IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2017-03-29
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00:31:46 <peter1138> yeah, ship docking works better when you restrict the trackbits
00:31:59 <peter1138> bit it needs neighbour info which is not nice
00:32:27 <peter1138> Maybe storing water trackbits on the map is not a bad idea
00:34:42 <Samu> what ship docking? what is it doing?
00:35:25 <peter1138> if it docks on the trackbit which heads to the dock tile itself, it then can't find a path when it leaves the dock
00:35:32 <peter1138> gives you the ship is lost message, briefly
00:35:50 <peter1138> gets to the end of the tile, turns around, and magically it's happy again
00:36:25 <Samu> or "not really a bug" but annoying anyway
00:36:48 <peter1138> it's a bit keen to say it's lost
00:36:51 <peter1138> but then the message is deleted
00:37:01 <peter1138> it's like... did i imagine that?
00:40:23 <Samu> i had to use 2 path finds to overcome that, just to find a depot
00:40:35 <Samu> did u see my post on the forum?
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01:52:38 <peter1138> and of course changing the water tile trackbits breaks savegames :(
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12:33:06 <Wolf01> BTW, I'm going to redesign the toolbar switch, it's too limited to have just 2 toolbars on low res...
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12:41:50 <peter1138> i see two toolbars on the left & right in some pictures
12:44:30 <peter1138> yeah he means small screens
12:45:03 <peter1138> funny that juanjo has a patch to make all the icons be text strings
12:45:10 <peter1138> which is what we had originally but moved away from :p
12:45:17 <peter1138> like smartphone screens
13:06:11 <Wolf01> Yeah, game set as low res, not display
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13:14:38 <peter1138> what setting is that?
13:20:04 <UncleCJ> Nice long lunch with OpenTTD between hard work sessions :-) I noticed the version of the Stockholm scenario I loaded used Windows backslashes in some path, anyone familiar with how that ingame content is updated/fixed?
13:25:20 <peter1138> switching to fullscreen has a low res detection?
13:25:45 <Wolf01> You can change the rendered resolution instead of the window size
13:26:57 <Wolf01> For example I can nicely play with 1152x864 to see things a bit bigger without distorting all the graphics :P
13:27:16 <Wolf01> Or I can just move my head towards the screen
13:27:39 <peter1138> i think there's cross-conversation here
13:28:20 <peter1138> i was talking about the 2 vertical toolbars
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13:29:07 <Wolf01> That's just another arrangement
13:29:40 <Wolf01> With some more buttons added for DEL and CTRL
13:30:27 <peter1138> yeah but is it in openttd or some other patch?
13:30:31 <Wolf01> It still have the same problem of the vanilla toolbar on small screen/small window/low res setting
13:31:01 <peter1138> so that is what causes the 2 toolbars
13:31:19 <peter1138> not "game set as low res" which it seemed you were saying
13:31:46 <peter1138> and indeed that 1024x768 is not low res
13:31:53 <Wolf01> I was talking about the 2nd toolbar switch (the button with the 2 arrows)
13:31:55 <peter1138> what is this world coming to :(
13:32:17 <peter1138> you were but then posted the android pic :p
13:32:31 <peter1138> i should get to work
13:32:31 <Samu> i didn't know i could stack overlapping trackdirs
13:33:13 <Samu> direction X NE and directo X SW
13:33:27 <Samu> i can stack both, and i get a weird trackdir
13:33:40 <Samu> direction X NE SW kind of crap
13:34:38 <Samu> it's like the ship can move in both directions for pathfinding purposes, but it really doesn't
13:35:37 <Samu> but this makes it simple, i don't need to use pathfind twice
13:35:50 <Samu> wish I had known this first
13:37:03 <Samu> not using pathfind twice really saves cpu resources
13:37:12 <Wolf01> BTW, the gui I showed is good for small screen/small window/low res setting, at least you won't get a lot of overlapping buttons
13:38:17 <Samu> this also means I don't need a CYapfOriginTileTwoWayT, only the CYapfOriginTileT
13:38:37 <Wolf01> And one of the 2 can be fixed with base functions, while the other one changes with the switch
13:38:52 <Samu> this "TwoWay" either was misleading me, or i misunderstood its purpose
13:39:14 <Wolf01> While now the switch changes the whole toolbar and the left part arrangement is just repeated
13:40:37 <Wolf01> I was planning to change the switch button with a 2 left-right buttons and switch between more toolbars arrangements, not just 2
13:43:07 <Samu> ah, they're trackdirbits, not trackdir
13:43:17 <Samu> but still... weird that I can do that
13:46:33 <Samu> i also learned a few more things, i don't need to edit yapf_node.ship.hpp at all
13:47:58 <Samu> editing a v2, will post it shortly
13:54:40 <peter1138> Wolf01, not one button to cycle?
