IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2017-04-10
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00:02:41 <Eddi|zuHause> are you lead coder/project manager now?
00:04:09 <Wolf01> Nah, it should be just a suggestion
00:06:42 <supermop_home> I wish there was a way to launch a game straight from SE
00:07:47 <quiznilo> show them a patch and they'll consider it :)
00:07:55 <Eddi|zuHause> man it's been forever since i tried the SE
00:07:55 <Wolf01> Changing game_mode from a running game without reloading could be fun
00:09:04 <Eddi|zuHause> Wolf01: you can just treat it as loading the game... the demand was simply for a quick way to do that without going through the main menu
00:09:59 <Wolf01> Nah, I was thinking more about a transition from SE to normal game without interruptions
00:10:09 <Wolf01> Maybegoing back to SE too
00:10:44 <Wolf01> But it should remove every player property
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00:10:44 <supermop_home> either would be an improvement
00:10:53 <Eddi|zuHause> that may work, but you'd have to check a lot of corner cases to be sure
00:11:13 <Wolf01> Reinitialize all the toolbars too
00:11:15 <Eddi|zuHause> why would loading in SE remove player property?
00:11:34 <Eddi|zuHause> there is a command for that
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00:13:54 <quiznilo> ottd should send email also
00:13:59 <quiznilo> oh... what was that rule?
00:30:34 <FLHerne> quiznilo: Well, you could hook an email relay to the admin port
00:30:56 <FLHerne> r/openttd have a bidirectional IRC bridge for the ingame chat
01:05:19 <quiznilo> hmm... took a year for one of my trains to climb a hill
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10:23:26 <Wolf01> "The glance screen is a Nokia/Lumia only feature, so there are no APIs in WP8.x that allow you to display data there. Likely there exists some internal API at the Lumia teams that allow you to do so but that isn't available to regular developers." well... shit
10:24:31 <Wolf01> And is still the same in W10
10:27:00 <Wolf01> The only solution is to replace the entire lockscreen
10:27:27 <__ln__> Wolf01: have you considered switching to MeeGo?
10:27:52 <Wolf01> Yes and no for every reason you could find
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15:35:40 <crem> Why are authorities so evil? They allow me nothing!
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15:43:52 <Arveen> or maybe tweak it so mowing down trees and infrastructure increases rating :D
15:45:40 <crem> I start every game by building railway station in all towns almost immediately, being scared that I won't be able to do that later. :)
15:46:18 <Samu> that's how you lower your town rating
15:47:05 <crem> I guess it won't lower it unless I actually start transporting things.
15:47:20 <_dp_> somehow that got me thinking: why don't we have flying trains?
15:47:38 <Samu> stations on a town without being serviced = appalling
15:48:40 <crem> "company rating" and "whatever it's called, the one which makes authorities disallow building" are different things, aren't they?
15:48:47 <_dp_> crem, you got it completely backwards, unused stations lower rating
15:49:26 <crem> There's no need to worry about it when you already built what you wanted. :)
15:50:19 <_dp_> if one station is all you want then yes
15:50:43 <_dp_> though, who cares, just plan some trees, authorities absolutely love trees ;)
15:51:29 <crem> trees trick doesn't work more than 2-3 times. :)
15:51:52 <_dp_> crem, destroy all trees and plant them again xD
15:51:58 <supermop> _dp_: one unused station with no track can have service added later
15:52:53 <supermop> _dp_: one mainline track with no station though trees and it's a pain to add a station later
15:53:45 <supermop> intrinsically, i dont care if the the town rating is low once ive built the station
15:54:02 <supermop> and I won't care that it remains low until i start the service
15:54:11 <supermop> at which point it will improve
15:55:47 <andythenorth> V453000: day off work, should newgrf?
15:57:48 <V453000> I will probably do something with brix over evenings after we release factorio 0.15
15:58:37 <planetmaker> crem: build two bus stations in eacht town and inaugurate a bus service. Then that service will improve your rating - even when you lower it by landscaping
15:58:46 <_dp_> supermop, and I never pay at low enough pace to justify building unused stations of waiting for rating to increase on its own
15:58:49 * andythenorth has made a big FIRS mess and needs to finish tidying it up
15:58:54 <andythenorth> otherwise no release
15:59:20 <supermop> ^ what pm said is the easiest way
15:59:49 <_dp_> even one station is enough :p
15:59:51 <andythenorth> I added warning messages to the compile for unfinished things
15:59:55 <andythenorth> so now it nags me a lot
16:00:04 <supermop> _dp_: if you are playing at a fast pace then still build all the stations and go ahead and start the train
16:01:08 <crem> But is the service rating (which is improved by transferring goods timely) and authority rating (which disallows building) the same thing?
