IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2017-03-22
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10:00:57 <Samu> is it possible to have ships do 90 degrees, but not trains, in the same game?
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11:13:16 <Samu> question, how do i separate a game setting?
11:13:35 <Samu> i got this which affects both trains and ships
11:13:59 <Samu> pf.forbid_90_deg_trains and pf.forbid_90_deg_ships
11:14:24 <Samu> how would i be able to convert from the old setting to the 2 new settings? I wanna get rid of the old
11:40:14 <peter1138> and then i wondered why bother?
11:41:00 <peter1138> i don't think 90 degree bends for ships has the same consequences as for trains
11:41:13 <peter1138> so why not just strip it out for ships
11:42:28 <Wolf01> Mmmmh, peter1138, to unlock bigger vehicles do I need to research them by luck? So far I analyzed at least 15 things and only unlocked dynamite...
11:42:42 <peter1138> i haven't got that far!
11:42:53 <peter1138> don't have a vehicle at all
11:43:15 <Wolf01> I'm roaming around with a nice rover and recovering a lot of materials now
11:43:47 <Wolf01> But it's limited in storage... and battery
11:44:17 <Wolf01> Battery depleted = must wait for the day to recharge with solar panel
11:46:34 <Samu> i'd just get rid of 90 degrees for ships too, but i guess it's preferable to have an option to enable or disable
11:54:20 <Samu> help me understand something
11:54:48 <Samu> how am i renaming a variable
11:55:17 <Samu> or get rid of a variable but re-use what they were for conversion
11:57:59 <Samu> pf.forbid_90_deg would exist from savegame version 0 to 196, then from 197 it would be split into pf.forbid_90_deg_ships and pf.forbid_90_deg_trains, how am i doing this, need guidance
12:04:29 <Wolf01> Oh, it seem I can attach at least one more chassis to the rover, without a seat to make a trailer
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13:33:45 <peter1138> Samu, i don't know off hand for settings.
13:33:55 <peter1138> Samu, that's partly why i figured it was unnecessary :p
13:34:33 <peter1138> forbidding 90 degree turns for trains stops them turning around at X-style crossing
13:35:50 <peter1138> ships can turn on the spot anyway
13:49:35 <Samu> had to fiddle with the pathfinders, hopefully I got them prepared to deal with 2 different settings now
14:22:59 <peter1138> Oh, language update.
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15:08:04 <supermop> must include diswasher
15:13:45 <peter1138> You're a wednesday.
15:20:01 <Samu> how does openttd guess that a setting from an old save belongs to the same on a new save
15:20:17 <Samu> does the order they're placed in settings.ini matter?
15:20:49 <Samu> I am surprised that it is converting correctly between old and new
15:21:39 <Wolf01> Mmmh, I think I've made a huge mistake, I purchased Astroneer on xbox live, but all my friends which might purchase it will do it on steam
15:22:01 <Wolf01> But I was too lazy to download it again...
15:22:45 <Wolf01> I hope for dedicated servers in future...
15:52:17 <peter1138> Yeah, I got it on steam.
15:52:24 <peter1138> What the heck is xbox live...
15:55:32 <Wolf01> The microsoft hub for games
15:56:08 <Wolf01> New games purchased on xbox live are also playable on xbox one (if they have that version too)
15:56:35 <peter1138> Yeah I do know what it is.
15:56:38 <peter1138> But nobody uses it.
15:56:47 <peter1138> Not unless they have one of those crappy Xbox thigns.
16:00:44 <Wolf01> TBH I'm sick of different stores licenses... I would like to purchase games indipendently from the store and just have a library to launch the games and find friends to play with (somebody said gamespy?)
16:02:31 <andythenorth> Brownsville Turnaround On The Tex-Mex Border eh
16:03:21 <supermop> andythenorth: no idea what you're talking about but i assume it is bad
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16:36:38 <alluke> is there any way to search attached files at the forums?
16:37:17 <alluke> id need to find one save game but no idea how to find it
16:39:09 <alluke> i only know the related topic and poster and partial file name
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16:46:51 <Samu> oops, i can buy 100% AI shares
16:47:05 <Samu> in multiplayer that should be forbidden
16:47:35 <alluke> nvm, kept clicking next page + cmd + f
16:49:16 <Samu> can AIs buy shares from other companies?
16:52:19 <Alberth> whether there is actually an API for it, I don't know
16:53:25 <Alberth> shares are kind of weird, they don't really have a place in the game
16:53:46 <andythenorth> they are half-assed
16:53:52 <Alberth> they likely only exist because the original game had them
16:53:53 <andythenorth> what’s the purpose of them>?