13:55:20 <Wolf01> No, or if you want just one it must not be kept in a pressed state
13:55:58 <peter1138> button not a toggle button
13:58:25 <Wolf01> It might change the icon to show the current arrangement, like 1/3, 2/3... 1/5, but I don't like that, and with an icon it might be tricky
13:58:54 <Wolf01> Also if you have more than 3 arrangements you need a lot of clicks to get back to the previous one
13:59:12 <Wolf01> That's why I'm for +1/-1 or </> buttons
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14:00:27 <Wolf01> They might be thin, so they only take the same space of a single button
14:00:50 <peter1138> isn't that hard to press?
14:01:09 <Wolf01> We have smaller buttons
14:02:10 <Wolf01> Just look at the date widgets in the SE toolbar
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15:39:19 <__ln__> so... what language will we choose as the main language on this channel after brexit?
15:51:15 <planetmaker> or maybe latin. Might be used more wide-spread
15:52:15 <Wolf01> I could try with Furlan
15:53:16 <Wolf01> But I miss all the accents in the keyboard :(
15:54:15 <crem> Let's talk brainfuck or whitespace.
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16:21:05 <UncleCJ> I just checked out the old source code - seems the svn crashed sometime seven years ago or something. I understand my old classmate was one of the initial developers
16:21:48 <UncleCJ> Mhmmm... "In 2003, Ludvig Strigeus announced that he intended to reverse engineer Transport Tycoon Deluxe and convert the game to C. In 2004, this re-engineered Transport Tycoon Deluxe was released and named OpenTTD"
16:24:10 <LordAro> Rubidium: i feel like it definitely used to be C
16:24:14 <UncleCJ> Oh hai Rubidium, just looking for you :-)
16:24:18 <UncleCJ> "Brought to you by: darkvater, rubidium85, strigeus"
16:27:18 <peter1138> i wonder what anna meredith smokes
16:27:31 <UncleCJ> Oh it used to... and it's fun archeology to dig around in that stuff
16:28:11 <UncleCJ> (I'm also doing an svn-git conversion of a very old repo in the office, so it's kind of related)
16:33:11 <peter1138> though probably not that many commiets since then
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16:39:41 <UncleCJ> peter1138: I just think it's awesome to see the craft of software development visualized like that, so many thoughts, so much work, not only to expand but to reshape the project. Plus it's open source, Ludvig is hardly noticeable among all the other contributors
16:42:55 <DorpsGek> LordAro: Ludde was last seen in #openttd 4 years, 37 weeks, 3 days, 7 hours, 39 minutes, and 34 seconds ago: <ludde> hej
16:44:05 <Samu> woah, editing npf was much much easier than yapf
16:44:32 <Samu> already have it finding depots for npf
16:44:42 <Wolf01> Mmmh weather is getting hot
16:46:09 <Wolf01> The wind is like a hairdryer
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16:57:58 <__ln__> Samu: you're using the wrong degree character º while Wolf01 is using the correct °.
16:58:54 <Samu> my keyboard doesn't have that
17:01:04 <UncleCJ> LordAro: I have a fond memory of Ludde coding at the university lab... I commented something like "A minimal bittorrent client, for windows, and closed source? What a boring project?!"
17:01:34 <UncleCJ> Rarely have I been more mistaken, except the time when I was dead sure youtube would fail spectacularly
17:02:10 * UncleCJ is fond of being spectacularly mistaken occasionally
17:04:50 <Samu> 90 deg doesn't work for opf?
17:06:13 <Eddi|zuHause> converting an svn repo to git? isn't there like a git-svn interface that you can just check out the repo with,and do any further work off that checkout (cloning, pushing, etc.)?
