IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2017-02-19
⏴ go to previous day
00:22:44 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 has joined #openttd
00:39:37 *** Supercheese has joined #openttd
00:42:29 *** Biolunar has joined #openttd
00:43:47 *** markasoftware has joined #openttd
00:59:59 *** supermop_home has joined #openttd
01:05:33 *** sim-al2 has joined #openttd
01:25:10 *** supermop has joined #openttd
01:29:34 *** FLHerne has joined #openttd
03:45:14 *** supermop has joined #openttd
03:55:29 <supermop> is downloading stuff from the forums very slow for anyone else lately?
04:21:16 *** markasoftware has joined #openttd
04:33:37 *** Biolunar_ has joined #openttd
05:08:33 *** sim-al2 is now known as Guest1089
05:08:34 *** sim-al2 has joined #openttd
06:25:56 *** markasoftware has joined #openttd
06:39:14 <snadge> damn my highlight went off but my scrollback doesn't go back that far :P
06:42:04 <snadge> ahh okay, extmidi driver.. you don't really need it, it seems.. it respects the default
07:57:26 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd
08:44:19 *** snadge_ has joined #openttd
08:45:13 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd
09:05:05 *** Arveen|Work is now known as Arveen|Home
09:07:54 *** Progman has joined #openttd
09:44:45 *** florian_ has joined #openttd
09:45:07 <florian_> Hello i have a problem i became not a Validation Code to my Email
09:47:16 <florian_> register to openttd Website
09:48:18 <florian_> have it is nothing :(
09:52:05 <andythenorth> I just tried a password reset on my account, I didn’t receive mail yet
09:52:16 <andythenorth> might be email isn’t delivering
09:54:19 <florian_> yes... hmm no admin online?
09:58:32 <andythenorth> bit early to ask them
10:51:42 *** ZirconiumX has joined #openttd
10:53:54 <TrueBrain-Bot> turns out the system didn't deliver any email since early January 😄
10:54:00 <TrueBrain-Bot> it "should" work now (tm)
10:55:55 <andythenorth> is there a delivery queue of old ones? o_O
10:57:41 <andythenorth> I just requested a password reset, got that
10:57:55 <andythenorth> did 2 earlier this morning (just to test), they’re not delivered
10:58:35 <TrueBrain-Bot> they will never be delivered
10:58:40 <TrueBrain-Bot> exim was not running, so no queue was created
11:00:36 <TrueBrain-Bot> this part of the website is running on such old machine .. its horrible 😛
11:01:00 <andythenorth> is time for rebuild? o_O
11:01:38 *** Alberth has joined #openttd
11:01:38 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Alberth
11:05:45 <TrueBrain-Bot> well, that time came and passed like 5 years ago 😄
11:09:50 <andythenorth> kill it with fire :)
11:13:23 <TrueBrain-Bot> then people also complain 😛
11:22:10 *** Wormnest has joined #openttd
11:45:06 *** FLHerne has joined #openttd
11:50:01 *** andythenorth is now known as Guest1099
11:50:11 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd
12:05:52 *** Maraxus has joined #openttd
12:45:38 *** supermop has joined #openttd
13:02:19 *** frosch123 has joined #openttd
13:02:25 *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd
13:06:34 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai
13:12:46 *** andythenorth is now known as Guest1102
13:12:47 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd
13:19:49 * andythenorth wants fake scandinavian town names
13:20:07 <andythenorth> real town names I find weird
13:21:32 <frosch123> it's ok, if the towns are small enough to not know them
13:23:34 <andythenorth> I don’t know any Finnish towns :)
13:24:55 <frosch123> i think ln mentioned some town that is not helsinki somewhen
13:26:41 <andythenorth> definitely better
13:27:02 <Alberth> someone wants his pony :D
13:27:54 <Alberth> the problem with town names in my experience is that their geographic location is completely messed up
13:28:08 <Alberth> so they confuse more than help
13:28:46 <Alberth> I am working on the pony :)
13:28:55 <frosch123> maybe your geography skills are too high :)
13:30:38 <Alberth> the town names are too familiar :p
13:31:05 * andythenorth so bored of making everything TL6 by default
13:31:09 <andythenorth> what else can I do?