16:54:13 <andythenorth> Railroad Tycoon 2 and 3, you had proper stock market
16:54:25 <andythenorth> some scenarios, it was entirely a stock trading game
16:54:49 <andythenorth> shorts, pump and dump, domino acquisitions, robbing peter to pay paul
16:55:17 <Alberth> you need to extend share concepts a lot to make it useful, I agree
16:55:18 <andythenorth> ottd, the shares are so crippled they’re just wasting UI space
16:55:26 <andythenorth> replace with a button ‘buy this company'
16:55:59 <Alberth> some devs may deeply disagree with that
16:56:29 <Alberth> out of authenticity point of view
16:58:06 <andythenorth> maybe it’s time for the fork :)
16:58:18 <andythenorth> OpenTTD 1 = TTD + stuff
16:58:23 <andythenorth> OpenTTD 2 = NotTTD
16:58:41 <andythenorth> then we can all fall out over what actually goes in OpenTTD 2
16:58:46 <andythenorth> and nothing will ever ship
16:59:10 <peter1138> Come up with a coherent and useful plan...
16:59:23 <peter1138> But "make shares better" isn't one.
17:00:23 <Samu> if i can't buy 100% shares of a human company, i shouldn't 100% buy an AI, at least in multiplayer
17:01:26 <Samu> i might create yet another game setting for this, :(
17:01:51 <andythenorth> delete timetables while we’re deleting also
17:02:12 <Milek7> there isn't already a setting for disabling shares?
17:02:13 <andythenorth> run some random mutations, see what’s best :P
17:02:13 <Alberth> Samu: but it was such a nice strategy in TTD
17:02:46 <Samu> yes, the problem here is that you can buy AIs in multiplayer
17:02:59 <Alberth> how is that a problem?
17:03:14 <Samu> should only buy up to 75%
17:03:33 <andythenorth> purpose of shares is to buy the company
17:04:07 <Samu> treat the AI, like they're HU
17:04:34 <Alberth> any sane human will not buy an AI
17:04:41 <Alberth> as they perform worse
17:05:59 <Samu> I bought an AI by mistake, thinking it would cap ay 75% t.t
17:14:38 <Samu> if (!c->is_ai || c->is_ai && _networking) return cost; // We can not buy out a real company (temporarily). TODO: well, enable it obviously.
17:14:45 <Samu> let's see if this is enough
17:15:48 <peter1138> But is your fast forward speed limited?
17:20:49 <Alberth> unlimited ff speed would much simpler to implement :p
17:23:21 <Samu> this works, but the button doesn't gray out, must fix gui
17:30:20 <Alberth> comment suggests the problem is the other way around
17:33:37 <Samu> this->SetWidgetDisabledState(WID_C_BUY_SHARE, GetAmountOwnedBy(c, INVALID_OWNER) == 0 || /* Only 25% left to buy. If the company is human, disable buying it up.. TODO issues! */
17:34:19 <Alberth> imagine what you have to do for taking over another human company
17:35:18 <Alberth> what should happen to the other player?
17:35:30 <andythenorth> ‘you are no longer playing'
17:35:36 <Samu> move to spectator, i guess
17:35:45 <Samu> or move to the new company
17:36:12 <andythenorth> the more interesting play is to add them to the other company
17:36:30 <andythenorth> then they have to co-operate (or not) with the hostile takeover player
17:36:45 <Samu> add another game setting then :p
17:37:07 <andythenorth> why is infrastructure sharing?
17:37:09 <Alberth> I am quite sure the player taking over my company will see a sudden drop in funds :p
17:38:00 <Samu> a setting which decides what to do when a company buys another, per company
17:38:16 <Alberth> world is shared by definition, I guess
17:38:49 <Samu> or just a server setting
17:39:03 <Samu> global variable , damn, i'm messing up
17:40:27 <Samu> Company 1 buys Company 2
17:40:41 <Samu> Company 1 has set that it allows company 2 to join company 1
17:41:06 <Samu> Company 2 has set that it allows joining other company when being taken over
17:43:08 <Samu> /* Only 25% left to buy. If the company is human or AI in multiplayer, disable buying it up.. TODO issues! */ (GetAmountOwnedBy(c, INVALID_OWNER) == 1 && (!c->is_ai || c->is_ai && _networking)) ||
17:44:58 <Wolf01> Buying human companies is like merging them, the taken over has the same power of the buyer... I'm for moving the human in spectators, or open a UI to let him decide if wants to be moved in spectators or start a new company
17:46:43 <Milek7> but maybe player/ai don't want to sell company
17:47:02 <Milek7> shares shouldn't be first manually emitted by company?