17:07:05 <Alberth> Eddi|zuHause: yes, there is git-svn
17:07:18 <peter1138> yeah it mostly works
17:07:27 <peter1138> unless you didn't know about trunk etc when you set it up
17:07:49 <LordAro> git-svn still has to convert to git format on first clone
17:08:03 <LordAro> (unless you only do it to a certain depth or w/e)
17:09:07 <Alberth> just skip the steps involving bitbucket :)
17:09:43 <Alberth> empty directories are a problem
17:09:51 <Eddi|zuHause> "if you’re reading this guide, that person is probably you"
17:12:34 <UncleCJ> Eddi|zuHause: Yeah, there is, but it's more involved than that, like if we want to keep using svn, how are the credentials stored, the layout is very non-standard and have changed a couple of times during the years, multiple components... 2900 commits over 9 years
17:14:13 <UncleCJ> I could of course just do recent history of the trunk, but where's the fun in that? I found some tutorial how to do it step-wise and graft the histories together... now I'm down to a 370 MB git repo, which is not too shabby
17:14:43 <UncleCJ> I noticed OpenTTD just made separate repos for the different svn branches, that is one way too
17:14:47 <Eddi|zuHause> well, you want to preserve as much history as possible
17:15:22 <Eddi|zuHause> OpenTTD is a bit special because it wants to keep SVN as the main repo
17:16:21 <Alberth> that's addressed too in the tutorial
17:16:27 <Eddi|zuHause> for your in-house development that's probably not a useful goal
17:18:25 <peter1138> yeah i'd not keep svn if it was myself
17:19:31 <Alberth> depends on how git-minded you are, bitbucket aims for companies, where not everybody or everything can switch to git instantly
17:21:03 <peter1138> i guess it does require more coordination
17:21:14 <peter1138> at least with svn committing to trunk is easy
17:28:02 <Alberth> you need to do "git pull" every now and then
17:36:37 <Eddi|zuHause> anyway, my cats are usually uninterested in what's on my screen, except for the mouse cursor
17:37:27 <Wolf01> My cat was really uninterested on what was on my screen, he loved to just sleep on my lap
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17:55:44 <Samu> i dont understand how the original pathfinder works, it's too different than the other two
17:59:11 <Alberth> it uses some heuristics, ie guesses for common situations. That makes it quicker, but also less accurate
17:59:34 <Alberth> never looked at it in detail though
18:00:21 <Samu> heuristics? what is that?
18:00:23 <Alberth> ever played the Deluxe version, or RCT1 or 2, or Locomotion, or the new mobile transport tycoon?
18:00:34 <Alberth> they all use it, I think
18:01:39 <Alberth> it's sort of a table with common answers, based on very simple criteria
18:03:14 <Alberth> it could be, for example, "walk in the direction of the axis with the longest distance"
18:03:41 <Alberth> Again, I am just making up this example, I don't know what OPF does
18:04:40 <Alberth> it generally works, as most people make tracks that way
18:05:05 <Alberth> you can however also construct connections that fail on that heuristic
18:05:45 <Alberth> real path finders like NPF and YAPF do a proper distance calculation, and always come up with the correct answer
18:05:57 <Alberth> they are however much slower
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18:37:45 <Alberth> from Germany in general to an ancient OpenTTD train set... how do you do that :p
18:40:39 <frosch123> Alberth: it links to wikipedia/germany
18:53:27 <Samu> how to make the opf do a FindDepotData :(
18:54:14 <Samu> it doesn't even know if the ship is lost
18:54:21 <Samu> if it's going the right way
18:54:47 <Samu> i think it's possible, but i still don't quite get how this works
18:54:56 <Wolf01> Why don't you instead make another pathfinder based on YAPF and leave other code as is?
18:55:38 <peter1138> this stuff is why i was suggesting to rip out the non-yapf pathfinders
18:55:44 <peter1138> having to reimplement everything.. :S
18:57:31 <Wolf01> Because people is nostalgic and want to feel how it was to play with old things
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18:59:42 <frosch123> i like npf, it always comes to use when yapf is desync-broken and noone can fix it
19:00:17 <frosch123> generally, if something is broken with yapf, it helps to check whether npf works
19:00:28 <frosch123> to see whether the issue is with yapf, or something from the outside
19:00:48 <peter1138> hmm using pianoteq for openttd's music
19:00:48 <frosch123> peter1138: i think the railtype fix was only 2016
19:00:57 <peter1138> only works for the scott joplin set :D
19:01:23 <peter1138> bear in mind i've not played much since about 2008 :p
19:01:33 <frosch123> yapf used to consider track segments with different tracktypes as one segment in some cases, which resulted in desyncs
19:01:56 <peter1138> i always wanted to have the signal code check railtype
19:02:08 <peter1138> but that was just spiteful to openttdcoop :p
19:03:19 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't think that would work right with railtypes that are "incompatible", but have some common "ancestor"
19:03:20 <frosch123> i assume infra-sharing disabled signals checking ownership
19:03:33 <frosch123> would be funny otherwise
19:04:36 <Eddi|zuHause> remember when you could build depots at AI stations and crash or block their vehicles?