16:01:27 <_dp_> supermop, lol, if I don't have decent income after first few months game is already screwed
16:01:35 <V453000> that's nice andythenorth
16:02:57 <crem> Then how building two bus stations help authorities to allow me building? :-\
16:03:03 <supermop> you can have 5 stations in a town with excellent rating but still have the town hate you because you demolished half their buildings
16:03:35 <supermop> because station rating has an effect on authority rating
16:04:18 <_dp_> there is local authority rating of company in each town and station rating for each cargo on each station
16:04:37 <_dp_> both are improved by tranporting but in different ways
16:05:19 <supermop> if you have a station with a good rating, that will gradually improve your town rating
16:06:01 <_dp_> supermop, no, station rating is completely irrelevant for authorities
16:06:12 <supermop> i guess a station with a horrible rating would also hurt your town rating, but i never really notice it
16:06:19 <_dp_> all they care is that station is active (ie any load or unload in 50 days)
16:07:05 <supermop> well that's close enough to equivalent to me
16:07:47 <_dp_> supermop, unloading stations don't even have cargo ratings
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16:19:25 <andythenorth> Salt cargo for FIRS extreme?
16:19:34 <andythenorth> there is 1 cargo slot free
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16:22:23 <peter1138> Just make more cargo slots.
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16:30:47 * crem has no idea what FIRS is. Probably it's either not released or not very discoverable.
16:31:51 <quiznilo> replaces stock industries with a whole bunch of new ones that work differently
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16:32:52 <quiznilo> like, you get milk from the dairy farm, and take it to the dairy, and they make food out of it
16:33:06 <quiznilo> can ship to grocery stores or gas stations... convenience stores
16:33:11 <quiznilo> or even direct to houses
16:33:26 <quiznilo> not sure what the diff is between sending food to houses or an industry
16:34:42 <crem> I tried picking random newgrfs but they were mostly just new trains or something. I'd like to have a curated list of recommended newgrfs. To blindly install them all and have fun.
16:37:22 <dlite> FIRS is good, but you need to combine it with compatible train / road vehicle sets
16:41:14 <andythenorth> FIRS, CHIPS, Road Hog, Iron Horse, OGFX+ Airports (removes all town<->airport restrictions). AV9
16:41:26 <andythenorth> oh and some kind of ship set, but they’re all awful
16:41:54 <andythenorth> regular viewers may detect some bias in andythenorth’s grf list
16:42:10 <supermop> crem: i'd say FIRS is probably the most popular industry newgrf, over the past 9(?) years?
16:42:19 <quiznilo> andy, I had a question about FIRS
16:42:21 <Alberth> andy, they're simply the best :)
16:42:25 <quiznilo> trying to remember it
16:42:40 <Alberth> supplies, and production
16:42:41 <quiznilo> not if I can't remember it
16:42:42 <andythenorth> I don’t trust ‘best’ for such subjective things
16:42:53 <Alberth> there is a log at @log :p
16:44:57 <quiznilo> I probably answered it when I grepped FIRS source code
16:47:20 <Alberth> ok, so you didn't have a question :p
16:47:41 <quiznilo> I'm always asking questions :)
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17:10:40 <andythenorth> ach, connection won’t stay up :x
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18:44:42 <quiznilo> I'd love to submit a patch for train/car replacement, have 'one less car' as an option, so I don't have to pull 50 freight trains into a depot one at a time to remove a car or get rid of caboose
18:44:57 <quiznilo> need to learn C++ first though :v
18:45:09 <frosch123> check forums for template based train replacement
18:45:25 <quiznilo> if this is a thing...
18:46:21 <ST2> about "one less car" there's already the Wagon removal option
18:47:06 <Alberth> make a new train with one less car, then replicate it for each train that you have, deleting the original
18:54:46 <Alberth> Wolf01: looks good, thanks
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19:35:51 <zacnomore> I just pulled the svn repo and it gave me a build warning: checking revision... no detection... WARNING: please use a subversion, mercurial, or git checkout of OpenTTD... WARNING: USE WITH CAUTION!"
19:35:57 <zacnomore> How concerned should I be?
19:36:45 <frosch123> i think that happens if you checkout everything, instead of just trunk
19:38:35 <zacnomore> Hmmm. How could it tell though? I ran configure from inside the trunk... Either way, what should I do to fix that?
19:39:39 <frosch123> it looks for .svn folders
19:40:07 <frosch123> if you checkout everything with svn, that folder is one level up too much
19:40:26 <zacnomore> Hmm. Alright. Thanks much.
19:45:47 <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r27852 /trunk/src/lang (catalan.txt spanish.txt) (2017-04-10 19:45:37 +0200 )
19:45:49 <DorpsGek> catalan: 31 changes by juanjo
19:45:50 <DorpsGek> spanish: 5 changes by SilverSurferZzZ
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20:07:00 <andythenorth> remove clustering from FIRS?
20:08:38 <Alberth> why would you want to remove clustering?
20:09:33 <frosch123> didn't you remove that 2 years ago?
20:09:47 <peter1138> hmm, what else can i break...
