> Wolf01, don't see how any of this is related to infra sharing, and having players focus on different tasks is already working perfectly
16:56:11 <Wolf01> _dp_, asking players to not do something they are wanting to do is like asking to a kid to not eat the candies on the living room table
16:56:30 <_dp_> Wolf01, in big cb games one does town management, one goods, one coal, etc
16:57:49 <Wolf01> And what if one wants to restructure a train junction to be able to make a road traverse it? It asks the other player to do that? If one doesn't have any limitation he does it by himself
16:59:05 <Wolf01> But this is not the point, the point is to allow different things of game, or you are just one of those people which things "if devs do X which I don't care abouit then they won't do Y which I really want"?
17:01:43 <_dp_> I one of those people who thinks this game is dead already :p
17:02:36 <_dp_> Where do I complain here? I honestly don't understand why would anyone want infra sharing
17:03:18 <_dp_> I do understand why I don't want it :p
17:04:02 <Wolf01> Ok, then that's your point, my point is: it would be cool to have that too because it might open new gameplay
17:08:34 <_dp_> yeah, some pvp massacre xD
17:08:56 <supermop_> _dp_: why do people want canals and ships
17:09:09 <supermop_> I understand why i dont use canals
17:09:23 <supermop_> so we need to remove it from game
17:09:49 <Wolf01> That's not even near realism
17:10:01 <_dp_> supermop_, also ships can transport infinite cargo in limited space
17:10:21 <supermop_> yep, bad feature, must be removed from 1.8
17:10:25 <Wolf01> We will address water transport problems one day
17:10:55 <supermop_> it is offensive to me that any players use ships at all so i demand no one ise ships
17:10:56 <Wolf01> Starting with "you won't be able to fit 2 ships in the same tile anymore"
17:11:08 <supermop_> even in the privacy of their own single player games
17:11:42 <supermop_> i will start filling frivolous DMCA takedown requests to anyone who posts a screenshot of a ship
17:12:05 <supermop_> or a photo of a real ship
17:12:13 <supermop_> unless the censor out the ship
17:15:07 <_dp_> to me worst thing about ships is catchment area hack with port
17:15:54 <Wolf01> Because I can show you what the real catchement area hack is
17:16:04 <_dp_> Wolf01, build two canals, attach port and your rail stating has 5 catchment radius
17:16:50 <Wolf01> Ok, you know you can cover an entire city of 10M inhabitants with just 2 bus stations?
17:18:02 <Wolf01> Or better, with the same bus station split in 2 with station walking (or just ctrl)
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17:18:39 <Wolf01> Catchement area is broken beyond imagination
17:20:32 <_dp_> Wolf01, ofc I know, but that looks at least somewhat logical
17:21:26 <_dp_> Wolf01, since it's not much different from building excessively huge station
17:22:46 <Wolf01> With the difference that huge stations still have 4-5 tiles of catchement radius, not a 30x30 square between them where you can have a city or some industries
17:23:00 <supermop_> anyway why are we even talking about this stuff
17:23:19 <_dp_> Wolf01, you can build station in weird shape
17:23:44 <_dp_> and they will even have acceptance zone of boulding box
17:26:21 <_dp_> and don't get me wrong, it's not that I particularly like spreading, I just don't see any way to avoid it
17:28:43 <_dp_> even something as radical as only having one tile to exert catchment area wouldn't fix it completely
17:40:41 <Wolf01> supermop_, because topics about this pop up in the forum
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19:53:54 <vslk> I'm trying to load my old TTD-save on OpenTTD 1.7.0. Seems to work ok otherwise, but monorail-trains are moving very little
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19:57:15 <vslk> Uh oh.. All the monorail-trains are actually maglev-trains and therefore cant move
20:22:17 <Eddi|zuHause> Wolf01: it's not really about "it's not possible to solve", more about "it should be done properly" and "someone(tm) has to do it"
20:23:51 <Eddi|zuHause> Wolf01: also, when you transfer A->B, you don't know whether the cargo will arrive at C (or D, or E)
20:24:57 <Wolf01> Can't we use cargodist for that?
20:25:17 <Eddi|zuHause> no, it's not cargodest
20:25:24 <Eddi|zuHause> cargo does not have a destination
20:26:06 <Eddi|zuHause> just a probability when it arrives from hop A it goes to next hop B or next hop C
20:27:15 <Eddi|zuHause> but also, infra sharing should work properly without cargodest
20:27:41 <Wolf01> So it's totally random (for routes in which one possible destination accepts it)?
20:28:18 <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, pretty much
20:28:29 <__ln__> is there a release date known for the pilot of Star Trek: Discovery?
20:29:11 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't know any, but i haven't actually looked for one
20:30:21 <andythenorth> kaolin -> plastics factory?