19:05:06 <peter1138> the whole "back of the depot" trick?
19:05:35 <Eddi|zuHause> no, not back of depot
19:05:40 <peter1138> (which scares me when i see in these patch packs code that removes rear of depot checks... "trains don't go into rear of depot" yeah... sure)
19:05:55 <Eddi|zuHause> just simply put a depot, buy a jinty (oh the memories) and let it go
19:06:05 <Eddi|zuHause> it would crash with the AI vehicles
19:06:23 <peter1138> not on their track but can still collide
19:06:25 <Eddi|zuHause> because the crash check would work across owners
19:06:41 <Eddi|zuHause> and the vehicle can move a bit over the end of the track
19:07:46 <peter1138> hmm, annoying that pmidi doesn't send all-notes-off when it finishes :S
19:11:21 <peter1138> oh, apparently it does
19:11:28 <peter1138> maybe only when it finishes cleanly :S
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19:24:55 <peter1138> usual problem with midi, if you don't have the exact same instrument set and synthesizer, it all sounds terrible
19:36:55 <DorpsGek> Commit by peter1138 :: r27834 /trunk/src/music (extmidi.cpp extmidi.h) (2017-03-29 19:36:46 +0200 )
19:36:56 <DorpsGek> -Change: Parse extmidi command string for parameters to pass on.
19:39:53 <Samu> i dunno how to do this for opf, it was probably done before, opf used to manage trains, right?
19:40:11 <Samu> when was the last time opf was selectable in openttd?
19:45:43 <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r27835 trunk/src/lang/norwegian_bokmal.txt (2017-03-29 19:45:37 +0200 )
19:45:45 <DorpsGek> norwegian (bokmal): 37 changes by eirik174
19:50:27 <Samu> i was trying to make opf search for depots
19:51:15 <Samu> already done it for npf and yapf, missing opf
19:51:25 <peter1138> the old pathfinder isn't even the original one
19:51:37 <peter1138> (svn r2635) Fix: [ntp/misc] Improve the old pathfinder. Changed it to A* instead of Dijkstra.
19:52:11 <Eddi|zuHause> ntp is not the original pathfinder
19:52:44 <Eddi|zuHause> it's "new train pathfinding"
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20:12:30 <Samu> oh well, too noob for this
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20:41:39 <Samu> why can't i put a FindDepotData on opf_ship.cpp
20:42:17 <Samu> Severity Code Description Project File Line Suppression State Error (active) identifier "FindDepotData" is undefined openttd d:\OpenTTD\trunk\src\pathfinder\opf\opf_ship.cpp 216
20:44:21 <Samu> i don't understand includes
20:44:31 <Samu> why do I have to include it twic
20:44:37 <Samu> #include "../pathfinder_type.h"
20:44:52 <Samu> in opf_ship.h and opf_ship.cpp
20:45:16 <Wolf01> Because headers are used very wrongly
20:46:39 <Wolf01> They should only have the declaration, not implementation
20:47:24 <Samu> ok, i removed it from the .h
20:47:30 <Samu> it's only on .cpp now, it's working
20:47:39 <Samu> didn't have to include twice after all
20:48:52 <Samu> ship_cmd.cpp can still have access to FindDepotData OPFShipFindNearestDepot(const Ship *v, int max_distance);
20:49:06 <Wolf01> You should include it only in files where it's specifically used
20:51:03 <Samu> all this just for a placeholder function
20:51:10 <Samu> it's not even implemented
20:53:09 <Wolf01> Compiler shit... you can't declare a function after its use, but you can declare it and implement it after its use
20:53:36 <Alberth> until you try to inline the code :p
20:54:28 <Samu> is the only thing it does
20:55:17 <Samu> until i figure a way to do it for real in OPF, it stays like that
20:55:59 <Wolf01> Just use "FindDepotData()"?
21:01:59 <Samu> and line 314 is where it's called
21:02:42 <Samu> line 354 will handle it better
21:03:05 <Samu> it resorts to the distance manhattan search method
21:11:39 <Samu> so who wants to do the opf part for me? :p
21:13:31 <Wolf01> If everyone contributes with a character, then you will only have to rearrange them in the right order, like puzzle
21:23:20 <Wolf01> Since not many people would like to contribute (is free), here is another one: ;
21:27:10 <Alberth> x & y look needed too
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23:33:00 <Samu> i need help to do a FindDepotData for opf
23:41:12 <peter1138> always fun when a lump of mud goes up your nose
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