13:31:39 <Alberth> increase freight multiplier
13:32:08 <andythenorth> not use Iron Horse brit roster? o_O
13:32:20 <andythenorth> winning idea imho
13:32:42 <Alberth> if that counts as "else", sure
13:34:03 <andythenorth> maybe I try Finnish train set
13:38:32 *** Furryhead has joined #openttd
13:40:02 *** Furryhead has left #openttd
14:08:57 *** matt11235 has joined #openttd
14:29:35 *** maciozo has joined #openttd
14:45:57 *** supermop_home has joined #openttd
14:50:48 <supermop_home> hmm no posts on docklands thread
14:54:00 <supermop_home> I guess I should have a development thread to take suggestions and reports
14:54:10 <andythenorth> it might just look ‘done'
14:54:19 <andythenorth> I get barely any comments on Road Hog or CHIPS
14:54:27 <supermop_home> but I don't know whats left to do other than improve level crossings
14:54:50 <andythenorth> ‘the stuning silence of a successful release'
14:55:48 <supermop_home> there do seem to be a few old diesel passenger trams
14:56:04 <supermop_home> and handulf of tiny yard switchers
14:56:30 *** gelignite has joined #openttd
14:56:46 <andythenorth> prototype for everything :)
14:56:59 <andythenorth> decide what you want in game, you can find it later on google
14:57:01 <supermop_home> and a few modern LR dmu
14:57:06 <andythenorth> we need an equivalent term to retcon
14:57:35 <supermop_home> I want one 20th C thing that runs on tramway without wires
14:58:00 <andythenorth> have a look at Isle of Man
14:58:36 <supermop_home> i think my toothbrush has more HP than that
14:59:48 <supermop_home> heqs steam trams look too daunting to convert from nfo for me atm
15:01:00 *** supermop_home has joined #openttd
15:02:14 <supermop_home> accidentally posted link to cane tram instead of ratt dl
15:04:25 *** sim-al2 has joined #openttd
15:04:32 <andythenorth> QLD sugar trams?
15:04:45 <andythenorth> India: Darjeeling - Himalya?
15:04:49 <supermop_home> going to queens for a beer stay cation in a few hours so might not get much done on this this wknd anyway
15:04:50 <andythenorth> Romania - forest railways?
15:07:19 <andythenorth> I have loads saved for HEQS and RH
15:07:32 <V453000> supermop_home: glorious
15:07:41 <andythenorth> supermop: what exactly are you looking for?
15:08:04 <supermop_home> i wonder when cat. started to supplant trolley wire for non-street lines
15:09:05 <supermop_home> i think its actually useful distinction for nrt, seeing as people want speed limits
15:09:23 *** Furryhead has joined #openttd
15:09:32 <supermop_home> i'vee seen trams in melb do about 50mph on trolley wire
15:09:46 <supermop_home> but those are standard gauge trams
15:09:51 *** Furryhead has left #openttd
15:09:55 *** Furryhead has joined #openttd
15:10:06 <supermop_home> FLHerne yeah look good
15:10:27 <supermop_home> just one diesel from 1930 - forever would be fine
15:11:06 <FLHerne> supermop_home: Oh, you need NG ?
15:12:11 <supermop_home> FLHerne i don't need anything, but openttd trams are pretty narrow on space
15:13:16 <FLHerne> Eh, 04s should look fine then
15:13:58 <supermop_home> dockland yards would just look nicer if rh or heqs had diesel switchers in later years
15:14:53 <supermop_home> other idea: regular tram set but depot refit to have tiny switcher luging tram across unpowered segments
15:15:56 <supermop_home> FLHerne I'm not sure that I am going to draw and code these yet, if I can trick andy into adding them to RH
15:17:27 <andythenorth> I considered diesel trams in post 1940 RH
15:18:07 *** FLHerne has joined #openttd
15:19:49 <supermop_home> trolley trucks?