17:47:16 <Wolf01> Another UI to tell the player "player x wants to take over your company, do you want?"
17:47:31 <Wolf01> Yup, but that will be too much realistic
17:48:23 <Samu> i'd have it previously set in the company properties
17:48:44 <Samu> similar to how autorenew is done, per company, not per player
17:52:04 <Samu> if (!c->is_ai || c->is_ai && _networking) return cost; // We can not buy out a real or AI company in multiplayer (temporarily). TODO: well, enable it obviously.
17:52:29 <Samu> that "(temporarily)" has been how many years?
17:56:37 <Alberth> it's temporarily, until it's fixed
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18:01:39 <andythenorth> all code is temporary
18:01:55 <andythenorth> the idea that people might still play FIRS in 250 years time would be worse
18:03:28 <supermop> andythenorth: that seems increasingly likely to me
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18:03:56 <supermop> and in 250 years we will still be arguing over this or that change to the map array
18:04:23 <kanios666> im looking for a grf file newtown_415.grf
18:04:28 <Alberth> in 250 years, computers will probably decide that on their own
18:04:29 <kanios666> maybe someone have it
18:04:48 <Alberth> do you have an author?
18:04:57 <kanios666> i need it to north england map
18:06:31 <kanios666> there isnt info about author
18:08:27 <kanios666> i play on vpn with my cousin on version 1.2.0
18:09:25 <kanios666> he choose that version
18:09:40 <andythenorth> he likes the past :)
18:09:41 <Alberth> seems somewhat very old :)
18:11:44 <kanios666> page cannot be found :(
18:13:22 <Alberth> you could try contacting the owner of the site, orudge
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18:15:10 <Alberth> or, try to find another scenario or a heightmap of northern england
18:15:19 <Alberth> likely several such maps exist
18:16:40 <Alberth> heightmap doesn't have towns and roads though
18:16:55 <Alberth> or at least none that exist in reality
18:17:32 <Alberth> do you know who created the scenario, you could try asking him as well
18:17:49 <Alberth> maybe he disappeared though
18:26:32 <Wolf01> There is no escape from destiny
18:41:14 <Alberth> 'destiny' is underspecified, you never know whether you suceeded
18:42:45 <Wolf01> ... just like in my dream...
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19:34:54 <peter1138> Do you get funds when someone buys your shares?
19:35:17 <peter1138> Hmm, I can't even remember how they work. I suspect badly.
19:42:13 <Alberth> if you sell them after the company value raised, you get more money
19:42:44 <Alberth> them=shares of another company
19:42:47 <Eddi|zuHause> shares are pointless and should be removed from the game
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19:44:55 <Eddi|zuHause> anyway, i vaguely remember once trying that out, and it didn't seem to work
19:45:21 <Eddi|zuHause> meaning buying some company's shares and then checking their bank balance whether it changed
19:45:48 <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r27818 trunk/src/lang/greek.txt (2017-03-22 19:45:40 +0100 )
19:45:50 <DorpsGek> greek: 36 changes by kyrm
19:46:11 <Eddi|zuHause> also, companies valued at 2$ most of the time makes it useless even if it did work
19:47:28 <Alkel_U3> that's really unfair considering the starting capital is a loan and not money from investors. I like how RRT series do it but that's perhaps too complex to be introduced into TT
19:47:31 <andythenorth> given how easy it is to print money with pax, I’m not going to bother buying shares as a cash generation strategy :P
19:49:32 <supermop> investor capital is sort of like a loan anyway
19:51:22 <Eddi|zuHause> Alkel_U3: i always wished i could play RRT with shares disabled
19:52:21 <Eddi|zuHause> anyway, there have been many suggestions of an improved share system, maybe even a few patches
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20:26:40 <Samu> crap, i made a server that was supposedly hard for trains
20:26:49 <Samu> but they build 2 engines
20:27:18 <Samu> really hate this feature
20:29:20 <Samu> i wanted players to plan their route better
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20:31:17 <andythenorth> can’t beat the game :)
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20:39:49 <Samu> gonna try remove this feature in some patch, wondering if it's easy or not
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22:55:44 <Eddi|zuHause> if you can't beat them, make a training montage and try to beat them again towards the end of the movie
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23:55:08 <peter1138> oh that's better, i can see again
23:57:22 <peter1138> glasses were a bit muddy from mountain biking :p
23:59:24 <Samu> I'm planning yet another game setting that disallows multi-engines on a single train
23:59:48 <Samu> but i see a lot of newgrf code callback stuff in the way
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