20:30:32 <andythenorth> chemical chain in Extreme is beyond crap
20:30:38 <Eddi|zuHause> that doesn't sound right
20:31:41 <Eddi|zuHause> kaolin should go to a ceramics plant
20:34:08 <Wolf01> Ok, so the station knows where to send the cargo, even it's final destination, but it isn't carried forward by vehicles
20:38:52 <Eddi|zuHause> no, the station only knows the next hop
20:38:56 <Eddi|zuHause> not the final destination
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21:02:19 <frosch123> what's the difference between ESRB_PATH_TOO_LONG and ESRB_MAX_COST_EXCEEDED?
21:13:04 <Alberth> I don't have the latter?
21:18:22 <Alberth> ESRB_PATH_TOO_LONG seems unused now
21:19:14 <frosch123> that's also my conclusion
21:19:28 <frosch123> it's kind of a rename, but with some other change combined
21:31:43 <supermop_> andythenorth: no normal cargo decay, but small % decay for each load and unload from a vehicle?
21:31:49 <supermop_> as the ceramics get broken
21:32:50 <supermop_> andythenorth: best place to get a list of cargo labels for each type that has graphics drawn in hog?
21:35:16 <Alberth> grep for known cargo label in hog source code?
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21:35:59 <Alberth> or find name of the graphics, and find where it is used
21:40:08 <supermop_> is it better to have sprites in 4 small pngs, or one png that's 4x the size?
21:40:46 <frosch123> it is better to have sprites of the same object in the same png
21:41:00 <frosch123> do not split a single vehicle over multiple files
21:41:26 <frosch123> try to reuse the same sprite template for multiple vehicles/cargos
21:58:00 <supermop_> frosch123: what is the reason for that?
21:58:32 <supermop_> if empty and full are in different pngs, i can reuse the same template for both empty and full
21:58:49 <frosch123> yes, for one vehicle
21:58:54 <frosch123> what about the second vehicle?
21:59:57 <supermop_> truck1_empty.png, truck1_full.png, truck2_empty.png, truck2_full.png....
22:00:27 <supermop_> same template could work for all trucks of same size
22:00:35 <supermop_> which in my case is all trucks
22:01:59 <supermop_> i figure that 4 100px *20Px pngs maybe are larger than a single 100*80 png maybe?
22:02:16 <supermop_> but otherwise is there a strong reason not to separate?
22:02:55 <frosch123> it's just easier to write the template, the result is the same either way
22:03:14 <supermop_> working on a 800*1200 file in photoshop is a pain for scrolling around everywhere
22:03:48 <supermop_> so i've gradually gravitated toward smaller and smaller canvas sizes
22:06:05 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: Commit by frosch :: r27862 /branches/1.7 (11 files in 5 dirs) (2017-05-03 22:05:52 +0200 )
22:06:06 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: [1.7] -Backport from trunk:
22:06:07 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: - Fix: Failed to load lzo compressed savegames sometimes [FS#6450] (r27793)
22:06:08 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: - Fix: [Win32] Mark OpenTTD as DPI-aware to avoid OS window scaling that breaks mouse input [FS#6366] (r27791, r27790)
22:06:09 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: - Fix: [NewGRF] Get vehicle load amount after executing new cargo trigger [FS#6536] (r27788)
22:10:01 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: Commit by frosch :: r27863 /branches/1.7 (10 files in 5 dirs) (2017-05-03 22:09:51 +0200 )
22:10:02 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: [1.7] -Backport from trunk:
22:10:03 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: - Fix: Black remap did nothing in 8bpp-simple blitter (r27837)
22:10:04 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: - Fix: Misaligned resize icon due to widget bounds being inclusive (r27831)
22:10:05 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: - Fix: Update viewport sign dimensions when changing GUI zoom level (r27827, r27819)
22:13:15 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: Commit by frosch :: r27864 /branches/1.7 (7 files in 3 dirs) (2017-05-03 22:13:05 +0200 )
22:13:16 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: [1.7] -Backport from trunk:
22:13:17 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: - Fix: Add missing game script event for ships arriving at a station [FS#6560] (r27859, r27858)
22:13:18 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: - Fix: StringID truncation to 16 bits broke string remapping test [FS#6555] (r27851)
22:13:19 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: - Fix: Infinite loop in pathfinder when checking safe waiting position from a waypoint [FS#5926] (r27846)
22:15:50 <frosch123> this time we need a starwars joke
22:16:10 <frosch123> rc1 on may the force
22:16:10 <Wolf01> "Changed large ufo to star destroyer"
22:38:19 <Eddi|zuHause> you can't say anything that is wrong
22:40:42 <Wolf01> Oh, "enabled realistic gravity FORCE for planes"
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22:43:29 <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r27865 /branches/1.7/src/lang (26 files) (2017-05-03 22:43:22 +0200 )
22:43:30 <DorpsGek> [1.7] -Backport from trunk: translation updates
22:45:43 <frosch123> 44 lines for a backport script
22:45:57 <frosch123> python scripts are so hillariously short
22:46:15 <frosch123> (with empty lines, without comments)
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22:48:52 <andythenorth> landlocked ports :(
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