15:20:26 <andythenorth> plausible futurism
15:20:37 <andythenorth> I am avoiding working on RH at the moment :)
15:20:59 <andythenorth> just found this v
15:21:50 <supermop_home> only saw that word 2 days ago
15:22:32 <andythenorth> some kind of feldspar?
15:23:21 <supermop_home> I guess it's worth mining for something
15:23:29 <andythenorth> doesn’t do much, just gravel, statues, some tiles
15:23:35 <andythenorth> basic construction uses
15:23:46 <supermop_home> ddmt straight from the mine?
15:24:26 <supermop_home> oh yeah a tile I was speccing for a client had that as an option
15:30:55 *** Progman has joined #openttd
15:44:03 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai
16:03:54 <supermop_home> forgot how expensive these 2cc locomotives are
16:22:29 *** Furryhead has joined #openttd
16:22:56 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai
16:47:05 *** Ethereal_Whisper has joined #openttd
16:49:28 <frosch123> CARGO_SHORT instead of CARGO_TINY?
16:49:54 <frosch123> but 0000-03FF with CARGO_TINY but without "waiting" is weird
16:50:21 <frosch123> how do you add the ", not accepting"?
16:50:27 <frosch123> or is that only an example?
16:50:58 *** Ethereal_Shiver has quit IRC
16:55:22 <supermop_home> so i am playing a quick game
16:55:49 <supermop_home> but then I noticed there are too many dead end valleys and factories on top of mountains
16:56:13 <supermop_home> so now I'm spending more time correcting the landscape than playing in SE
16:57:15 <Alberth> frosch123: those are the strings in the language file. I think it needs a smart ordering to get the ", not accepting" easily
16:58:51 <Alberth> CARGO_SHORT is much better indeed
16:59:42 <Alberth> ie foo->stockpiled and foo->stockpiled + 1
16:59:53 <frosch123> i am not sure, but i recall there explicitly being no space before the RAW_STRING
17:00:23 <Alberth> there wasn't in the lang file indeed
17:04:36 <Alberth> fixed table of stringID entries would work too
17:06:09 *** Furryhead has left #openttd
17:06:48 <frosch123> hmm, working with 3 different vcs gets confusing somewhen
17:07:16 <frosch123> svn s<backspace><backspace><backspace><backspace><backspace>gi<backspace><backspace>hg st
17:10:26 <Alberth> I am mostly confused between hg and git :)
17:10:36 <Alberth> for some reason, git is easier to type
17:10:59 <frosch123> luckily widelands has an update script, so i do not have to deal with bzr directly :p
17:11:28 <Alberth> I don't do much svn any more, so that's one less :)
17:12:08 <Alberth> :o bzr, I played with that early, around 2007/2008
17:12:48 <Alberth> needed one for openttd, svn failed, git looked too complicated, so I picked bzr at random first
17:17:01 *** Ethereal_Whisper has quit IRC
17:22:55 * andythenorth had a brief adventure with bzr, after svn
17:23:54 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: make a unified "vcs" script that detects which .xyz subdirectory is present
17:24:06 <Eddi|zuHause> and maps the commands appropriately
17:29:27 <frosch123> would it support "git qseries"?
17:45:33 <frosch123> when did we remove dynamic strings from tab 31? :p
17:48:31 <frosch123> apparently noai was started before that then, otherwise it would not have dead code refering to them
17:51:38 <Alberth> the noai competition was in spring 2008 iirc
17:52:26 <Alberth> started visiting #openttd end of 2007, and became dev spring 2009
17:52:52 <frosch123> indeed, wiki page was created march 2007
17:53:00 <frosch123> i thought everything was one year later
17:53:41 <Alberth> you lost a whole year! :p
17:54:15 *** Progman_ has joined #openttd
17:57:56 *** Progman_ is now known as Progman
18:20:32 <andythenorth> so I’m thinking of expanding FIRS docs....
18:20:42 <andythenorth> a bit more gameplay guide / explanation
18:20:51 <andythenorth> good idea? Or leave it to people to do in OpenTTD wiki?
18:24:44 <frosch123> not sure how useful such pages are. people who can read can also figure it out themself
18:29:52 <andythenorth> my 7 year old says FIRS ‘makes his head twizzle'
18:30:06 <supermop_home> mission accomplished?