20:10:28 <andythenorth> I eased clustering so they’re more widely spaced
20:10:34 <andythenorth> not sure it’s useful
20:10:50 <andythenorth> means, for example, that steel mills are distributed across the map
20:11:02 <andythenorth> but only one part of the map will have coal
20:11:08 <andythenorth> and some other part has the iron ore
20:11:11 <Wolf01> Mmmh, a setting to make trains not brake instantaneously
20:11:26 <frosch123> isn't that a good thing?
20:11:41 <andythenorth> peter1138: allow trains on a PBS reservation to follow preceeding trains in same direction
20:11:53 <andythenorth> [and hope none of them need to reverse]
20:12:03 <frosch123> and one of them breaks down
20:12:25 <andythenorth> ‘proceed on sight'
20:13:01 <andythenorth> there’s something in JGR’s pack about slots
20:13:05 <andythenorth> dunno what it is
20:14:10 * andythenorth wonders about merging trunk to NRT
20:16:53 <andythenorth> too many conflicts that I don’t understand
20:19:03 <Wolf01> I don't understand how to git
20:19:46 <peter1138> git do-all-the-things
20:19:48 <Wolf01> Best I can do is switch the branch, commit, pull
20:19:56 <andythenorth> I don’t understand how to do ottd :P
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20:21:41 <andythenorth> .gitignore is sad about projects/.vs and similar
20:22:01 <andythenorth> hmm remote diffing is crap :(
20:22:09 <peter1138> .gitignore is... a file
20:23:17 <andythenorth> I have ottd trunk set up as a remote, and I’m trying to merge it into the road-and-tram-types branch
20:23:27 <andythenorth> but eh, conflicts in things I don’t understand
20:25:19 <Wolf01> gitignore conflicts might be my fault
20:27:21 * andythenorth tries the newfangled way
20:27:35 <andythenorth> the second conflict is all greek to me :P
20:31:28 <peter1138> [road-and-tram-types 751f8b1] Merge remote-tracking branch 'origin/master' into road-and-tram-types
20:32:04 <quiznilo> nm, the file is just... just gone!
20:40:28 <andythenorth> probably fine then
20:42:02 <quiznilo> if it compiles, ship it
20:43:10 <peter1138> and that worked well for mozilla...
20:46:56 <quiznilo> I'm checking out jetbrains' new Go IDE
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20:48:27 <quiznilo> vim is pissing me off
20:49:40 <andythenorth> towns can’t be funded?
20:51:25 <andythenorth> oh it’s a setting
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22:04:30 <andythenorth> peter1138: you could just push it
22:04:35 <andythenorth> it’s a branch in a fork
22:04:46 <andythenorth> which kittens might die?
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22:40:07 * andythenorth is not good at maths
22:40:28 <andythenorth> but, what division operations result in 0? o_O
22:42:15 <_dp_> though it gets more complex with computers
22:42:50 <Wolf01> Mmmmh, you might be responsible of my soon-to-be-lost night over numberphile
22:43:02 <andythenorth> industry_count(${location_check.industry_type_numeric_id}) / ${location_check.div} / industry_clusters != 0
22:43:10 <andythenorth> looks like a stupid check to me
22:43:25 <andythenorth> location_check.div is usually 3 or 4
22:43:45 <Wolf01> If that is 0 you have a problem
22:44:05 <andythenorth> it seems to be totally pointless
22:44:16 <Wolf01> Maybe it's the industry count that is 0
22:44:23 <Wolf01> Difficult but possible
22:44:25 <_dp_> is in integer division or float?
22:44:42 <andythenorth> bytecode so integer
22:45:13 <_dp_> then I guess it's equivalent to abs(count) >= div*clusters
22:45:53 <andythenorth> that would be what is wanted I think
22:46:27 <andythenorth> that would be an easier way to write the same check :P
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23:27:41 <quiznilo> andy, what was the idea about adding these hotels? Was that a way to approach passenger traffic as if it were an industry?
23:28:46 <quiznilo> pick up passengers from hotel
23:28:56 <quiznilo> possibly send them to livestock plant
23:29:11 <quiznilo> name it 'Soylent Green Cracker Factory'
23:31:57 <Wolf01> I think you aren't the first one which came out with this idea
23:36:04 <supermop> quiznilo: i think the idea was an easy black hole for certain firs cargoes, as well as easy source of early game passenger traffic to bootstrap network incase towns are too small
23:37:25 <ST2> The thing I like about FIRS is that you can have people eat bricks :P
23:37:27 <ST2> Stone -> Lime Kiln -> Chemicals -> Paper Mill -> Manufacturing Supplies -> Grain Mill -> Food
23:56:46 <Eddi|zuHause> it's not that far from the truth
23:57:23 <Eddi|zuHause> my company dissolves stones in acid, and the resulting salt-solution gets put in food
23:59:23 <ST2> dman, that's looks like a nasty way to get salt - maybe we should start collecting tears xD
23:59:40 <ST2> or use the old way, sea salt ^^
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