18:30:38 <andythenorth> I was explaining how port-type industries worked, and wondered if that should be in the guide :)
18:34:14 <andythenorth> for those who do read
18:41:44 <andythenorth> eh instead of ‘Industry’ substring in the titles, I could use ‘Port-type Industry’, ‘Primary Industry’ etc
18:42:00 <andythenorth> confusing detail?
18:42:05 <Alberth> not sure what you want to say about an industry
18:42:44 <andythenorth> I can’t imagine I’d ever sit and read the docs to learn about each industry
18:42:49 * andythenorth isn’t made that way
18:43:27 <Alberth> economies, I can see the value. You can say what the main chain is, or how to go about building a transport system, which ones first, etc
18:43:37 <andythenorth> not even sure I like the ‘Ratios’ details in the industries page
18:44:02 <Alberth> for industries, the various pictures you dug up would be nic
18:44:20 <Alberth> gives them a realistic flavour
18:44:52 <Alberth> I assume ratios are copied from the industry window? would be fine, as reference
18:45:38 <andythenorth> because they’re removed from industry, I moved them into docs as some sugar for players who really have to know that stuff
18:45:45 <andythenorth> industry window *
18:45:48 <Alberth> but otherwise, industries aren't that interesting
18:46:06 <andythenorth> that page is mostly to show pictures
18:46:31 <andythenorth> cargos page is even less interesting, now that we have cargo flow .dot diagrams
18:46:35 <Alberth> ah, right, numbers for the "need to know every fricking detail" people :)
18:46:40 <andythenorth> yeah those people
18:47:46 <Alberth> for cargoes, links to definitions or uses, eg wikipedia or so
18:51:41 <andythenorth> maybe people could reverse engineer the ratios? o_O
18:51:57 <andythenorth> by precisely delivering 100t / month of each cargo to see effect
18:57:39 <andythenorth> nah, ratios don’t need to be in docs
18:59:58 <Alberth> they're in the source already :p
19:04:53 <frosch123> we are no tycoons, we are anti-capitalists, who provide transport services for the greater good
19:05:52 <frosch123> for google mail? unlikely
19:06:36 <BobbyG> so if we have issues with some players .. where is the right place to get help ?
19:06:49 <Alberth> server owner, usually
19:08:14 <BobbyG> well i called for admins several times ... but no response ... Seems that we have to learn to live with abusive players .. nevermind ... its just a game
19:10:08 <Alberth> or find a better server
19:10:16 <frosch123> what your server has no 24/7 support? you should definitely request a refund
19:21:16 *** Wormnest has joined #openttd
19:26:13 *** ZirconiumX has joined #openttd
19:40:52 <andythenorth> "FIRS is a marathon not a sprint”
19:42:12 <supermop_home> temperate basic/temperate/oceanic 2cc trains/swedish houses/ogfx+rvs/Vietnamese names
19:42:58 <supermop_home> D. Allan and Co. doesn't really sound that Vietnamese
19:43:23 <supermop_home> though his aviator sunglasses seem appropriate
19:43:33 <supermop_home> except it's 1935
19:50:25 *** markasoftware has joined #openttd
19:56:13 <frosch123> the hardest was to add two dozen of newgrf to a testgame to get the string demand over 6k
19:56:27 <frosch123> i am still puzzled how people manage to do that in a regular game
19:58:14 <andythenorth> do you need me to test it?
19:58:48 <frosch123> it does not increase any limits per newgrf
19:58:51 <frosch123> only the total amount
19:59:15 <frosch123> for the per-grf limit i have to look into some newgrf spec details
20:12:44 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd
20:14:48 <Alberth> didn't see anything weird
20:15:50 <Alberth> nah, you need xussr and was, those eat loads of strings :)
21:08:54 *** Maraxus has joined #openttd
21:12:56 <_dp_> does it increase amount of strings for gs too?
21:15:22 <frosch123> don't say you reached the 2k limit :p
21:17:37 <_dp_> not quite, but I'm using them to save string arguments slots, so there is no such thing as too many strings :p
21:18:06 <_dp_> have about 500 for % from 0 to 100 in 4 colors for example
21:21:57 <_dp_> and were thinking of smth even crazier like doing strings for all color combinations
21:22:39 *** Speedy` has joined #openttd
21:22:52 *** Speedy` is now known as Speedy
21:42:36 <Eddi|zuHause> isn't that what string parameters are for?
21:42:55 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: string parameters are limited to like 20
21:43:05 <frosch123> which is not enough for a 32x10 spreadsheet
21:43:11 <frosch123> which would need 320 parameters
21:43:37 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: next patch, turn the text stack into an actual stack (with like a "push" operation and no silly limits)
21:43:54 <frosch123> the limit here is the command packet
21:44:10 <frosch123> which was not designed for file transfer
21:44:28 *** sim-al2 has joined #openttd
21:44:46 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: a real stack would be troublesome for translations, which reorder parameters
21:46:56 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd
21:56:29 <_dp_> having separate string for each line in town window would solve it too
21:56:47 <_dp_> that's pretty much the only place right now that needs more than 20 parameters
21:59:37 <_dp_> and it's not like I'm trying to show a spreadsheet there, just one cb requirements takes at 3-4 parameters normally (name, delivered, required, stored)
21:59:51 <_dp_> also 1-2 more if you want colored numbers
22:00:07 <_dp_> with 20 limit it's like 4 types of cargo max
22:04:04 <frosch123> i think some gs once wanted to display stats for all cargos and all companies in the town gui
22:04:09 <frosch123> so a 32x15 spreadsheet :)
22:04:29 <frosch123> no idea how many stats per cell
22:07:10 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd
22:07:40 <frosch123> anyway, i guess essentially we need a method to attach a story book page to a town or industry window
22:08:04 <andythenorth> then $someone will want to provide production history for an industry :)
22:08:14 <andythenorth> what a boring use of a story :)
22:08:49 <frosch123> maximum of 64k story page elements though :p
22:09:45 <andythenorth> can story pages have hrefs? :P
22:09:55 * andythenorth considers moving docs into the game
22:10:03 <_dp_> hm, mb not industry but town growing history would be quite useful xD
22:10:08 <andythenorth> the original font is soooo readable for large blocks of text :P
22:10:25 <frosch123> story pages have references for stuff to scroll to
22:11:15 <frosch123> we have no chart element yet for the storybook page
22:11:23 <frosch123> but maybe html5 would work
22:11:52 <_dp_> just allow monospace font there :p
22:12:05 <andythenorth> are there off-the-shelf rendering engines we could use? :P
22:12:38 <frosch123> andythenorth: so far we run pretty bad with icu :p
22:12:53 <frosch123> harfbuzz patch is as needed as sdl2 :)
22:13:18 <Eddi|zuHause> wtf is a harfbuzz?
22:13:48 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: the icu layout replacement
22:13:58 <andythenorth> run phantomjs as an additional app, and load html5 elements as pngs from it :P
22:14:12 <frosch123> we could also maybe link factorio
22:14:20 <frosch123> factorio can play video and audio
22:14:34 <frosch123> so, maybe factorios factories should be embedded into industries
22:14:54 <andythenorth> then I could stop worrying about production code
22:14:58 <andythenorth> other people could do it
22:15:14 <andythenorth> factories on one level, transport on the other
22:15:17 <andythenorth> virtual currency
22:15:29 <andythenorth> we’ll all be rich
22:23:25 <andythenorth> well I liked the idea :P
22:24:41 <andythenorth> orudge: still christmas on the forums? o_O
22:24:48 <andythenorth> my smileys have hats
22:25:22 <Eddi|zuHause> it was really cold until a few days ago
22:44:06 <Wolf01> I don't know what's the point on a game whihc plays itself :S
22:46:05 <planetmaker> you play it by playing with the rules of self-playing ;)
22:48:25 <Wolf01> Just play a video on youtube
22:48:25 <Eddi|zuHause> Wolf01: surely the best moments in AI development are the moments right before it decides to go skynet on everybody
23:57:01 *** chomwitt has joined #openttd
continue to next day ⏵
